David Rance wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2004, Howard Neil wrote:

Er, no. When they are in flower is just when you *shouldn't* spray!

The books that I have (including RHS ones) all advise that the time to
spray grapes against botrytis is when they are in flower. Mind you,
they are a little old and advise spraying with fungicides that are no
longer available and make no mention of Bordeaux mixture. What is your
reason for advising against it, please?


"Spray the vines with the above mixture (Bordeaux Mixture, Dithane and
Maxicrop) every two weeks until flowering when all spraying must cease."
- Growing Grapes in Britain by Gillian Pearkes.

Thanks. I re-checked my book and they all refer to spraying with Benlate
at flowering. From what you are saying, I presume that I have now missed
the opportunity to spray with Bordeaux mixture and will have to wait
till next winter.

--
Howard Neil

On Sat, 8 May 2004, Howard Neil wrote:

Instead there seems to be greater emphasis on cleanliness of the
soil and the vine, i.e. don't leave any dead leaves around. My advice
would be to remove the polytunnel when the grapes are approaching
ripeness because it is then that they are most prone to botrytis
developing.

This is not an option. The polytunnel is 65ft x 17ft and the poly is
correctly stretched and anchored under the ground. There would also be
an issue with other plants in the polytunnel.

Then I wish you luck! A polytunnel is not the ideal situation for
growing grapes needing, as they do, fresh air to circulate around them.
Vines have been grown under glass in Britain very successfully, but
there are always ventilators to allow fresh air to circulate freely.

If you have greater success this year do let me know as I would be very
interested.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Internet: | writing from |
| Fidonet: David Rance 2:252/110 | Caversham, |
| BBS: telnet://mesnil.demon.co.uk | Reading, UK |
+-------------------------------------------------------+

On Sat, 08 May 2004 12:13:34 +0100, Sacha
wrote:

David Rance8/5/04 10:05
$JrilaAaLKnAFwEZ @mesnil.demon.co.uk

snip

"Spray the vines with the above mixture (Bordeaux Mixture, Dithane and
Maxicrop) every two weeks until flowering when all spraying must cease."
- Growing Grapes in Britain by Gillian Pearkes.

Totally irrelevant to the subject but she was the sister of our Rector!
In the Lots we saw vineyards growing rose bushes at the end of each row of
vines as they give the earliest hint of problems. But there, everything was
covered in a bright blue mixture of some sort ?colldodial copper?

Copper Sulphate?

This
would have been around July or August, IIRC.

Near Treguier, in Brittany, about 10 years ago, a young French couple
had a wonderful garden full of rare vegetables, sadly not enough
people visited it and selling the vegetables alone didn't produce
enough income, so they went bust.

On Sat, 8 May 2004, Sacha wrote:

"Spray the vines with the above mixture (Bordeaux Mixture, Dithane and
Maxicrop) every two weeks until flowering when all spraying must cease."
- Growing Grapes in Britain by Gillian Pearkes.

Totally irrelevant to the subject but she was the sister of our Rector!

I knew she lived down in the West Country but I wasn't exactly sure
where. When I first started growing vines (back in the 1970s) her book
was just about the only one in English on vine growing. She was among
the pioneers of the new wave of viticulturists and did valuable
experimental work. Most of her work is still relevant though the types
of vine she recommends are a bit out of date simply because new
varieties are now available.

In the Lots we saw vineyards growing rose bushes at the end of each row of
vines as they give the earliest hint of problems. But there, everything was
covered in a bright blue mixture of some sort ?colldodial copper? This
would have been around July or August, IIRC.

Many French vineyards have roses growing at the end of each row for the
very reason you mention. I've seen it down in Burgundy. The bright blue
mixture was undoubtedly some form of Bordeaux mixture.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Internet: | writing from |
| Fidonet: David Rance 2:252/110 | Caversham, |
| BBS: telnet://mesnil.demon.co.uk | Reading, UK |
+-------------------------------------------------------+

On Sat, 8 May 2004, Howard Neil wrote:

Thanks. I re-checked my book and they all refer to spraying with
Benlate at flowering. From what you are saying, I presume that I have
now missed the opportunity to spray with Bordeaux mixture and will have
to wait till next winter.

Not at all. Wait until flowering is over and then you must continue
spraying every ten to fourteen days until about a fortnight before the
grapes are ready for picking. You'll need to do this because the powdery
and downy mildews can strike at any time.

--
+-------------------------------------------------------+
| Internet: | writing from |
| Fidonet: David Rance 2:252/110 | Caversham, |
| BBS: telnet://mesnil.demon.co.uk | Reading, UK |
+-------------------------------------------------------+

David Rance wrote:
On Sat, 8 May 2004, Howard Neil wrote:

Thanks. I re-checked my book and they all refer to spraying with
Benlate at flowering. From what you are saying, I presume that I have
now missed the opportunity to spray with Bordeaux mixture and will
have to wait till next winter.


Not at all. Wait until flowering is over and then you must continue
spraying every ten to fourteen days until about a fortnight before the
grapes are ready for picking. You'll need to do this because the powdery
and downy mildews can strike at any time.


Understood now.

I have also just found a suggested fungicide called carbendazim. The
Pesticides Safety Directorate still show this as licensed so I have
fired off a couple of e-mails to producing companies to find out about
availability.

--
Howard Neil

David Rance wrote:

On Sat, 8 May 2004, Howard Neil wrote:

Instead there seems to be greater emphasis on cleanliness of the
soil and the vine, i.e. don't leave any dead leaves around. My
advice would be to remove the polytunnel when the grapes are
approaching ripeness because it is then that they are most prone to
botrytis developing.


This is not an option. The polytunnel is 65ft x 17ft and the poly is
correctly stretched and anchored under the ground. There would also be
an issue with other plants in the polytunnel.


Then I wish you luck! A polytunnel is not the ideal situation for
growing grapes needing, as they do, fresh air to circulate around them.
Vines have been grown under glass in Britain very successfully, but
there are always ventilators to allow fresh air to circulate freely.

If you have greater success this year do let me know as I would be very
interested.

Will do.

--
Howard Neil

My old "Bible" recommends dusting with sulphur for downy mildew on vines.
I would think if you could leave both ends of the poly tunnel open all the
time and if you could put a fan about 1/3rd of the way down the house and
fit a timer to bring it on for 15 mins every hour to prevent a build up of
stagnant air then you could well avoid the problem.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

David Hill wrote:
My old "Bible" recommends dusting with sulphur for downy mildew on vines.
I would think if you could leave both ends of the poly tunnel open all the
time and if you could put a fan about 1/3rd of the way down the house and
fit a timer to bring it on for 15 mins every hour to prevent a build up of
stagnant air then you could well avoid the problem.


I do leave both ends open all the time when the weather is warm enough.
The idea of the fan is interesting. Electricity supply will be difficult
but the problems are not insurmountable. I already have a spare fan that
could be used.

--
Howard Neil

On Sat, 8 May 2004 10:20:49 +0100, David Rance =
g.uk said:

] On Sat, 8 May 2004, David Rance wrote:
]=20
] In fact, I have my doubts as to whether Bordeaux Mixture will be of any=
=20
] use with botrytis (grey mould).
]=20
] Hmmm, I've just checked in one of my German books on viticulture=20
] (Weinbau by Vogt & G=F6tz, 1979) - "Copper, and many of the hitherto=20
] organic, fungicides are not effective or, at least, not completely=20
] effective, against botrytis." Of course, Bordeaux Mixture is based on=20
] copper.
]=20

David, none the less it is what they treat with, AFAIK, in Bordeaux...

-E

--=20
Emery Davis
You can reply to
by removing the well known companies

If you go abroad on holiday and go somewhere they grow grapes in small
vineyards (Such as in Malta), then the local farmers suppliers will have
fungicides in smallish quantities and at very reasonable prices.
I picked up a very good one, (wide spectrum) this year, 250ml for around the
equivalent of £7.00 sterling, Instructions in Italian and English, and you
apply at 1ml per 5 litres of water.
Should be no problem as it is sourced within the EU.

--
David Hill
Abacus nurseries
www.abacus-nurseries.co.uk

David Rance8/5/04 12:31

On Sat, 8 May 2004, Sacha wrote:

"Spray the vines with the above mixture (Bordeaux Mixture, Dithane and
Maxicrop) every two weeks until flowering when all spraying must cease."
- Growing Grapes in Britain by Gillian Pearkes.

Totally irrelevant to the subject but she was the sister of our Rector!

I knew she lived down in the West Country but I wasn't exactly sure
where. When I first started growing vines (back in the 1970s) her book
was just about the only one in English on vine growing. She was among
the pioneers of the new wave of viticulturists and did valuable
experimental work. Most of her work is still relevant though the types
of vine she recommends are a bit out of date simply because new
varieties are now available.

Edward Hyams, who brought vines back into English life (for wine growing)
lived in this house as its first lay owner. Unhappily, his efforts here seem
to have ended in disaster. Maybe because this mild climate affects vines as
it does roses? That said, Sharpham on the River Dart is doing well with
wine production.

In the Lots we saw vineyards growing rose bushes at the end of each row of
vines as they give the earliest hint of problems. But there, everything was
covered in a bright blue mixture of some sort ?colldodial copper? This
would have been around July or August, IIRC.

Many French vineyards have roses growing at the end of each row for the
very reason you mention. I've seen it down in Burgundy. The bright blue
mixture was undoubtedly some form of Bordeaux mixture.

Sounds right.

--

Sacha
(remove the weeds to email me)

Copper oxalate is in some fungicides. It has a similar blue to the sulphate.

Edwin.
---------



Sacha wrote:
...
Totally irrelevant to the subject but she was the sister of our Rector!
In the Lots we saw vineyards growing rose bushes at the end of each row of
vines as they give the earliest hint of problems. But there, everything was
covered in a bright blue mixture of some sort ?colldodial copper? This
would have been around July or August, IIRC.
....