Xref: kermit uk.rec.gardening:182398

Sacha6/1/04 4:16

snip

I don't know if Ray used such lighting in Upshire but will check later.
snip

Here's what Ray is dictating to me about tomato growing:

"I give the methods during the 50s and 60s because these most closely
replicate what amateur growers can use now.

In the 50s and 60s, the method of growing tomatoes commercially in the Lea
Valley (the largest area of tomato growers in the country then) was to sow
the seed around 15 November, 200 seeds to the seed tray in John Innes No 3
(IIRC). The seeds were forced to germinate quickly by using bottom heat -
NO supplementary lighting back then.
These were then pricked out at the seedling stage into a 3" clay pot and
this would be accomplished before the Christmas break.
Once fully growing, tomatoes would be given a regular high potash feed and
stood out in the green house in their final places in the last few days in
January. They would stand in their pots in dibbed holes and not planted
until at least one third of the first truss flowers were showing colour.
They would still be given a regular high potash feed but I must emphasise
that they are NOT planted out until at least a third of the first truss is
showing colour.
The reason for taking them out of the prop house and standing them in their
pots in dibbed holes was to give them space and *stop* them fighting for
light.

We would try to maintain a 60F temp. regime though it probably went to 55F
at night until much more modern heating was introduced. On some nurseries,
they would expect to see the first red tomatoes by the end of March.
The varieties we grew were Potentate or Baby Lea and then in the 60s F1
hybrids, Euro Cross and Shirley.

If you're lucky enough to have supplementary lighting, the recommended one
is mercury vapour but I must state that the tomatoes do need at least 8
hours darkness. There are 2 ways of using supplementary lighting; that is
to use it on dull days or to increase the day length at the beginning and
end of the day by an hour or two.
Now, we don't use supplementary lighting for the few plants we grow here, we
don't plant until January and we keep them at a lower temperature than when
I was growing commercially, especially in dull weather. I should think the
dull weather temp. is around 50F.
If you're going to use e.g. Levington's compost with a high nitrogen
content, the plants will be less controllable in terms of growth than they
would be in a John Innes compost. Once you water Levingtons, it's wet and
stays wet for some time so the plants grow fast. If you're growing in the
present amateur way, which is similar to the old fashioned commercial way,
you're probably better off using John Innes."
--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the 'x' to email me)

The message
from Anne Jackson contains these words:


I have a redundant sunbed in the attic. Could the light problem be
overcome,
if I was to rig that up and bypass the automatic time control?

--
AnneJ
ICQ #:- 119531282

I`d keep the time controller on there and use it as a top up to natural
light. Some of those sunbeds are quite powerful!!!!!!

Interesting idea tho.......


/me starts to scour the second hand ads.

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Here's what Ray is dictating to me about tomato growing:

Most interesting. I may start my seeds a little earlier this year.

| We would try to maintain a 60F temp. regime though it probably went to 55F
| at night until much more modern heating was introduced. On some nurseries,
| they would expect to see the first red tomatoes by the end of March.

So warm but not modern house temperatures.

| If you're going to use e.g. Levington's compost with a high nitrogen
| content, the plants will be less controllable in terms of growth than they
| would be in a John Innes compost. Once you water Levingtons, it's wet and
| stays wet for some time so the plants grow fast. If you're growing in the
| present amateur way, which is similar to the old fashioned commercial way,
| you're probably better off using John Innes."

Ah. So growth was controlled in other ways than temperature as well.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from Anne Jackson contains these words:


I have a redundant sunbed in the attic. Could the light problem be
overcome,
if I was to rig that up and bypass the automatic time control?

--
AnneJ
ICQ #:- 119531282

I`d keep the time controller on there and use it as a top up to natural
light. Some of those sunbeds are quite powerful!!!!!!

Interesting idea tho.......


/me starts to scour the second hand ads.

In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Here's what Ray is dictating to me about tomato growing:

Most interesting. I may start my seeds a little earlier this year.

| We would try to maintain a 60F temp. regime though it probably went to 55F
| at night until much more modern heating was introduced. On some nurseries,
| they would expect to see the first red tomatoes by the end of March.

So warm but not modern house temperatures.

| If you're going to use e.g. Levington's compost with a high nitrogen
| content, the plants will be less controllable in terms of growth than they
| would be in a John Innes compost. Once you water Levingtons, it's wet and
| stays wet for some time so the plants grow fast. If you're growing in the
| present amateur way, which is similar to the old fashioned commercial way,
| you're probably better off using John Innes."

Ah. So growth was controlled in other ways than temperature as well.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

I wouldn't start all your seeds at once. I usually sow tomatoes and peppers (as well as things like courgettes) over a period of about 4-6 weeks. That way they don't all crop at once and you have the advantage that if one batch fails due to temperature, light, water, cat sitting on them, etc. you haven't lost everything for the season. You can also experiment as to when things grow best for your area, although this may change from year to year depending on conditions.

"Sacha" wrote in message
.. .
Sacha6/1/04 4:16

snip
The reason for taking them out of the prop house and standing them in
their
pots in dibbed holes was to give them space and *stop* them fighting for
light.



I guess this implies that saying there isn't enough light early in the
season is an over-simplification. It would be better to say that there is
just less light so for each plant to have enough, they need to be planted
further apart. I suppose this applies to a lot of other veg as well?

PS. I always forget, is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit?

--
Martin & Anna Sykes
( Remove x's when replying )
http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~sykesm

Nick Maclaren7/1/04 1:03


In article ,
Sacha writes:
|
| Here's what Ray is dictating to me about tomato growing:

Most interesting. I may start my seeds a little earlier this year.

| We would try to maintain a 60F temp. regime though it probably went to 55F
| at night until much more modern heating was introduced. On some nurseries,
| they would expect to see the first red tomatoes by the end of March.

So warm but not modern house temperatures.

| If you're going to use e.g. Levington's compost with a high nitrogen
| content, the plants will be less controllable in terms of growth than they
| would be in a John Innes compost. Once you water Levingtons, it's wet and
| stays wet for some time so the plants grow fast. If you're growing in the
| present amateur way, which is similar to the old fashioned commercial way,
| you're probably better off using John Innes."

Ah. So growth was controlled in other ways than temperature as well.


Yes, the points you pick out illustrate why Ray sent this post in this
fashion. How they grew toms 'back then' is much more akin to what modern,
amateur growers can achieve without considerable extra light and a lot more
heat
His family grew them to sell on as plants and to sell the fruits, too. They
also grew lettuces and cucumbers.

--

Sacha
(remove the 'x' to email me)

Martin Sykes7/1/04 1:49
om

"Sacha" wrote in message
.. .
Sacha6/1/04 4:16

snip
The reason for taking them out of the prop house and standing them in
their
pots in dibbed holes was to give them space and *stop* them fighting for
light.



I guess this implies that saying there isn't enough light early in the
season is an over-simplification. It would be better to say that there is
just less light so for each plant to have enough, they need to be planted
further apart. I suppose this applies to a lot of other veg as well?

Yes, as Ray was dictating that to me, it made me wonder if some amateur
growers are keeping their own plants too crowded. That *would* make them
fight for light and become weedy.

PS. I always forget, is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit?

It's a fruit - almost the only one I like. ;-)

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the 'x' to email me)

The message
from Anne Jackson contains these words:

I have a redundant sunbed in the attic. Could the light problem be
overcome,
if I was to rig that up and bypass the automatic time control?

If you substituted daylight bulbs/tubes, I expect so. What are you
thinking of growing? Cacti? Olives? Merulas?

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

The message
from Anne Jackson contains these words:

I have a redundant sunbed in the attic. Could the light problem be
overcome,
if I was to rig that up and bypass the automatic time control?

If you substituted daylight bulbs/tubes, I expect so. What are you
thinking of growing? Cacti? Olives? Merulas?

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

In article ,
"Martin Sykes" writes:
|
| I guess this implies that saying there isn't enough light early in the
| season is an over-simplification. It would be better to say that there is
| just less light so for each plant to have enough, they need to be planted
| further apart. I suppose this applies to a lot of other veg as well?

Yes, no and yes, respectively. Planting them further apart is NOT
enough - you must also not let them grow too fast. Normal modern
house temperatures are too high, for a start.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

The message
from "Martin Sykes" contains
these words:

PS. I always forget, is a tomato a vegetable or a fruit?

You'll have to ask the EC.

Apparently, carrots are now fruit.....

--
Rusty
Open the creaking gate to make a horrid.squeak, then lower the foobar.
http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hi-fi/

In article ,
"Martin Sykes" writes:
|
| I guess this implies that saying there isn't enough light early in the
| season is an over-simplification. It would be better to say that there is
| just less light so for each plant to have enough, they need to be planted
| further apart. I suppose this applies to a lot of other veg as well?

Yes, no and yes, respectively. Planting them further apart is NOT
enough - you must also not let them grow too fast. Normal modern
house temperatures are too high, for a start.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

In article ,
"Martin Sykes" writes:
|
| I guess this implies that saying there isn't enough light early in the
| season is an over-simplification. It would be better to say that there is
| just less light so for each plant to have enough, they need to be planted
| further apart. I suppose this applies to a lot of other veg as well?

Yes, no and yes, respectively. Planting them further apart is NOT
enough - you must also not let them grow too fast. Normal modern
house temperatures are too high, for a start.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.