----- Original Message -----

Subject: [IBC] Satsuki problem - bark splitting

Kevin said:
I can't say if this happens in a free draining soil as I have yet to
transfer any of my Satsuki over to expensive Japanese proprietary brands
such as Kanuma. Mine are grown in peat and bark based mixtures which
can't really be described as free draining.


The Japanese soils are poor vehicles for the transfer of fertilizer, and
for this reason frequent flushing of fertilizer and the addition of organic
content (from cakes) is an excellent practice. However, the 300 year old
azalea was planted in a standard mix of turface, haydite, orchid bark, and
coarse sand.
Cordially,
Michael Persiano

Mike,
I'm kind of suprised to read that you use a similar mix to what I've been
using for 25 years ( except I don't use the turface with haydite). I thought
I had read in the past that you used Japanese soils on azaleas. Maybe I'm
wrong. BTW, with our freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw Ohio winters the japanese soils
quickly turn to mush. I've seen a few REALLY nice trees dead over winter and
when pulled out in spring it looked like two-year-old cat litter sopping
mush!
My normal soil FOR EVERYTHING ( Including azaleas) is haydite, large
silica sand, orchid bark and either a LITTLE forest humus or decompossed
pine bark ( whichever I manage to find when I need it all of a sudden). For
last couple years I also add in a SMALL amount of a product from our sewage
plant which is a composted sawdust/bark and "waste". good stuff, we used to
till it into our city flower beds every Spring here in Akron. Maybe a couple
coffee cans to a wheelbarrow. They say to keep below 15% of mix, so no
problem.
With the exception of the recent "black magic" :) I've used that for many
years now.
Heck, I don't even cover the tops of my azalea pots with magic Japanese
sphagnum moss :)
My teacher, Keith Scott, FOREVER used a mixture of turface, silica sand and
pro-mix, on everything! After turface became "found" locally for bonsai
mix ( By Tony Mihalik BTW) he/we used that usually instead of turface.
Easier to get and cheaper. I still remember a huge pile of haydite in Keiths
drive for a long time!
BTW, I NEVER saw Keith sift soil...ever! and, in 25 years I can say that
I've also NEVER sifted a cup of soil.
People are always astounded when I tell them that :)
FYI, for screen I use 1/4" or 1/8" hardware cloth. except for the last year
I've been using up some of that stamped screen for masonry. I had a bunch
left after chimney repairs and couldn't just throw it out! Works fine but
rusts out much quicker than galvanized hardware cloth will last.
As per cakes, yep I like useing mine ( poo ball mix on my webpages) when I
can afford the time to get batches made, ( people keep asking for them but
they take second seat to pottery time) otherwise I use plain old
Miraclegrow.
One last thing ( always gets people as much as not sifting :)
When I bare root collected stuff to remove clay-ee field soil and pot up in
larger training pots I use a mix of haydite and what-ever kind of smallest
pine bark I can find at the nursery for cheap. I produce roots faster in
this than any bonsai mix I use, AND it's cheaper/easier/quicker to mix, just
doesn't look as nice. The times I've used pre-mixed bagged bonsai soils ( in
'95 when I had a store and used more soil than I could get mixed up myself)
I never got rooting as good as the cheap and dirty haydite/bark mix.. I use
miracle grow with this often for developement.
Go figure!
Regards,
Dale " How can I use unsifted soil?" Cochoy
Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio
http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com
Specializing in power wood carving tools.
Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware

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In a message dated 5/22/2004 12:10:31 PM Eastern Standard Time,
writes:
Mike,
I'm kind of suprised to read that you use a similar mix to what I've been
using for 25 years ( except I don't use the turface with haydite). I thought
I had read in the past that you used Japanese soils on azaleas. Maybe I'm
wrong. BTW, with our freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw Ohio winters the japanese soils
quickly turn to mush. I've seen a few REALLY nice trees dead over winter and
when pulled out in spring it looked like two-year-old cat litter sopping
mush!
Dale:

In general, I am using Akadama with the Japanese Pines. I would have to
agree with you that these soils do not hold up over the long haul; however, I have
yet to see such outstanding root development in Pines with high-aggregate
based soil mixes.

The outcome is more frequent soil changes. As for the impact of winter on
Akadama, the Japanese White Pines potted in this soil were frozen for
approximately 2-3 months with no adverse effects on their health.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano
hometown.aol.com/iasnob

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----- Original Message -----
From:
To: ;
Sent: Monday, May 24, 2004 5:50 AM
Subject: [IBC] Satsuki problem, soils ( I changed the title as subject drifted)


In a message dated 5/22/2004 12:10:31 PM Eastern Standard Time, writes:
Mike,
I'm kind of suprised to read that you use a similar mix to what I've been
using for 25 years ( except I don't use the turface with haydite). I thought
I had read in the past that you used Japanese soils on azaleas. Maybe I'm
wrong. BTW, with our freeze/thaw/freeze/thaw Ohio winters the japanese soils
quickly turn to mush. I've seen a few REALLY nice trees dead over winter and
when pulled out in spring it looked like two-year-old cat litter sopping
mush!
Dale:

In general, I am using Akadama with the Japanese Pines. I would have to agree with you that these soils do not hold up over the long haul; however, I have yet to see such outstanding root development in Pines with high-aggregate based soil mixes.

The outcome is more frequent soil changes. As for the impact of winter on Akadama, the Japanese White Pines potted in this soil were frozen for approximately 2-3 months with no adverse effects on their health.

Cordially,

Michael Persiano


Mike,
OK,
You stated,
it doesn't hold up long,
better root developement on pines,
more frequent soil changes,
no adverse effects on white pines after 2-3 months of freezing.

I certainly can't argue those points 'cause I don't grow Japanese white pines and I have nothing here potted in Japanese clays.

I'll still stay away though :)
I was just giving my opinion on what I've SEEN here in NE Ohio. and, after 25 years of using my soils I'm probably not going to buy a bunch of expensive Japanese soils, ( not to mention buying some Japanese White Pines ) to check it out further. :)

Does that make me stubborn?
:)

Dale

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Jim if you want that color you'll have to wait, or add soy sauce and a
dash of molasses.

The true color and bouquet are result of decomposition.

A Fish Emulsion Recipe:

http://tinyurl.com/2vupb

Regards,

Matt


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----- Original Message -----
From: "TreeBay" Subject: [IBC] Satsuki problem, soils ( I changed the
title as subject drifted)


Jim if you want that color you'll have to wait, or add soy sauce and a
dash of molasses.
The true color and bouquet are result of decomposition.
A Fish Emulsion Recipe:
http://tinyurl.com/2vupb
Regards,
Matt


Speaking of molasses....
I use quite a bit of that ALASKA brand "start-up" ( which they say includes
some B1 BTW). It's cheap and I use it in a big tub outside sometimes when
I'm soaking b&b stuff I've bare rooted before I pot it.
Anyway, after it sits for a week or so in the tub outside it smells
amazingly like my new home basement sump pump floor crock did when I moved
in after the workers all pee'd in it for 4 months while they built the
house!!....
so...
It MUST be great stuff!
:(
Dale Cochoy, Wild Things Bonsai Studio, Hartville, Ohio
http://www.WildThingsBonsai.Com
Specializing in power wood carving tools.
Yakimono no Kokoro bonsai pottery of hand-built stoneware

************************************************** ******************************
++++Sponsored, in part, by John Quinn++++
************************************************** ******************************
-- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ --
+++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++