Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Someone
Like You writes
What disagreement can you possibly have with science that has proof???

Midsummer day is not a scientific concept. It is a traditional date,
like Christmas Day. It is therefore not provable by scientific means
(other than by the methods of historical research to determine when
people in the past have celebrated it).

It's more than "traditional", it's a Quarter Day (see my other
comment).

--
Chris Green )

In article ,
writes
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Someone
Like You writes
What disagreement can you possibly have with science that has proof???

Midsummer day is not a scientific concept. It is a traditional date,
like Christmas Day. It is therefore not provable by scientific means
(other than by the methods of historical research to determine when
people in the past have celebrated it).

It's more than "traditional", it's a Quarter Day (see my other
comment).

Your demonstration that it is a quarter day seems a lot more convincing
to my mind than the other poster's demonstration that the summer
solstice is on Jun 21st and his assertion without proof that midsummer
day must also be on jun 21st.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:147436

"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article ,
writes
Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Someone
Like You writes
What disagreement can you possibly have with science that has proof???

Midsummer day is not a scientific concept. It is a traditional date,
like Christmas Day. It is therefore not provable by scientific means
(other than by the methods of historical research to determine when
people in the past have celebrated it).

It's more than "traditional", it's a Quarter Day (see my other
comment).

Your demonstration that it is a quarter day seems a lot more convincing
to my mind than the other poster's demonstration that the summer
solstice is on Jun 21st and his assertion without proof that midsummer
day must also be on jun 21st.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

My assertion actually was that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for
anything to be celebrated on the 24th June. Tradition is not a reason. The
24th June has no real signifigance. At all.

"Martin Richards" wrote in message
...
OK, time to wade in...

"June Hughes" wrote
Someone Like You writes
What disagreement can you possibly have with science that has proof???

If you want any further clarification, let me know!

No comment except to say that the longest day and Midsummers day are two
different things.

What tosh, I thinks, of course midsummer's day co-incides with the
solstice... I've been to Sweden and watched the dancing round the
midsummer
pole on the solstice. So I did a bit of googling...


Thank you for your agreement!

http://www.irishfestivals.net/midsummersday.htm says:
The festival is primarily a Celtic fire festival, representing the
middle of summer, and the shortening of the days on their gradual march to
winter. Midsummer is traditionally celebrated on either the 23rd or 24th
of
June, although the longest day actually falls on the 21st of June. The
importance of the day to our ancestors can be traced back many thousands
of
years, and many stone circles and other ancient monuments are aligned to
the
sunrise on Midsummer's Day. Probably the most famous alignment is that at
Stonehenge, where the sun rises over the heel stone, framed by the giant
trilithons on Midsummer morning.

This last bit is a little odd, as I thought all the pagans and druids hung
out at stonehenge on the solstice not 24 June - perhaps the 'real' ones do
go on 24th, of course, in peace and solitude, while letting the 'trendy'
pagans (and the media) clutter up the solstice in ignorance ;-) That
said,
this explanation ties in nicely with Christmas, which is, by timing, a
modern hijacking of an older festival, also a few days after the solstice.

So with several sites confirming that 21st is Midsummer's Day in Sweden,
while several others claim Midsummers is also known as St John's Day and
celebrated on 23-24 June (another Christian hijacking?), I think it is
reasonably safe to say that Midsummer's day can be what and when you want
it
to be, and its date bears no fundamental relationship to the solstice.

There are however some confused people out the
http://www.bbhs.suffolk.sch.uk/tradi...midsummer.html claims
that
"Midsummer is celebrated at the summer solstice in June. It's a festival
of
light and midsummer's beauty. Sun is longest above the horizon and in the
north all the night. It's called "nightless night". Midsummer June 24 th
is
also a day of the Finnish flag." This seems to be a UK school's site, so
I'm a little concerned that they seem to think the solstice is 24 June -
and
even if they don't, they should be making it clearer that they undestand
the
difference!

Ho hum...

Martin, getting ready to duck ;-)

Mark wrote:
My assertion actually was that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for
anything to be celebrated on the 24th June. Tradition is not a reason. The
24th June has no real signifigance. At all.

Except that it's a Quarter Day which has some legal significance and
its name (as a Quarter Day) is Midsummer Day. It's also the feast od
St. john the Baptist.

I agree it's not the summer solstice though. :-)

--
Chris Green )

In article , Mark
writes

My assertion actually was that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for
anything to be celebrated on the 24th June. Tradition is not a reason. The
24th June has no real signifigance. At all.


Are you really God?? Do you really exist? I am Stunned! Amen!
--
June Hughes

The message
from June Hughes contains these words:

In article , Mark
writes

My assertion actually was that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for
anything to be celebrated on the 24th June. Tradition is not a reason. The
24th June has no real signifigance. At all.


Are you really God?? Do you really exist? I am Stunned! Amen!

Gedaway. If God existed, why would She have allowed a man to rewrite
the calendar?

Janet.

"June Hughes" wrote in message
...
In article , Mark
writes

My assertion actually was that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever
for
anything to be celebrated on the 24th June. Tradition is not a reason.
The
24th June has no real signifigance. At all.


Are you really God?? Do you really exist? I am Stunned! Amen!
--
June Hughes

LOL

In article , Mark
writes
"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

Your demonstration that it is a quarter day seems a lot more convincing
to my mind than the other poster's demonstration that the summer
solstice is on Jun 21st and his assertion without proof that midsummer
day must also be on jun 21st.

My assertion actually was that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever for
anything to be celebrated on the 24th June. Tradition is not a reason. The
24th June has no real signifigance. At all.

Would you also apply that to the various religious festivals? After all,
they have nothing other than tradition behind them.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:147780


"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Mark
writes
"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...

Your demonstration that it is a quarter day seems a lot more convincing
to my mind than the other poster's demonstration that the summer
solstice is on Jun 21st and his assertion without proof that midsummer
day must also be on jun 21st.

My assertion actually was that there is absolutely no reason whatsoever
for
anything to be celebrated on the 24th June. Tradition is not a reason.
The
24th June has no real signifigance. At all.

Would you also apply that to the various religious festivals? After all,
they have nothing other than tradition behind them.


Examples??? Please.

--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:147304

OK, time to wade in...

"June Hughes" wrote
Someone Like You writes
What disagreement can you possibly have with science that has proof???

If you want any further clarification, let me know!

No comment except to say that the longest day and Midsummers day are two
different things.

What tosh, I thinks, of course midsummer's day co-incides with the
solstice... I've been to Sweden and watched the dancing round the midsummer
pole on the solstice. So I did a bit of googling...

http://www.irishfestivals.net/midsummersday.htm says:
The festival is primarily a Celtic fire festival, representing the
middle of summer, and the shortening of the days on their gradual march to
winter. Midsummer is traditionally celebrated on either the 23rd or 24th of
June, although the longest day actually falls on the 21st of June. The
importance of the day to our ancestors can be traced back many thousands of
years, and many stone circles and other ancient monuments are aligned to the
sunrise on Midsummer's Day. Probably the most famous alignment is that at
Stonehenge, where the sun rises over the heel stone, framed by the giant
trilithons on Midsummer morning.

This last bit is a little odd, as I thought all the pagans and druids hung
out at stonehenge on the solstice not 24 June - perhaps the 'real' ones do
go on 24th, of course, in peace and solitude, while letting the 'trendy'
pagans (and the media) clutter up the solstice in ignorance ;-) That said,
this explanation ties in nicely with Christmas, which is, by timing, a
modern hijacking of an older festival, also a few days after the solstice.

So with several sites confirming that 21st is Midsummer's Day in Sweden,
while several others claim Midsummers is also known as St John's Day and
celebrated on 23-24 June (another Christian hijacking?), I think it is
reasonably safe to say that Midsummer's day can be what and when you want it
to be, and its date bears no fundamental relationship to the solstice.

There are however some confused people out the
http://www.bbhs.suffolk.sch.uk/tradi...midsummer.html claims that
"Midsummer is celebrated at the summer solstice in June. It's a festival of
light and midsummer's beauty. Sun is longest above the horizon and in the
north all the night. It's called "nightless night". Midsummer June 24 th is
also a day of the Finnish flag." This seems to be a UK school's site, so
I'm a little concerned that they seem to think the solstice is 24 June - and
even if they don't, they should be making it clearer that they undestand the
difference!

Ho hum...

Martin, getting ready to duck ;-)

also a day of the Finnish flag."

The Finnish flag? Is that the black and white chequered thing they wave at
the end of the Grand Prix? ;-)

June Hughes wrote:

But it is a fact that 21st June (on the modern calendar) is always the
longest day. This is because the year is the time for one complete
Eart orbit of the Sun (=365.256 days). 21st December is always the
shortest.

No-one says 21st June isn't the longest day. However, 24 June is known
as Midsummers Day. There is a difference.

As I said earlier in the thread 24th June "Midsummer Day" is a Quarter
Day, one of four (surprise!) on which, traditionally, bills are paid.

See (for example) http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Misc/Quarter_days.html

Though I still don't agree with the Quarter days being the beginnings
of the four seasons.

--
Chris Green )

In article , Someone
Like You writes
What disagreement can you possibly have with science that has proof???

Midsummer day is not a scientific concept. It is a traditional date,
like Christmas Day. It is therefore not provable by scientific means
(other than by the methods of historical research to determine when
people in the past have celebrated it).

You have not presented any evidence to show that Midsummer day has been
traditional observed at the summer solstice, only evidence that the
summer solstice is on 21st June. That was not in dispute.
--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm

Kay Easton wrote:
In article , Someone
Like You writes
What disagreement can you possibly have with science that has proof???

Midsummer day is not a scientific concept. It is a traditional date,
like Christmas Day. It is therefore not provable by scientific means
(other than by the methods of historical research to determine when
people in the past have celebrated it).

It's more than "traditional", it's a Quarter Day (see my other
comment).

--
Chris Green )