"pollocmc" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'd reckon, the gravel will dissipate most heat that misses it's
target. Only problem might be the odd stone splintering. This is
only
if you aren't a very good aim. The flame gives a nice blue cone so
pretty easy to direct.

I think, that you don't actually have to fry them to a crisp just a
light toasting. Presumably the heat destroys the cells structure
enough. That being said it's not as satifying as watching them keel
over in flames.

My thinking would be that I'm still using chemicals anyway (well
burning them, but it still damages the environment if you want to be
that picky) So I just use whatever is most effective.

I believe glyphosphate breaks down very quickly when it reaches the
soil but some of the regulars will probably be able to
confirm/refute
this.

Glyphosate works like a dream if you are patient enough to wait a few
weeks for it to do its job.

Franz

June Hughes wrote:

In message , sarah
writes
June Hughes wrote:

In message , mike
writes
I'm thinking of getting one for suppressing the weeds coming up through
gravel

does anyone out there use one and are they any good ?
do they use generic gas cartridges or do they have to be parasene ?

I have one. Burns the weeds. I hate it. It is easier to scrape the
weeds out with a hoe or knife.

I have one. I'm sure it *would* burn the weeds if the heat from the
flame wasn't so easily dissipated by the wind :-/ OTOH it is a
legitimate excuse to play with fire :-)

Hi Sarah. I didn't know you posted here. As a wimp, I am a bit scared
of my weed wand and as it doesn't work as well as expected, that is an
easy excuse not to use it.

I read but very rarely post :-) Don't be scared of the weed wand; it's a
tool and you're a tool-using hominid!

regards
sarah


--
Think of it as evolution in action.

shazzbat wrote:

"sarah" wrote in message
. ..
June Hughes wrote:

In message , mike
writes
I'm thinking of getting one for suppressing the weeds coming up through
gravel

does anyone out there use one and are they any good ?
do they use generic gas cartridges or do they have to be parasene ?

I have one. Burns the weeds. I hate it. It is easier to scrape the
weeds out with a hoe or knife.

I have one. I'm sure it *would* burn the weeds if the heat from the
flame wasn't so easily dissipated by the wind :-/ OTOH it is a
legitimate excuse to play with fire :-)

Who needs an excuse?

Perhaps some of us were um, more thoroughly trained by our parents than
others :-)

regards
sarah


--
Think of it as evolution in action.

sarah wrote:
June Hughes wrote:

In message , sarah
writes
June Hughes wrote:

In message , mike
writes
I'm thinking of getting one for suppressing the weeds coming up
through gravel

does anyone out there use one and are they any good ?
do they use generic gas cartridges or do they have to be
parasene
?

I have one. Burns the weeds. I hate it. It is easier to
scrape
the weeds out with a hoe or knife.

I have one. I'm sure it *would* burn the weeds if the heat from
the
flame wasn't so easily dissipated by the wind :-/ OTOH it is a
legitimate excuse to play with fire :-)

Hi Sarah. I didn't know you posted here. As a wimp, I am a bit
scared of my weed wand and as it doesn't work as well as expected,
that is an easy excuse not to use it.

I read but very rarely post :-) Don't be scared of the weed wand;
it's a tool and you're a tool-using hominid!

But it's a lousy tool, and hominids abandon poor designs. In your
place, June, and armed with the supporting testimony you've read
here, I wouldn't hesitate to take the thing back and get my money
back on the clear grounds that it doesn't do the job. Then invest in
a hoe -- a Swoe if you can find one: an ingenious kind of Dutch hoe
with only one "arm" -- and an old table knife and fork, plus some
glyphosate if you like. Keep the cutting edges of the hoe sharp with
a file or flat scythe stone (spades too like being sharpened), and
live happily ever after.

Mike.

--
astrecks(at)yahooyourbrain(dot)com (remove your brain to reply)

Always look on the bright side of life (De do, de do, de doody doody do)


snip
Ayoop, lad! Tell yer summat fer nowt, yer bloody wasted on 't
gardening group! Gerrover t'alt.usage.english: t'yanks n aussies n
manbloodycunians ower theer are reet gaggin fer authentickal
dialectickals t'like of yersen! Bloody lah-dee-dah-parafeen!
snip
Mike.


are rite are kid, madferrit !

Jeff C (Manbloddycunian)

In message , Mike Lyle
writes

But it's a lousy tool, and hominids abandon poor designs. In your
place, June, and armed with the supporting testimony you've read
here, I wouldn't hesitate to take the thing back and get my money
back on the clear grounds that it doesn't do the job. Then invest in
a hoe -- a Swoe if you can find one: an ingenious kind of Dutch hoe
with only one "arm" -- and an old table knife and fork, plus some
glyphosate if you like. Keep the cutting edges of the hoe sharp with
a file or flat scythe stone (spades too like being sharpened), and
live happily ever after.

Unfortunately, I have had it for well over a year, so can't take it
back. I use an old knife (or to be correct, my daughter comes and uses
an old knife for me). I am in no position to complain
--
June Hughes

In article .com,
says...
The only thing I use it for now is lighting the bonfire.

Brilliant, a real use for it. Now if they had advertised it as that I'd
have bought it much sooner!

I found a single use for flame that (a) worked and (b) din't cause too
much agony.

I bought a bay sprigling for a quid at a local scout sale. I plated it
in the bit of the garden plan that says "large Bay". I'm patient. First
summer it got hit by a leaf miner. Come autumn I decided that the
organic pesticides had failed and it wouldn't hurt to destroy the
infected leaves on the plant. Plant death seemed a failry likely effect,
but I gave it a chance. I now have a three foot high bay bush with no
disease. Another 5 years and it'll be looking how I want it.
Warwick

The little parasene weed wand is frankly useless. I've got the weed wand professional which is another ball game. It's great for knocking back weeds where hoeing isn't an option ( on gravel for example ) and a couple of visits does pretty much take a redundant allotment back to bare soil. It does have 2 advantages not enjoyed by roundup. It kills weed seeds on the surface and it leaves potash. Of course if all you're bothered about is killing weeds then glyphosphate is fine, unfortunately I choose not to use chemicals so this is the only real way.
As regards paraffin it's not really that difficult to find. If you don't mind being ripped off then the B & Q's etc sell it for about £4.20/5 lt. Some garages likewise. We have a local garage that still sells in bulk and it works out around £3.20/5lt. We sell it in our lottlie shop for that price as well

"DJBrenton" wrote in message
news

The little parasene weed wand is frankly useless. I've got the weed wand
professional which is another ball game. It's great for knocking back
weeds where hoeing isn't an option ( on gravel for example ) and a
couple of visits does pretty much take a redundant allotment back to
bare soil. It does have 2 advantages not enjoyed by roundup. It kills
weed seeds on the surface and it leaves potash.

Er- where do you think that thepotaash comes from?

Of course if all you're
bothered about is killing weeds then glyphosphate is fine, unfortunately
I choose not to use chemicals

-and paraffin is not a chemical?
--
Anton

Er- where do you think that thepotaash comes from?


-and paraffin is not a chemical?
--

Ok if we have to be pedantic here I'll carefully rephrase.
I choose not to spray chemicals on my soil and prefer to turn the weeds into potash with a weed wand rather than use weedkiller. You have a problem with that or should I garden how you say rather than how I choose? Surprisingly I also use petrol to fuel my car.

In article ,
says...
The message MPG.1c57c6aaacaf3d69989905@dalai
from Warwick contains these words:


I bought a bay sprigling for a quid at a local scout sale. I plated it
in the bit of the garden plan that says "large Bay".

I suppose there's no point asking what's an affordable afper

Erm... Long story about a joke that went too far. An afper is a denizen
of Alt.Fan.Pratchett. One of the regulars there has a business domain of
affordable-leather.co.uk. Yes, that kind of leather product. I believe
that various domains were registered by those of us in the thread.
Affordable Hedgehogs, prawns, hamsters and cloggies were all in the
list...

Since I'd registered it, I decided to use it and failing any inspiration
for a better domain name, I've hung on to it.

And erm.. that's it really.

Warwick

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
. net...

[snip]

Got to agree with other posters - next to useless! Now maybe one of
those
big-boys that run from a real propane tank - maybe that would work!
Or
perhaps one of the "heritage" types that run from parafin - but
where on
earth do you buy parafin from these days?

From a diesel.pump.

Franz

"Franz Heymann" wrote in message
...

"Paul D.Smith" wrote in message
. net...

[snip]

Got to agree with other posters - next to useless! Now maybe one of
those
big-boys that run from a real propane tank - maybe that would work!
Or
perhaps one of the "heritage" types that run from parafin - but
where on
earth do you buy parafin from these days?

Any weed wand is useless, it doesn't matter how big it is, the heat
only kills off the top growth and leaves the roots to grow on another
day, so don't waste your time or money with the things, either use
weedkiller, or dig the things out.

--
alan

reply to alan(dot)holmes27(at)virgin(dot)net


From a diesel.pump.

Franz

People who declare them useless perhaps don't know how best to use them. My own belief stems from success which isn't really arguable. Anyone wishing to visit and see the results of correct use are welcome to do so. Of course glyphosphate works. It's just a personal choice whether to use it or not. If not, then a good weed wand, correctly used, does the trick.

Flame Weeding in the Garden
By Sheila Daar - Flame Engineering

Using heat to manipulate vegetation is an ancient horticultural technique. Native Americans used fire to keep brush out of grass lands for centuries, and farmers in the southern U.S. have pulled tractor-powered flamers across orchard rows and through fields of cotton, sugarcane, and corn since 1852, when the first flaming equipment was patented. Use of flamers in agriculture declined in the 1950's when the romance with herbicides was going strong. It experienced a revival in the mid-1960's when some of the short-comings of chemicals, including shifts of weed species, herbicide damage to crops and cost, made flaming attractive again.

Today flaming is used to control weeds in row crops, orchards and along fencelines and water-ways. A flamer has even been use to control stray weeds in the pavement in front of the Kennedy Centre in Washington, D.C. Given the long history of flame weeding in the U.S. it is ironic that this method has never caught on with American gardeners, while in Europe it is a common weed control technique for residential gardens and urban parks.

How Flaming Works
Before you conjure up an image of massive grass fires and "controlled burns", let me assure you I am not referring to these methods. Flaming utilises a propane or kerosene-fired torch, mounted on a long wand, to sear the tops of young weeds. The flame produces temperatures of 2,000oF (1,093°C), heating the sap in the cell walls of the plant tissue and causing the walls to expand and rupture. The weed wilts and dies, although it may take up to 24 hours before death is apparent.

How to Use a Flamer
There is an art and a science to flaming weeds. The mistake people often make is to assume that they must hold the flame on the weed until they see the plant burn up or at least look sizzled and scorched. Nothing could be farther from the truth. If the flamer is held over weeds long enough to blacken them, the ultimate effect may be to stimulate growth from the remaining roots. The whole point of flaming is to heat the cell sap, which is accomplished by slowly passing the flame over the plant. (A wonderful anecdote about how this "searing" technique was discovered is shown in the sidebar.) You may not see an evidence of wilting, let alone plant death, for several hours or even until the next day.

When first using a flamer, a little experimentation will be necessary to see what works best with your weed situation. In general, a good technique is to hold the torch three to six inches above the weeds, and walk slowly along the weedy area while lightly searing the weeds. If you are treating a large expanse of weedy ground such as a newly-prepared seedbed, point the torch at the weeds, and wave the wand in a scythe-like motion. Some manufacturers of flamers recommend a two-step approach. The first is to sear the weeds as described above. Once the weeds are dead and dried out (i.e. a day or two later), they recommend returning with the flamer to incinerate the dead vegetation on the spot, eliminating the need to gather and remove the dead weeds.

Leaves that have been heated sufficiently to burst cell walls will feel very soft to the touch and may turn a purplish colour before wilting and dying. Thus, when you are first trying this technique, use this touch test on the weeds. With some experience you will learn how long to hold the flame to the plant. Remember that the hottest part of the flame is an invisible cone sur-rounding the visible portion you should hold the flamer nozzle an inch or more above the weeds for optimum heating.

Once the weeds have wilted and died, you can remove them to the compost pile, or pass the flamer over the dead material and burn it into ash, which can be left on the soil as a source of minerals.



The technique of "searing" rather than burning plants with flamers was stumbled upon by accident in the 1930s. As reported by Corkins and Elledge in the May, 1940, issue of Reclamation Era, it happened like this:

John Hendreschke, county pest inspector in the Eden Valley, Wyoming, was burning a patch of bindweed (morning-glory) (Convolvulus arvensis) which had developed mature seeds. The growth was heavy and thick and John was doing a good job of burning it up. In fact, he was doing such a good job that by the time it was half done, his burning fuel had been three-fourths used up. So it was a matter either of making a long trip after more fuel or taking a chance on getting the job done with a rapid, light burning. He chose the latter and proceeded to quickly sear the tops of the plants on the rest of the patch.

John got his surprise when he went back to treat this patch the next summer. The part which he had given a "good job" of heavy burning seemed to have been stimulated by the treatment and the growth was heavier and ranker than before. The part that he had given the "poor job" of light searing of the top foliage was thinned by at least half and the remaining plants were sickly and weak.



Flaming Works Best on Young Weeds
Flame weeding is most effective on young annual and perennial weeds no taller than one to two inches (three- to five-leaf stage), because at that point the fragile root system is killed along with the top growth. When flamed at this stage, weeds such as shepherds-purse, Capsella bursa-pastoris; chamomile, Matricaria chamoillia; and annual bluegrass, Poa annua; quickly succumb. For unknown reasons, some annual weeds like lambsquaters, Chenosodium album, and common groundsel, Senecio vulgaris, also readily die at later stages of growth with a single pass of the flamer.

Mature stands of perennial weeds such as johnsongrass, Sorghum halepense, Canada thistle, Cirsium arvense, and even wild morningglory, Convolvulus arvensis, also succumb to flaming, but only after a number of treatments. One pass of the flamer may kill the tops of perennial weeds, but new growth will regenerate from the below-ground roots. However, repeated flaming - several times in a season, or spread over a season or two - eventually starves the roots and kills the weed.

Timing on Grasses is Critical
Broadleaf weeds are far more susceptible to control by flaming than are grasses. The fact that grasses evolved in environments where fire was a natural component of the ecosystem may explain their relative heat resistance. When grasses are about one inch tall (2 to 3 cm), they develop a protective sheath that can shield the growing point from the heat, allowing regrowth of tillers. Thus, if the flaming treatment is delayed until the sheath has formed, grasses will suffer a setback,but will not die. Thus, if you want to kill grasses, flame them before they exceed an inch in height. However, if you want to kill broadleaf weeds in a lawn, any grass that you accidentally sear that is more than one inch tall will quickly recover. Thus, flaming is a practical option for lawn weed control.

Flamers Useful in Many Sites
In European gardens, flamers are used for pre-emergent weed control in seedbeds, to weed between rows in vegetable and ornamental plantings, to clear weeds from flagstone and brick paths, from fencelines, drains and ditches, and to incinerate garden clippings. For example, prior to planting seeds or transplants into garden beds, European gardeners cultivated and level the beds, then irrigate them to encourage weed seeds to geminate. As soon as a green "fuzz" appears on the soil surface, they pass the flamer over the soil to kill the germinated weeds as well as any weed seeds lying on or near the soil surface. Seeds or transplants are planted following the flaming. Followup flaming can be done between rows if needed, although with the start they have on the weeds, most vegetables or flowers can shade out any weeds that pop up post-flaming.

Some Precautions
Flaming on dry, sunny days is recommended. Weeds growing in dry areas tend to respond more quickly to flaming than those growing in moist habitats, perhaps because available moisture gives plants more resistance to the heat. Do not flame near fuel storage tanks or lines, as there may be small fuel leaks that could ignite. When dealing with large areas of weed growth, work in sections, so that areas where weeds have not been flame-killed provide effective fire breaks - just in case some unseen dried material becomes ignited. Green plants undergoing flame-treatment rarely ever ignite.

Flamers Kill Insects and Pathogens
While this article has focused on the weed control benefits of flaming, this technique also has other pest control applications. For example, potato plants up to eight inches (20.3 cm) tall can be flamed to kill Colorado potato beetles, Leptinotarsa decemlineata, without causing undue damage to the potato plants. Flamers can also be used to incinerate fallen fruit and mulch that harbors over-wintering spores that cause powdery mildew, brown rot, and other plant diseases. Given their versatility, flamers appear to be very useful garden tools - particularly for those seeking alternatives to toxic materials. Hopefully, a wider array of garden-sized flaming equipment will become available, and these tools will become more widely appreciated by North American gardeners.

"DJBrenton" wrote in
message news


[snip]

Using heat to manipulate vegetation is an ancient horticultural
technique.

Indeed. Where I live, it is used to rejuvenate the heather, not to
eradicate it.

[snip]

Franz