I've Googled away and learned a little bit about RCDs (which I admit I had
never heard of till I read the assembly instructions for our bottom of the
range lawnmower). I have a few questions I was hoping someone here could
answer:

There seem to be different types of RCD - which is best for a lawnmower?
Where do you buy them from? (not necessarily on line)
How much do they cost?

cheers

dd

a couple of the links
http://www.mywatergarden.co.uk/rcd.html
http://www.niceic.org.uk/consumers/gardenhaz.html
and
http://www.congorcd.org/
which is not quite what I had in mind

There seem to be different types of RCD - which is best for a lawnmower?
Where do you buy them from? (not necessarily on line)

Avoid the ones at B&Q in grey plastic. I bought one from there and it kept
tripping for no reason. After about 10 minutes of just being in a power
socket with nothing plugged into it, it would get warm then trip! B&Q
swapped it, and the replacement did the same so I got my money back. Can't
remember the brand of the one I've got now except that it is white in
colour. I recall it was a couple of quid more than the cheapo ones at B&Q.
--
Drakanthus.


(Spam filter: Include the word VB anywhere in the subject line or emails
will never reach me.)

--
"Drakanthus" wrote in message
...
There seem to be different types of RCD - which is best for a lawnmower?
Where do you buy them from? (not necessarily on line)

Avoid the ones at B&Q in grey plastic. I bought one from there and it kept
tripping for no reason. After about 10 minutes of just being in a power
socket with nothing plugged into it, it would get warm then trip! B&Q
swapped it, and the replacement did the same so I got my money back. Can't
remember the brand of the one I've got now except that it is white in
colour. I recall it was a couple of quid more than the cheapo ones at B&Q.
--
Drakanthus.



A word of warning, if you are using an electrical appliance on a long lead
plug the RCD into the end of the extension lead. If there is a long lead
between you and the LCD the finite time taken for it to react could give you
little or no protection.

cheers
John T

On Sun, 18 May 2003 15:06:57 +0100, John Towill wrote:

A word of warning, if you are using an electrical appliance on a
long lead plug the RCD into the end of the extension lead.

ARGH! NO!!

This is just plain wrong and dangerous in that you *think* you have
RCD protection but you haven't. If you damage that extension cable you
have *no* RCD protection. See you at St Peters Gates...

If there is a long lead between you and the LCD the finite time
taken for it to react could give you little or no protection.

The length of the lead is not relevant, unless it's very long and you
have a very sensitive (10mA) RCD then it can be tricky getting the
trip to stay in as you switch on due to the capacitance in the cable.

As for the OPs question modern wiring regulations effectively state
that any socket that *might* be used to power an appliance outside
must be protected by an RCD inside the property. Depending on how you
read this it could mean all sockets have to be RCD protected (it's
possible to throw and extension out of window after all, indeed I have
done that when I wanted power outside and I lived in a 3rd floor
flat...) or just those on the ground floor, the accepted meaning.

To advise properly we really need to know a bit more about the OPs
electrical instalation.

Is there an RCD already in place in the Consumer Unit (CU), aka "fuse
box"?

If so is the CU a split load type? Some circuits RCD protected others
not or a "whole house" RCD.

If an RCD is present what is its rating, 100mA, 30mA, time delayed?

Once we have that information better suggestions can be made as to
what is required.

--
Cheers
Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in
ill.network:

On Sun, 18 May 2003 15:06:57 +0100, John Towill wrote:

A word of warning, if you are using an electrical appliance on a
long lead plug the RCD into the end of the extension lead.

ARGH! NO!!

This is just plain wrong and dangerous in that you *think* you have
RCD protection but you haven't. If you damage that extension cable you
have *no* RCD protection. See you at St Peters Gates...

Don't breakers go in the wall socket and the extension goes into that?

Thats what I have been doing with my mower and stereo....

*Looks nervous*

In message , Rick McGreal
writes
"Dave Liquorice" wrote in
hill.network:

On Sun, 18 May 2003 15:06:57 +0100, John Towill wrote:

A word of warning, if you are using an electrical appliance on a
long lead plug the RCD into the end of the extension lead.

ARGH! NO!!

This is just plain wrong and dangerous in that you *think* you have
RCD protection but you haven't. If you damage that extension cable you
have *no* RCD protection. See you at St Peters Gates...

Don't breakers go in the wall socket and the extension goes into that?

Thats what I have been doing with my mower and stereo....

Yes, that's how it should be.
--
Chris French and Helen Johnson, Leeds
urg Suppliers and References FAQ:
http://www.familyfrench.co.uk/garden/urgfaq/index.html

In message . network,
Dave Liquorice writes

As for the OPs question modern wiring regulations effectively state
that any socket that *might* be used to power an appliance outside
must be protected by an RCD inside the property.

Just to clarify - in case anyone starts worrying, these regulations are
not retrospective.
--
Chris French and Helen Johnson, Leeds
urg Suppliers and References FAQ:
http://www.familyfrench.co.uk/garden/urgfaq/index.html

In article , DDEckerslyke
writes

There seem to be different types of RCD - which is best for a lawnmower?
Where do you buy them from? (not necessarily on line)
How much do they cost?

I've had a qualcast one for years, and its been very good - I've used it
for all sorts of things. Unfortunately although it is rated at 3Kva I've
just melted it by running an immersion heater through it. RIP.

Jon
--
E-mail bouncing? Make sure your mailer is set to 'plain text' and not 'html'.

On 18 May 2003 15:33:02 GMT, Rick McGreal wrote:

A word of warning, if you are using an electrical appliance on a
long lead plug the RCD into the end of the extension lead.

Don't breakers go in the wall socket and the extension goes into
that?

If you have a plug in RCD yes but *in the house*. I read that post to
mean "plug the RCD into the far end of the extension lead."

Especially as the next sentance/para witters something weird about
long leads giving problems and this was to avoid those problems...

--
Cheers
Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email.

"Dave Liquorice" wrote in message

To advise properly we really need to know a bit more about the OPs
electrical instalation.
Is there an RCD already in place in the Consumer Unit (CU), aka "fuse
box"?

I knew this wasn't going to be simple. OK I've had a look on the fuse box
and what seem to be relevant are the following:

'ELCB automatically switches off when an earth fault occurs'
'Residual Current Operated Circuit Breaker'
'404ELHNC'
'I subscript n = 80A'
'I with three subscripts that look like O, delta, n = 30mA'

If only I spoke Electrician. Does this make any sense? Will we need an RCD?

cheers

dd

On Sun, 18 May 2003 17:21:59 +0100, Chris French and Helen Johnson
wrote:

Just to clarify - in case anyone starts worrying, these regulations
are not retrospective.

True but worth bearing in mind.

--
Cheers
Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email.

In message . network,
Dave Liquorice writes
On Sun, 18 May 2003 17:21:59 +0100, Chris French and Helen Johnson
wrote:

Just to clarify - in case anyone starts worrying, these regulations
are not retrospective.

True but worth bearing in mind.

Oh sure, I just didn't want anyone to get the wrong end of the stick
--
Chris French and Helen Johnson, Leeds
urg Suppliers and References FAQ:
http://www.familyfrench.co.uk/garden/urgfaq/index.html

On Sun, 18 May 2003 20:35:05 +0100, DDEckerslyke wrote:

I knew this wasn't going to be simple. OK I've had a look on the
fuse box and what seem to be relevant are the following:

'ELCB automatically switches off when an earth fault occurs'
'Residual Current Operated Circuit Breaker'

So you do have an RCD in the fuse box, good. Now what circuits is it
protecting? The labling should tell you which circuits are RCD
protected and which aren't (if any). If the circuit (or ring) that you
use for external appliances is protected by this RCD then you are
protected. Use the test button every so often, 6 months to a year is
fine.

'404ELHNC'

Type/model number.

'I subscript n = 80A'

Capable of switching 80A.

'I with three subscripts that look like O, delta, n = 30mA'

Trips at a nominal 30mA of leakage.

Will we need an RCD?

Is this device at one end or somewhere in the middle with a bigger
switch at (normally) the right hand end?

If it's protecting the whole house it's really the wrong type, a whole
house RCD should be a 100mA time delayed device and other circuits
(such as those feeding garages, used outside etc) should have their
own 30mA non delayed devices.

The big snag with a whole house RCD is if it trips the lights go out,
not nice if your up a ladder and just, stupidly, accidentally shorted
something or picked up the mains... or your doing something and some
one else causes it to trip.

--
Cheers
Dave. Remove "spam" for valid email.

John Towill wrote:

A word of warning, if you are using an electrical appliance on a long lead
plug the RCD into the end of the extension lead. If there is a long lead
between you and the LCD the finite time taken for it to react could give you
little or no protection.

What a load of rubbish!

The RCD will trip just as quickly whichever end of the lead it is at
(within a few nanoseconds anyway, immaterial to your safety).

What this posting *may* be referring to is the CPC (earth) conductor
resistance which *does* affect the speed at which an MCB (overload
protection device) will trip. However you'll never have an MCB at the
'user' end of the cable, it's not practical. The point of using an
RCD in this situation is that it overcomes the possible problem with
the slowness of the MCB (and offers other protection as well).

--
Chris Green )

John Towill wrote:

A word of warning, if you are using an electrical appliance on a long lead
plug the RCD into the end of the extension lead. If there is a long lead
between you and the LCD the finite time taken for it to react could give you
little or no protection.

What a load of rubbish!

The RCD will trip just as quickly whichever end of the lead it is at
(within a few nanoseconds anyway, immaterial to your safety).

What this posting *may* be referring to is the CPC (earth) conductor
resistance which *does* affect the speed at which an MCB (overload
protection device) will trip. However you'll never have an MCB at the
'user' end of the cable, it's not practical. The point of using an
RCD in this situation is that it overcomes the possible problem with
the slowness of the MCB (and offers other protection as well).

--
Chris Green )