Hi to everyone,
I am looking for information about self-sufficiency. I have a small piece of land on the south east of Spain, about 9 acres. It is in a mountainous area. And I would really appreciate if someone could recomend me a book or web about gardening and creating a total self-sufficient farm in this area ( creating energy, animals, vegetables, grain...). How many people can live of this piece of land? I've already read most of John Seymour's books but they are not focused on growing in Spain. I am also looking for some kind of farm school where I can learn something more than feeding animals or planting seeds and watering flowers, in any place of Europe. If anybody feels curious about the reason of this, have a look www.energycrisis.com. And for Spanish speakers, www.crisisenergetica.org. Thank you very much. I really hope you think of this carefully.

"Ana" wrote in message
...

Hi to everyone,
I am looking for information about self-sufficiency. I have a small
piece of land on the south east of Spain, about 9 acres. It is in a
mountainous area. And I would really appreciate if someone could
recomend me a book or web about gardening and creating a total
self-sufficient farm in this area ( creating energy, animals,
vegetables, grain...). How many people can live of this piece of land?
I've already read most of John Seymour's books but they are not focused
on growing in Spain. I am also looking for some kind of farm school
where I can learn something more than feeding animals or planting seeds
and watering flowers, in any place of Europe. If anybody feels curious
about the reason of this, have a look www.energycrisis.com. And for
Spanish speakers, www.crisisenergetica.org. Thank you very much. I
really hope you think of this carefully.

Johns Seymour's books will be fine for growing just about anywhere I
imagine. Tending goats in Spain is no different in theory than tending them
in Scotland, England, Germany or elsewhere. Their basic requirements are the
same. Figure out what you need to provide yourself with. Look at what is
grown locally, find out from people locally what they grow and ask if they
have tried anything else. Don't bother asking local Spanish peasant farmers
about animal welfare though as it is practically non existant other than
getting as much out of the beast for as little outlay as possible until it
dies. Not blaming them as they are mostly poor.
My parents lived in rural Spain for many years and most of the knowledge is
to be found in the people already growing. They can tell you about
irrigation channels and the like too aswell as possible grants avaiable.
Your nearest town hall should also be able to help aswell as the local
farmers union equivalent over there. Good luck.

"Ana" wrote in message
...

Hi to everyone,
I am looking for information about self-sufficiency. I have a small
piece of land on the south east of Spain, about 9 acres. It is in a
mountainous area. And I would really appreciate if someone could
recomend me a book or web about gardening and creating a total
self-sufficient farm in this area ( creating energy, animals,
vegetables, grain...). How many people can live of this piece of land?
I've already read most of John Seymour's books but they are not focused
on growing in Spain. I am also looking for some kind of farm school
where I can learn something more than feeding animals or planting seeds
and watering flowers, in any place of Europe. If anybody feels curious
about the reason of this, have a look www.energycrisis.com. And for
Spanish speakers, www.crisisenergetica.org. Thank you very much. I
really hope you think of this carefully.
Ana

Ohhh sounds exciting :~)

The following might be useful :~)

http://www.wwoof.org/

http://www.transitionsabroad.com/lis..._programs_spai
n_portugal.shtml

http://www.organic-holidays.com/SpainAll10.html

http://www.acountrylife.com/index.php

http://www.sunseed.org.uk/

HTH Jenny

In article , Ana
rdenbanter.co.uk writes

Hi to everyone,
I am looking for information about self-sufficiency. I have a small
piece of land on the south east of Spain, about 9 acres. It is in a
mountainous area. And I would really appreciate if someone could
recomend me a book or web about gardening and creating a total
self-sufficient farm in this area ( creating energy, animals,
vegetables, grain...). How many people can live of this piece of land?
I've already read most of John Seymour's books but they are not focused
on growing in Spain. I am also looking for some kind of farm school
where I can learn something more than feeding animals or planting seeds
and watering flowers, in any place of Europe. If anybody feels curious
about the reason of this, have a look www.energycrisis.com. And for
Spanish speakers, www.crisisenergetica.org. Thank you very much. I
really hope you think of this carefully.

A lot will depend upon your own interpretation of self-sufficiency. If
you mean total s-s as practised by Robinson Crusoe (until Friday) then 9
acres could maybe support two or three people at subsistence level.

If you intend to raise and sell produce to pay for purchases, 9 acres in
a mountainous area of Spain worked as a commercial smallholding could
provide for a small family or group. At least fuel should not be a
problem if full use is made of solar energy.

The kind of thing you have in mind is practised in Spain at the Sunseed
Desert Technology unit, website http://www.sunseed.org.uk/ (already
given by JennyC) Sunseed take in students on a work for keep basis, but
they usually have a long waiting list.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Alan Gould wrote:
[...]
A lot will depend upon your own interpretation of self-sufficiency.
If
you mean total s-s as practised by Robinson Crusoe (until Friday)
then 9 acres could maybe support two or three people at subsistence
level.

If you intend to raise and sell produce to pay for purchases, 9
acres
in a mountainous area of Spain worked as a commercial smallholding
could provide for a small family or group. At least fuel should not
be a problem if full use is made of solar energy.

The kind of thing you have in mind is practised in Spain at the
Sunseed Desert Technology unit, website http://www.sunseed.org.uk/
(already given by JennyC) Sunseed take in students on a work for
keep
basis, but they usually have a long waiting list.

I'm pessimistic about 9 acres of mountain land. I don't know anything
about the quality of the land, of course; but is it good enough to
grow cash crops? And if it is good enough, is it near enough to a
good market for those crops?

(Please, no goats: you'll be sorry. They don't live on grass.)

Mike.

"Ana" wrote in message
...

Hi to everyone,
I am looking for information about self-sufficiency. I have a small
piece of land on the south east of Spain, about 9 acres. It is in a
mountainous area. And I would really appreciate if someone could
recomend me a book or web about gardening and creating a total
self-sufficient farm in this area ( creating energy, animals,
vegetables, grain...). How many people can live of this piece of land?
I've already read most of John Seymour's books but they are not focused
on growing in Spain. I am also looking for some kind of farm school
where I can learn something more than feeding animals or planting seeds
and watering flowers, in any place of Europe.

Anything as general as that is going to be fairly useless. I suggest that
you need detailed help from people who understand the local climate,
diseases, soil, markets, crops......which is more likely to be in spanish
than english.

If anybody feels curious
about the reason of this, have a look www.energycrisis.com. And for
Spanish speakers, www.crisisenergetica.org. Thank you very much. I
really hope you think of this carefully.

If the appeal in the first para is just a little way of publicising the
latest ecodoomstering in the second para, don't bother. The econumpty
'Limits to Growth' published in 1974 iirc told us that we ran out of oil in
1985, gas in 1989, lead in 1983, tin in 1991, and drowned in our own garbage
in 1994. So we're all dead. If any of us weren't dead due to the
happenings in 1985 etc refereed to above, then we froze to death in the
global freezing predicted in the late 1970s. Those who were already dead
got even deader.

Thank you very much. I really hope you think of this carefully.

--
Anton

In article , Mike Lyle mike_lyle_uk@REM
OVETHISyahoo.co.uk writes

I'm pessimistic about 9 acres of mountain land. I don't know anything
about the quality of the land, of course; but is it good enough to
grow cash crops? And if it is good enough, is it near enough to a
good market for those crops?

Yes, there's a lot to be considered before getting too committed. Self-
sufficiency can be and is practised successfully by some, but in most
cases the dreamy mists fade quickly in the glare of reality.

(Please, no goats: you'll be sorry. They don't live on grass.)

We had goats here for 12 years. Once we had sussed their foibles, they
became quite manageable. Our sorrows were more about eventually having
to give them up.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Check out my reference page. However not oriented to Spain thou.

http://www.balesfield.co.uk/reference.html

"anton" wrote in message
...

"Ana" wrote in message
...

Hi to everyone,
I am looking for information about self-sufficiency

huge snip

.. So we're all dead. If any of us weren't dead due to the
happenings in 1985 etc refereed to above, then we froze to death in the
global freezing predicted in the late 1970s. Those who were already dead
got even deader.
Thank you very much. I really hope you think of this carefully.
Anton

Where is the optimistic Anton we all know and love :~)
Have a good Xmas and all the best for 2005
Jenny

"anton" wrote:

So we're all dead. If any of us weren't dead due to the
happenings in 1985 etc refereed to above, then we froze to death in the
global freezing predicted in the late 1970s. Those who were already dead
got even deader.

I wish to protest!

I'm _not_quite_ dead yet!

General Franco and Chairman Arafat, I regret to report, are still dead.

The point is well taken; we humans are more resilient and our predictions
less reliable than most think.


Gary Woods AKA K2AHC- PGP key on request, or at home.earthlink.net/~garygarlic
Zone 5/6 in upstate New York, 1420' elevation. NY WO G

"JennyC" wrote in message
...

"anton" wrote in message
...


Where is the optimistic Anton we all know and love :~)

Over-worked & on this occasion, over-sarcastic- sorry all. As the sun dies
a bit more each day at his time of year, I'm sometimes a bit slow getting
the Xmas spirit. Apart from that- enjoying today the sight of lots of fruit
buds on the line of plums and gages planted a few years ago, Mahonia Charity
flowering it's not-so-little socks off, & enjoying planning a little orchard
extension.

Have a good Xmas and all the best for 2005

Thanks & the same to you and all urglers. I'm hoping that mine will include
more nuts, more stone fruit, and my bass-guitar-playing mid-life crisis I've
been too busy to have in 2003 & 2004.

--
Anton

In article , anton
writes

Have a good Xmas and all the best for 2005

Thanks & the same to you and all urglers. I'm hoping that mine will include
more nuts, more stone fruit, and my bass-guitar-playing mid-life crisis I've
been too busy to have in 2003 & 2004.

Stay positive Anton. Being too busy is the best way to deal with any
crisis, and I can confirm that the late-life one is even better than the
mid-life version. Life not only begins at 40, it begins every morning!

Seasonal greetings to all!!
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"anton" wrote
"JennyC" wrote
"anton" wrote
Where is the optimistic Anton we all know and love :~)

Over-worked & on this occasion, over-sarcastic- sorry all. As the sun dies
a bit more each day at his time of year, I'm sometimes a bit slow getting
the Xmas spirit. Apart from that- enjoying today the sight of lots of fruit
buds on the line of plums and gages planted a few years ago, Mahonia Charity
flowering it's not-so-little socks off, & enjoying planning a little orchard
extension.

Have a good Xmas and all the best for 2005

Thanks & the same to you and all urglers. I'm hoping that mine will include
more nuts, more stone fruit, and my bass-guitar-playing mid-life crisis I've
been too busy to have in 2003 & 2004.
Anton

Remember this motto to live by:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body, but rather to skid in
sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly used up,
totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"

Jenny :~))

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , anton

Thanks & the same to you and all urglers. I'm hoping that mine will
include
more nuts, more stone fruit, and my bass-guitar-playing mid-life crisis
I've
been too busy to have in 2003 & 2004.

Stay positive Anton.

Thanks for the sentiment Alan- lack of positivity is not an issue.

Being too busy is the best way to deal with any
crisis,

there is no crisis other than being too busy!

and I can confirm that the late-life one is even better than the
mid-life version.

Excellent. I just hope I've got time to squeeze in the much-postponed
mid-life one before I qualify for the late-life one.

Life not only begins at 40, it begins every morning!

Seasonal greetings to all!!

and to you both.

[Slightly on-topic- The blackbirds have been having a very unseasonal
dispute over the myrtle berries, of all things. You know: someone wants to
save it till Boxing Day, someone else thinks it's too rich for pud then so
let's have it later, somebody else thinks it's wasted on the in-laws, and
the youngsters want it all now.]

have fun,

--
Anton

"JennyC" wrote in message
...


Remember this motto to live by:
"Life should NOT be a journey to the grave with the intention of arriving
safely in an attractive and well preserved body,

I'm told alcoghol helps. Useful for woolly aphid too.

but rather to skid in
sideways, chocolate in one hand, martini in the other, body thoroughly
used up,
totally worn out and screaming "WOO HOO what a ride!"


Absolutely.. The bass guitar is just a front.



Have fun,

--
Anton