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[IBC] Japanese White Pine Question
I love the look of mature Japanese White pine but I am a beginner. I've been told these trees are not for beginners because of the complexities of watering them. There's nothing complex about watering a pine. What's complex is pruning them. Are these trees grafted? (answer: yes.) You don't want to invest a lot of money in a grafted tree unless you know what you're getting into. I bought a [cheap] grafted white pine, oh, ten years ago, and while it's been educational learning how to prune, it's never going to be a good bonsai: the rootstock is growing at a much-faster rate than the top, making it look pretty dreadful. Buy ungrafted stock, or buy stock from someone who's grafting the tree inconspicuously with the intention that the tree be used for bonsai. -- Nina Shishkoff Riverhead, NY ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#2
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[IBC] Japanese White Pine Question
John wrote:
A local nursery has some Japanese White Pine (5 needle) that are under a foot tall and have a two inch diameter trunk. They are asking $90. I love the look of mature Japanese White pine but I am a beginner. I've been told these trees are not for beginners because of the complexities of watering them. I haven't killed any of my 10 trees yet including the two that I started with - the dreaded Serissa (in full bloom for the third time since I got it) and the Juniper mallsai. Everything is flourishing under lights/near a window with 30% humidity and a circulating fan at around 68 degrees F. The Pine would have to be kept at the 32 degrees F that the nursery has it at and I have a place for it in the basement until Spring. Should I give it a shot? Is it worth $90? ============================== No. Not if you are planning on keeping it inside. If you can keep it outside ALL year, take Nina's advice to heart and look hard at the trunk. It probably IS grafted. Is the graft obvious? It (probably) can only get worse. I like 5-needle pine, too -- MUCH better than Black pine! -- but an ugly graft is an UGLY graft. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#3
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[IBC] Japanese White Pine Question
----- Original Message -----
From: "John - NJ" Jim: No offense but you've got this weird fixation about keeping plants inside. We do what we must under our very different circumstances to keep our plants healthy and alive. Thanks, John ------------ Sure, and when we keep our white pines indoors, we kill them. There's a difference between those trees that will tolerate the unsatisfactory conditions of indoor cultivation and those that will not. Growing bonsai indoors not only means different needs and concerns, it also means different species. It pays to learn the difference. Growing bonsai indoors is best left to those with lots of experience, not those just starting out. It's not a fixation, John, it is concern for your trees' health and your prolonged enthusiasm. Best of luck! Kind regards, Andy Rutledge zone 8, Texas ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#4
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[IBC] Japanese White Pine Question
Jim:
No offense but you've got this weird fixation about keeping plants inside. We do what we must under our very different circumstances to keep our plants healthy and alive. Oh, foo. I am merely trying to help. No need to get smarmy. Pines are OUTdoor trees. I know of NO pine that will survive indoors. If you want to spend $90 on a plant that WILL die if kept inside, it's your $90. I will also note that there is NO plant whose natural habitat is inside a human-built structure. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#5
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[IBC] Japanese White Pine Question
"I will also note that there is NO plant whose natural habitat is
inside a human-built structure." Which makes lot of sense. I also saw the below post: "Growing bonsai indoors is best left to those with lots of experience, not those just starting out." So I'm guessing even those sold as "indoor bonsai" are just barely able to be kept alive for a rank amature? About 20 years ago I decided I liked bonsai. Since I'm in S.E. Wisconsin I thought an indoor bonsai would be better. To date I have not bought one even though I've seen a number of them I liked. Now I am disabled and more able to devote time to one, and more than willing to read and learn, and happy I found this newsgroup too, is there any suggestion as to which is heartier for indoors. Where I live now I can't give any plant a south facing window, would a plant light help or should I continue looking and learning? Name is Bill, or Olde....thanks for any info. Olde Hippie -- to reply direct remove number from addy "Two wrongs don't make a right, but three lefts will" "I prefer to perambulate to the tempo of a different percussionist" "Stupidity is believing much, while understanding little" ....Charles A. Meyers |
#6
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[IBC] Japanese White Pine Question
"I will also note that there is NO plant whose natural habitat
is inside a human-built structure." Which makes lot of sense. I also saw the below post: "Growing bonsai indoors is best left to those with lots of experience, not those just starting out." So I'm guessing even those sold as "indoor bonsai" are just barely able to be kept alive for a rank amature? About 20 years ago I decided I liked bonsai. Since I'm in S.E. Wisconsin I thought an indoor bonsai would be better. To date I have not bought one even though I've seen a number of them I liked. Now I am disabled and more able to devote time to one, and more than willing to read and learn, and happy I found this newsgroup too, is there any suggestion as to which is heartier for indoors. Where I live now I can't give any plant a south facing window, would a plant light help or should I continue looking and learning? Well. Welcome to bonsai -- and have at it. While there are no natural born "indoor plants," there ARE trees that will do OK indoors (and they're NOT pines ;-). I don't grow "indoor trees" so I'll leave the hows and wherefores to people who do -- Jerry? -- but you may want to search for books on indoor bonsai by Bonsai's most unpronounceable name: Paul Lesniewicz. You should be able to find affordable copies used at www.abebooks.com. You might look at one (or several) of the Ficus (fig) species to start. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Our life is frittered away by detail . . . . Simplify! Simplify. -- Henry David Thoreau - Walden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#7
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[IBC] Japanese White Pine Question
Hi Bill,
Welcome to the list and to bonsai. In addition to Jim's advice, I'd add that just because your in Wisconsin is no reason not to grow your bonsai outdoors (no tropicals, mind you. ;-). In answer to your question, those sold as "indoor bonsai" are in many cases nothing of the sort. Make sure you know what you're buying (and know all of that species' care requirements) BEFORE you buy. I'd suggest a Chinese elm or a juniper to start. Good luck! Kind regards, Andy Rutledge zone 8, Texas ------------------------ ----- Original Message ----- From: "oldehippie" I also saw the below post: "Growing bonsai indoors is best left to those with lots of experience, not those just starting out." So I'm guessing even those sold as "indoor bonsai" are just barely able to be kept alive for a rank amature? About 20 years ago I decided I liked bonsai. Since I'm in S.E. Wisconsin I thought an indoor bonsai would be better. To date I have not bought one even though I've seen a number of them I liked. Now I am disabled and more able to devote time to one, and more than willing to read and learn, and happy I found this newsgroup too, is there any suggestion as to which is heartier for indoors. Where I live now I can't give any plant a south facing window, would a plant light help or should I continue looking and learning? Name is Bill, or Olde....thanks for any info. ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#8
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[IBC] Japanese White Pine Question
"Growing bonsai indoors is best left to those with lots of experience, not those just starting out." So I'm guessing even those sold as "indoor bonsai" are just barely able to be kept alive for a rank amature? It depends. When I lived in a house with a sunporch, indoor bonsai were easy: my serissa *flourished*. Some people on this list have cool conservatories, or elaborate lighting and humidifying systems. Any of these things make indoor bonsai possible. Maybe even junipers. However, the average person with a sunny windowsill has to bite the bullet. I keep my "indoor" bonsai outdoors as much as possible, and consider their winter confinment to be a necessary evil. Also, as I will be the first to admit, my indoor bonsai are spindly, crummy looking specimens, not real bonsai. They are more like beloved pets. My real bonsai are outdoor bonsai. If I lived in Florida, like Jim, I'd have tropical plants that would STILL be outdoor bonsai. Because nothing beats outdoor conditions for vigorous, healthy, attractive plants. Now I am disabled and more able to devote time to one, and more than willing to read and learn, and happy I found this newsgroup too, is there any suggestion as to which is heartier for indoors. Where I live now I can't give any plant a south facing window, would a plant light help or should I continue looking and learning? Perhaps this is sacrilege, but have you considered orchids? Or pachycauls? There are lots of wonderful plants in the world that are easier to keep indoors than bonsai. If I didn't have bonsai, I think I'd collect Dorstenia. -- Nina Shishkoff Riverhead, NY ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#9
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[IBC] Japanese White Pine Question
oldehippie wrote:
"I will also note that there is NO plant whose natural habitat is inside a human-built structure." Most Ficus plants do well inside with the addition of fluorescent lights fairly close to the apex of the tree. My choice for indoors is a Bougainvillea. They bloom during the coldest part of the year, and it is a joy, while snow is falling to be able to enjoy the colorful Bracts develop. Which makes lot of sense. I also saw the below post: "Growing bonsai indoors is best left to those with lots of experience, not those just starting out." So I'm guessing even those sold as "indoor bonsai" are just barely able to be kept alive for a rank amature? I have to agree to some extent, but both of theabove mentioned specie do well indoors. Now I am disabled and more able to devote time to one, and more than willing to read and learn, and happy I found this newsgroup too, is there any suggestion as to which is heartier for indoors. Where I live now I can't give any plant a south facing window, would a plant light help or should I continue looking and learning? Absolutely, There are those that use Halide with great success. I use fluorescents and I am quite happy with my trees. Of course, I am not raising trees to show, just for my own pleasure. Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7 http://bmee.net/rosner http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...d=00000068 48 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#10
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[IBC] Japanese White Pine Question
Welcome to the list - I'm a newbie as well, so here is something from the
voice of inexperience...I started off the winter with a Serrisa and a couple of Ficus' underneath 3 double flourescents. Then after reading a bunch of stuff here about Metal Halides, I got one of those on e-Bay. I now have several Ficus', a Fukien Tea, 2 Calomondian oranges, a Jerusalem Cherry, a Rosemary, and some Jade under the the flourescents and Metal Halide. I keep the ones that need the most light under the Metal Halide and the others under the flourescent. I also have a cold air humidifier going at all times. Now I'm new at this - so have no experience at all - and my trees are growing like crazy. I spend a goodly amount of time on the weekends keeping them clipped, so they don't get bushy. I relocated my Serrisa's and a Fukien Tea to a East facing window where they get great morning sun and they are doing really well (the Serrisa's once they "recovered" from being moved). So, if they can survive me - anyone willing to take the time necessary to care for them should be ok. I'd recommend Ficus, Fukien Tea or Jade as being relatively easy to care for and not too particular (the exception being don't over-water). If you want something fairly "bullet proof" and don't mind spending a little extra, you might try http://www.fukubonsai.com where you can purchase "true" Indoor Bonsai. Good luck. Jeff Isom Cleveland, OH / Sunset Zone 39 oldehippie wrote: "I will also note that there is NO plant whose natural habitat is inside a human-built structure." Most Ficus plants do well inside with the addition of fluorescent lights fairly close to the apex of the tree. My choice for indoors is a Bougainvillea. They bloom during the coldest part of the year, and it is a joy, while snow is falling to be able to enjoy the colorful Bracts develop. Which makes lot of sense. I also saw the below post: "Growing bonsai indoors is best left to those with lots of experience, not those just starting out." So I'm guessing even those sold as "indoor bonsai" are just barely able to be kept alive for a rank amature? I have to agree to some extent, but both of theabove mentioned specie do well indoors. Now I am disabled and more able to devote time to one, and more than willing to read and learn, and happy I found this newsgroup too, is there any suggestion as to which is heartier for indoors. Where I live now I can't give any plant a south facing window, would a plant light help or should I continue looking and learning? Absolutely, There are those that use Halide with great success. I use fluorescents and I am quite happy with my trees. Of course, I am not raising trees to show, just for my own pleasure. Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen Gardenworks++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#11
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[IBC] Japanese White Pine Question
On Wed, 19 Feb 2003 19:55:07 -0500, Jim Lewis
wrote: I will also note that there is NO plant whose natural habitat is inside a human-built structure. Jim: Apology accepted. g This tree and any other I have in the house right now, like the Juniper, would go outside. They're inside now because they did not go through the normal Fall into Winter cycle. If I put them out now they might not survive. The Juniper came from {shudder} THE MALL and it's growing nicely under the lights. There's a cold space in the basement that stays around 32 degrees. The pine would stay there until it starts to warm up. Then out they go. ****Are all of the JWP grafts? Can you buy one that's not a graft? If yes, where and how much? Thanks, John ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Jerry Meislik++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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