Hi

I have just got my first allotment. It is 250sqm and is covered in grass but very few 'weeds' having been used last year until autumn. (The soil was rotovated about a year ago but had crops in only a few areas.)

Can anyone suggest how to get rid of the layer of grass, I have read the FAQ but need some more specific advice. Would it be a good idea to use a turf cutter to lift the top layer, or is there any other way to create beds without using chemicals if possible?

Help, I'm only a novice!

:-)

thanks

SteveM

In article m, SteveM
writes
Hi

I have just got my first allotment. It is 250sqm and is covered in
grass but very few 'weeds' having been used last year until autumn.
(The soil was rotovated about a year ago but had crops in only a few
areas.)

Can anyone suggest how to get rid of the layer of grass, I have read
the FAQ but need some more specific advice. Would it be a good idea to
use a turf cutter to lift the top layer, or is there any other way to
create beds without using chemicals if possible?

Help, I'm only a novice!

My way of converting a grassed area into one suitable for growing
organic vegetables is unorthodox. It suits me though and it works.

I cut the grass as short as possible, preferably in late autumn or
winter. The cuttings go onto the compost heap, eventually to return and
replace the nutrients they took out. Then the area is given a good mulch
of well matured stable or farmyard manure. When that has bio-degraded
into the surface of the soil, I till it. (I use a rotovator, but other
ways are available). While tilling is in progress, I take out any
obvious weed roots or parts of plants. I then crop the area with
vegetables. Some grass shoots appear along with all the other weeds, but
they can be pulled out by their roots easily in the freshly tilled soil.
After a couple of seasons, the area is clear of established unwanted
plants and cropping can be practised as for annual weeds.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

The message m
from SteveM contains these words:

Hi

I have just got my first allotment. It is 250sqm and is covered in
grass but very few 'weeds' having been used last year until autumn.
(The soil was rotovated about a year ago but had crops in only a few
areas.)

Can anyone suggest how to get rid of the layer of grass, I have read
the FAQ but need some more specific advice. Would it be a good idea to
use a turf cutter to lift the top layer, or is there any other way to
create beds without using chemicals if possible?

You can cover the ground with old carpets (not rubber-backed, it
disintegrates), old tarpaulins, flattened cardboard packing cartons
(free and ready bundled up,from shops) or black plastic. The last three
need weighing down with planks or stone.Lack of light will kill all
growth within a couple of months..it's a good way to control weeds on
vacant ground in summer too. If using cardboard or black plastic, you
can leave it in place at planting time, cut an x with a knife, and plant
potatoes, bean plants etc through the hole.

Janet

On Mon, 2 Feb 2004 17:10:45 GMT, Janet Baraclough ..
wrote:

The message m
from SteveM contains these words:

Hi

I have just got my first allotment. It is 250sqm and is covered in
grass but very few 'weeds' having been used last year until autumn.
(The soil was rotovated about a year ago but had crops in only a few
areas.)

Can anyone suggest how to get rid of the layer of grass, I have read
the FAQ but need some more specific advice. Would it be a good idea to
use a turf cutter to lift the top layer, or is there any other way to
create beds without using chemicals if possible?

You can cover the ground with old carpets (not rubber-backed, it
disintegrates), old tarpaulins, flattened cardboard packing cartons
(free and ready bundled up,from shops) or black plastic. The last three
need weighing down with planks or stone.Lack of light will kill all
growth within a couple of months..it's a good way to control weeds on
vacant ground in summer too. If using cardboard or black plastic, you
can leave it in place at planting time, cut an x with a knife, and plant
potatoes, bean plants etc through the hole.

If going for carpet, cut it up into manageable sections ( say 4ft
square ), 'cos once it gets wet and dirty it can weigh a hell of a
lot.
You can plant through it too - it's particularly good for brassicas,
preventing cabbage root fly.
It'll also encourage slow worms to set up residence.

Regards,



--
Stephen Howard - Woodwind repairs & period restorations
www.shwoodwind.co.uk
Emails to: showard{whoisat}shwoodwind{dot}co{dot}uk

In article , Janet
Baraclough. . writes
Lack of light will kill all
growth within a couple of months..

We use the method of light elimination on occasions. It works to a
limited degree in the sense that it inhibits growth, but we have not
found that it will eliminate grass in a couple of months. As a very
rough guide, the time that covers are left in place is the amount of
time which the ground will be weed free after they are removed.

I use black plastic sheet for that job. I put it in place on the area to
be cleared in autumn of one year, leave it there until spring of the
year after the next - around 18 months. That gives a year or so of
relative weed freedom, but sooner or later the ground will become
inhabited by unwanted growth unless good husbandry is practised.
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

Thanks to everyone fo the replies.

The light elimination method sounds interesting but being a newbie I'm all excited and keen to get on with planting so I might limit that to part of the plot and try the method suggested by Alan and Joan, (cut the grass short, mulch, till and weed as you go).

I'm guessing from your replies that lifting turf is not really a useful option. Also I know that grass clippings can go on the compost heap but I thought that turves might not do it any good.

thanks again


SteveM

If keeping your plot covered with plastic or carpet for long periods,
make sure it's not being used as a shelter by slugs.

Alan Gould wrote in message ...
In article , Janet
Baraclough. . writes
Lack of light will kill all
growth within a couple of months..

We use the method of light elimination on occasions. It works to a
limited degree in the sense that it inhibits growth, but we have not
found that it will eliminate grass in a couple of months. As a very
rough guide, the time that covers are left in place is the amount of
time which the ground will be weed free after they are removed.

I use black plastic sheet for that job. I put it in place on the area to
be cleared in autumn of one year, leave it there until spring of the
year after the next - around 18 months. That gives a year or so of
relative weed freedom, but sooner or later the ground will become
inhabited by unwanted growth unless good husbandry is practised.

On Tue, 03 Feb 2004 09:02:07 GMT, SteveM
wrote:


I'm guessing from your replies that lifting turf is not really a useful
option. Also I know that grass clippings can go on the compost heap
but I thought that turves might not do it any good.

au contraire. using a turf cutter is a very viable (if somewhat
expensive) option and is quick and efficient. however, don't put the
turves on the compost heap: stack them brown-side-up in a corner of
the allotment and in a year or so you'll have a pile of loamy compost
perfect for potting. grass clippings CAN go on the compost but should
be mixed with plenty of 'brown' material (last year's stalks, stems,
shredded cardbord etc. to avoid a 'slimy' heap. Titchmarsh lends his
name to a commercial product called 'absolute rot' if you have no
'brown' available. (never used it).

In article m, SteveM
writes
Thanks to everyone fo the replies.

The light elimination method sounds interesting

but it won't do for couch grass - if you don't want to use chemicals,
the only way to get rid of it is to dig up every little bit of root.

I'm guessing from your replies that lifting turf is not really a useful
option.

We always slice off the top inch of grass and stack the turves upside
down somewhere out of the way - it turns into nice stuff that you can
either put back on the beds or add to the grass clippings in the compost
heap. Makes it easier to dig the soil underneath as well.
Occasionally we lift off the turves, double dig and put the turves
upside down at the bottom of the trench.

Also I know that grass clippings can go on the compost heap
but I thought that turves might not do it any good.

Turves in the compost heap is no problem - we do it regularly - but put
them on upside down.

BTW a nice compromise for getting rid of couch grass using chemicals,
mentioned by someone on this group a couple of years ago is:
1 Buy some nice tough rubber gloves.
2 Buy some of that sponge, self adhesive draught excluder
3 Stick some of the draught excluder on the forefinger and
thumb of the rubber gloves
4 Put the rubber gloves on
5 Dip the draught excluder bits of the gloves into glyphosate
6 Run the couch grass blades between the soaked draught excluder

Apparently the original poster cleared his patch of couch grass in one
growing season using this method - the chemical isn't spread anywhere
except on the couch grass.

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms
at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see

SteveM wrote in message ws.com...
Thanks to everyone fo the replies.

The light elimination method sounds interesting but being a newbie I'm
all excited and keen to get on with planting so I might limit that to
part of the plot and try the method suggested by Alan and Joan, (cut
the grass short, mulch, till and weed as you go).


hello
just a word of warning. I think this is a good approach, but you must
make sure the soil is easy to dig, so you can easily pull up weeds as
they arrive (hire a rotivator when the soil is nice and dry if you
must). And you must be very thorough. It will be somewhat overwhelming
all those weeds that keep popping up over the springtime. So regular
weedings are a must.
unless you are sure you can till the whole 250sqm every week or so i
would cover half in plastic/carpet/whateveryoucangetyourhandson mulch
(or at least leave as grass - in preference of bindweed and other
serious nasties) until you get the other half under control.
sarah

This is the way I sorted out my last house, I rotovated the lot with a large
hired machine which went down about 18 inches. I then spent the whole
spring and summer withe the hoe, more or less every day was needed. The
only things I dug were the docks and dandelions which vanished after a month
or so.
Remember though this is time consuming and fairly hard work.
After this I treated the land as an allotment with a three year rotation
system, I was lucky to have access to lot's of cow manure which I composted
and then spead across the ground - I used a rotovator to mix it with the
soil. Weeds are always a problem so the hoe just has to keep working

Bob


just a word of warning. I think this is a good approach, but you must
make sure the soil is easy to dig, so you can easily pull up weeds as
they arrive (hire a rotivator when the soil is nice and dry if you
must). And you must be very thorough. It will be somewhat overwhelming
all those weeds that keep popping up over the springtime. So regular
weedings are a must.
unless you are sure you can till the whole 250sqm every week or so i
would cover half in plastic/carpet/whateveryoucangetyourhandson mulch
(or at least leave as grass - in preference of bindweed and other
serious nasties) until you get the other half under control.
sarah

In article , Bob
writes
This is the way I sorted out my last house, I rotovated the lot with a large
hired machine which went down about 18 inches.

I know a guy who managed to spread marestail over his whole garden by
using this method. I would suggest that the pernicious weed roots must
be removed before rotovating or the rotovating process will just chop
them so that there will, in the end, be a helluva lot more

--
Jane Ransom in Lancaster.
I won't respond to private emails that are on topic for urg
but if you need to email me for any other reason, put ransoms
at jandg dot demon dot co dot uk where you see

SteveM wrote:

Thanks to everyone fo the replies.

The light elimination method sounds interesting but being a newbie I'm
all excited and keen to get on with planting so I might limit that to
part of the plot and try the method suggested by Alan and Joan, (cut
the grass short, mulch, till and weed as you go).

I'm guessing from your replies that lifting turf is not really a useful
option. Also I know that grass clippings can go on the compost heap
but I thought that turves might not do it any good.

I wouldn't bother lifting the turves to carry away and stack, just as good to
dig - preferably double dig. Skim the turf off as you go and put it in the
bottom of the trench, chop it about a bit if they are solid turves. I would on
ly do this if I was confident that there wasn't much couch grass amongst it.
Small amounts of couch you can tease the roots out as you go.

--
Rod
http://website.lineone.net/%7Erodcraddock/index.html
My email address needs weeding.

I had no marestail just grass, clover, docks and dandelions. As I said
whenever a perenial weed showed I dug the whole thing out.

Bob



"Jane Ransom" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob
writes
This is the way I sorted out my last house, I rotovated the lot with a
large
hired machine which went down about 18 inches.

I know a guy who managed to spread marestail over his whole garden by
using this method. I would suggest that the pernicious weed roots must
be removed before rotovating or the rotovating process will just chop
them so that there will, in the end, be a helluva lot more

Hi all,

thanks for the continued replies.

Assuming that I have just 'grass' with no pernicious weeds is it ok just to dig the whole lot over to create beds and then weed regularly as I go without lifting the turf.

SteveM


I had no marestail just grass, clover, docks and dandelions. As I said
whenever a perenial weed showed I dug the whole thing out.