Hi Allen,

----- Original Message -----
From: "Allen"
I've been given some big slabs of slate that i'd love to try to turn
into forest slabs the way Joe Day does with "Muck" to hold the soil in
place.
I have two questions .... #1 what do use to cut this slate into
manageable peices and drill holes ? #2. On a web page, Joe describes
his "Muck" as peat moss and powdered clay ... reminds me of hypertufa.
Where can i find this "powdered clay" stuff?
------------------------

You can use a masonry hammer to "cut" the slate. You don't drill holes. No
need. If you need something with which to ties the trees rootpads down, use
cornstarch and superglue mixed to anchor wires to the surface (to later be
covered by soil).

As for the "powdered clay," he means the powder residue of (or just crushed)
akadama (Japanese red clay). You can get akadama from a number of sources,
likely some who advertise on the IBC site. Mix with peat and water and
....voila.

Kind regards,
Andy Rutledge
www.andyrutledge.com
zone 8, Texas

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I saw an article (can't remember in what publication) in which slabs of
slate were shaped with a pipe wrench. The general idea was that the
shape was marked out in chalk, and the wrench was used as a lever to
break off pieces until the desired shape was obtained. Maybe someone
else will remember where to find this article. I haven't tried this,
but it makes sense - slate is rather brittle, and should break easily
this way. This would leave a more natural looking edge than chiseling or
hammering.

Jay

I've been given some big slabs of slate that i'd love to try to turn
into forest slabs the way Joe Day does with "Muck" to hold the soil in
place.
I have two questions .... #1 what do use to cut this slate into
manageable pieces and drill holes ?


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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Allen:
You did not mention how thick the slate was. If the slate is the type
used on roofs, it is usually about a 1/4 to 3/8 inch thick. If you
place a sheet of slate on a large towel over a hard surface, you can use
the pointed end of a pick hammer to score the size you wish to break
off. A metal chisel and a hammer also works....

To shape the slab is a different situation. If you have ever heard of a
Stilson wrench (used by plumbers in the olden days before pvc pipe) they
are the ideal tool for shaping slate. The stilson wrench has teeth on
the the top jaw (stationary and the adjustable bottom jaw. By setting
the jaws to about a half inch opening, you snap the stilson wrench
upward and the teeth of the lower jaw will take a bite out of the
slate. It takes a little practice, but you can obtain any shape you
desire. Of course it is best to draw the shape in pencil first.
Caution. Wear gloves and safty goggles.

Concerning muck; I have accumulated about six pages of information from
the Internet. If you or anyone is interested, please Email me
privately, and I will send it, rather than post it here.

Carl L. Rosner - near Atlantic City zone 6/7
http://bmee.net/rosner
http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...d=00000068 48
http://www.jamesbaird.com/cgi-bin/Ja...d=00000068 48


Allen wrote:

I've been given some big slabs of slate that i'd love to try to turn
into forest slabs the way Joe Day does with "Muck" to hold the soil in
place.
I have two questions .... #1 what do use to cut this slate into
manageable peices and drill holes ? #2. On a web page, Joe describes
his "Muck" as peat moss and powdered clay ... reminds me of hypertufa.
Where can i find this "powdered clay" stuff?






************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I saw an article (can't remember in what publication) in which
slabs of
slate were shaped with a pipe wrench. The general idea was that
the
shape was marked out in chalk, and the wrench was used as a
lever to
break off pieces until the desired shape was obtained. Maybe
someone
else will remember where to find this article. I haven't tried
this,
but it makes sense - slate is rather brittle, and should break
easily
this way. This would leave a more natural looking edge than
chiseling or
hammering.


I do this with ceramic tile -- left-overs that I buy at HD, then
shape for slabs. But I use a vice grip.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only to the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)

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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Andy Rutledge wrote:

Hi Allen,

#2. On a web page, Joe describes
his "Muck" as peat moss and powdered clay ... reminds me of hypertufa.
Where can i find this "powdered clay" stuff?

As for the "powdered clay," he means the powder residue of (or just crushed)
akadama (Japanese red clay). You can get akadama from a number of sources,
likely some who advertise on the IBC site. Mix with peat and water and
...voila.

With a little bit of snipping.

I have used the type of clay that is used for water lillys. Just let it
soak in water to become soft and mix with eg peat moss.

Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden

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In a message dated 12/17/2003 5:07:11 AM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

his "Muck" as peat moss and powdered clay

A traditional source of the powdered clay for muck is the fines sifted from
Turface, etc. As a rule not a lot of this is needed so this secondary use
gets rid of an otherwise wasted product, but doesn't force the user to purchase
a large quantity of material/

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
Bonsai Societies of Florida Annual Convention Memorial Day Weekend 2004
Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral, Florida www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org

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I found some slate floor tiles and used the wrench method to shape them into
slate slab stands for small bonsai and companion plants. The report is that
it works great with just a few words of caution:

1. use safety glasses, heavy gloves and clothing. This stuff is brittle and
flakes will fly off.
2. pad the jaws of the wrench with something, leather, cloth, cardboard,
something. Where pressure is applied to the slate by the jaws of the wrench
is not necessarily where the slate will split and if the pressure point is
on the piece you're keeping, there will be a whitish crushed area which can
be noticeable.
3. a treatment with slate or terrazzo floor finish gives a nice sheen.
4. glue some rubber shelf liner or thin art foam on the bottom with contact
cement. The stands can scratch your furniture and tables.

It's worth looking for slate for this purpose, the stands are great.

Jay Beckenbach - Melrose, FL - Zone 8b/9a -

-----Original Message-----
From: Jay Sinclair ]
Sent: Tuesday, December 16, 2003 7:26 PM
Subject: Carving slate


I saw an article (can't remember in what publication) in which slabs of
slate were shaped with a pipe wrench. The general idea was that the
shape was marked out in chalk, and the wrench was used as a lever to
break off pieces until the desired shape was obtained. Maybe someone
else will remember where to find this article. I haven't tried this,
but it makes sense - slate is rather brittle, and should break easily
this way. This would leave a more natural looking edge than chiseling or
hammering.

Jay

I've been given some big slabs of slate that i'd love to try to turn
into forest slabs the way Joe Day does with "Muck" to hold the soil in
place.
I have two questions .... #1 what do use to cut this slate into
manageable pieces and drill holes ?

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

I found some slate floor tiles and used the wrench method to shape them
into
slate slab stands for small bonsai and companion plants. The report is
that
It's worth looking for slate for this purpose, the stands are great.

At Bill Valavanis' fall symposium, Shinji Suzuki criticized some trees that
were displayed that way for "having stone (pot) on stone". I agree they
look great, but he is an expert.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Bart Thomas wrote:

I found some slate floor tiles and used the wrench method to shape them
into
slate slab stands for small bonsai and companion plants. The report is
that
It's worth looking for slate for this purpose, the stands are great.

At Bill Valavanis' fall symposium, Shinji Suzuki criticized some trees that
were displayed that way for "having stone (pot) on stone". I agree they
look great, but he is an expert.


I've used pieces of slate and other stone for stands, and I think they look
perfectly fine. I have been able to collect various pieces of natural flatrock
(generic term) such as slate, sandstone/traprock, and schist. In particular, I
found in Maine this fall some schist that is very flat and nice and rounded and
smooth.

It would be interesting to discuss some of the thought behind this idea that the
pot and stone are both hard, and the pot should be on top of something that
contrasts, that is "soft," such as a wooden stand. Is this a sort of Yin/Yang
thing? I'm curious.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

It was my impression that this discussion was about carving slate as a slab
on which to create a group planting. Maybe I jumped to that conclusion as
that's the only use I have seen for a slab. I would not consider a piece of
slate or other flat rock a good base for a bonsai pot, probably because of
the double hardness impression.

ed castillo in nw va
----- Original Message -----
From: "Craig Cowing"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 10:16 AM
Subject: [IBC] Carving slate


Bart Thomas wrote:

I found some slate floor tiles and used the wrench method to shape
them
into
slate slab stands for small bonsai and companion plants. The report
is
that
It's worth looking for slate for this purpose, the stands are great.

At Bill Valavanis' fall symposium, Shinji Suzuki criticized some trees
that
were displayed that way for "having stone (pot) on stone". I agree they
look great, but he is an expert.


I've used pieces of slate and other stone for stands, and I think they
look
perfectly fine. I have been able to collect various pieces of natural
flatrock
(generic term) such as slate, sandstone/traprock, and schist. In
particular, I
found in Maine this fall some schist that is very flat and nice and
rounded and
smooth.

It would be interesting to discuss some of the thought behind this idea
that the
pot and stone are both hard, and the pot should be on top of something
that
contrasts, that is "soft," such as a wooden stand. Is this a sort of
Yin/Yang
thing? I'm curious.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37


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****
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************************************************** **************************
****
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
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+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

At Bill Valavanis' fall symposium, Shinji Suzuki criticized
some trees that
were displayed that way for "having stone (pot) on stone". I
agree they
look great, but he is an expert.


I don't follow. Can you explain in a bit more detail - stone on
stone? Was the tree planted on a stone and the stone set on
slate?????

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only to the
white man was nature a wilderness -- Luther Standing Bear
(Ogallala Sioux Chief)

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
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Hmm, pot on rock is bad but (root over) rock in pot is good. I guess I'll
never be an expert. Oh well, it still looks good to me. I also put wood
stands on wood tables. That looks good to me sometimes too. silly amateur
me.

Have fun (I do) - jay

Jay Beckenbach - Melrose, FL - Zone 8b/9a -

-----Original Message-----
From: Bart Thomas ]
Subject: [IBC] Carving slate

I found some slate floor tiles and used the wrench method to shape them
into
slate slab stands for small bonsai and companion plants.....
It's worth looking for slate for this purpose, the stands are great.

At Bill Valavanis' fall symposium, Shinji Suzuki criticized some trees that
were displayed that way for "having stone (pot) on stone". I agree they
look great, but he is an expert.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

----- Original Message -----
From: "Jim Lewis"
To:
Sent: Wednesday, December 17, 2003 12:26 PM
Subject: [IBC] Carving slate

At Bill Valavanis' fall symposium, Shinji Suzuki criticized
some trees that
were displayed that way for "having stone (pot) on stone". I
agree they
look great, but he is an expert.


I don't follow. Can you explain in a bit more detail - stone on
stone? Was the tree planted on a stone and the stone set on
slate?????

No. The other "stone" was the pot.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Jarbas Godoy ++++
************************************************** ******************************
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