On 19/7/04 20:21, in article ,
"BAC" wrote:


"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Howard Neil writes

Before you start making up your own definitions, I suggest that you have
a read of:-

http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/appendices.asp?id=744


Which gives:
-----------
Pesticide
Any substance, preparation or organism prepared or used for controlling
any pest. A pesticide product consists of one or more active substances
co-formulated with other materials. Formulated pesticides exist in many
forms, such as solid granules, powders or liquids.
-----------

That Govt. definition is not relevant to this thread because clover is
not considered to be a pest in organic gardening.

But it was by the OP, who wanted rid of it?

And needed a HERBicide. ;-))



--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

Sacha wrote:
On 19/7/04 20:21, in article ,
"BAC" wrote:


"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...

In article ,
Howard Neil writes

Before you start making up your own definitions, I suggest that you have
a read of:-

http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/appendices.asp?id=744


Which gives:
-----------
Pesticide
Any substance, preparation or organism prepared or used for controlling
any pest. A pesticide product consists of one or more active substances
co-formulated with other materials. Formulated pesticides exist in many
forms, such as solid granules, powders or liquids.
-----------

That Govt. definition is not relevant to this thread because clover is
not considered to be a pest in organic gardening.

But it was by the OP, who wanted rid of it?


And needed a HERBicide. ;-))

Which is, in turn, a pesticide.

I quote from the Pesticides Safety Directorate's glossary (url as above):-

Herbicide
A pesticide used to control unwanted vegetation (weed killer).



--
Howard Neil

On 19/7/04 21:57, in article
, "Howard Neil"
wrote:

Sacha wrote:
snip
And needed a HERBicide. ;-))

Which is, in turn, a pesticide.

I quote from the Pesticides Safety Directorate's glossary
snip


I was sure that you would. The government obliteration of 'common sense'
has readily seized upon your life, it seems.

--
Sacha
www.hillhousenursery.co.uk
South Devon
(remove the weeds after garden to email me)

In article , BAC
writes

None of the above. The purpose was twofold. First, to elicit responses
leading to a better understanding of what you and others of similar opinion
were driving at (and why), and secondly to suggest why it is not perhaps
surprising if such advice fosters resentment in some quarters. I'm sorry if
you were stung by my remarks, that was not my intention.


Fair enough. It'll teach me to keep my nose out of other people's
arguments ;-)

--
Kay
"Do not insult the crocodile until you have crossed the river"

Sacha wrote:

On 19/7/04 21:57, in article
, "Howard Neil"
wrote:


Sacha wrote:

snip

And needed a HERBicide. ;-))

Which is, in turn, a pesticide.

I quote from the Pesticides Safety Directorate's glossary

snip


I was sure that you would. The government obliteration of 'common sense'
has readily seized upon your life, it seems.


You seem to be a bit of a control freak. You have invented your own
definitions and woe betide anyone who disagrees with you. For your
information, the definition of "pesticide" that I gave you is in use
around the world. It is not the invention of "the government". There is
no "common sense" in having your own definitions. In fact, when it comes
to pesticides, that can be downright dangerous.

--
Howard Neil

In article , Franz Heymann notfranz.
writes

No. You are unfortunately quite wrong. It is not your prerogative to
redefine technical terms which have a prior definition.
I have now found 9 separate references, originating in the UK and in
the USA, including Encyclopedia
Brittanica and Wikipedia in which herbicides are defined as
pesticides, and none, except you, which claim the opposite.

Wrong again Franz. I agree with and support Sacha in this matter.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

In article , BAC
writes

That Govt. definition is not relevant to this thread because clover is
not considered to be a pest in organic gardening.

But it was by the OP, who wanted rid of it?

By means of a herbicide, not a pesticide. A selective herbicide at that
which would not harm his grass. Grass too may or may not be seen as an
welcome plant depending on the circumstances, but it is not a pest.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

In article , Sacha
writes
That Govt. definition is not relevant to this thread because clover is
not considered to be a pest in organic gardening.

But it was by the OP, who wanted rid of it?

And needed a HERBicide. ;-))

Yes, but not one which affected grass.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

In article ,
Howard Neil writes

I quote from the Pesticides Safety Directorate's glossary (url as above):-

Herbicide
A pesticide used to control unwanted vegetation (weed killer).

That is Govt. agri-speak. In urg, recreational gardening terms are used.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

In article , Franz Heymann
writes

Organic gardening is not the be-all and end-all of gardening, and
clover is not the only plant which is a pest under certain
circumstances. Alchemilla mollis is a pest in my garden, as is moss.
There are gardens in which Japanese Knotweed is a pest.
Please read my other posts on the definition of the term "pesticide".

I already have.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Franz Heymann
notfranz.
writes

No. You are unfortunately quite wrong. It is not your prerogative
to
redefine technical terms which have a prior definition.
I have now found 9 separate references, originating in the UK and
in
the USA, including Encyclopedia
Brittanica and Wikipedia in which herbicides are defined as
pesticides, and none, except you, which claim the opposite.

Wrong again Franz. I agree with and support Sacha in this matter.

Did you actually read what I had to say?
If so, you are welcome to turn a blind eye to the evidence and be as
wrong as you please.

Franz

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Howard Neil writes

I quote from the Pesticides Safety Directorate's glossary (url as
above):-

Herbicide
A pesticide used to control unwanted vegetation (weed killer).

That is Govt. agri-speak.

No. Since my last post on the issue, I have found 14 references to
the effect that a herbicide is a pesticide, and none to the contrary.

In urg, recreational gardening terms are used.

Sometimes some urglers use wrong terms. We are discussing an instance
of that.

Franz

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Franz Heymann
writes

Organic gardening is not the be-all and end-all of gardening, and
clover is not the only plant which is a pest under certain
circumstances. Alchemilla mollis is a pest in my garden, as is
moss.
There are gardens in which Japanese Knotweed is a pest.
Please read my other posts on the definition of the term
"pesticide".

I already have.

Now all you need is to apply some comprehension to what you read.
{:-((
The score is now 14 - 0 references in favour of classing a herbicide
as a pesticide.

Franz

Franz

"Sacha" wrote in message
k...
On 19/7/04 20:21, in article ,
"BAC" wrote:


"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article ,
Howard Neil writes

Before you start making up your own definitions, I suggest that you
have
a read of:-

http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/appendices.asp?id=744


Which gives:
-----------
Pesticide
Any substance, preparation or organism prepared or used for controlling
any pest. A pesticide product consists of one or more active substances
co-formulated with other materials. Formulated pesticides exist in many
forms, such as solid granules, powders or liquids.
-----------

That Govt. definition is not relevant to this thread because clover is
not considered to be a pest in organic gardening.

But it was by the OP, who wanted rid of it?

And needed a HERBicide. ;-))

Yes, indeed, if he wished to use a poison to remove the unwanted plant
(pest) he would be wasting his time if it was not of the sub-classification
herbicide, and, preferably, one which was actually likely to be effective on
'his' clover. So, the classification might be - poison; pesticide;
herbicide; clovericide :-)

Don't we have sufficient problems with taxonomy of plants?

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , BAC
writes

That Govt. definition is not relevant to this thread because clover is
not considered to be a pest in organic gardening.

But it was by the OP, who wanted rid of it?

By means of a herbicide, not a pesticide. A selective herbicide at that
which would not harm his grass. Grass too may or may not be seen as an
welcome plant depending on the circumstances, but it is not a pest.

I agree that a person wishing to use poison to kill clover in lawns would be
advised to use a selective herbicide, but not that the terms herbicide and
pesticide are mutually exclusive, which is what you seem to be suggesting.

Cars, buses, taxes, trains, and trams are all different, and are customarily
used to meet different needs, but they are all passenger vehicles - even
when they are not actually carrying passengers. Similarly, poisons intended
to kill organisms for pest control purposes are all pesticides, even though
the nature of the pests may be very different. And, fortunately, it is not
mandatory to use a pesticide just because one encounters a 'pest' :-)