Should the boards used to separate path from cultivated area in a modern
"raised bed" system be treated with anything or just left natural?

TIA
Slatts

On Fri, 4 Mar 2005 21:36:35 -0000, "Sla#s"
wrote:

~Should the boards used to separate path from cultivated area in a modern
~"raised bed" system be treated with anything or just left natural?

As an organic grower, I have to say untreated. I don't fancy eating
residue de creosote substitute after spending so much time trying to
stop chemicals from getting in my plot!

I can also say I did put my money where my mouth was in January and
created a lot of raised beds at my allotment with plain sawn pine,
about an inch thick, 8" wide and however many feet long I needed. I
have no clue how long they'll last, compared with treated timber. But
it looks good!


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

"Sla#s" wrote in message
...
Should the boards used to separate path from cultivated area in a modern
"raised bed" system be treated with anything or just left natural?

TIA
Slatts
Have you considered using untreated wood but with a black plastic sheeting
material stapled inside to keep the soil from contacting the wood.....my
present ones have a lining of 7mm thick sheet black plastic..they are four
years old and without any rot...my previous ones at the last house lasted
16 years and would possibly still be in use had the new owner not changed
the design.....Harold W.

www.crocus.co.uk/alanshowto/nodigbed/
All the information you need as recommended by Alan.

"Sla#s" wrote in message
...
Should the boards used to separate path from cultivated area in a modern
"raised bed" system be treated with anything or just left natural?

TIA
Slatts

"Bodge" wrote in message
...
www.crocus.co.uk/alanshowto/nodigbed/
All the information you need as recommended by Alan.

"Sla#s" wrote in message
...
Should the boards used to separate path from cultivated area in a modern
"raised bed" system be treated with anything or just left natural?


Alan says 'pressure treated'
The RHS books fail to mention it and it didn't Google

Thanks
Slatts

On Sun, 6 Mar 2005 20:04:39 -0000, "Sla#s"
wrote:

~
~"Bodge" wrote in message
m...
~ www.crocus.co.uk/alanshowto/nodigbed/
~ All the information you need as recommended by Alan.
~
~ "Sla#s" wrote in message
~ ...
~ Should the boards used to separate path from cultivated area in a modern
~ "raised bed" system be treated with anything or just left natural?
~
~
~Alan says 'pressure treated'
~The RHS books fail to mention it and it didn't Google
~
I find this quite astonishing, given Alan is organic... but yes, you
can tuck plastic down the sides of the wood to keep moisture in the
bed and stop it being in constant contact with the wood. I suspect
tacks or a staple gun would be handy in order to get it to stay put!


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

In article , jane jane@moonrose
..demonmapson.co.uk writes
~Alan says 'pressure treated'
~The RHS books fail to mention it and it didn't Google
~
I find this quite astonishing, given Alan is organic... but yes, you
can tuck plastic down the sides of the wood to keep moisture in the
bed and stop it being in constant contact with the wood. I suspect
tacks or a staple gun would be handy in order to get it to stay put!


Not this Alan! I use raised beds without any side supports.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

On Tue, 8 Mar 2005 19:06:59 +0000, Alan Gould
wrote:

~In article , jane jane@moonrose
~.demonmapson.co.uk writes
~~Alan says 'pressure treated'
~~The RHS books fail to mention it and it didn't Google
~~
~I find this quite astonishing, given Alan is organic... but yes, you
~can tuck plastic down the sides of the wood to keep moisture in the
~bed and stop it being in constant contact with the wood. I suspect
~tacks or a staple gun would be handy in order to get it to stay put!
~
~
~Not this Alan! I use raised beds without any side supports.

Oops I meant Alan Titchmarsh :-) :-)

Sorry for any confusion...


--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove onmaps from replies, thanks!

"Sla#s" wrote in message
...

"Bodge" wrote in message
...
www.crocus.co.uk/alanshowto/nodigbed/
All the information you need as recommended by Alan.

"Sla#s" wrote in message
...
Should the boards used to separate path from cultivated area in a
modern
"raised bed" system be treated with anything or just left natural?


Alan says 'pressure treated'
The RHS books fail to mention it and it didn't Google

Thanks
Slatts

********
"Pressure treated"?.
You've come to the right lad.
Way back, I climbed, plotted, mapped and tested for over a year, many
hundreds of telephone poles.
Records had been lost during the war.
The following is for information only and cannot be applied to gardening.
Telewag poles, (my affectionate name for them), are of Scots Fir wood. I
have worked on all sizes, even up to sixty footers. Some of the trunk
routes (City to City communications and some redundant) had been installed
at the turn of the century and very few were condemned due to rot.
Further, - the least rot was always in the bottom end below ground level.
That was because some of the preservative (creosote) had leached down,
through the long years, and soaked the full length and width of the stub of
the pole.
The process of preservation was called the "Reaping Process".
The bark was stripped off and the poles put into big cylindrical iron tubes
and the tubes were then sealed.
Creosote was poured in and the tubes subjected to high pressurise for some
time. They were then taken out and stacked, horizontally with separating
battens between to facilitate the drying.
According to the size and diameter of the poles penetration of the creosote
was roughly about from one inch to three or four inches. the inside "core"
thus left was untouched and was just the plain wood as it was before the
tree was felled.
Just after the period of testing I have described a new process was
introduced. The poles came with a coating of a thin yellowy preservative,
and I've racked my brain but cannot for the life of me remember what its
name was.
Remind, Eh! - I'm retired now!. And no creosote is going to be allowed in
*my* garden!.
Doug.

********

The process of preservation was called the "Reaping Process".
The bark was stripped off and the poles put into big cylindrical iron
tubes
and the tubes were then sealed.

You omitted to explain that the chamber was then sucked of air to form a
vacuum, which of course sucked out air from the timber as well, so that when
the creosote was sprayed in, it penetrated the poles as well.

City & Guilds Line Plant Practice "A"

Mike
another one of "God's Poor Orphans" now well and truly retired ;-))

"Mike" wrote in message
...
The process of preservation was called the "Reaping Process".
The bark was stripped off and the poles put into big cylindrical iron
tubes
and the tubes were then sealed.

You omitted to explain that the chamber was then sucked of air to form a
vacuum, which of course sucked out air from the timber as well, so that
when
the creosote was sprayed in, it penetrated the poles as well.

City & Guilds Line Plant Practice "A"

Mike
another one of "God's Poor Orphans" now well and truly retired ;-))

*******
Well done Mike, lad!.
Aye , I've got that C'n'G, 'n a few others!. Started as a Labourer in '47
straight out of the RAF..
Did the lot, workwise, on the job. Gangs, Exchanges, Repeater Stns.
Finished up Senior T.O. Looked after Lancaster Repeater Station then came
back to Barrow as a T2A again due to wife's health. (Lost my rank and
seniority, but worked my way up to the S.F.I.O job). Very nice!, wandering
around West Cumberland and the Lake District every day.
Sadly, I lost the Lass last August.
Best wishes to you Mike, and to all.
Doug.
********

Aye , I've got that C'n'G, 'n a few others!. Started as a Labourer in '47
straight out of the RAF..
Did the lot, workwise, on the job. Gangs, Exchanges, Repeater Stns.
Finished up Senior T.O. Looked after Lancaster Repeater Station then
came
back to Barrow as a T2A again due to wife's health. (Lost my rank and
seniority, but worked my way up to the S.F.I.O job). Very nice!,
wandering
around West Cumberland and the Lake District every day.
Sadly, I lost the Lass last August.
Best wishes to you Mike, and to all.
Doug.
********


Sort of on a par with me. I was a Senior Technician Instructor in a GPO
Training School in Leicester. Three of us were qualified for an Inspector's
Board, but the Principal would never put anyone forward, so I thought 'I
would rather stagnate back on the Isle of Wight than in Leicester' so I put
in for a transfer. The only way was drop to T2a which I accepted. Senior
Executive Engineer came over from Birmingham and wanted to know why I was
taking such drastic action. I told him the full story. My transfer was July
31st. Principal was removed from the school and the other two had their
Inspectors Boards on September 6th :-)) That was in 1971 and I was put in
touch with one of them about 3 weeks ago :-))

Mike

"doug" wrote in message
...

"Sla#s" wrote in message
...

"Bodge" wrote in message
...
www.crocus.co.uk/alanshowto/nodigbed/
All the information you need as recommended by Alan.

"Sla#s" wrote in message
...
Should the boards used to separate path from cultivated area in a
modern
"raised bed" system be treated with anything or just left natural?


Alan says 'pressure treated'
The RHS books fail to mention it and it didn't Google

Thanks
Slatts

********
"Pressure treated"?.
You've come to the right lad.
Way back, I climbed, plotted, mapped and tested for over a year, many
hundreds of telephone poles.
Records had been lost during the war.
The following is for information only and cannot be applied to gardening.
Telewag poles, (my affectionate name for them), are of Scots Fir wood. I
have worked on all sizes, even up to sixty footers. Some of the trunk
routes (City to City communications and some redundant) had been installed
at the turn of the century and very few were condemned due to rot.
Further, - the least rot was always in the bottom end below ground level.
That was because some of the preservative (creosote) had leached down,
through the long years, and soaked the full length and width of the stub
of the pole.
The process of preservation was called the "Reaping Process".

********
Bang goes my C &G pass mark on "Line Plant Practice!."
On final line in above, - (The process of.....)
Delete "Reaping".
Add "Reuping".
Sorry, Mike!.
Doug.
********
The bark was stripped off and the poles put into big cylindrical iron
tubes and the tubes were then sealed.
Creosote was poured in and the tubes subjected to high pressurise for some
time. They were then taken out and stacked, horizontally with separating
battens between to facilitate the drying.
According to the size and diameter of the poles penetration of the
creosote was roughly about from one inch to three or four inches. the
inside "core" thus left was untouched and was just the plain wood as it
was before the tree was felled.
Just after the period of testing I have described a new process was
introduced. The poles came with a coating of a thin yellowy preservative,
and I've racked my brain but cannot for the life of me remember what its
name was.
Remind, Eh! - I'm retired now!. And no creosote is going to be allowed in
*my* garden!.
Doug.

********

doug wrote:
"doug" wrote in message
...

"Sla#s" wrote in message
...

"Bodge" wrote in message
...
www.crocus.co.uk/alanshowto/nodigbed/
All the information you need as recommended by Alan.

"Sla#s" wrote in message
...
Should the boards used to separate path from cultivated area in
a
modern
"raised bed" system be treated with anything or just left
natural?


Alan says 'pressure treated'
The RHS books fail to mention it and it didn't Google

Thanks
Slatts

********
"Pressure treated"?.
You've come to the right lad.
Way back, I climbed, plotted, mapped and tested for over a year,
many hundreds of telephone poles.
Records had been lost during the war.
The following is for information only and cannot be applied to
gardening. Telewag poles, (my affectionate name for them), are of
Scots Fir wood. I have worked on all sizes, even up to sixty
footers. Some of the trunk routes (City to City communications
and
some redundant) had been installed at the turn of the century and
very few were condemned due to rot. Further, - the least rot was
always in the bottom end below ground level. That was because some
of the preservative (creosote) had leached down, through the long
years, and soaked the full length and width of the stub of the
pole.
The process of preservation was called the "Reaping Process".

********
Bang goes my C &G pass mark on "Line Plant Practice!."
On final line in above, - (The process of.....)
Delete "Reaping".
Add "Reuping".
Sorry, Mike!.
Doug.
********
The bark was stripped off and the poles put into big cylindrical
iron
tubes and the tubes were then sealed.
Creosote was poured in and the tubes subjected to high pressurise
for some time. They were then taken out and stacked, horizontally
with separating battens between to facilitate the drying.
According to the size and diameter of the poles penetration of the
creosote was roughly about from one inch to three or four inches.
the
inside "core" thus left was untouched and was just the plain wood
as
it was before the tree was felled.
Just after the period of testing I have described a new process
was
introduced. The poles came with a coating of a thin yellowy
preservative, and I've racked my brain but cannot for the life of
me
remember what its name was.
Remind, Eh! - I'm retired now!. And no creosote is going to be
allowed in *my* garden!.
Doug.

(Very much OT.) Fascinating -- and it's a long time since I heard or
saw the word "telewag"! A bee in my bonnet coming up: people's
history. In my time I've read several short books, very informal and
"natural", simply recounting the story of their working lives and
recording their trade language and slang by railwaymen, seamen,
poachers (!), and others, and they've always been rivetting.

People usually think history is all about kings and generals, but of
course that's only part of it: it's a tragedy when we lose the
memories of those in the engine room. I can see you two both know how
to tell a tale, so why not put some of it down for posterity? Help
may be available from the WEA, local history societies, maybe a Union
Education Officer (if they still exist), or Ruskin College Oxford
among others. A chat with somebody from the local paper (she'll buy
the beer if she knows what's good for her!) should start you off with
a short article, and it might grow from there.

Telecommunications, all the way to the Internet: a great story to
have been part of!

--
Mike.

In article ,
"doug" writes:
|
| Further, - the least rot was always in the bottom end below ground level.
| That was because some of the preservative (creosote) had leached down,
| through the long years, and soaked the full length and width of the stub of
| the pole.

That's actually not the reason.

You can observe it with treated or untreated timber. The fastest
rot is AT ground level, followed by the top of the pole (if uncapped,
but not if capped) and then either the above- or highish below-
ground sections (depending on the wood and conditions). The very
deep sections are usually the last to go, especially in wet ground.

There are several causes of rot when timber is above ground, but
pretty well the only one below is fungal attack, and fungi need air
to decompose lignin. Oak or elm will last nearly forever if either
dry or sodden, and even pulpy woods like poplar and willow will
last a surprising time. Damp and aerated is the problem.

By far the longest lasting native timber AT ground level is yew,
and it is the only one where its sapwood will last more than a year
or so at ground level, untreated - and even that doesn't last long
at ground level. Oak heartwood is OK, as you say, but its sapwood
rots fairly fast at ground level.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.