Went to a friend's garden yesterday with a group of keen gardeners and
several people were there who have regular supplies of manure delivered
(weekly by trailer!)

They were saying that after June it will be illegal to sell manure by
the load and not only that the poor riding school owners will not be
able to store it on soil, (must be on concrete) and mustn't be allowed
to drain into public water systems (though it doesn't anyway). EU
directive apparently.


What on earth will gardeners be able to do, to get trailer loads after
June and worse, what one earth will riding schools do with all that
dung!

Perhaps a Club could be formed which gives you free access to the
manure?

How will this affect other supplies of compost?

Does anyone know?

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Amersham Gardening Association
http://www.lancedal.net/aga/

They were saying that after June it will be illegal to sell manure by
the load

A trailer with a lid on it becomes 'A Container', thus a "Container of
Manure" to go along with a "Bag of Compost" easy ;-)


and not only that the poor riding school owners will not be
able to store it on soil, (must be on concrete)

"MUST" be concrete? 'Not on soil' is 'not on soil' if spread on a heavy duty
tarpauline.

and mustn't be allowed
to drain into public water systems (though it doesn't anyway).

So, dig a big hole and put a septic tank in and sell that off 'in marked
containers' Let people bring their old plastic milk containers and have
labels printed at the Riding School to fix on them.

Read the small print word by word. There is nearly always a 'let out' and a
way round these things. Above are a couple I came up with in a few minutes.
There must be hundreds of ways of complying, but not complying.

I learnt a long time ago how to write letters to get things done, or not
done, by the careful use of words.

Mike

Sorry if this appears twice, but it is not showing on my computer


They were saying that after June it will be illegal to sell manure by
the load

A trailer with a lid on it becomes 'A Container', thus a "Container of
Manure" to go along with a "Bag of Compost" easy ;-)


and not only that the poor riding school owners will not be
able to store it on soil, (must be on concrete)

"MUST" be concrete? 'Not on soil' is 'not on soil' if spread on a heavy duty
tarpauline.

and mustn't be allowed
to drain into public water systems (though it doesn't anyway).

So, dig a big hole and put a septic tank in and sell that off 'in marked
containers' Let people bring their old plastic milk containers and have
labels printed at the Riding School to fix on them.

Read the small print word by word. There is nearly always a 'let out' and a
way round these things. Above are a couple I came up with in a few minutes.
There must be hundreds of ways of complying, but not complying.

I learnt a long time ago how to write letters to get things done, or not
done, by the careful use of words.

Mike

In article ,
Janet Tweedy writes:
|
| They were saying that after June it will be illegal to sell manure by
| the load and not only that the poor riding school owners will not be
| able to store it on soil, (must be on concrete) and mustn't be allowed
| to drain into public water systems (though it doesn't anyway). EU
| directive apparently.

The last sentence is very unlikely indeed - it will be regulations
introduced by our native bureaucrats.

EU directives almost invariably propose that there be adequate
regulations, and do not specify the details. Also, they are
typically proposed and agreed by the bureaucrats from member
states, and the UK is one of the more active in doing so. It
is an excellent way of introducing bureaucracy while putting the
blame on someone else.

If you have seen some of the storage facilities and the effect
of their run-off on local streams, you will know why tighter
regulations are needed. And the problem is getting worse, as
UK farming becomes more Americanised, including with feedlot
livestock fattening.


Regards,
Nick Maclaren.

On 2005-05-03, Janet Tweedy wrote:
Went to a friend's garden yesterday with a group of keen gardeners and
several people were there who have regular supplies of manure delivered
(weekly by trailer!)

They were saying that after June it will be illegal to sell manure by
the load and not only that the poor riding school owners will not be
able to store it on soil, (must be on concrete) and mustn't be allowed
to drain into public water systems (though it doesn't anyway). EU
directive apparently.

And then they complain that there's not enough organic matter in the
soil: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/sci/tech/4508503.stm

I feel a letter to my MP coming on... oh, wait... who do I complain at
this week?

Ceri
--
Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm
not sure about the former. -- Einstein (attrib.)

Hi Janet,

I manage a local livery yard and I am not quite sure how we are going to cope with these new rules. Our muck heap it allowed to compost over the winter and spring months and then I have a friend come in and spread it on my feilds that were used during winter. This way I don't need to get it fertilised with chemicals and I use my muck heap to my advantage..... I must admit it has helped my garden no end too!

We are suppose to be recycling our waste....isn't this recycling???

I am conserned that the manure spreading will also be a problem if run off is has to be collected.... surely as it degrades it runs off in to the natural water course anyway!?! AT least with manure it is slowly release in to the environment rather than with chemicals based products that enter the water systems rapidly.

Sam

In article , Janet Tweedy
writes
Went to a friend's garden yesterday with a group of keen gardeners and
several people were there who have regular supplies of manure delivered
(weekly by trailer!)

They were saying that after June it will be illegal to sell manure by
the load and not only that the poor riding school owners will not be
able to store it on soil, (must be on concrete) and mustn't be allowed
to drain into public water systems (though it doesn't anyway). EU
directive apparently.

There already are some fairly stringent regulations regarding silage
effluent entering streams etc, so this may be an extension of those.

Our horse manure is delivered weekly free from a private owner of two
horses. Is there any likelihood of them being stopped?
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

"Alan Gould" wrote in message
...
In article , Janet Tweedy
writes
Went to a friend's garden yesterday with a group of keen gardeners and
several people were there who have regular supplies of manure delivered
(weekly by trailer!)

They were saying that after June it will be illegal to sell manure by
the load and not only that the poor riding school owners will not be
able to store it on soil, (must be on concrete) and mustn't be allowed
to drain into public water systems (though it doesn't anyway). EU
directive apparently.

There already are some fairly stringent regulations regarding silage
effluent entering streams etc, so this may be an extension of those.

Our horse manure is delivered weekly free from a private owner of two
horses. Is there any likelihood of them being stopped?
--
Alan & Joan Gould - North Lincs.

If this refers to the Waste Management (England and Wales) Regulations 2005,
then DEFRA's "Question and answer" document includes:

Question:- Can I give manure and slurry to a householders for use on their
gardens?



Answer:- Yes - householders would not need to register the exemption [from
control] for manure and slurry in order to benefit from it.



So from this, it seems that supplying manure to gardeners will be exempt
from the new controls. Supplying to nurseries, smallholders etc. may be
different but even so the regulations seem to say that the use of manure as
a fertiliser is not considered to be waste disposal and therefore not
controlled, provided the receiver registers with the Environment Agency and
a few other conditions are met (such as not storing more than 1,250 tons of
it any time!)



Neil.

"Janet Tweedy" wrote in message
...
Went to a friend's garden yesterday with a group of keen gardeners and
several people were there who have regular supplies of manure delivered
(weekly by trailer!)

They were saying that after June it will be illegal to sell manure by the
load and not only that the poor riding school owners will not be able to
store it on soil, (must be on concrete) and mustn't be allowed to drain
into public water systems (though it doesn't anyway). EU directive
apparently.

As I understand it the manure must be stored on concrete and have a tank for
the run off to drain into. Or it must be taken away by a licensed
contractor. If you chose to lay concrete and suitable drainage you will be
charged up to nearly £500 per year for keeping the manure on your own land,
depending on how many tons you have. If you are a business it is treated as
toxic waste, if you only keep your own horses on your land it is regarded as
household waste. It is actually just another stealth tax. Considering the
absolute pigs ear that defra made (and are still making) of introducing the
totally useless horse passports, I don't have a lot of faith in them.
Personally I'd rather eat something grown in a bit of horse manure than
something that's genetically modified and covered in pesticides.



What on earth will gardeners be able to do, to get trailer loads after
June and worse, what one earth will riding schools do with all that dung!

Perhaps a Club could be formed which gives you free access to the manure?

I have a very large pile of manure, up to 2 years old, that you are welcome
to come and help yourselves to. I'm in South West Surrey, e-mail for
details but remove the spam trap.

Sue


How will this affect other supplies of compost?

Does anyone know?

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Amersham Gardening Association
http://www.lancedal.net/aga/

In article , samboc7
writes

Hi Janet,

I manage a local livery yard and I am not quite sure how we are going
to cope with these new rules.


Surely there must be a way round it ? Seems utterly stupid if not!


AT least with manure it is slowly
release in to the environment rather than with chemicals based products
that enter the water systems rapidly.



And I would have thought horse manure wouldn't be filled with the same
chemicals as intensively reared farm stock? I wouldn't have thought
riding schools needed to fatten up their horses!

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Alan Gould
writes

Our horse manure is delivered weekly free from a private owner of two
horses. Is there any likelihood of them being stopped?


We don't know Alan, we weren't sure how the rules were going to be
applied or whether there was going to be a workaround. Hasn't been much
in the paper about it but it will affect quite a few people . Seems the
horse owning population is being hit on all sides in the last couple of
years!

If anyone knows a way round the new restrictions we'd be very interested
to know.

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

In article , Neil Tonks
writes

If this refers to the Waste Management (England and Wales) Regulations 2005,
then DEFRA's "Question and answer" document includes:

Question:- Can I give manure and slurry to a householders for use on their
gardens?



Answer:- Yes - householders would not need to register the exemption [from
control] for manure and slurry in order to benefit from it.

That says 'give', so does ''sell' exclude them?





So from this, it seems that supplying manure to gardeners will be exempt
from the new controls. Supplying to nurseries, smallholders etc. may be
different but even so the regulations seem to say that the use of manure as
a fertiliser is not considered to be waste disposal and therefore not
controlled, provided the receiver registers with the Environment Agency and
a few other conditions are met (such as not storing more than 1,250 tons of
it any time!)



Both the gardeners who I spoke to on Monday have gardens of more than 5
acres and one has a trailer load of muck every week, so he may well
store quite a sizeable amount. He has a lot of trees and woodlands etc
so can use the stuff once rotted.

Janet
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk

On Wed, 4 May 2005 12:58:47 +0100, Janet Tweedy
wrote:

In article , Neil Tonks
writes

controlled, provided the receiver registers with the Environment Agency and
a few other conditions are met (such as not storing more than 1,250 tons of
it any time!)

Both the gardeners who I spoke to on Monday have gardens of more than 5
acres and one has a trailer load of muck every week, so he may well
store quite a sizeable amount.

Surely not more than 1250 tonnes! That's the equivalent of about 40
juggernauts full of the the stuff. Even a trailer every week and left
for 6 months would be hard pushed to reach 40 / 50 tonnes.

Quick question for any horsey types out there. How much manure does a
horse create? i.e. how many horses would you need to acquire a muck
heap weighing 1250 tonnes?

JB

Quick question for any horsey types out there. How much manure does a
horse create? i.e. how many horses would you need to acquire a muck
heap weighing 1250 tonnes?


Well, My horse produces about 1 and half well heaped, average sized wheelbarrows a day (he is a bit of a beast at 16.3hh) so on avaerage about 1 barrow a day and I have 6 horses on my yard. I am not sure how much weight 1 barrow is but it is pretty heavy. So it averages out at about 2190 barrows of poo a year for 6 horses, possibly more!

If anyone else want to work out the weight conversion please do ;o)

In article , JB
writes

Both the gardeners who I spoke to on Monday have gardens of more than 5
acres and one has a trailer load of muck every week, so he may well
store quite a sizeable amount.

Surely not more than 1250 tonnes! That's the equivalent of about 40
juggernauts full of the the stuff. Even a trailer every week and left
for 6 months would be hard pushed to reach 40 / 50 tonnes.

Quick question for any horsey types out there. How much manure does a
horse create? i.e. how many horses would you need to acquire a muck
heap weighing 1250 tonnes?

JB



The average horse produces nine tonnes of manure a year according to
Horse and Hound who reported the story in April at

http://www.horseandhound.co.uk/news/397/63473.html

they said
"A muck heap of less than five tonnes will not incur a charge, but one
of between five and 50 tonnes will cost £252 for the first year and £174
thereafter, while 50-400 tonnes will cost £482 for the first year and
£402 each year after that"
--
Janet Tweedy
Dalmatian Telegraph
http://www.lancedal.demon.co.uk