In a message dated 8/26/04 9:09:38 AM, IASNOB writes:
The Shimpaku is a reasonably show growing specimen. * If you aggressively
feed the tree, you can expect to see substantial development after one year.

I feed everybody as aggressively as possible, except for a few full-grown
specimens. After comparing pictures and descriptions, I suspect my little one is
'Kishu Shimpaku,' which is fine with me.
Iris

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In a message dated 8/26/04 9:09:38 AM, IASNOB writes:
The Shimpaku is a reasonably show growing specimen. * If you aggressively
feed the tree, you can expect to see substantial development after one year.

I feed everybody as aggressively as possible, except for a few full-grown
specimens. After comparing pictures and descriptions, I suspect my little one is
'Kishu Shimpaku,' which is fine with me.
Iris

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Interesting quandry: When we are developing trees, we
wnat to get there quickly, but when we get there we
want the trees to go into a growth holding pattern.

I have a Kinsville Box that just sits there. It has
sat there now for about 10-15 years in a 10 gallon
can, super fed underfed, no difference. If its
growing at all, its got me fooled. Some day perhaps,
I will bite the bullet and admit that as a bonsai,
this one will be best at 3 inches.

Kitsune Miko

OT Haiku

Roused from summer lethargy
By the frosted edges
Of a late summer’s day

Copyright 8-26-04 by the
Poetess Kitsune Miko

--- wrote:

In a message dated 8/26/04 9:09:38 AM, IASNOB
writes:
The Shimpaku is a reasonably show growing
specimen. If you aggressively
feed the tree, you can expect to see substantial
development after one year.

I feed everybody as aggressively as possible, except
for a few full-grown
specimens. After comparing pictures and
descriptions, I suspect my little one is
'Kishu Shimpaku,' which is fine with me.
Iris


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Gardenworks++++

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http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++



=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

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Interesting quandry: When we are developing trees, we
wnat to get there quickly, but when we get there we
want the trees to go into a growth holding pattern.

I have a Kinsville Box that just sits there. It has
sat there now for about 10-15 years in a 10 gallon
can, super fed underfed, no difference. If its
growing at all, its got me fooled. Some day perhaps,
I will bite the bullet and admit that as a bonsai,
this one will be best at 3 inches.

Kitsune Miko

OT Haiku

Roused from summer lethargy
By the frosted edges
Of a late summer’s day

Copyright 8-26-04 by the
Poetess Kitsune Miko

--- wrote:

In a message dated 8/26/04 9:09:38 AM, IASNOB
writes:
The Shimpaku is a reasonably show growing
specimen. If you aggressively
feed the tree, you can expect to see substantial
development after one year.

I feed everybody as aggressively as possible, except
for a few full-grown
specimens. After comparing pictures and
descriptions, I suspect my little one is
'Kishu Shimpaku,' which is fine with me.
Iris


************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by Evergreen
Gardenworks++++

************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ:
http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail
+++++



=====
****
"Expectations are resentments under construction."

Anne Lamott

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Kitsune writes:

Interesting quandry: When we are developing trees, we
wnat to get there quickly, but when we get there we
want the trees to go into a growth holding pattern.

I have a Kinsville Box that just sits there. It has
sat there now for about 10-15 years in a 10 gallon
can, super fed underfed, no difference. If its
growing at all, its got me fooled. Some day perhaps,
I will bite the bullet and admit that as a bonsai,
this one will be best at 3 inches.

Kitsune:

I am about the publish an article in Bonsai Europe on the styling of a 50 year old Kingsville. The tree went through a drastic styling (the first) in the spring of 2004. The combination of fast-draining soil and Superfeeding (my method) has resulted in remarkable growth--even for this species that is reputed to grow at 1/8-1/4 inch per year.

We do have the ability to style our trees and produce targeted growth. I will soon place a few photographs on my site. I will point those of you to the site who have interest in this species in the near future.

Kingsville, when motivated, will grow like weeds.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob

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Kitsune writes:

Interesting quandry: When we are developing trees, we
wnat to get there quickly, but when we get there we
want the trees to go into a growth holding pattern.

I have a Kinsville Box that just sits there. It has
sat there now for about 10-15 years in a 10 gallon
can, super fed underfed, no difference. If its
growing at all, its got me fooled. Some day perhaps,
I will bite the bullet and admit that as a bonsai,
this one will be best at 3 inches.

Kitsune:

I am about the publish an article in Bonsai Europe on the styling of a 50 year old Kingsville. The tree went through a drastic styling (the first) in the spring of 2004. The combination of fast-draining soil and Superfeeding (my method) has resulted in remarkable growth--even for this species that is reputed to grow at 1/8-1/4 inch per year.

We do have the ability to style our trees and produce targeted growth. I will soon place a few photographs on my site. I will point those of you to the site who have interest in this species in the near future.

Kingsville, when motivated, will grow like weeds.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob

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Michael Persiano wrote:

Kitsune writes:

snip

I have a Kinsville Box that just sits there. It has
sat there now for about 10-15 years in a 10 gallon
can, super fed underfed, no difference.

snip


Kitsune:

I am about the publish an article in Bonsai Europe on the styling of a 50 year old Kingsville. The tree went through a drastic styling (the first) in the spring of 2004. The combination of fast-draining soil and Superfeeding (my method) has resulted in remarkable growth--even for this species that is reputed to grow at 1/8-1/4 inch per year.

snip
Kingsville, when motivated, will grow like weeds.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob

I have had the same experience with Kingsville. I have three of them and now a pile of cuttings. Last year I bought two 2 gallon specimens that had been grown outdoors in Maryland. The nursery guy started them himself from cuttings and knew exactly how old they are--now 42 years--the same age as Anita! (am I allowed to reveal that info?)
Anyway, I have been fertilizing these along with my other trees and have had tremendous growth and development of pads. I cut them down this spring and potted them in pots, and one will be ready for display at our wedding in October. With repeated manicuring I have found that it is possible to develop well-defined pads in a couple of years. One
caveat with fertilizing, however, is that a Kingsville will sometimes respond with larger growth, so if that happens it might be necessary to back off on fertilizer.

I don't know where the 1/8" to 1/4" growth a year thing came from, Michael, but I've gotten more growth than that. It is a truly satisfying cultivar to work with, especially in a climate such as mine where they will not winter safely outdoors. I keep mine outside until around early December, then bring them in and keep them under fluorescent
lights--very close to the lights. This helps in quicker development because you extend the growing season.

Craig Cowing
NY
zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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In a message dated 8/29/2004 1:15:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:
One
caveat with fertilizing, however, is that a Kingsville will sometimes respond
with larger growth, so if that happens it might be necessary to back off on
fertilizer.

I don't know where the 1/8" to 1/4" growth a year thing came from, Michael,
but I've gotten more growth than that. It is a truly satisfying cultivar to
work with, especially in a climate such as mine where they will not winter
safely outdoors. I keep mine outside until around early December, then bring them
in and keep them under fluorescent
lights--very close to the lights. This helps in quicker development because
you extend the growing season.
Craig:

My preference is to winter Kingsville in a cold environment at around
35-degrees Fahrenheit. As you know, they do quite well in your neck of the woods as
fielded material for bonsai.

On another note, I would suggest that the larger leaves on the Kingsville are
the result of a little too much water and not the result of fertilizing. I
will post the styled tree for Bonsai Europe with a close up of the foliage--the
result of intensive feedings throughout the 2004 growing season.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob

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wrote:

In a message dated 8/29/2004 1:15:34 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:

One
caveat with fertilizing, however, is that a Kingsville will
sometimes respond with larger growth, so if that happens it
might be necessary to back off on fertilizer.

I don't know where the 1/8" to 1/4" growth a year thing came
from, Michael, but I've gotten more growth than that. It is
a truly satisfying cultivar to work with, especially in a
climate such as mine where they will not winter safely
outdoors. I keep mine outside until around early December,
then bring them in and keep them under fluorescent
lights--very close to the lights. This helps in quicker
development because you extend the growing season.

Craig: My preference is to winter Kingsville in a cold environment at
around 35-degrees Fahrenheit. As you know, they do quite well in your
neck of the woods as fielded material for bonsai.

Michael:

I guess you're not familiar with my area. Despite the fact that I'm
only 1.5 hours away from downtown Manhattan, it gets considerably
colder here. We're at a much higher elevation than NYC. Last winter
we had several mornings below zero, a couple of times at -10. Even in
a protected environment I am quite sure a Kingsville would not survive
a winter outdoors here. Even my Ilex crenata didn't make it and it
was pretty well protected. I also lost a few small Chinese Elms and
another died back to the base, and all were protected. People here
tell me that's the coldest it gets here, but I don't want to take any
chances. I find my Kingsvilles do quite well indoors after a month or
more of dormancy outside. The other problem is that I don't have an
area in the house or elsewhere that is dry and stays around 35F.
On another note, I would suggest that the larger leaves on the
Kingsville are the result of a little too much water and not the
result of fertilizing. I will post the styled tree for Bonsai Europe
with a close up of the foliage--the result of intensive feedings
throughout the 2004 growing season. Cordially, Michael
Persianomembers.aol.com/iasnob

That's a possibility I haven't thought about. The trees are in full
shade and I water pretty much every day. Would it be ok to cut back
on watering some? It isn't a serious problem--I just get a flush of
growth like that occasionally. I cut it all off and no harm is
done. This happens, btw, on two out of three of my trees. The third
I've had longer and it doesn't produce these leaves.

I'll be looking forward to the pictures. When is the magazine going
to be available? I don't subscribe but I'd love to get a copy.

Craig Cowing
NY
Zone 5b/6a Sunset 37

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Craig writes:

Michael:

I guess you're not familiar with my area. Despite the fact that I'm
only 1.5 hours away from downtown Manhattan, it gets considerably
colder here. We're at a much higher elevation than NYC. Last winter
we had several mornings below zero, a couple of times at -10. Even in
a protected environment I am quite sure a Kingsville would not survive
a winter outdoors here. Even my Ilex crenata didn't make it and it
was pretty well protected. I also lost a few small Chinese Elms and
another died back to the base, and all were protected. People here
tell me that's the coldest it gets here, but I don't want to take any
chances. I find my Kingsvilles do quite well indoors after a month or
more of dormancy outside. The other problem is that I don't have an
area in the house or elsewhere that is dry and stays around 35F.

Craig:

If it works, don't fix it. Last winter challenged all of our trees, and I know of few people who did not incur some level of damage.

That's a possibility I haven't thought about. The trees are in full
shade and I water pretty much every day. Would it be ok to cut back
on watering some? It isn't a serious problem--I just get a flush of
growth like that occasionally. I cut it all off and no harm is
done. This happens, btw, on two out of three of my trees. The third
I've had longer and it doesn't produce these leaves.

Craig:

Your watering habits may be fine. I am suggesting that most of the bonsai with oversized leaves and unusually long needles are the result of overwatering. I would suggest experimenting with less water and recording the results. Frankly, slightly oversized leaves and needles do not bother me aesthetically if the tree as a whole is large enough to accommodate them from a visual/artistic perspective.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
members.aol.com/iasnob

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