"shazzbat" wrote in message

: Very probably. If you go with a car and trailer there won't be a problem,
: they assume you're a householder dumping your own stuff. If you turn up in
a
: van/pickup,they start to get sniffy, especially if it's a site run by
: contractors as opposed to staffed by council employees. And of course you
: could say it was from your own garden even if it was trade and you'd
: probably get away with it, but on the 577th visit they're definitely going
: to be suspicious. Most sites I have seen have signs saying "no trade
waste"
: Then it's off to the commercial waste site to pay the steep charges plus
: landfill tax. Of course like all "environmental" legislation, this has
done
: the environment more harm than good, since the cowboys are now more
inclined
: to "fly tip" than before, but they're not going to let that put them off.
:

The recycling ones do not allow vans, car and trailer yes and only if the
waste is from your own house, having said that, you can tip trade waste at
the recycling site if you know the bloke in charge, he will turn a blind eye
if you offer him a drink

Fly tipping has become a big problem, a mate of mine works for a council
contractor and all they do all day everyday is collect fly tipped material
around the county, as soon as they clear one lot its replaced within hours
sometimes.

"Dermuid" wrote in message
news:ltnDc.857$_R3.180@newsfe5-win...

"Janet Baraclough" wrote in message

: What skills do you think he might need?
:
: As an absolute minimum, the ability to recognise common weeds, know how
: to control them, and distinguish them from the annuals the client just
: planted out. The ability to recognise common shrubs plants and trees,
: and care for them appropriately, at all times of year. (So that he
: doesn't winter-prune large azaleas hamamelis or camellia as if they were
: buddliea, or lime the rhododendrons).
:

This is handy to know, I would also add that you need to know about soil
types for planting and know what conditions are best for the plants before
planting to grow.


:
: : Make sure you have some good insurance too in case you manage to
: : accidentally damage someones property.
: :
:
: How much is business insurance likely to cost ? only you mention there
are
: plenty of people who will take on small maintainence jobs for not much
: money, who are these people who can afford to work for "not much
money".
:
: They are the kind of anonymous feckless unskilled door-knockers who
: have no overheads, and offer to fell your tree on the cheap. Having no
: skills or insurance, if the said tree falls onto an overhead service
: cable, car or conservatory, the client is left with an enormous bill and
: no come-back.
:

I have seen the type of unskilled worker you speak of but they rarely work
out cheap, the plan is to get onto your property so they offer to do a job
very cheaply, a total bargain, so cheap that you would have to be stark
raving mad to decline such an offer, once on your property they will cause
damage or invent problems and tell you they need doing, loose tiles on the
roof is the favourite, then they offer to repair the damage they luckily
discovered, good job we were here and all that, by the time they finish
with
your property, long story etc you know what I mean, this is why you should
never accept a low quote.


I cannot agree with the last statement. Someone who is just starting out in
business and who needs recommendations might well offer a cheap quote simply
to get the business up and running.

The message 9SmDc.846$_R3.700@newsfe5-win
from "Dermuid" contains these words:


"shazzbat" wrote in message
...
:
:
: By the way, you are a registered waste carrier I take it?
: Steve
:
:

We are talking about non hazardous plain old garden waste here which anyone
can take to a landfill or refuse station, no licence required.

Didn't you do *any* homework before setting yourself up as a gardening
"business"?

Janet.

The message 9SmDc.846$_R3.700@newsfe5-win
from "Dermuid" contains these words:


"shazzbat" wrote in message
...
:
:
: By the way, you are a registered waste carrier I take it?
: Steve
:
:

We are talking about non hazardous plain old garden waste here which anyone
can take to a landfill or refuse station, no licence required.

Didn't you do *any* homework before setting yourself up as a gardening
"business"?

Janet.

"Janet Baraclough.." wrote in message
...
: The message 9SmDc.846$_R3.700@newsfe5-win
: from "Dermuid" contains these words:
:
:
: "shazzbat" wrote in message
: ...
: :
: :
: : By the way, you are a registered waste carrier I take it?
: : Steve
: :
: :
:
: We are talking about non hazardous plain old garden waste here which
anyone
: can take to a landfill or refuse station, no licence required.
:
: Didn't you do *any* homework before setting yourself up as a gardening
: "business"?
:
: Janet.
:

Of course I did, as far as I am concerned waste disposal has nothing to do
with gardening so I no longer accept it, I suppose you will tell me now that
I am not a gardener unless I am registered to transport waste.

On Fri, 25 Jun 2004 22:58:27 GMT, Rotax100uk
wrote:

I am now starting my own gardening business at the age of 20 and i would
like to know if anyone here has any advice which you think i should
need.

Like any new business venture it is going to take time and hard work
to get things going ....
I'm in my 50's and started up 3 years ago with an ad. in local paper
- just a few lines in classified section. Garden maintenance - covers
all sorts of things tho I did have a bit of experience with my own
gardens . Got all sorts of enquiries and visied them all . I've found
plenty of people will pay at least £12 ph for general maintenance and
older people too ....... there are many with money who just need some
muscle and are happy to advise you as you go along - a good way of
learning. The younger set ( working 12 hr a day just don't have the
time but have the money ) they just want regularly kept neat
gardens.
Started mainly grass / hedge cutting , pruning , weeding , fence &
shed painting .. anything to build up and get things going. Always
did a good + tidy job plenty of advice etc. Soon established list of
regular clients and thro word of mouth obtained further work. Have put
my price up a couple of times since I started and only lost a couple
of clients so must be doing something right !

Tips :-

If you don't have a chainsaw get one and learn how to use it safely !
Plenty of lighter work on smaller trees undercutting ( pardon pun )
tree surgeons much higher rates'

Do smaller fencing jobs erect+ repair etc. Fencers charge well over
odds ...
Same with turfing + laying patios - learn how to do it .
Also spraying weeds
..
Quote seperately for anything out of the normal garden maintenance
work.

As you gain clients trust you will be able to advise (sell ) your
ideas regarding planting / landscaping etc. and supply materials -
an extra source of income..

Put business cards thro doors of houses on new developments - many
need help with establishing new gardens. Quote cheaply to get one
under your belt that you can use for reference etc.

Try to get a client base near together so you reduce costs + save
time.

Last but not least DO YOUR HOMEWORK the internet and this NG in
particular is a wealthy source of info. Just ask .... one thing about
gardeners is they love to share their knowledge.

As you go along and gain more experience you will be more comfortable
in dealing with people and it will generate more business.
You are young and if you are enthusiastic and willing enough you will
make it .................. there's plenty of work out there - I just
wish I was younger !

Good Luck

Rotax100uk wrote in
s.com:

I have been taking on work which at the moment is with retired women
who cant look after their own gardens, i have been to price jobs with
trouble as to how long a job will take me to complete. I have been
charging £10 per hour which most of the retired people are having
trouble with because of there pensions.

As you can see what problem i am faced with, i was just wondering if
anyone hear can advice me what to do with my pricing?

I feel as if i am charging people a high rate of £10 per hour, but i
am not getting any profit out of this


Your time has a value. You have no duty to work for anyone who cannot
afford to pay you properly, and there are people out there who
can afford to.

In my own business (not in gardening), I find that the people who grouch
about prices are not always the people who are actually hard up for
cash!

Be up front about your costs and experience and be prepared to walk away
if the customer can't or won't agree to pay you to get the job done
properly, cover your costs and leave you with enough to eat on! It's
really hard, but you need to be able to do it.

If you give people a 'job price' rather than a cost per hour, it's
easier for them to see exactly how much they will have to pay, (though
you do take a bit of a risk if it takes longer than expected.)

A tenner an hour seems good value to me: I'd pay that for hedgecutting
if I could find anyone who was interested!

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

"Victoria Clare" wrote in message
. 240.12...
Rotax100uk wrote in
s.com:

I have been taking on work which at the moment is with retired women
who cant look after their own gardens, i have been to price jobs with
trouble as to how long a job will take me to complete. I have been
charging £10 per hour which most of the retired people are having
trouble with because of there pensions.

As you can see what problem i am faced with, i was just wondering if
anyone hear can advice me what to do with my pricing?

I feel as if i am charging people a high rate of £10 per hour, but i
am not getting any profit out of this

I can emphasise with the sense of charging a high rate. It suggests an
inclination to think beyond the 'what's in it for me' attitude. It can seem
like crazy money, but then you need to realise that there are professions
where mere apprentises get paid far, far more.



Your time has a value. You have no duty to work for anyone who cannot
afford to pay you properly, and there are people out there who
can afford to.

Very true, but for someone with an inate sense of duty this can be the
primary hurdle.

In my own business (not in gardening), I find that the people who grouch
about prices are not always the people who are actually hard up for
cash!

Be up front about your costs and experience

Actually, although others seem to agree, I'm not so sure.
I've never once got a client on the basis of my qualifications. I've never
being asked for proof of them. The only thing I have ever being asked for is
for proof of public libility innsurance (semploy)
What I've found over the years is that irrespective of what I've stated I
can do / am qualified at, people tend to make presumptions based on THEIR
limitations. Not MINE.
In terms of public perception of abilities, there seems to be a problem with
being the person who pops in and does the usual general maintenance
gardening jobs.
For this reason, if jo public's readiness to presume incompetance on the OP,
then is there really a need to confirm it?
And if public perception is as unassailable as I have often found it to be,
what difference will it make no matter how brilliant the OP might be?
Albeit that I am in the process of wrapping things up, I'm curious as to
whether people (jo public) want someone to be up front about their
experience... or lack there of. .. as has being suggested.
The other question is... do you (jo public) prefer a fixed price, or to be
charged by the hour?

and be prepared to walk away
if the customer can't or won't agree to pay you to get the job done
properly, cover your costs and leave you with enough to eat on!

And pay income Tax.
Like many others, my accomodation rent is more than my tax free allowence,
therefore, every penny earned after that is taxable. It would be no use for
me to say I haven't made any money because by my mere survival after rent,
.... I have demontrated a taxable income.

It's
really hard, but you need to be able to do it.

If you give people a 'job price' rather than a cost per hour, it's
easier for them to see exactly how much they will have to pay, (though
you do take a bit of a risk if it takes longer than expected.)

But sometimes they do not want to pay 'job price', because they don't want
to pay for any potential profit that might be gained.

More than that.
I once had a client who wanted a fixed weekly rate for maintainance. On
agreement, he asked would he be happy with his garden. I replied yes, but
only if he was already content, as the level of maintainance on offer would
be a current standards.
Later in the year he asked tried wiggling out of payment on the grounds that
he wanted major tree surgery carried out on his large tulip tree and as I
han't seemed prepare to do so out of the tenner per week, then he wasn't
happy. Ergo he wasn't happy with his garden and therefore owed me nowt.
Someone else tried to say they weren't happy with their garden because of a
plant someone else had in their own garden was offending the view, and as I
had promised she would be happy with the garden, but she now wasn't because
of the offending neighbours small bedding begonias... again the same wiggle.

Get yourself a stop watch. Make a point of showing it off to your clients...
that worked wonders for me once.
If you are engaging in waste disposal, make sure to charge for you time to
do so and re-coop any other expenses incurred. Like Victria said,
You have no duty to work for anyone who cannot
afford to pay you properly

Patrick

If you give people a 'job price' rather than a cost per hour, it's
easier for them to see exactly how much they will have to pay, (though
you do take a bit of a risk if it takes longer than expected.)

But sometimes they do not want to pay 'job price', because they don't want
to pay for any potential profit that might be gained.


I have found with new clients that for regular maintenance its best
to quote per hour - once they see what can be done in the time they
will soon know whether or not they are getting good value.
After all its all relative ( like incest ) ........ someone could
charge half the going rate but take twice as long to get the same
amount of work done as someone else.
As I said previously I have found many clients who are willing to pay
the £12 ph for 2- 3 hours a fortnight to have there gardens looking
their best . To many its a neighbours thing and can work out
profitable if you get a fair few in a small area .
Re disposing of waste - I only get involved if it is worth my while
i.e. the client is willing to pay ( Time bagging up or whatever + trip
to tip ) usually on larger clearance / tree felling jobs.

Hello All,

Rotax100uk here, i have just read through all of your very good replies and i just wanted to say thanks for all the great advice, i didnt expect as many replies like this.

Thanx again, very helpfull.

andrew wrote in
:

If you give people a 'job price' rather than a cost per hour, it's
easier for them to see exactly how much they will have to pay,
(though you do take a bit of a risk if it takes longer than
expected.)

But sometimes they do not want to pay 'job price', because they don't
want to pay for any potential profit that might be gained.


I have found with new clients that for regular maintenance its best
to quote per hour

I bow to your experience. In my field, people want to know 'how much to
get the job done' but I largely sell to businesses.

Personally, I always ask for a 'job price' if I'm hiring someone for
building or gardening work. It helps me budget.

Victoria
--
gardening on a north-facing hill
in South-East Cornwall
--

"andrew" wrote in message
...



If you give people a 'job price' rather than a cost per hour, it's
easier for them to see exactly how much they will have to pay, (though
you do take a bit of a risk if it takes longer than expected.)

But sometimes they do not want to pay 'job price', because they don't
want
to pay for any potential profit that might be gained.


I have found with new clients that for regular maintenance its best
to quote per hour -

I too found this. But it took a bit of getting used too.
Prior to arriving in UK I did just about everything by price. Be that
cutting hedges, (priced at either cubic or square metre with prices ranging
according to hedge type and height)planting schemes, lawns, patios... you
name it, I'd work out a price. When the job was done and the customer
satisfied there was simply the matter of payment. At that point I cannot
reacall anyone asking; how much? How much had already being agreed before
work commenced.
The only people who I had ever known to charge per hour were cowboys whose
main aim was to drag things out, or the otherwise clueless.
On arrival to London, I adopted the same approach, but came up against a
wall.
The only way to stop me being taken advantage off, was to adopt the hour
rate. I still think it's a bad idea, both for me personally, my business and
the customer, but I guess; when in Rome...
Usually, if circumstances allow, I point out that I can either offer an
estimate, or a fixed price. But I find myself in the bizarre position of
having to outlline the differences. I point out that in monetary terms the
only difference is that I assume a risk in the case of the fixed price and
in order to make allowences for that risk, inclusive of absorbing the cost
of minor changes requested by him/her, the fixed price is around 10 to15%
more than the estimate. The estimate is based on calculations which tend to
be correct, but he/she assumes the risks (e.g. if more topsoil has to be dug
out than expected so as to reach subsoil layer for foundations/footings.),
but may just as easily turn out slightly cheaper.
The response has often being to take the 'job price', but then upon payment
time and based on their own calculations, object to the job price in favour
of the estimate.
I find borders along the lines of on sub normal intelligence. Crass
backwardness is more blunt.
They begin with "So... How much do I owe you NOW?"
There was just one occasion when, because of one thing or another, the job
price was slighly low, partly due to client changes and the client enquired
if it still stoods and naturally I have said Yes, off course. Not a lot like
him around.

Patrick

"andrew" wrote in message
...



If you give people a 'job price' rather than a cost per hour, it's
easier for them to see exactly how much they will have to pay, (though
you do take a bit of a risk if it takes longer than expected.)

But sometimes they do not want to pay 'job price', because they don't
want
to pay for any potential profit that might be gained.


I have found with new clients that for regular maintenance its best
to quote per hour -

I too found this. But it took a bit of getting used too.
Prior to arriving in UK I did just about everything by price. Be that
cutting hedges, (priced at either cubic or square metre with prices ranging
according to hedge type and height)planting schemes, lawns, patios... you
name it, I'd work out a price. When the job was done and the customer
satisfied there was simply the matter of payment. At that point I cannot
reacall anyone asking; how much? How much had already being agreed before
work commenced.
The only people who I had ever known to charge per hour were cowboys whose
main aim was to drag things out, or the otherwise clueless.
On arrival to London, I adopted the same approach, but came up against a
wall.
The only way to stop me being taken advantage off, was to adopt the hour
rate. I still think it's a bad idea, both for me personally, my business and
the customer, but I guess; when in Rome...
Usually, if circumstances allow, I point out that I can either offer an
estimate, or a fixed price. But I find myself in the bizarre position of
having to outlline the differences. I point out that in monetary terms the
only difference is that I assume a risk in the case of the fixed price and
in order to make allowences for that risk, inclusive of absorbing the cost
of minor changes requested by him/her, the fixed price is around 10 to15%
more than the estimate. The estimate is based on calculations which tend to
be correct, but he/she assumes the risks (e.g. if more topsoil has to be dug
out than expected so as to reach subsoil layer for foundations/footings.),
but may just as easily turn out slightly cheaper.
The response has often being to take the 'job price', but then upon payment
time and based on their own calculations, object to the job price in favour
of the estimate.
I find borders along the lines of on sub normal intelligence. Crass
backwardness is more blunt.
They begin with "So... How much do I owe you NOW?"
There was just one occasion when, because of one thing or another, the job
price was slighly low, partly due to client changes and the client enquired
if it still stoods and naturally I have said Yes, off course. Not a lot like
him around.

Patrick

"andrew" wrote in message
...



If you give people a 'job price' rather than a cost per hour, it's
easier for them to see exactly how much they will have to pay, (though
you do take a bit of a risk if it takes longer than expected.)

But sometimes they do not want to pay 'job price', because they don't
want
to pay for any potential profit that might be gained.


I have found with new clients that for regular maintenance its best
to quote per hour -

I too found this. But it took a bit of getting used too.
Prior to arriving in UK I did just about everything by price. Be that
cutting hedges, (priced at either cubic or square metre with prices ranging
according to hedge type and height)planting schemes, lawns, patios... you
name it, I'd work out a price. When the job was done and the customer
satisfied there was simply the matter of payment. At that point I cannot
reacall anyone asking; how much? How much had already being agreed before
work commenced.
The only people who I had ever known to charge per hour were cowboys whose
main aim was to drag things out, or the otherwise clueless.
On arrival to London, I adopted the same approach, but came up against a
wall.
The only way to stop me being taken advantage off, was to adopt the hour
rate. I still think it's a bad idea, both for me personally, my business and
the customer, but I guess; when in Rome...
Usually, if circumstances allow, I point out that I can either offer an
estimate, or a fixed price. But I find myself in the bizarre position of
having to outlline the differences. I point out that in monetary terms the
only difference is that I assume a risk in the case of the fixed price and
in order to make allowences for that risk, inclusive of absorbing the cost
of minor changes requested by him/her, the fixed price is around 10 to15%
more than the estimate. The estimate is based on calculations which tend to
be correct, but he/she assumes the risks (e.g. if more topsoil has to be dug
out than expected so as to reach subsoil layer for foundations/footings.),
but may just as easily turn out slightly cheaper.
The response has often being to take the 'job price', but then upon payment
time and based on their own calculations, object to the job price in favour
of the estimate.
I find borders along the lines of on sub normal intelligence. Crass
backwardness is more blunt.
They begin with "So... How much do I owe you NOW?"
There was just one occasion when, because of one thing or another, the job
price was slighly low, partly due to client changes and the client enquired
if it still stoods and naturally I have said Yes, off course. Not a lot like
him around.

Patrick

"andrew" wrote in message
...



If you give people a 'job price' rather than a cost per hour, it's
easier for them to see exactly how much they will have to pay, (though
you do take a bit of a risk if it takes longer than expected.)

But sometimes they do not want to pay 'job price', because they don't
want
to pay for any potential profit that might be gained.


I have found with new clients that for regular maintenance its best
to quote per hour -

I too found this. But it took a bit of getting used too.
Prior to arriving in UK I did just about everything by price. Be that
cutting hedges, (priced at either cubic or square metre with prices ranging
according to hedge type and height)planting schemes, lawns, patios... you
name it, I'd work out a price. When the job was done and the customer
satisfied there was simply the matter of payment. At that point I cannot
reacall anyone asking; how much? How much had already being agreed before
work commenced.
The only people who I had ever known to charge per hour were cowboys whose
main aim was to drag things out, or the otherwise clueless.
On arrival to London, I adopted the same approach, but came up against a
wall.
The only way to stop me being taken advantage off, was to adopt the hour
rate. I still think it's a bad idea, both for me personally, my business and
the customer, but I guess; when in Rome...
Usually, if circumstances allow, I point out that I can either offer an
estimate, or a fixed price. But I find myself in the bizarre position of
having to outlline the differences. I point out that in monetary terms the
only difference is that I assume a risk in the case of the fixed price and
in order to make allowences for that risk, inclusive of absorbing the cost
of minor changes requested by him/her, the fixed price is around 10 to15%
more than the estimate. The estimate is based on calculations which tend to
be correct, but he/she assumes the risks (e.g. if more topsoil has to be dug
out than expected so as to reach subsoil layer for foundations/footings.),
but may just as easily turn out slightly cheaper.
The response has often being to take the 'job price', but then upon payment
time and based on their own calculations, object to the job price in favour
of the estimate.
I find borders along the lines of on sub normal intelligence. Crass
backwardness is more blunt.
They begin with "So... How much do I owe you NOW?"
There was just one occasion when, because of one thing or another, the job
price was slighly low, partly due to client changes and the client enquired
if it still stoods and naturally I have said Yes, off course. Not a lot like
him around.

Patrick