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#1
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Old roses
I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I
wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it, coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away where they should)? Or is it time to replace them? |
#2
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Old roses
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:20:05 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre" wrote: I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it, coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away where they should)? Or is it time to replace them? Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits grafted onto a more vigorous root stock, and that a cutting wouldn't be anything like as healthy? Has your soil become rose sick? http://tinyurl.com/y7kr92ux Probably :-) But I didn't think that affected the roses that were already there. I'll go and read that link anyway. |
#3
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Old roses
Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:36:54 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre" wrote: Chris Hogg wrote: On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:20:05 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre" wrote: I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it, coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away where they should)? Or is it time to replace them? Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits grafted onto a more vigorous root stock, and that a cutting wouldn't be anything like as healthy? I've always understood that commercial growers use bud grafting because it enables them to build up their stock of any particular rose, very quickly, rather than because the scion was slower growing or less vigorous than the rootstock, unlike fruit trees for example, where the rootstock has a major influence on how the scion behaves. But I may be wrong. Can't do any harm to try, I suppose :-) |
#4
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Old roses
On 07/07/2017 10:20, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it, coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away where they should)? Or is it time to replace them? Pegging a stem down onto a pot of compost and burying the stem might result in it rooting down wild rose style - much like brambles do. Or air layering. Seems more likely to work than a simple cutting. -- Regards, Martin Brown |
#5
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Old roses
Martin Brown wrote:
On 07/07/2017 10:20, Dan S. MacAbre wrote: I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it, coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away where they should)? Or is it time to replace them? Pegging a stem down onto a pot of compost and burying the stem might result in it rooting down wild rose style - much like brambles do. Or air layering. Seems more likely to work than a simple cutting. I'm usually pretty lucky with cuttings, but I hadn't even thought of that. But I will try it now. I suppose I was wondering if the plant seeming to be killed off by the woody/corky base lumps are just something that happens with age, or if it was an indication of a problem with the affected plants. |
#6
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Old roses
On 07/07/2017 11:19, Chris Hogg wrote:
On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:36:54 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre" wrote: Chris Hogg wrote: On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:20:05 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre" wrote: I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it, coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away where they should)? Or is it time to replace them? Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits grafted onto a more vigorous root stock, and that a cutting wouldn't be anything like as healthy? I've always understood that commercial growers use bud grafting because it enables them to build up their stock of any particular rose, very quickly, rather than because the scion was slower growing or less vigorous than the rootstock, unlike fruit trees for example, where the rootstock has a major influence on how the scion behaves. But I may be wrong. Most roses (not all ) will grow more strongly on their own roots than the rootstock they are budded onto. The problem roses tend to be the yellows and oranges which dont seem to do that well as cuttings. -- Charlie Pridham Gardening in Cornwall www.roselandhouse.co.uk |
#7
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Old roses
On 07/07/17 11:28, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Chris Hogg wrote: Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits grafted onto a more vigorous root stock, and that a cutting wouldn't be anything like as healthy? I've always understood that commercial growers use bud grafting because it enables them to build up their stock of any particular rose, very quickly, rather than because the scion was slower growing or less vigorous than the rootstock, unlike fruit trees for example, where the rootstock has a major influence on how the scion behaves. But I may be wrong. Can't do any harm to try, I suppose :-) When I pruned my roses this February I simply stuck the prunings in the ground. Some rooting took place; I am informed by a old gardener that if you try to take cuttings this way you need at least 4 leaf joints buried underground for the cutting to root. I've no idea if this is true or not - or even if it applies to all roses - but in general most roses pruned down in winter will give you very long cuttings with considerably more than 4 leaf joints. You've nothing to lose by trying to root those. -- Jeff |
#9
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Old roses
Jeff Layman wrote:
On 07/07/17 11:28, Dan S. MacAbre wrote: Chris Hogg wrote: Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits grafted onto a more vigorous root stock, and that a cutting wouldn't be anything like as healthy? I've always understood that commercial growers use bud grafting because it enables them to build up their stock of any particular rose, very quickly, rather than because the scion was slower growing or less vigorous than the rootstock, unlike fruit trees for example, where the rootstock has a major influence on how the scion behaves. But I may be wrong. Can't do any harm to try, I suppose :-) When I pruned my roses this February I simply stuck the prunings in the ground. Some rooting took place; I am informed by a old gardener that if you try to take cuttings this way you need at least 4 leaf joints buried underground for the cutting to root. I've no idea if this is true or not - or even if it applies to all roses - but in general most roses pruned down in winter will give you very long cuttings with considerably more than 4 leaf joints. You've nothing to lose by trying to root those. I will definitely try that. I've often found that if you bury enough of something with a bit sticking out it will grow. Might be a bit hot at the moment, though :-) I missed the pruning this year. They never really stopped growing last Winter, so I thought it might not be best to cut them all down. |
#10
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Old roses
Janet wrote:
In article , says... Chris Hogg wrote: On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:20:05 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre" wrote: I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it, coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away where they should)? Or is it time to replace them? Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits grafted onto a more vigorous root stock, Grafting is for speedy success in commercial propagation. and that a cutting wouldn't be anything like as healthy? Many "modern" roses will do very well on their own roots, it's always worth trying a cutting or six. (This was one of my early-days surprise lessons as a gardener, from a local hedge of thriving "Peace" roses, all on their own roots, grown from cuttings by a neighbour with no green fingers). Most of the roses in my garden are on their own roots and some have come from previous gardens (Not all of them mine, LOL). As soon as my new roses get big enough to take cuttings from, they're next. I'll definitely be trying it when it's cooled down a bit. Janet. Has your soil become rose sick? http://tinyurl.com/y7kr92ux Probably :-) But I didn't think that affected the roses that were already there. I'll go and read that link anyway. |
#11
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Old roses
On 07/07/2017 13:55, Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
Janet wrote: In article , says... Chris Hogg wrote: On Fri, 7 Jul 2017 10:20:05 +0100, "Dan S. MacAbre" wrote: I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years of pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around it, coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can cut bits of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it mean that something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be happening because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not rotting away where they should)? Or is it time to replace them? Two things: Why not try taking cuttings? http://tinyurl.com/ydevb5rq I would, but I've always assumed the top bits were slower-growing bits grafted onto a more vigorous root stock, Grafting is for speedy success in commercial propagation. and that a cutting wouldn't be anything like as healthy? Many "modern" roses will do very well on their own roots, it's always worth trying a cutting or six. (This was one of my early-days surprise lessons as a gardener, from a local hedge of thriving "Peace" roses, all on their own roots, grown from cuttings by a neighbour with no green fingers). Most of the roses in my garden are on their own roots and some have come from previous gardens (Not all of them mine, LOL). As soon as my new roses get big enough to take cuttings from, they're next. I'll definitely be trying it when it's cooled down a bit. Janet. Has your soil become rose sick? http://tinyurl.com/y7kr92ux Probably :-) But I didn't think that affected the roses that were already there. I'll go and read that link anyway. When taking rose cuttings I have always removed the buds that are going underground and also scrape the lower parts of the stems either with your finger nail or with a knife blade to add more scaring to the lower part of the stem, this will callus over and give you a much larger area to throw roots, (You can do this to many other cuttings as well as roses), then leave 3 or 4 buds above ground. Works for me. David @ a still dry side of Swansea bay |
#12
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Old roses
Dan S. MacAbre wrote:
: Martin Brown wrote: : On 07/07/2017 10:20, Dan S. MacAbre wrote: : I have some roses that I quite like, but they're rather old, too. I : wouldn't expect that to be a problem, and it mostly isn't. But some : have formed a large woody lump at the base (not suprising after years : of pruning), and the plants seem only able to make new shoots around : it, coming out horizontally, which doesn't help their habit. I can : cut bits of it away, although I'm not sure that helps; but does it : mean that something else is wrong? It occurred to me that it might be : happening because the plants aren't buried deeply enough (and so not : rotting away where they should)? Or is it time to replace them? : : Pegging a stem down onto a pot of compost and burying the stem might : result in it rooting down wild rose style - much like brambles do. : : Or air layering. Seems more likely to work than a simple cutting. : : I'm usually pretty lucky with cuttings, but I hadn't even thought of : that. But I will try it now. I suppose I was wondering if the plant : seeming to be killed off by the woody/corky base lumps are just : something that happens with age, or if it was an indication of a problem : with the affected plants. Hi Dan, I have a rose exactly like this. Last year it produced a couple of tiny spindly shoots from outside its dead woody lump, this year only one. It is more than 50 years old and I am sure it is on its way out. I did not want to lose it. My attempt to graft a piece of it onto a Rosa canina stock failed I believe due to the tiny feeble axial bud from one of its tiny stems. Instead I tried a cutting last year, which rooted nicely and I was rewarded with this, http://www.mklab.rhul.ac.uk/~tom/IMG...620_185015.jpg -- its first flower, a few weeks ago. I believe the variety is most likely Crimson Glory or Ena Harkness. How old is your rose? Good luck with the cutting. Tom -- Ps. The email address in the header is just a spam-trap. Tom Crane, Dept. Physics, Royal Holloway, University of London, Egham Hill, Egham, Surrey, TW20 0EX, England. Email: T dot Crane at rhul dot ac dot uk |
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