Okay Group
What makes the Shimpaku Itiogawa Juniper better than J. chineseis nana for
Bonsai?

Billy on the Florida Space Coast
BSF Annual Convention May 28 - 31, 2004 Radisson Hotel, Cape Canaveral,
Florida
Sponsored by The Bonsai Society of Brevard and the Treasure Coast Bonsai
Society
http://www.bonsaisocietyofbrevard.org/2004/2004.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Okay Group
What makes the Shimpaku Itiogawa Juniper better than J.
chineseis nana for
Bonsai?

Better? Is it? Sez who?

I know comparatively little about junipers so I haven't the
answers, but, essentially, a Chinese juniper (J. chinensis) is a
Chinese juniper (all other things being equal -- origin of the
specimen, age size, health, etc.). These are both cultivars (or
varieties) of the same species.

I suspect that "Tradition" (sound of fiddle music, please) may
lie as strongly behind any claim of "betterness" as anything
else -- that and the fact that the 'Shimpaku' has such a legacy
of hoary collected specimens from the mountains of Japan behind
it.

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Apples and
Oranges: A Demonstration -- Welcome to Hooterville! Population:
2000. Elevation: 3000. Established: 1850. TOTAL = 6850 -- Bob
Lilienfield

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/29/2004 8:39:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes:

I suspect that "Tradition" (sound of fiddle music, please) may
lie as strongly behind any claim of "betterness" as anything
else -- that and the fact that the 'Shimpaku' has such a legacy
of hoary collected specimens from the mountains of Japan
behind
it.

Well, actually there is a difference: the Itoigawa, which is located in the south west of Niigata Prefecture, produced Junipers with magnificent contortions and unsually compact foliage. You can see one at my site.

http://members.aol.com/iasnob/crane.html


Cordially,

Michael Persiano
http://members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

--- Jim Lewis wrote:
Okay Group
What makes the Shimpaku Itiogawa Juniper better
than J.
chineseis nana for
Bonsai?

I believe the shimpaki has a tendency to get more
compact foliage.

Kitsune Miko

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

At 06:14 AM 1/29/04 -0500, you wrote:
Okay Group
What makes the Shimpaku Itiogawa Juniper better than J. chineseis nana for
Bonsai?

Billy

You can actually get a decent trunk in your lifetime with 'Itoigawa'.


Brent in Northern California
Evergreen Gardenworks USDA Zone 8 Sunset Zone 14

http://www.EvergreenGardenworks.com

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/29/2004 7:12:50 AM Eastern Standard Time, writes:

At 06:14 AM 1/29/04 -0500, you wrote:
Okay Group
What makes the Shimpaku Itiogawa Juniper better than J. chineseis nana for
Bonsai?

Billy

You can actually get a decent trunk in your lifetime with
'Itoigawa'.

Brent raises an important point: how quickly can one expect to develop a convincing trunk to support the bonsai illusion?

I see many folks asking questions about developing specimens for bonsai culture from seed. I envy your patience. );-)

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hello and Good Day,
Michael,

I think the - from seed - part is when dealing with
a tree/shrub that actually thickens in the trunk.

I keep planting the seeds of the smallest leafed
fukien tea,in the black pine pot[ they actually
germinate there,why I don't know???],but after
6 years and pots the size of say 4 x 4 x 3',actually
a half of a 400 gal.water tank.

I still have PENCIL sized trunks and these shrubs
are at times over 3 to 4' in spread.

So I tell folk I am seriously working on a super
collection of flowering and fruiting mame',chuckle.

Much the same for Sparrow Plums[Sageretia Theesans]
after 11 years plus,and rampant growth 1" is the thickest
trunk I have achieved.Rampant is branches/vines over
14' long.
This shrub also has the special problem of large cuts,say
over 1/2" never healing.The wood rots easily as well,makes
for great compost material.

Now tamarinds,buttonwoods,seagrapes,hah,easy as peas.
Stay Well,
Khaimraj
[West Indies/Caribbean]

*Now our eastern seacoast is nippy,looking for ice on the
horizon.
I am always amazed how a little darkness ushers in so
much cold.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Persiano
To:
Date: 29 January 2004 8:14
Subject: [IBC] Shimpaku Itiogawa juniper


In a message dated 1/29/2004 7:12:50 AM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

snip
Brent raises an important point: how quickly can one expect to develop a
convincing trunk to support the bonsai illusion?

I see many folks asking questions about developing specimens for bonsai
culture from seed. I envy your patience. );-)

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Hello and Good Day,
Michael,

I think the - from seed - part is when dealing with
a tree/shrub that actually thickens in the trunk.

I keep planting the seeds of the smallest leafed
fukien tea,in the black pine pot[ they actually
germinate there,why I don't know???],but after
6 years and pots the size of say 4 x 4 x 3',actually
a half of a 400 gal.water tank.

I still have PENCIL sized trunks and these shrubs
are at times over 3 to 4' in spread.

So I tell folk I am seriously working on a super
collection of flowering and fruiting mame',chuckle.

Much the same for Sparrow Plums[Sageretia Theesans]
after 11 years plus,and rampant growth 1" is the thickest
trunk I have achieved.Rampant is branches/vines over
14' long.
This shrub also has the special problem of large cuts,say
over 1/2" never healing.The wood rots easily as well,makes
for great compost material.

Now tamarinds,buttonwoods,seagrapes,hah,easy as peas.
Stay Well,
Khaimraj
[West Indies/Caribbean]

*Now our eastern seacoast is nippy,looking for ice on the
horizon.
I am always amazed how a little darkness ushers in so
much cold.

-----Original Message-----
From: Michael Persiano
To:
Date: 29 January 2004 8:14
Subject: [IBC] Shimpaku Itiogawa juniper


In a message dated 1/29/2004 7:12:50 AM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

snip
Brent raises an important point: how quickly can one expect to develop a
convincing trunk to support the bonsai illusion?

I see many folks asking questions about developing specimens for bonsai
culture from seed. I envy your patience. );-)

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/29/2004 8:39:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

I suspect that "Tradition" (sound of fiddle music, please)
may
lie as strongly behind any claim of "betterness" as anything
else -- that and the fact that the 'Shimpaku' has such a
legacy
of hoary collected specimens from the mountains of Japan
behind
it.

Well, actually there is a difference: the Itoigawa, which is
located in the south west of Niigata Prefecture, produced
Junipers with magnificent contortions and unsually compact
foliage. You can see one at my site.

http://members.aol.com/iasnob/crane.html


Gosh, I thought that's what I said :-) part of that 'hoary
collected specimens" bit.

Howsoever, a nursery grown "shimpaku" is just a J. chinensis . .
..

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/29/2004 8:39:52 AM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

I suspect that "Tradition" (sound of fiddle music, please)
may
lie as strongly behind any claim of "betterness" as anything
else -- that and the fact that the 'Shimpaku' has such a
legacy
of hoary collected specimens from the mountains of Japan
behind
it.

Well, actually there is a difference: the Itoigawa, which is
located in the south west of Niigata Prefecture, produced
Junipers with magnificent contortions and unsually compact
foliage. You can see one at my site.

http://members.aol.com/iasnob/crane.html


Gosh, I thought that's what I said :-) part of that 'hoary
collected specimens" bit.

Howsoever, a nursery grown "shimpaku" is just a J. chinensis . .
..

Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Only where
people have learned to appreciate and cherish the landscape and
its living cover will they treat it with the care and respect it
should have - Paul Bigelow Sears.

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/29/2004 12:35:36 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:

Gosh, I thought that's what I said :-) part of that 'hoary
collected specimens" bit.

Howsoever, a nursery grown "shimpaku" is just a J.
chinensis . .

Yes, in part. There truly is a unique quality to the foliage. It is simply much more compact and finer. They are wonderful specimens . . . unfortunately, the landscape has been raked of these natural treasures.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
http://members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

In a message dated 1/29/2004 4:55:04 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:

So I tell folk I am seriously working on a super
collection of flowering and fruiting mame',chuckle.


Khaimraj:

These is nothing wrong with mame. If this is your area of concentration within the art, go for it.

It is the quality of our work and not the dimensions which count. Actually, it is considerably more difficult to create a bonsai illusion with smaller trees. Herein lies a significant challenge for those working with Mame.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob/index.html

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++

Khaimraj:
It seems to me that after six years you should put them on one slab and
have a nice forest! :-D

Carl

Khaimraj Seepersad wrote:

Hello and Good Day,
Michael,

I think the - from seed - part is when dealing with
a tree/shrub that actually thickens in the trunk.

I keep planting the seeds of the smallest leafed
fukien tea,in the black pine pot[ they actually
germinate there,why I don't know???],but after
6 years and pots the size of say 4 x 4 x 3',actually
a half of a 400 gal.water tank.

I still have PENCIL sized trunks and these shrubs
are at times over 3 to 4' in spread.

So I tell folk I am seriously working on a super
collection of flowering and fruiting mame',chuckle.

Much the same for Sparrow Plums[Sageretia Theesans]
after 11 years plus,and rampant growth 1" is the thickest
trunk I have achieved.Rampant is branches/vines over
14' long.
This shrub also has the special problem of large cuts,say
over 1/2" never healing.The wood rots easily as well,makes
for great compost material.

Now tamarinds,buttonwoods,seagrapes,hah,easy as peas.
Stay Well,
Khaimraj
[West Indies/Caribbean]




************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Marc Zimmerman++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++