Sacha wrote in message .uk...
Mike Lyle22/4/04 5:20

Sacha wrote in message
.uk...
Kay Easton21/4/04 7:26

In article , Sacha
writes
Jane Ransom21/4/04 4:06


Oh certainly. But the letter H is the only letter of the alphabet that has
its own spelling and it is 'aitch' not 'Haitch'. ;-)

But 'haitch' is a regional thing, isn't it? West Midlands dialects. (you
must have heard a lot of it in your younger days!) Rather like 'ain't'.
And like 'It were' around here.


I don't remember it from my younger days but we didn't get out much. ;-)
To me, this is a fairly modern curse and seems to be all around us......

"Haitch" is pretty well the norm in Wales, even among highly-educated
speakers.

I think Kay must be right and it's regional. But to me, it's a new and I'm
sorry, yes, irritating habit.

And, by the way, some of the other letters do have
spellings: we have "em" and "en", as well as "zed", but I suppose
"double-u" is cheating!

Mike.

But look at how they appear in the dictionary. Go to the letter A and you
will see 'Aitch' standing alone as "the eighth letter of the alphabet (H,h.)
You will then go to Z and see it written as "Z (zed.....) got to 'M' (m,
em) etc.
IOW, only 'H' has a spelling, the others do not appear under a different
initial letter. H does not appear as Haitch - in my Collins the entries
under 'h' jump from 'hairst' to 'haith' to 'haji'. Sorry - but H is the
only letter with its own spelling rather than pronunciation aid.
Has it stopped raining yet? ;-)

In the English-language game, never say "never"! Try Collins
21st-Century. The difference in initial letter is a red herring. The
letters of the Greek and other alphabets have names beginning with the
letter in question: no problem. And I don't recall saying it was
acceptable to write "haitch" for "aitch", and I don't think anybody
else did.

Nonetheless, the rules of lexicography are clear: the Oxford English
Dictionary almost certainly now includes "haitch", though perhaps with
a warning that it's non-standard. I can't check, as it's only
available on line at a price I can't afford. (Interestingly, the first
edition uses the spelling "aitch" in explanation, but hadn't found an
example of it, so the only full entry is for the spelling "ache".)

MIke.

On 23 Apr 2004 02:14:58 -0700, (Mike Lyle)
wrote:


Nonetheless, the rules of lexicography are clear: the Oxford English
Dictionary almost certainly now includes "haitch", though perhaps with
a warning that it's non-standard. I can't check, as it's only
available on line at a price I can't afford. (Interestingly, the first
edition uses the spelling "aitch" in explanation, but hadn't found an
example of it, so the only full entry is for the spelling "ache".)

Luckily Franz has my copy of OED on a CD, that would no longer run on
my PC when I upgraded to WinXP.

Franz?

Mike Lyle23/4/04 10:14

Sacha wrote in message
.uk...
Mike Lyle22/4/04 5:20

Sacha wrote in message
.uk...
Kay Easton21/4/04 7:26

In article , Sacha
writes
Jane Ransom21/4/04 4:06


Oh certainly. But the letter H is the only letter of the alphabet that
has
its own spelling and it is 'aitch' not 'Haitch'. ;-)

But 'haitch' is a regional thing, isn't it? West Midlands dialects. (you
must have heard a lot of it in your younger days!) Rather like 'ain't'.
And like 'It were' around here.


I don't remember it from my younger days but we didn't get out much. ;-)
To me, this is a fairly modern curse and seems to be all around us......

"Haitch" is pretty well the norm in Wales, even among highly-educated
speakers.

I think Kay must be right and it's regional. But to me, it's a new and I'm
sorry, yes, irritating habit.

And, by the way, some of the other letters do have
spellings: we have "em" and "en", as well as "zed", but I suppose
"double-u" is cheating!

Mike.

But look at how they appear in the dictionary. Go to the letter A and you
will see 'Aitch' standing alone as "the eighth letter of the alphabet (H,h.)
You will then go to Z and see it written as "Z (zed.....) got to 'M' (m,
em) etc.
IOW, only 'H' has a spelling, the others do not appear under a different
initial letter. H does not appear as Haitch - in my Collins the entries
under 'h' jump from 'hairst' to 'haith' to 'haji'. Sorry - but H is the
only letter with its own spelling rather than pronunciation aid.
Has it stopped raining yet? ;-)

In the English-language game, never say "never"! Try Collins
21st-Century. The difference in initial letter is a red herring. The
letters of the Greek and other alphabets have names beginning with the
letter in question: no problem. And I don't recall saying it was
acceptable to write "haitch" for "aitch", and I don't think anybody
else did.

This started, or I thought it did before my headache started, too, with
'moot' versus 'mute' and 'bated' versus 'baited'. It's my fault for
'baiting' my hook with a red herring and waiting with 'bated breath' for the
outcome. ;-)

Nonetheless, the rules of lexicography are clear: the Oxford English
Dictionary almost certainly now includes "haitch", though perhaps with
a warning that it's non-standard. I can't check, as it's only
available on line at a price I can't afford. (Interestingly, the first
edition uses the spelling "aitch" in explanation, but hadn't found an
example of it, so the only full entry is for the spelling "ache".)

MIke.

That's it - I'm moving to Greece - and I definitely do feel old. ;-)
My shorter OED was published in 1983 and doesn't have 'haitch'. My
dictionary of English Etymology has neither. The latter has the 'aitch-bone'
but says it comes from the word 'nache' - old French and even older Latin.
--

Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)

On Fri, 23 Apr 2004 11:34:29 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

That's it - I'm moving to Greece - and I definitely do feel old. ;-)
My shorter OED was published in 1983 and doesn't have 'haitch'. My
dictionary of English Etymology has neither. The latter has the 'aitch-bone'
but says it comes from the word 'nache' - old French and even older Latin.

Watch out for old Greeks bearing geeky gifts

Jaques d'Alltrades wrote in message ...
The message
from (Mike Lyle) contains these words:

But isn't this just a perfect example of what a pig's ear we've made
of things? Rabbits aren't indigenous to these islands, having been
introduced by either the Romans or the Normans (sorry, I forget which)
as a highly valuable "crop" species; [...]

The Romans introduced them, along with ground elder, big snails and a
lot of other things, and the Normans enclosed areas to farm rabbits.

I don't know what changed things, but I suspect that enough escaped to
lower the value of kept rabbits to the uneconomic and unnecessary.

As usual, it was a combination of farming practices and employment and
leisure patterns, rather than the behaviour of the animals themselves.

Even in my native Australia, the buns could have been turned to profit
instead of causing a total panic with all its attendant nasties such
as the deliberate introduction of myxomatosis.

That's a moot point which I wouldn't want to argue unless I knew a lot
more about the economics of the matter.

Australia was, and indeed is, an economy with contradictory features
-- exhibiting both high wages and under-employment, heavily populated
towns and (on some possible measures) rural underpopulation. Land use
in the countryside is particularly anomalous.

Mike.

Nah. that's more to do with inadequacies of the 11 plus.
Why theres nowt wrang with the eleven plus hinny.Yer divvent knaa what yer
talkin aboot there pet.
Grammar schools an Tech schools--why they browt us the revolution that folks
call The Eighties they did hinny.
All these comprehensives where lads sit near lasses and that--thats nee
good.Standards have dropped like a stone imo.
My moose deed on the day I sat the 11+ so ar didn`t dee very well.Mind--I
got a late late pass after a poor lad got ran over by a double decker--an I
took his place at the technical high school fer boys in 1969.
den
bees and eees people say as well.
"Kay Easton" wrote in message
...
In article , Jane Ransom
writes
In article , Kay Easton
writes

Now if only people would use 'fazed' not 'phased' and 'bated' rather
than 'baited' breath ...

Thank you, Kay )
I really thought it was baited - as in a trap waiting to go
off!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

same root as 'abated' AFAIK - ie paused - holding your breath in
anticipation

I always knew there must have been a reason I failed the 11+ twice (

Nah. that's more to do with inadequacies of the 11 plus.


--
Kay Easton

Edward's earthworm page:
http://www.scarboro.demon.co.uk/edward/index.htm