Hi folks,

I have posted two photos of two young apple trees he

http://tinyurl.com/qcdu8ar

My questions are stated there too:
1) Can I prune the one in the top phot to encourage it to grow upwards
rather than outwards? If so, How much should I remove from the side
branches? (The tree is about 2m tall and was planted about a year ago.)

2) What are the brown patches on the tree in the second photo? Should I
take remedial action, and if so, what?

Many thanks!

Al

On 23/06/2015 11:30, AL_n wrote: Hi folks,

I have posted two photos of two young apple trees he

http://tinyurl.com/qcdu8ar

My questions are stated there too:
1) Can I prune the one in the top phot to encourage it to grow upwards
rather than outwards? If so, How much should I remove from the side
branches? (The tree is about 2m tall and was planted about a year ago.)

2) What are the brown patches on the tree in the second photo? Should I
take remedial action, and if so, what?

Many thanks!

Al


Hi Alan,

re Q1: You appear to have an apple on very dwarfing rootstock, so
you're never going to have a truly tall tree, so I hope that's not the
plan. If you want to shape the tree, the best thing you can do at the
moment is to accept the strong and (more-or-less) central stem as your
leader (the main trunk, as it were). Without piercing the rootstock,
put in a tall stake in line with that leader, then tie in the stem to
help straighten it up. Don't forget the ties are there - I've seen many
trees critically damaged because a tie wasn't loosened in time!
You may also, if you wish, trim back the lower side branches *but do not
remove them*; just tip them back a little. If you know the varietal
name of your apple, then check whether it is tip or spur bearing, as
this will inform the way you prune it forever. If you cut a tip-bearing
tree back too hard, you will remove all the fruiting wood for that year,
so it's quite important. Spur-bearers are easier to prune and the
chances are this is what you have. Worth checking though.

re Q2: I'm not sure what the lesions are on your apple leaves, but the
tree does look generally healthy, so I wouldn't worry too much. Just
keep an eye on it. In autumn, all the leaves will fall anyway so, if you
have any doubts about disease or pests then make sure you remove all the
fallen leaves promptly to prevent reinfection of the tree.
It may just be that your tree is stressed with the droughty weather
we're (*I'm*!) having, so give it plenty of water.
I confess I'm frantically busy at the moment, but will try and learn
what that leaf problem is - not least because I have a crab apple which
may suffer similar problems in the future.

It would help your tree hugely if you could clear the grass away from
the base of the tree. A 3ft/1mtr circle of clear ground around the base
of the trunk is recommended. The grass and weeds are currently
competing for water and food, so are substantially adding to the stress
of your tree.

Hope this helps.
--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

Spider wrote in news:cv7j85Ft7q2U1
@mid.individual.net:


Hi Alan,

re Q1: You appear to have an apple on very dwarfing rootstock, so
you're never going to have a truly tall tree, so I hope that's not the
plan. If you want to shape the tree, the best thing you can do at the
moment is to accept the strong and (more-or-less) central stem as your
leader (the main trunk, as it were). Without piercing the rootstock,
put in a tall stake in line with that leader, then tie in the stem to
help straighten it up. Don't forget the ties are there - I've seen
many
trees critically damaged because a tie wasn't loosened in time!
You may also, if you wish, trim back the lower side branches *but do
not
remove them*; just tip them back a little. If you know the varietal
name of your apple, then check whether it is tip or spur bearing, as
this will inform the way you prune it forever. If you cut a tip-
bearing
tree back too hard, you will remove all the fruiting wood for that
year,
so it's quite important. Spur-bearers are easier to prune and the
chances are this is what you have. Worth checking though.

re Q2: I'm not sure what the lesions are on your apple leaves, but the
tree does look generally healthy, so I wouldn't worry too much. Just
keep an eye on it. In autumn, all the leaves will fall anyway so, if
you
have any doubts about disease or pests then make sure you remove all
the
fallen leaves promptly to prevent reinfection of the tree.
It may just be that your tree is stressed with the droughty weather
we're (*I'm*!) having, so give it plenty of water.

I confess I'm frantically busy at the moment, but will try and learn
what that leaf problem is - not least because I have a crab apple which
may suffer similar problems in the future.

It would help your tree hugely if you could clear the grass away from
the base of the tree. A 3ft/1mtr circle of clear ground around the base
of the trunk is recommended. The grass and weeds are currently
competing for water and food, so are substantially adding to the stress
of your tree.

Hope this helps.
--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay


Spider, my dear! Nice to know you are still around! (You've given me some
good advice in the past! In the absence of a reply to my post (until now)
I went ahead and used my own jusdgement and pruned off the lower branches
(completely). Now I read your post which advises otherwise! I'm not
concerned with fruit this year, I just want to encourage the tree to grow
taller rather than wide. Unfortunately, I seem to have lost the original
packaging. The sapling was from Asda. I do recall it's an orange cox
pippin. I think you are probably right that it is a dwarf, but if I can
get it to grow four metres tall, that's all I need. It seems to grow
about 6" to a foot each year so far. I need it for shade rather than for
fruit. I'm hoping that having removed the lower branches, all the
growing-power coming from the roots will be diverted into the leader.
(Not sure if that's how it works, but that's what I was banking on!)

Many thanks for your other suggestions. You are very helpful as always.

-Al (also gardening on heavy clay, but not in S.E. London any more...)!

On 28/06/2015 21:01, AL_n wrote:
Spider wrote in news:cv7j85Ft7q2U1
@mid.individual.net:


Hi Alan,

re Q1: You appear to have an apple on very dwarfing rootstock, so
you're never going to have a truly tall tree, so I hope that's not the
plan. If you want to shape the tree, the best thing you can do at the
moment is to accept the strong and (more-or-less) central stem as your
leader (the main trunk, as it were). Without piercing the rootstock,
put in a tall stake in line with that leader, then tie in the stem to
help straighten it up. Don't forget the ties are there - I've seen
many
trees critically damaged because a tie wasn't loosened in time!
You may also, if you wish, trim back the lower side branches *but do
not
remove them*; just tip them back a little. If you know the varietal
name of your apple, then check whether it is tip or spur bearing, as
this will inform the way you prune it forever. If you cut a tip-
bearing
tree back too hard, you will remove all the fruiting wood for that
year,
so it's quite important. Spur-bearers are easier to prune and the
chances are this is what you have. Worth checking though.

re Q2: I'm not sure what the lesions are on your apple leaves, but the
tree does look generally healthy, so I wouldn't worry too much. Just
keep an eye on it. In autumn, all the leaves will fall anyway so, if
you
have any doubts about disease or pests then make sure you remove all
the
fallen leaves promptly to prevent reinfection of the tree.
It may just be that your tree is stressed with the droughty weather
we're (*I'm*!) having, so give it plenty of water.

I confess I'm frantically busy at the moment, but will try and learn
what that leaf problem is - not least because I have a crab apple which
may suffer similar problems in the future.

It would help your tree hugely if you could clear the grass away from
the base of the tree. A 3ft/1mtr circle of clear ground around the base
of the trunk is recommended. The grass and weeds are currently
competing for water and food, so are substantially adding to the stress
of your tree.

Hope this helps.
--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay


Spider, my dear! Nice to know you are still around! (You've given me some
good advice in the past! In the absence of a reply to my post (until now)
I went ahead and used my own jusdgement and pruned off the lower branches
(completely). Now I read your post which advises otherwise! I'm not
concerned with fruit this year, I just want to encourage the tree to grow
taller rather than wide. Unfortunately, I seem to have lost the original
packaging. The sapling was from Asda. I do recall it's an orange cox
pippin. I think you are probably right that it is a dwarf, but if I can
get it to grow four metres tall, that's all I need. It seems to grow
about 6" to a foot each year so far. I need it for shade rather than for
fruit. I'm hoping that having removed the lower branches, all the
growing-power coming from the roots will be diverted into the leader.
(Not sure if that's how it works, but that's what I was banking on!)

Many thanks for your other suggestions. You are very helpful as always.

-Al (also gardening on heavy clay, but not in S.E. London any more...)!

If you are wanting an apple tree that's 12 to 13 ft tall then I'd start
again and get a tree from a reputable grower this Autumn and take his
advice on which rootstock you should have.
I think you could still be waiting for your present tree to make that
height in 10 years time.

David Hill wrote in news:cvb7a9Frbt2U1
@mid.individual.net:

If you are wanting an apple tree that's 12 to 13 ft tall then I'd start
again and get a tree from a reputable grower this Autumn and take his
advice on which rootstock you should have.
I think you could still be waiting for your present tree to make that
height in 10 years time.

Yes - that had occurred to me. The tree could also be in a slightly
different position, so getting a new tree would seem a sensible option.
I've also heard that orange cox pippins can be disease-prone.

Why did you suggest Autumn for buying a nw tree in particular?

Al

On 29/06/2015 12:06, AL_n wrote:
David Hill wrote in news:cvb7a9Frbt2U1
@mid.individual.net:

If you are wanting an apple tree that's 12 to 13 ft tall then I'd start
again and get a tree from a reputable grower this Autumn and take his
advice on which rootstock you should have.
I think you could still be waiting for your present tree to make that
height in 10 years time.

Yes - that had occurred to me. The tree could also be in a slightly
different position, so getting a new tree would seem a sensible option.
I've also heard that orange cox pippins can be disease-prone.

Why did you suggest Autumn for buying a nw tree in particular?

Al

It's actually Cox's Orange Pippin
See
http://www.keepers-nursery.co.uk/cox...uit-trees.aspx
They have a chart showing the height with different rootstock.
You will have to have at least one other apple tree as a pollinator if
you chose Cox.
Buying in the winter you get a dormant tree that is sent bare rooted or
root wrapped, You will get a top grade tree which will make new roots
after planting before it starts to grow new leaves.
Brows their web site, it has plenty of good info and advice.
David @ a sunny side of Swansea Bay.

On 28/06/2015 21:01, AL_n wrote:
Spider wrote in news:cv7j85Ft7q2U1
@mid.individual.net:


Hi Alan,

re Q1: You appear to have an apple on very dwarfing rootstock, so
you're never going to have a truly tall tree, so I hope that's not the
plan. If you want to shape the tree, the best thing you can do at the
moment is to accept the strong and (more-or-less) central stem as your
leader (the main trunk, as it were). Without piercing the rootstock,
put in a tall stake in line with that leader, then tie in the stem to
help straighten it up. Don't forget the ties are there - I've seen
many
trees critically damaged because a tie wasn't loosened in time!
You may also, if you wish, trim back the lower side branches *but do
not
remove them*; just tip them back a little. If you know the varietal
name of your apple, then check whether it is tip or spur bearing, as
this will inform the way you prune it forever. If you cut a tip-
bearing
tree back too hard, you will remove all the fruiting wood for that
year,
so it's quite important. Spur-bearers are easier to prune and the
chances are this is what you have. Worth checking though.

re Q2: I'm not sure what the lesions are on your apple leaves, but the
tree does look generally healthy, so I wouldn't worry too much. Just
keep an eye on it. In autumn, all the leaves will fall anyway so, if
you
have any doubts about disease or pests then make sure you remove all
the
fallen leaves promptly to prevent reinfection of the tree.
It may just be that your tree is stressed with the droughty weather
we're (*I'm*!) having, so give it plenty of water.

I confess I'm frantically busy at the moment, but will try and learn
what that leaf problem is - not least because I have a crab apple which
may suffer similar problems in the future.

It would help your tree hugely if you could clear the grass away from
the base of the tree. A 3ft/1mtr circle of clear ground around the base
of the trunk is recommended. The grass and weeds are currently
competing for water and food, so are substantially adding to the stress
of your tree.

Hope this helps.
--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay


Spider, my dear! Nice to know you are still around! (You've given me some
good advice in the past! In the absence of a reply to my post (until now)
I went ahead and used my own jusdgement and pruned off the lower branches
(completely). Now I read your post which advises otherwise! I'm not
concerned with fruit this year, I just want to encourage the tree to grow
taller rather than wide. Unfortunately, I seem to have lost the original
packaging. The sapling was from Asda. I do recall it's an orange cox
pippin. I think you are probably right that it is a dwarf, but if I can
get it to grow four metres tall, that's all I need. It seems to grow
about 6" to a foot each year so far. I need it for shade rather than for
fruit. I'm hoping that having removed the lower branches, all the
growing-power coming from the roots will be diverted into the leader.
(Not sure if that's how it works, but that's what I was banking on!)

Many thanks for your other suggestions. You are very helpful as always.

-Al (also gardening on heavy clay, but not in S.E. London any more...)!



Hi Alan,
What a lovely warm greeting and kind remarks, thank you! I must crawl
out of my web more often:~).

It's a pity you lopped the side branches off, but not the end of the
world. Lower branches (whether wanted or not) help to build up the
girth of the tree, which is desireable, especially if you're hoping to
increase the height. The leaves thereon help to feed the tree, of
course. Nevermind, you can hardly glue them back on!

I've read your exchange with David and agree to a large extent.
Naturally, if you want shade, you wouldn't normally select a
particularly dwarf form, but it seems implicit that this was an impulse
buy (we've all done that!). A small tree with a wide crown would offer
you better shade than a taller tree, of course, but you expressly
preferred 'taller'. Not hard to see why, though;~). If you were to
replace it (or plant another tree), I can highly recommend Crataegus x
persimilis 'Prunifolia', otherwise known as the cherry-leaved hawthorn:

http://www.bluebellnursery.com/catal...rataegus/C/857

It is a strikingly beautiful tree with late spring blossom, summer
shade, autumn leaf colour and persistent red berries ... and long thorns!

At some point your tree will offer you some shade, but it will be
sitting under - rather than standing under - shade, and in truth not too
much of it. It may help if both the trees you pictured are planted
close together, giving you a larger sitting-in-shade area.

For your information, Cox's Orange Pippin is a spur-bearer, which makes
pruning rather easier, but I think you should ease off the pruning for now!

I note you're no longer in SE London. I wonder where you are, just in
case it informs your gardening .. or our understanding of it.
Do let us know what you decide to do.
Best wishes,
--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay

On 29/06/2015 12:06, AL_n wrote:
I've also heard that orange cox pippins can be disease-prone

Cox in general do seem to suffer a fair bit - I've got three and they
are the only apple trees I have that seem to be highly susceptible to
canker. they can also be badly affected by insects, often resulting in
leaf curl and early leaf drop. More of the fruit also seems to be
susceptible to damage.

That said, they are still reasonably prolific and IMO, the taste of a
good cox is up there with the absolute best. They might not be the
longest living fruit trees (due to the above) but I would hate to be
without them.

I don't have a lot of experience in the alternatives, so I'd be
interested in hearing of other eaters with something like their
combination of sweet/sharp juiciness and vibrant apple flavour.

--
Regards andy

On 29/06/2015 15:47, Andy Wilkes wrote:
That said, they are still reasonably prolific and IMO, the taste of a
good cox is up there with the absolute best.

And of course, no matter what the root stock, they provide an almost
limitless supply of juicy double entendres.

--
regards andy

On 29/06/2015 15:47, Andy Wilkes wrote:
I don't have a lot of experience in the alternatives, so I'd be
interested in hearing of other eaters with something like their
combination of sweet/sharp juiciness and vibrant apple flavour.

I did a load of research and ended up with a Sunset. I can't tell you
yet if I made the right decision...

Andy

Spider wrote in :

I note you're no longer in SE London. I wonder where you are, just in
case it informs your gardening .. or our understanding of it.
Do let us know what you decide to do.
Best wishes,

Hi Spider,
Thanks for the added input. I'll leave the tree as it is for now, but will
keep my eye open for a possible alternative. Your Hawthorn tree might end
up too tall for my purposes. I'm loking for something that grows to about 4
metres in height, max, ideally with no low branches, but a good spread and
dense foilage up top! That's the ideal, anyway. I live down on the south
coast of the west country now, so I get a fair bit of wind, very little
frost, and have salty air and alkaline, clayey soil.

I'm trying to think where there is 'high ground' in SE London! I remember
Blackheath Hill which was right on my doorstep in 1980, and also Crystal
Palace, which I could see in the distance from my window, which seemed to
be on a hill but can't remember much else in the way of hills in that
segment of London.

Best regards,
Al

On 01/07/2015 17:23, AL_n wrote:
Spider wrote in :

I note you're no longer in SE London. I wonder where you are, just in
case it informs your gardening .. or our understanding of it.
Do let us know what you decide to do.
Best wishes,

Hi Spider,
Thanks for the added input. I'll leave the tree as it is for now, but will
keep my eye open for a possible alternative. Your Hawthorn tree might end
up too tall for my purposes. I'm loking for something that grows to about 4
metres in height, max, ideally with no low branches, but a good spread and
dense foilage up top! That's the ideal, anyway. I live down on the south
coast of the west country now, so I get a fair bit of wind, very little
frost, and have salty air and alkaline, clayey soil.

I'm trying to think where there is 'high ground' in SE London! I remember
Blackheath Hill which was right on my doorstep in 1980, and also Crystal
Palace, which I could see in the distance from my window, which seemed to
be on a hill but can't remember much else in the way of hills in that
segment of London.

Best regards,
Al

I thought you wanted to produce apples as well as shade.
If not then take a walk around your local parks and see what does well
with them and they will be mature trees so you can see their size.

David Hill wrote in news:cvj4duFrtfnU1
@mid.individual.net:

I thought you wanted to produce apples as well as shade.
If not then take a walk around your local parks and see what does well
with them and they will be mature trees so you can see their size.


Thanks for the tip. Not sure how well I would do identifying them though.

Al

On 02/07/2015 17:37, AL_n wrote:
David Hill wrote in news:cvj4duFrtfnU1
@mid.individual.net:

I thought you wanted to produce apples as well as shade.
If not then take a walk around your local parks and see what does well
with them and they will be mature trees so you can see their size.


Thanks for the tip. Not sure how well I would do identifying them though.

Al

Take a couple of pictures and ask here if you cant find any park staff.

On 01/07/2015 17:23, AL_n wrote:
Spider wrote in :

I note you're no longer in SE London. I wonder where you are, just in
case it informs your gardening .. or our understanding of it.
Do let us know what you decide to do.
Best wishes,

Hi Spider,
Thanks for the added input. I'll leave the tree as it is for now, but will
keep my eye open for a possible alternative. Your Hawthorn tree might end
up too tall for my purposes. I'm loking for something that grows to about 4
metres in height, max, ideally with no low branches, but a good spread and
dense foilage up top! That's the ideal, anyway. I live down on the south
coast of the west country now, so I get a fair bit of wind, very little
frost, and have salty air and alkaline, clayey soil.


All understood. Hope you're enjoying the West Country. Yes, coastal
winds can be a problem and a shelteer belt is one solution, though often
at the expense of the view. Hope you find a solution.

I'm trying to think where there is 'high ground' in SE London! I remember
Blackheath Hill which was right on my doorstep in 1980, and also Crystal
Palace, which I could see in the distance from my window, which seemed to
be on a hill but can't remember much else in the way of hills in that
segment of London.

As you say, there are those two hills and one of them is 'mine'! ;~))

Best regards,
Al

Best wishes,
--
Spider.
On high ground in SE London
gardening on heavy clay