In view of all the rather nasty posts recently I would like to say a
very warm Thank You to the genuine URG Posters like Janet, Sacha, Nick,
David and others (you know who you are), who in the past year have
provided so much helpful knowledge, often wittily and pungently
expressed.

May I wish you all a productive and happy New Year.
--
Ian Wolfe.
Linlithgow. Birthplace of Mary, Queen of Scots.
Blessed are the peacemakers.

"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...

"Brian Watson" wrote in message
...



The reason I did is because I am firmly of the opinion that
Annelies
(who
chose to follow up his/her own posting a day later in a pretty
confrontational way) and lerato1uk are one and the same


You are clearly quite a detective.

Personally, my suspicions were aroused when lerato1uk said in her
first
post

"Hello all,


My name is Annelies..."

What's so funny about that? She posted openly as both Annelies and
lerato 1
uk.

I agree with you - nothing funny about it. Clearly my sarcasm needs work
:-)

Perhaps my sense of humour needs fertilising
{:-))

Franz

"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Neil Jones" wrote in message
...

"Brian Watson" wrote in message
...



The reason I did is because I am firmly of the opinion that
Annelies
(who
chose to follow up his/her own posting a day later in a pretty
confrontational way) and lerato1uk are one and the same


You are clearly quite a detective.

Personally, my suspicions were aroused when lerato1uk said in her
first
post

"Hello all,


My name is Annelies..."

What's so funny about that? She posted openly as both Annelies and
lerato 1
uk.

I agree with you - nothing funny about it. Clearly my sarcasm needs work
:-)

Perhaps my sense of humour needs fertilising
{:-))

Franz

"Anne Wheeldon" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough .." wrote in
message ...
The message
from "Brian Watson" contains these words:


Personally, I believe Janet was right in identifying Annelies as a
troll
and
giving him/her a good telling off.

I gave her some positive life coaching, by suggesting she cultivate
better manners.

If Annelies is not a troll, then she has scored an amazing hat-trick
of favourite troll tactics.

First, she posted a question and shortly followed it up with a
flammable
demand for answers.

Annelies' reply was not a flammable demand for answers.

When I replied, she started a new thread in which to play the injured
innocent,(common troll tactic).

Are you really surprised at her actions, considering the content of your
reply?

Third, she played the "I'm leaving" card..another troll habit which
usually means " I'm just slipping into another posting ID. While
you're
waiting, the gullible are invited to comfort my injured sock puppet
and
try to persuade it to stay".

So far she seems to have been as good as her word. But let's wait and
see.

Franz

I haven't had a lot to do with this little altercation and relative
newbies
like Frank

Who's this Frank about whom you are talking?

probably don't even know who I am... However, I have read wise
and sensible comments from Janet for quite a few years

So have I. I have trestified to that on numerous occasions.

and don't really
think it's appropriate for folk who don't have a track record on the group
to criticise and find fault with her quite justified comments.

It would be nice if you were to elaborate a little on the justification for
Janet's comments in the particular case we are discussing.

I don't have a lot of time for my garden right now, cos work has
superimposed itself however I do find time to enjoy: the hellebores, the
daffodils and crocuses, the snowdrops and primroses, the viburnum and the
garrya, the many other wonderful things that are happening in the garden
right now. That's why we're here isn't it?

That is true. Thanks for helping me illustrate my point.

I'm really fed up with the arguments about nothing on this group these
days.
Maybe we need to talk to someone like Alan Gould who's been here since the
early days and ask him to arbitrate: if Alan doesn't like what you have to
say bugger off and give us peace! Most of us who garden aren't into agro
and
confrontation at all.

Really?
What is your post about them?
Am I supposed to sit back quietly while one or two folk in urg have taken it
into their heads to practice a little character assassination on a newcomer?

Franz

"Anne Wheeldon" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough .." wrote in
message ...
The message
from "Brian Watson" contains these words:


Personally, I believe Janet was right in identifying Annelies as a
troll
and
giving him/her a good telling off.

I gave her some positive life coaching, by suggesting she cultivate
better manners.

If Annelies is not a troll, then she has scored an amazing hat-trick
of favourite troll tactics.

First, she posted a question and shortly followed it up with a
flammable
demand for answers.

Annelies' reply was not a flammable demand for answers.

When I replied, she started a new thread in which to play the injured
innocent,(common troll tactic).

Are you really surprised at her actions, considering the content of your
reply?

Third, she played the "I'm leaving" card..another troll habit which
usually means " I'm just slipping into another posting ID. While
you're
waiting, the gullible are invited to comfort my injured sock puppet
and
try to persuade it to stay".

So far she seems to have been as good as her word. But let's wait and
see.

Franz

I haven't had a lot to do with this little altercation and relative
newbies
like Frank

Who's this Frank about whom you are talking?

probably don't even know who I am... However, I have read wise
and sensible comments from Janet for quite a few years

So have I. I have trestified to that on numerous occasions.

and don't really
think it's appropriate for folk who don't have a track record on the group
to criticise and find fault with her quite justified comments.

It would be nice if you were to elaborate a little on the justification for
Janet's comments in the particular case we are discussing.

I don't have a lot of time for my garden right now, cos work has
superimposed itself however I do find time to enjoy: the hellebores, the
daffodils and crocuses, the snowdrops and primroses, the viburnum and the
garrya, the many other wonderful things that are happening in the garden
right now. That's why we're here isn't it?

That is true. Thanks for helping me illustrate my point.

I'm really fed up with the arguments about nothing on this group these
days.
Maybe we need to talk to someone like Alan Gould who's been here since the
early days and ask him to arbitrate: if Alan doesn't like what you have to
say bugger off and give us peace! Most of us who garden aren't into agro
and
confrontation at all.

Really?
What is your post about them?
Am I supposed to sit back quietly while one or two folk in urg have taken it
into their heads to practice a little character assassination on a newcomer?

Franz

"Anne Wheeldon" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
...
The message m
from lerato1uk contains
these
words:

First, she posted a question and shortly followed it up with a
flammable
demand for answers.

Wrong.
I posted a request after I had seen and admired the available
knowledge on this list for quite a while. I did NOT demand
answers,
I
simply expressed my amazement since (perhaps in my ignorance) I
didn't think I had posted a very complicated/difficult question.
It was your mind imterpreting it the way you did - it was possibly
my
awkwardness in a foreign language putting it open to
misinterpretation. It was also YOUR reaction which was not
particularly open to many interpretations nor is the reaction of a
few others on this list. .........


When I replied, she started a new thread in which to play the
injured
innocent,(common troll tactic).

Excuse me? All I wanted was to leave the list. I didn't start any
other thread, I simply answered somebody else with a question about
greenhouses (wow, something I had a little experience with) and
answered the useful reply that did come my way.

First, for the group's information, may I state unequivocably that
Annelies is who she says she is.

Unfortunately we *DO* have a nasty little troll in the group at
present,
who was posting at the same time as you did, and one who is expert at
posting from false addresses and (though he denies it) from anonymous
remailers. His speciality is posting something contentious or even
overtly racist, and crossposting or diverting to another (noisy) group
the resulting hue and cry.

The validity of an address is difficult to authenticate if it is
posted
through a website such as Gardenbanter - (or Privacy.net).

Watch your headers, folks, and especially the groups and follow-up
lines.

Third, she played the "I'm leaving" card..another troll habit
which
usually means " I'm just slipping into another posting ID. While
you're
waiting, the gullible are invited to comfort my injured sock
puppet
and
try to persuade it to stay".

Wrong again. Maybe you should check your assumptions before jumping
to conclusions. Not everybody has the same plays in mind as you
obviously are thinking about.

Shall we take this as a case of mistaken identity and let things
simmer
down for a while? And hope that Annelies will understand that mistakes
can be made, especially under current circumstances?

Particularly when folk like Janet Barraclough and Brian Watson get the
bit
getween the teeth.
I expect early apologies to Annelies from both of them for their most
shocking display of guitter manners.

Franz
I haven't had a lot to do with this little altercation and relative
newbies
like Frank probably don't even know who I am... However, I have read wise
and sensible comments from Janet for quite a few years

So have I, and I have testified to that fact on numerous occasions.
That, however, does not entitle her to indulge in unwarranted character
assassination.

and don't really
think it's appropriate for folk who don't have a track record on the group
to criticise and find fault with her quite justified comments.

I think this is the second time you posted this.
Nevertheless, please let us have the evidence that Janet's comments on
Annelies were justified. You must know something I don't, so please share
the information.


I don't have a lot of time for my garden right now, cos work has
superimposed itself however I do find time to enjoy: the hellebores, the
daffodils and crocuses, the snowdrops and primroses, the viburnum and the
garrya, the many other wonderful things that are happening in the garden
right now. That's why we're here isn't it?

I'm really fed up with the arguments about nothing on this group these
days.
Maybe we need to talk to someone like Alan Gould who's been here since the
early days and ask him to arbitrate: if Alan doesn't like what you have to
say bugger off and give us peace!

I am afraid I do not accept arbitration in a matter in which I am defending
a newcomer to urg from an unwarranted onslaught from other contributors to
urg.

Most of us who garden aren'y into agro and
confrontation at all.

That is indeed true. So the sooner Janet Barraclough and Brian Watson
apologise to Annelies, the sooner we can return to gardening.

Franz

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Brian Watson" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Brian Watson" wrote in message
...

So I presume you will be adding Janet (and me) to your killfile?

No. Not at all. I don't run a killfile.

Personally, I believe Janet was right in identifying Annelies as a
troll
and
giving him/her a good telling off.

What was the evidence?

Hello, are you there?

Hello Brian, are you there?
On the 24th you posted some defamatory stuff about Annelies.
On the 24th I asked you for some evidence of the truth of what you averred.
On the 26th I reminded you that you had not yet provided the evidence
Today is the 28th. You have not yet done anything about it.
May we now have the evidence please, or do you propose to retract and
apologise to Annelies?

Franz

"Anne Wheeldon" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
...
The message m
from lerato1uk contains
these
words:

First, she posted a question and shortly followed it up with a
flammable
demand for answers.

Wrong.
I posted a request after I had seen and admired the available
knowledge on this list for quite a while. I did NOT demand
answers,
I
simply expressed my amazement since (perhaps in my ignorance) I
didn't think I had posted a very complicated/difficult question.
It was your mind imterpreting it the way you did - it was possibly
my
awkwardness in a foreign language putting it open to
misinterpretation. It was also YOUR reaction which was not
particularly open to many interpretations nor is the reaction of a
few others on this list. .........


When I replied, she started a new thread in which to play the
injured
innocent,(common troll tactic).

Excuse me? All I wanted was to leave the list. I didn't start any
other thread, I simply answered somebody else with a question about
greenhouses (wow, something I had a little experience with) and
answered the useful reply that did come my way.

First, for the group's information, may I state unequivocably that
Annelies is who she says she is.

Unfortunately we *DO* have a nasty little troll in the group at
present,
who was posting at the same time as you did, and one who is expert at
posting from false addresses and (though he denies it) from anonymous
remailers. His speciality is posting something contentious or even
overtly racist, and crossposting or diverting to another (noisy) group
the resulting hue and cry.

The validity of an address is difficult to authenticate if it is
posted
through a website such as Gardenbanter - (or Privacy.net).

Watch your headers, folks, and especially the groups and follow-up
lines.

Third, she played the "I'm leaving" card..another troll habit
which
usually means " I'm just slipping into another posting ID. While
you're
waiting, the gullible are invited to comfort my injured sock
puppet
and
try to persuade it to stay".

Wrong again. Maybe you should check your assumptions before jumping
to conclusions. Not everybody has the same plays in mind as you
obviously are thinking about.

Shall we take this as a case of mistaken identity and let things
simmer
down for a while? And hope that Annelies will understand that mistakes
can be made, especially under current circumstances?

Particularly when folk like Janet Barraclough and Brian Watson get the
bit
getween the teeth.
I expect early apologies to Annelies from both of them for their most
shocking display of guitter manners.

Franz
I haven't had a lot to do with this little altercation and relative
newbies
like Frank probably don't even know who I am... However, I have read wise
and sensible comments from Janet for quite a few years

So have I, and I have testified to that fact on numerous occasions.
That, however, does not entitle her to indulge in unwarranted character
assassination.

and don't really
think it's appropriate for folk who don't have a track record on the group
to criticise and find fault with her quite justified comments.

I think this is the second time you posted this.
Nevertheless, please let us have the evidence that Janet's comments on
Annelies were justified. You must know something I don't, so please share
the information.


I don't have a lot of time for my garden right now, cos work has
superimposed itself however I do find time to enjoy: the hellebores, the
daffodils and crocuses, the snowdrops and primroses, the viburnum and the
garrya, the many other wonderful things that are happening in the garden
right now. That's why we're here isn't it?

I'm really fed up with the arguments about nothing on this group these
days.
Maybe we need to talk to someone like Alan Gould who's been here since the
early days and ask him to arbitrate: if Alan doesn't like what you have to
say bugger off and give us peace!

I am afraid I do not accept arbitration in a matter in which I am defending
a newcomer to urg from an unwarranted onslaught from other contributors to
urg.

Most of us who garden aren'y into agro and
confrontation at all.

That is indeed true. So the sooner Janet Barraclough and Brian Watson
apologise to Annelies, the sooner we can return to gardening.

Franz

"Anne Wheeldon" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in
message
...
The message m
from lerato1uk contains
these
words:

First, she posted a question and shortly followed it up with a
flammable
demand for answers.

Wrong.
I posted a request after I had seen and admired the available
knowledge on this list for quite a while. I did NOT demand
answers,
I
simply expressed my amazement since (perhaps in my ignorance) I
didn't think I had posted a very complicated/difficult question.
It was your mind imterpreting it the way you did - it was possibly
my
awkwardness in a foreign language putting it open to
misinterpretation. It was also YOUR reaction which was not
particularly open to many interpretations nor is the reaction of a
few others on this list. .........


When I replied, she started a new thread in which to play the
injured
innocent,(common troll tactic).

Excuse me? All I wanted was to leave the list. I didn't start any
other thread, I simply answered somebody else with a question about
greenhouses (wow, something I had a little experience with) and
answered the useful reply that did come my way.

First, for the group's information, may I state unequivocably that
Annelies is who she says she is.

Unfortunately we *DO* have a nasty little troll in the group at
present,
who was posting at the same time as you did, and one who is expert at
posting from false addresses and (though he denies it) from anonymous
remailers. His speciality is posting something contentious or even
overtly racist, and crossposting or diverting to another (noisy) group
the resulting hue and cry.

The validity of an address is difficult to authenticate if it is
posted
through a website such as Gardenbanter - (or Privacy.net).

Watch your headers, folks, and especially the groups and follow-up
lines.

Third, she played the "I'm leaving" card..another troll habit
which
usually means " I'm just slipping into another posting ID. While
you're
waiting, the gullible are invited to comfort my injured sock
puppet
and
try to persuade it to stay".

Wrong again. Maybe you should check your assumptions before jumping
to conclusions. Not everybody has the same plays in mind as you
obviously are thinking about.

Shall we take this as a case of mistaken identity and let things
simmer
down for a while? And hope that Annelies will understand that mistakes
can be made, especially under current circumstances?

Particularly when folk like Janet Barraclough and Brian Watson get the
bit
getween the teeth.
I expect early apologies to Annelies from both of them for their most
shocking display of guitter manners.

Franz
I haven't had a lot to do with this little altercation and relative
newbies
like Frank probably don't even know who I am... However, I have read wise
and sensible comments from Janet for quite a few years

So have I, and I have testified to that fact on numerous occasions.
That, however, does not entitle her to indulge in unwarranted character
assassination.

and don't really
think it's appropriate for folk who don't have a track record on the group
to criticise and find fault with her quite justified comments.

I think this is the second time you posted this.
Nevertheless, please let us have the evidence that Janet's comments on
Annelies were justified. You must know something I don't, so please share
the information.


I don't have a lot of time for my garden right now, cos work has
superimposed itself however I do find time to enjoy: the hellebores, the
daffodils and crocuses, the snowdrops and primroses, the viburnum and the
garrya, the many other wonderful things that are happening in the garden
right now. That's why we're here isn't it?

I'm really fed up with the arguments about nothing on this group these
days.
Maybe we need to talk to someone like Alan Gould who's been here since the
early days and ask him to arbitrate: if Alan doesn't like what you have to
say bugger off and give us peace!

I am afraid I do not accept arbitration in a matter in which I am defending
a newcomer to urg from an unwarranted onslaught from other contributors to
urg.

Most of us who garden aren'y into agro and
confrontation at all.

That is indeed true. So the sooner Janet Barraclough and Brian Watson
apologise to Annelies, the sooner we can return to gardening.

Franz

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Brian Watson" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Brian Watson" wrote in message
...

So I presume you will be adding Janet (and me) to your killfile?

No. Not at all. I don't run a killfile.

Personally, I believe Janet was right in identifying Annelies as a
troll
and
giving him/her a good telling off.

What was the evidence?

Hello, are you there?

Hello Brian, are you there?
On the 24th you posted some defamatory stuff about Annelies.
On the 24th I asked you for some evidence of the truth of what you averred.
On the 26th I reminded you that you had not yet provided the evidence
Today is the 28th. You have not yet done anything about it.
May we now have the evidence please, or do you propose to retract and
apologise to Annelies?

Franz

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Brian Watson" wrote in message
...

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Brian Watson" wrote in message
...

So I presume you will be adding Janet (and me) to your killfile?

No. Not at all. I don't run a killfile.

Personally, I believe Janet was right in identifying Annelies as a
troll
and
giving him/her a good telling off.

What was the evidence?

Hello, are you there?

Hello Brian, are you there?
On the 24th you posted some defamatory stuff about Annelies.
On the 24th I asked you for some evidence of the truth of what you averred.
On the 26th I reminded you that you had not yet provided the evidence
Today is the 28th. You have not yet done anything about it.
May we now have the evidence please, or do you propose to retract and
apologise to Annelies?

Franz

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these
words:

Yes. Most of the urglers think she (Janet Barraclough, I mean) is rude.
That is because she actually
is rude Quite incredibly rude. Her outburst against Annelies was
totally
uncalled-for, as is
yours.

This twonk looks like our ickle troll again. The Brian Watson being
impersonated wouldn't write a post like that.

Actually I did. I got an e- from Tony Anson questioning whether it was
really me too and I'm sending him a copy of this to confirm it.

The reason I did is because I am firmly of the opinion that Annelies (who
chose to follow up his/her own posting a day later in a pretty
confrontational way) and lerato1uk are one and the same troll.

Both posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk and the styles are REMARKABLY
similar - post something innocent then follow up with something barbed.

In future I will be a good little newsgroup poster and simply killfile the
****(s).

:-))

--
Brian
"Stuck down a hole, in the fog, in the middle of the night, with an owl."

"Jaques d'Alltrades" wrote in message
...
The message
from "Franz Heymann" contains these
words:

Yes. Most of the urglers think she (Janet Barraclough, I mean) is rude.
That is because she actually
is rude Quite incredibly rude. Her outburst against Annelies was
totally
uncalled-for, as is
yours.

This twonk looks like our ickle troll again. The Brian Watson being
impersonated wouldn't write a post like that.

Actually I did. I got an e- from Tony Anson questioning whether it was
really me too and I'm sending him a copy of this to confirm it.

The reason I did is because I am firmly of the opinion that Annelies (who
chose to follow up his/her own posting a day later in a pretty
confrontational way) and lerato1uk are one and the same troll.

Both posted via www.GardenBanter.co.uk and the styles are REMARKABLY
similar - post something innocent then follow up with something barbed.

In future I will be a good little newsgroup poster and simply killfile the
****(s).

:-))

--
Brian
"Stuck down a hole, in the fog, in the middle of the night, with an owl."

"Brian Watson" wrote in message
...

"Janet Baraclough .." wrote in
message ...

When I replied, she started a new thread in which to play the injured
innocent,(common troll tactic).

Third, she played the "I'm leaving" card..another troll habit which
usually means " I'm just slipping into another posting ID.

Martin, for example.

What makes you say that?

[snip]

Franz

"Judith Lea" wrote in message
...
In article , Franz Heymann
writes

Annelies,
Please do not unsubscribe. The readers of this ng are not at all like
Janet. She is unique,

I agree she is unique in that she is enormously kind and helpful and
it's not fair Franz to portray her as anything else just because she
tells it as it is.

In this instance, she did not. She shot her mouth off.

Franz