I have recently moved into a house with a very large pond. The water is brown & murky (muddy?) there are no plants growing in it & recently I found a dead fish floating in it. The pond is approximately 150 feet long by at most 70 feet wide & I believe is lined with puddled clay. The house particulars stated that it was a spring fed pond ( but knowing estate agents, that may not be the case!).

Can anyone recommend a book which might deal with large natural ponds as all the books I've managed to find in the library & book shops seem to relate to 6ft by 10ft man made ponds & focus on smaller plants which wont outgrow their space.

There are a number of other fish in the pond - all a white-ish colour & about 1 - 1 1/2 feet long - should I be feeding them, bearing in mind the lack of vegetation in there??

As I am a complete novice, any advice would be appreciated - I wouldn't want to lose another fish

Sally
Kent

"bramble towers" wrote
in message ...

I have recently moved into a house with a very large pond. The
water is
brown & murky (muddy?) there are no plants growing in it & recently
I
found a dead fish floating in it. The pond is approximately 150
feet
long by at most 70 feet wide & I believe is lined with puddled clay.
The house particulars stated that it was a spring fed pond ( but
knowing estate agents, that may not be the case!).

I should quickly invest in a recirculating water pump to get some
oxygen back into the water.
Re feeding the fish, If the pond is in a poor state any overfeeding
will only make things worse.
But I'm sure that the fish would welcome something.

--
ned

http://www.bugsandweeds.co.uk
last update 15.10.2004

Sally wrote
I have recently moved into a house with a very large pond. The water is
brown & murky (muddy?) there are no plants growing in it & recently I
found a dead fish floating in it. The pond is approximately 150 feet
long by at most 70 feet wide & I believe is lined with puddled clay.
The house particulars stated that it was a spring fed pond ( but
knowing estate agents, that may not be the case!).

Can anyone recommend a book which might deal with large natural ponds
as all the books I've managed to find in the library & book shops seem
to relate to 6ft by 10ft man made ponds & focus on smaller plants which
wont outgrow their space.

There are a number of other fish in the pond - all a white-ish colour &
about 1 - 1 1/2 feet long - should I be feeding them, bearing in mind
the lack of vegetation in there??

As I am a complete novice, any advice would be appreciated - I wouldn't
want to lose another fish

First, identify the fish.
They sound like carp, possibly Ghost Carp a cross between Koi and ordinary
carp (why?) which are the water equivalent of pigs and root around on the
bottom and in a natural pond will cause it to always be murky by stirring up
the mud.
Alternatively they could be Grass Carp which eat anything green starting
with the best plants first.
When you have that information you need to decide if you want to keep them
or not.
Secondly, get a water test kit from a water garden specialist (Tetra are OK)
and test the water for Nitrates amongst other things, this will tell you if
the water is unhealthy. However what you do then in such a big pond goodness
knows, a pump would introduce oxygen which will help. But if it's spring fed
then that shouldn't be a problem.
Let us know.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

"Bob Hobden" wrote in reply to.

Sally wrote
I have recently moved into a house with a very large pond. The water is
brown & murky (muddy?) there are no plants growing in it & recently I
found a dead fish floating in it. The pond is approximately 150 feet
long by at most 70 feet wide & I believe is lined with puddled clay.
The house particulars stated that it was a spring fed pond ( but
knowing estate agents, that may not be the case!).

Can anyone recommend a book which might deal with large natural ponds
as all the books I've managed to find in the library & book shops seem
to relate to 6ft by 10ft man made ponds & focus on smaller plants which
wont outgrow their space.

There are a number of other fish in the pond - all a white-ish colour &
about 1 - 1 1/2 feet long - should I be feeding them, bearing in mind
the lack of vegetation in there??

As I am a complete novice, any advice would be appreciated - I wouldn't
want to lose another fish

First, identify the fish.
They sound like carp, possibly Ghost Carp a cross between Koi and ordinary
carp (why?) which are the water equivalent of pigs and root around on the
bottom and in a natural pond will cause it to always be murky by stirring
up the mud.
Alternatively they could be Grass Carp which eat anything green starting
with the best plants first.
When you have that information you need to decide if you want to keep them
or not.
Secondly, get a water test kit from a water garden specialist (Tetra are
OK) and test the water for Nitrates amongst other things, this will tell
you if the water is unhealthy. However what you do then in such a big pond
goodness knows, a pump would introduce oxygen which will help. But if it's
spring fed then that shouldn't be a problem.
Let us know.

That should read Nitrites not Nitrates.
As I said, if that is a problem you will need to look for a cause. Now a
pond directly spring fed should be OK unless something got into the pond
(previous owners wife in a weighted sack!) or runoff from fields/farm. But,
if the spring travels along a ditch to the pond then the water might pick up
nasties on the way, runoff again, something dead in the ditch, you will need
to investigate.
That said, fish, like anything else, do die.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Try this book.
Book Title: PONDS
Author: BIRD, RICHARD
Publisher: HAMLYN
ISBN: 0600610233
Binding: PAPERBACK
Pub. date: 15th March 2004
Pages: 144

I would also suggest that you completely drain the pond, remove excess mud,
invest in new plants. Then you fill the pond again. Then you should add one
or perhaps two bales of straw to the pond. This will keep the pond free from
algae. Then, as some other has proposed, buy a pump to circulate the water.


"bramble towers" skrev i
meddelandet ...

I have recently moved into a house with a very large pond. The water is
brown & murky (muddy?) there are no plants growing in it & recently I
found a dead fish floating in it. The pond is approximately 150 feet
long by at most 70 feet wide & I believe is lined with puddled clay.
The house particulars stated that it was a spring fed pond ( but
knowing estate agents, that may not be the case!).

Can anyone recommend a book which might deal with large natural ponds
as all the books I've managed to find in the library & book shops seem
to relate to 6ft by 10ft man made ponds & focus on smaller plants which
wont outgrow their space.

There are a number of other fish in the pond - all a white-ish colour &
about 1 - 1 1/2 feet long - should I be feeding them, bearing in mind
the lack of vegetation in there??

As I am a complete novice, any advice would be appreciated - I wouldn't
want to lose another fish

Sally
Kent


--
bramble towers

"ned" wrote in message
...

"bramble towers" wrote
in message ...

I have recently moved into a house with a very large pond. The
water is
brown & murky (muddy?) there are no plants growing in it & recently
I
found a dead fish floating in it.

I should quickly invest in a recirculating water pump to get some
oxygen back into the water.

Agreed.

Fish will be eating less at this time of year anyway so give 'em a fountain
to play with for now and try *not* to stir the water up yourself by hand
until you have have somewhere else set up to park the fish while you do.
--
Brian
"Reality rarely lives up to TV, usually because reality has a smaller budget
and the opportunities for retakes are minimal."

"Bengt Boysen" wrote in message
...
Try this book.
Book Title: PONDS
Author: BIRD, RICHARD
Publisher: HAMLYN
ISBN: 0600610233
Binding: PAPERBACK
Pub. date: 15th March 2004
Pages: 144

I would also suggest that you completely drain the pond, remove excess
mud,
invest in new plants. Then you fill the pond again. Then you should add
one
or perhaps two bales of straw to the pond. This will keep the pond free
from
algae. Then, as some other has proposed, buy a pump to circulate the
water.

NOT UNTIL YOU CAN PUT THE FISH SOMEWHERE SAFE WHILE YOU DO.

Ooops sorry, I appear to be shouting.

--
Brian
Henry Fielding: "All Nature wears one universal grin"

"Brian Watson" wrote in message
...

"Bengt Boysen" wrote in message
...
Try this book.
Book Title: PONDS
Author: BIRD, RICHARD
Publisher: HAMLYN
ISBN: 0600610233
Binding: PAPERBACK
Pub. date: 15th March 2004
Pages: 144

I would also suggest that you completely drain the pond, remove excess
mud,
invest in new plants. Then you fill the pond again. Then you should add
one
or perhaps two bales of straw to the pond. This will keep the pond free
from
algae. Then, as some other has proposed, buy a pump to circulate the
water.

NOT UNTIL YOU CAN PUT THE FISH SOMEWHERE SAFE WHILE YOU DO.

Ooops sorry, I appear to be shouting.
Well he *is* far away from you :0)

bramble towers wrote:

I have recently moved into a house with a very large pond. The water is
brown & murky (muddy?) there are no plants growing in it & recently I
found a dead fish floating in it. The pond is approximately 150 feet
long by at most 70 feet wide & I believe is lined with puddled clay.
The house particulars stated that it was a spring fed pond ( but
knowing estate agents, that may not be the case!).

Can anyone recommend a book which might deal with large natural ponds
as all the books I've managed to find in the library & book shops seem
to relate to 6ft by 10ft man made ponds & focus on smaller plants which
wont outgrow their space.

There are a number of other fish in the pond - all a white-ish colour &
about 1 - 1 1/2 feet long - should I be feeding them, bearing in mind
the lack of vegetation in there??

As I am a complete novice, any advice would be appreciated - I wouldn't
want to lose another fish

Sally
Kent


Thank goodness (well, you'll see what I mean) - someone with a big pond
- though different problems. Our pond is about half the size of yours,
no fish at all, lots of duckweed (imported by Mallard duck) and now some
blanket weed too.

The brown water is probably because your fish are English or Ghost Carp
- both which (as said further down the thread) are bottom feeders, so
they stir up the mud. In the hunt which got us this (16th century) house
we saw one VERY brown pond with lots of totally healthy Carp - that
house was of similar age to ours, about 20 years older. (Tree ring
dating for both)

The fish could be fed and rushed up to the bank opening their vast
mouths, but apparently got on fine without being fed too - clearly,
feeding the fish was not a priority for many occupants over the last
couple of centuries when these houses were lived in by indifferent
tenants. How old do you think the pond is? Many ponds were excavated
specifically to feed the occupants "fish on Friday" religious
requirement. This dead fish could well be a "one-off".

I certainly wouldn't drain the pond, it doesn't leak, there's not too
much vegetation, and as you don't have a blanket weed problem, the straw
(barley straw by the way) isn't needed either. Adding plants will be
difficult as the fish will chomp their way through your wallet straight
away.

Our problem is leaves, branches and rotting vegetation. The former owner
allowed rather too much tree growth around the pond. On our first visit
the pond could not be seen without effort pushing through Hawthorn and
general growth - much felled now. We could do with some bottom feeding
fish like yours, but I'm reluctant to add them until the water is "well"
enough - like you finding dead fish floating out there doesn't appeal to
me.

We do seem to have different problems, but at least the scale is similar.

Good luck -

Chris

"Bengt Boysen" wrote
I would also suggest that you completely drain the pond, remove excess
mud,
invest in new plants. Then you fill the pond again. Then you should add
one
or perhaps two bales of straw to the pond. This will keep the pond free
from
algae. Then, as some other has proposed, buy a pump to circulate the
water.

This is a clay lined pond, if it's drained then the clay will dry out and
crack, result, relining required. Removing excess detritus from a clay pond
is also fraught with danger, where does the mud stop and the clay begin.
As I said before , ID your fish and test your water with a proper test kit
(about £20 and half an hour). You will then know the extent of your problem.

If it's carp in the pond you will need to decide if you want a permanently
muddy pond or to get rid of them and stock with something less destructive
like Golden Rudd, Golden Orf etc. A local angling club would probably be
glad to remove the carp to stock their own waters. But whatever you do
remember not to disturb that clay lining.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

"Janet Baraclough.." wrote

I have recently moved into a house with a very large pond. The water is
brown & murky (muddy?) there are no plants growing in it & recently I
found a dead fish floating in it. The pond is approximately 150 feet
long by at most 70 feet wide & I believe is lined with puddled clay.
The house particulars stated that it was a spring fed pond ( but
knowing estate agents, that may not be the case!).

Can anyone recommend a book which might deal with large natural ponds
as all the books I've managed to find in the library & book shops seem
to relate to 6ft by 10ft man made ponds & focus on smaller plants which
wont outgrow their space.

There are a number of other fish in the pond - all a white-ish colour &
about 1 - 1 1/2 feet long - should I be feeding them, bearing in mind
the lack of vegetation in there??

They sound rather like koi carp, which fits...they eat all vegetation
and stir up mud. Why don't you ask the vendor?

Koi aren't usually just white unless they are the metallic Oghon type and
they don't eat much plantlife, just tend to uproot and damage it in the
search for food. A 3ft fish is a powerful mover of mud and plants, I doubt
anyone could hold one down.
Still think Ghost Carp or Grass Carp or diseased carp.

--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London


--
Regards
Bob
In Runnymede, 17 miles West of London

Bengt Boysen wrote:
[...]
you should add one or perhaps two bales of straw to the pond. This
will keep the pond free from algae. [...]

Not my field, but isn't it the case that the straw must be
barley-straw, not wheat or oat? Not sure why I think this, but it's
lodged in my memory for some reason.

Mike.

"Mike Lyle" wrote in message
...
Bengt Boysen wrote:
[...]
you should add one or perhaps two bales of straw to the pond. This
will keep the pond free from algae. [...]

Not my field, but isn't it the case that the straw must be
barley-straw, not wheat or oat? Not sure why I think this, but it's
lodged in my memory for some reason.

That is what I understood too. But mine is entirely book-knowledg in
this case.

Franz

bramble towers muttered:

I have recently moved into a house with a very large pond. The water is
brown
& murky (muddy?) there are no plants growing in it & recently I
found a dead
fish floating in it. The pond is approximately 150 feet
long by at most 70
feet wide & I believe is lined with puddled clay.
The house particulars
stated that it was a spring fed pond ( but
knowing estate agents, that may not
be the case!).

Can anyone recommend a book which might deal with large natural ponds
as all
the books I've managed to find in the library & book shops seem
to relate to
6ft by 10ft man made ponds & focus on smaller plants which
wont outgrow their
space.

There are a number of other fish in the pond - all a white-ish colour &
about
1 - 1 1/2 feet long - should I be feeding them, bearing in mind
the lack of
vegetation in there??

As I am a complete novice, any advice would be appreciated - I wouldn't
want
to lose another fish

Sally
Kent


--
bramble towers

It seems we are living in a parallel universe we also have a pond that we
made lined with clay two years ago. I recommend these people as I learned
most of what I needed to know and got some lovely plants (all established
and doing well) from them also:

http://www.wetlandplants.co.uk/home.ihtml

The muddy-looking water may be due to bottom-feeding fish such as Tench (we
put in 15 of them and have never seen them again, but they bred like mad
this year - hundreds of fry) they do a good job keeping nutrients down on
the bottom which prevents blanket weed. Our pond still looks a bit muddy but
is improving. A good tip is always have your boggy plants planted down-water
of the pond so the nutrients they'll need to grow in isn't washed into the
pond. Native fish will only breed to fit the amount of food available, so
although it may sound a bit hard-hearted don't feed them over winter and
make a start next spring.

I recommend Ceratophyllum demersum Hornwort, Callitriche autumnalis Water
starwort, Willow moss, water hawthorn for planting now. About next March
though you can really go to town on marginals such as Saggitta, Marsh
Marigold, Cyperus alternifolius Umbrella Palm - just follow Wetlands'
recommendations and aim for about a third of water area stocked with
pondweed and shading plants like water lilies.

We've only used native species (fish and plants) and please beware of anyone
offering you weed from their ponds you might get parrot feather, Canadian
pond weed or duck weed and that would be a disaster. Also be prepared to go
into pond to sort out problems

Kay muttered:

In article , Magwitch
writes
We've only used native species (fish and plants)

Where did you get your native fish from? I've seen tench on sale but not
much else.

A friend who is an angler brought them round in a bucket one evening this
last summer, he'd bunked off work and spent the afternoon fishing, also
brought a few native carp - doing well so far as they are camouflaged
against the herons )