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Old 07-03-2003, 10:56 PM
Newbie Gardener
 
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Default Roses where other roses have been

I'm a bit confused after hearing that roses emit something into the soil to
prevent other roses growing in the same spot.
I want to replace some ancient roses, am I going to have problems?

Thankyou for any advice
Lorraine

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Old 08-03-2003, 12:34 AM
Zizz
 
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Default Roses where other roses have been


"Newbie Gardener" wrote in message
...
I'm a bit confused after hearing that roses emit something into the soil

to
prevent other roses growing in the same spot.
I want to replace some ancient roses, am I going to have problems?

Thankyou for any advice
Lorraine


If you plant a rose in the same place another rose has been planted it most
likely will not flourish and stands a good possibility of dying. As you've
grasped the idea the original rose leaves some kind of memory in the soil it
was planted in that stops replacement roses from flourishing.
If you want to plant a new rose where an old rose has been then you'll need
to replace the soil where the old rose was first unfortunately I don't
remember how uch of the soil needs replacing depth/width wise.
HTH
L


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Old 08-03-2003, 01:08 PM
Henry Ward
 
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Default Roses where other roses have been

I'm a bit confused after hearing that roses emit something into the soil to
prevent other roses growing in the same spot.


It is a soil pathogen thing not the rose itself. A bit like holiday
bugs for humans. The locals never have a problem it's just the newcomers.

I want to replace some ancient roses, am I going to have problems?


Take out the old rose which will probably be the easier part of the
exercise. Next, if you can, dig out a two spades widths cube of soil and
replace with soil from another part of the garden then plant the new rose.
If the soil replacement is either too much work or just plain old
impractical then nip down to the garden centre and buy some Armillatox. Mix
this up according to the instructions and give the soil a good drenching
with this. Wait for three days and plant your new rose. I have used this
method and had no problems.
Lastly remember to water a newly planted rose well at least once a
week for the first year, even if its been raining.
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Old 08-03-2003, 06:45 PM
Keith Gould
 
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Default Roses where other roses have been


"Newbie Gardener" wrote in message
...
I'm a bit confused after hearing that roses emit something into the soil

to
prevent other roses growing in the same spot.
I want to replace some ancient roses, am I going to have problems?

Thankyou for any advice
Lorraine I reccomend "Armatilox"



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Old 09-03-2003, 11:56 AM
Newbie Gardener
 
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Default Roses where other roses have been

Thankyou for the suggestions! I'd never heard of "Armatilox" I'll give it a
try,

Thanks again
Lorraine


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Old 09-03-2003, 12:56 PM
Scott L. Hadley
 
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Default Roses where other roses have been

I read in one of Christopher Lloyd's books about something he called
"specific replant disease."

Can't recall whether it was a fungal or other pathogen, but apparently it
was one of them. Guess I'll have to look it up. We seem to have much the
same trouble in Maine US, but perhaps not as bad---we just notice a decline
in vigor with subsequent plantings, since in this climate HT roses are much
like annuals, and we are always having to replant singles or entire beds.

What bothers me more than this is the recent arrival of Japanese beetles in
my area. Winters between 1994 and the current one were mild, allowing these
to breed each spring in our normally frozen soil. This has caused some
people to abandon their rose beds. I pray the current cold winter will help
with this.

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with Link to our Personal Page: http://nps-vip.net/hadley/photos/

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Old 11-03-2003, 08:15 AM
Jane Lumley
 
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Default Roses where other roses have been

In article , Henry Ward
[email protected]?.? writes
If the soil replacement is either too much work or just plain old
impractical then nip down to the garden centre and buy some Armillatox. Mix
this up according to the instructions and give the soil a good drenching
with this. Wait for three days and plant your new rose. I have used this
method and had no problems.


but remember, this advice is only good till June. Then armillatox will
be BANNED by the EU, and so will RoseClear2.
--
Jane Lumley
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Old 11-03-2003, 11:22 PM
Henry Ward [email protected]
 
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Default Roses where other roses have been



but remember, this advice is only good till June. Then armillatox will
be BANNED by the EU, and so will RoseClear2.


What is your source for this? I can find no references on the web.
http://www.armillatox.co.uk makes no mention of this. I find the above
strange as it has only just been given clearance for control of the detested
vine weevil.

If the above should come to pass then Jeyes Fluid is a similar
beastie and in very dilute form is an absolute ace at controlling rose
mildew and black spot. So that's Roseclear covered as well. Basically
anything based on phenolic compounds will kill off the offending pathogens
and allow the rose to be planted. Armillatox is only one such.
A lot of "banned chemicals" are only banned for garden use and are
simply withdrawn by the suppliers so that they become unavailable in the
shops. They remain available to "the trade". Friendly nurserymen could
always give you some.
The caveat here is to know what you need to do to control something
and then apply the most efficacious medium to achieve the result. If you
don't know just ask.
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Old 12-03-2003, 09:02 AM
jane
 
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Default Roses where other roses have been

On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 23:16:00 +0000, Henry Ward
wrote:

~
~
~but remember, this advice is only good till June. Then armillatox will
~be BANNED by the EU, and so will RoseClear2.
~
~ What is your source for this? I can find no references on the web.
~
http://www.armillatox.co.uk makes no mention of this. I find the above
~strange as it has only just been given clearance for control of the detested
~vine weevil.

The Garden, March 2003. News section.
http://www.rhs.org.uk/publications/p...ewsgeneral.asp

quote from above site

Pesticide withdrawal
More chemical licences lapse

Armillatox and Miracle Verdone Plus are among several popular
pest-control products that will disappear from UK garden centre
shelves this summer.

The decision follows the European Review of Pesticides (see News, Sept
2002, p664), which has led to the withdrawal of many well-known
gardening products. Armillatox and Jeyes Fluid have had their approval
revoked by the Pesticides Safety Directorate.

Armillatox Ltd in Derbyshire has said it cannot afford to support
Armillatox through the review process, but will continue to sell it
outside the European Union. Jeyes Fluid will no longer be offered as a
pesticide, so it may not be used to sterilise soil or kill moss and
lichen.

Approval has also been withdrawn for Dichlorprop - an active
ingredient in selective weedkillers such as Levington Tumbleweed Lawns
and Miracle Verdone Plus.

Products will not be sold after 24 July, and their use in gardens will
be illegal after 31 December.

end quote

Rumour has it that Armillatox will reappear as a patio cleaner (ie my
Dad got told that by a salesperson when he went to the factory shop to
get me some, but that could be a red herring)

jane


~
~ If the above should come to pass then Jeyes Fluid is a similar
~beastie and in very dilute form is an absolute ace at controlling rose
~mildew and black spot. So that's Roseclear covered as well. Basically
~anything based on phenolic compounds will kill off the offending pathogens
~and allow the rose to be planted. Armillatox is only one such.
~ A lot of "banned chemicals" are only banned for garden use and are
~simply withdrawn by the suppliers so that they become unavailable in the
~shops. They remain available to "the trade". Friendly nurserymen could
~always give you some.
~ The caveat here is to know what you need to do to control something
~and then apply the most efficacious medium to achieve the result. If you
~don't know just ask.

--
jane

Don't part with your illusions. When they are gone,
you may still exist but you have ceased to live.
Mark Twain

Please remove nospam from replies, thanks!
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Old 12-03-2003, 09:56 AM
Serena Blanchflower
 
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Default Roses where other roses have been

On Tue, 11 Mar 2003 23:16:00 +0000, Henry Ward wrote:

What is your source for this? I can find no references on the web.
http://www.armillatox.co.uk makes no mention of this. I find the above
strange as it has only just been given clearance for control of the detested
vine weevil.

If the above should come to pass then Jeyes Fluid is a similar
beastie and in very dilute form is an absolute ace at controlling rose
mildew and black spot. So that's Roseclear covered as well.


You can find more details on the Pesticides Safety Directorate website,
at
http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/farmers...es.htm#amateur
or http://tinyurl.com/7bf5. You will find though that both Jeyes
Fluid and Roseclear are also on the list!

--
Cheers, Serena

Where nothing is sure, everything is possible (Margaret Drabble)


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Old 12-03-2003, 05:20 PM
Henry Ward
 
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Default Roses where other roses have been



at
http://www.pesticides.gov.uk/farmers...es.htm#amateur
or http://tinyurl.com/7bf5. You will find though that both Jeyes
Fluid and Roseclear are also on the list!


Thanks for the above. The list of common names there is shocking.

The next question is why are they being banned? None of us drink
the stuff so the implication is that we have been using a dangerous chemical
injurious to human health or that they cause a dangerous build-up in the
environment. This of course must be nonsense or they would withdraw them
from sale immediately and have a campaign to warn people to destroy existing
stocks.
So, do they know they are bad or just think they might be bad?
The relevant information provided on the web site is, "These active
substances are being withdrawn because they have not been supported by
industry in stages 2 and 3 of the review."
No statements here that they are dangerous. I interpret this as
they just think they might be bad and if the producer does not contest this
then they will be banned. All of which raises more questions than answers.
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Old 12-03-2003, 09:00 PM
Jane Lumley
 
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Default Roses where other roses have been

In article ,
writes
What is your source for this? I can find no references on the web.
http://www.armillatox.co.uk makes no mention of this. I find the above
strange as it has only just been given clearance for control of the detested
vine weevil.


Last-but-one The Garden magazine (from the RHS) said Armillatox had lost
its appeal against the ban, which was reported in February.
--
Jane Lumley


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