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#1
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[IBC] Off topics
I´m getting really tired of all these off topics posted on this list.
BUT EVEN MORE SO ALL THOSE PEOPLE RESPONDING TO OFF TOPIC SUBJECTS! (Yes I´m screaming at you!). This is an american list so we all just have to accept Seasonsgreetings, 4th of july greetings and thanksgivings greetings. Sometimes other off topics comes upp as well as the one with american soldiers, OK so what, it is an american list. But please, please respond in private to off topic subject, whether you think its good or not. Jim used to keep this list in a thight leash, but I think it´s slacking. This fall there has been more and more off topic discussions. If this dosen´t stop this will be my last post to this list (if anyone cares ;-)). And please respond to me off list If you have a problem with it, OK! (Yeah, yeah I know I´m no better posting this message so you don´t have to write and tell me) Henrik Gistvall, Uppsala, Sweden ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#2
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Henrik Gistvall wrote:
This is an american list... No it isn't. This is the kind of ignorance that leads to these messages being posted in the first place. If you want less spam, don't post any. Richard -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#3
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On 5 Jan 2005 at 12:14, Richard Patefield wrote:
Henrik Gistvall wrote: This is an american list... Richard interjected: No it isn't. I assert: Well, if you snipped apart all of the membership addresses, and put them into a balance -- USAians in one side and everyone else in the other -- I'm afraid that the balance _would_ tilt to the USAian side. It certainly would tilt to the side of members for whom English is the primary language. That said, it is the only mailing list/newsgroup (organization) with a truly international membership. (I know of Italian-, Spanish- and Portuguese-speaking bonsai lists, and there probably are others. But they're quite a bit smaller than the IBC.) And, since it is directly connected to a USENET news group, we on the mailing list just have to put up with the occasional "troll" (troublemaker) who drifts by with the sole purpose of causing trouble by crossposting to as many newsgroups as possible. You usually can spot these by the subject line and if you only want to talk bonsai you can delete those which are not on that subject without opening them. And Henrik, you CERTAINLY do not have to look at any web page they point you at. (That could be a dangerous move, anyway, since that page could be filled with all kinds of viruses and other nasties.) But, as Henrik says, you certainly should NOT respond on the list because those people will only laugh. They check in to the news group occasionally to laugh at the trouble they cause (and if they were very successful, that encourages them to post AGAIN). Respond to them directly if you MUST, but that also only encourages them -- assuming they use a real address. The best bet: IGNORE them. Hit DELETE and go on with your life. The list managers sometimes warn you not to respond, but that just clutters things up too and is the same thing as responding. So usually, you never heard from me, as you don't hear from Shelly now. We just hope(ed) that common sense would prevail. If they (the trolls) keep on trying, the list manager can keep those messages from reaching the list -- unless someone from the newsgroup responds. If we behave, however, they'll learn that we're too smart for them and won't bother. (hint) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - List Manager emeritus ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#4
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Hello all!
While it is not an "American" list, Henrik has a genuine point. Even lurkers like myself have considered unsubscribing from the list at times due to the "relative" proliferation of off-topic religious/cultural/political discussions. These appear to be propagated by seemingly just a few members, not just trolls as Jim describes. Richard is right, rec.arts.bonsai contributes largely to this and dumping it might be an option, but this is just a part. This has been a fabulous forum for bonsai information. Having a multitude of professional and/or experienced opinions is critical to learning about bonsai, but some posters might choose better self-restraint. Anytime politics or religion of any type are mixed in a public forum, opinions will be voiced. I hope Henrik's message helps everyone to evaluate their own posting protocol and sensitivities. Best wishes, -Wendy ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#5
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On 5 Jan 2005 at 14:41, Richard Patefield wrote:
Hello Jim and others, Get rid of the link to usenet and you can get rid of spam and trolls. Keep it and you are forever stuck with them on the list.. All my inbox spam comes from posting to the bonsai list. We post to the list, our email addresses go into usenet, they are harvested and we get the Cheap Rolex, Viagra, Enhancement, 419 Fraud etc emails. The link should be broken. As far as I can recall we only keep it because some users don't like a high volume list. There are 500 members of the list. I've estimatred over the years that the newsgroup adds almost that much -- as well as almost ALL of the newcomers to the art that we're trying to help -- and attract. So I've never considered that a real option. If you have good spam filters, a good ISP (NOT AOL, MSN etc.), and spyware/virus protection all the newsgroup adds is a little aggravation on fairly rare occasions. There may be some liability incurred by the IBC by the act of forwarding mails to usenet. The list is giving the spambots the users' addresses and exposing all of us to the risks so often pointed out in these conversations. Phoo! Who's liable? And for- what? We don't exist as a formal group. And people use the I'net purely at their own risk and have back as far as I've been involved and that's a LONG time. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#6
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Hey, Wendy! I hope you continue to lurk. You can tell that it's winter
time. The bonsai are in the ground or in cold frames, so some of our correspondents grab us to harp on their favorite isms. My favorite is Humanism, but I won't get started on that thread here. Anyway, I've got work to do. Its time to work on my February newsletter. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Wendy Fissel" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 05, 2005 9:56 AM Subject: [IBC] Off topics (longish) Hello all! While it is not an "American" list, Henrik has a genuine point. Even lurkers like myself have considered unsubscribing from the list at times due to the "relative" proliferation of off-topic religious/cultural/political discussions. These appear to be propagated by seemingly just a few members, not just trolls as Jim describes. Richard is right, rec.arts.bonsai contributes largely to this and dumping it might be an option, but this is just a part. This has been a fabulous forum for bonsai information. Having a multitude of professional and/or experienced opinions is critical to learning about bonsai, but some posters might choose better self-restraint. Anytime politics or religion of any type are mixed in a public forum, opinions will be voiced. I hope Henrik's message helps everyone to evaluate their own posting protocol and sensitivities. Best wishes, -Wendy ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#8
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On 5 Jan 2005 at 22:27, Richard Patefield wrote:
wrote about the contribution of the usenet group to our community: There are 500 members of the list. I've estimatred over the years that the newsgroup adds almost that much -- as well as almost ALL of the newcomers to the art that we're trying to help -- and attract. The truth is that noone knows how many people read or post to the newsgroup. Ackshully, after being on this list as long as I have been, and being manager of the list for 2/3 of that time, I've gone over the list of mail subscribers often enough to know it by heart. I also know the regulars to the group who are NOT on the list, and can identify the newbies who arrive crying for help. It only takes a LITTLE thought to figure it out, Richard (and the ability to go behind the list scenes that regular members don't have. ;-) Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#9
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What evidence is there that the link between the IBC email list and
rec.arts.bonsai does any good for the list, the IBC, bonsai in general or anything touching on our subject? respectfully, Richard -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#10
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What evidence is there that the link between the IBC email list and
rec.arts.bonsai does any good for the list, the IBC, bonsai in general or anything touching on our subject? respectfully, Richard -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.300 / Virus Database: 265.6.8 - Release Date: 1/3/2005 ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#11
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The bonsai are in the ground or in cold frames, so some of our
correspondents grab us to harp on their favorite isms. And my favorite ism here is grow-bonsai-all-year-long ism. Nowadays, no matter how traditional you are, you can grow real bonsai indoors in the winter, just not traditional Japanese species (except Serissa). Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense." - Woody Allen |
#12
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The bonsai are in the ground or in cold frames, so some of our
correspondents grab us to harp on their favorite isms. And my favorite ism here is grow-bonsai-all-year-long ism. Nowadays, no matter how traditional you are, you can grow real bonsai indoors in the winter, just not traditional Japanese species (except Serissa). Iris, Central NY, Zone 5a, Sunset Zone 40 "A tree never hits an automobile except in self defense." - Woody Allen |
#13
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Richard Patefield wrote:
What evidence is there that the link between the IBC email list and rec.arts.bonsai does any good for the list, the IBC, bonsai in general or anything touching on our subject? respectfully, Richard Hi Richard, The rec.arts group is searchable back at least a number of years thru any Web search engine, and that's an advantage to the hobby. And, as Jim L. pointed out, many newbies who have no reason to suspect the mailing list exists (and no reason to want 20-50 emails a day!) first ask questions thru the easily-discoverable newsgroup. Encouraging newbies benefits the hobby 'cause we were all new once! Anita --- Northern Harford County, Maryland, USDA zone 6 "I am not bound for any public place, but for ground of my own where I have planted vines and orchard trees, and in the heat of the day climbed up into the healing shadow of the woods. Better than any argument is to rise at dawn and pick dew-wet red berries in a cup." ~Wendell Berry ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#14
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Richard Patefield wrote:
What evidence is there that the link between the IBC email list and rec.arts.bonsai does any good for the list, the IBC, bonsai in general or anything touching on our subject? respectfully, Richard Hi Richard, The rec.arts group is searchable back at least a number of years thru any Web search engine, and that's an advantage to the hobby. And, as Jim L. pointed out, many newbies who have no reason to suspect the mailing list exists (and no reason to want 20-50 emails a day!) first ask questions thru the easily-discoverable newsgroup. Encouraging newbies benefits the hobby 'cause we were all new once! Anita --- Northern Harford County, Maryland, USDA zone 6 "I am not bound for any public place, but for ground of my own where I have planted vines and orchard trees, and in the heat of the day climbed up into the healing shadow of the woods. Better than any argument is to rise at dawn and pick dew-wet red berries in a cup." ~Wendell Berry ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
#15
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On 5 Jan 2005 at 23:24, Richard Patefield wrote:
What evidence is there that the link between the IBC email list and rec.arts.bonsai does any good for the list, the IBC, bonsai in general or anything touching on our subject? respectfully, Richard It depends on what you want for the list. If you want an elitist group, where experienced bonsiests talk only with experienced bonsaiests you would drop RAB. (Or you would hang out exclusively on the "Main Gallery" on our IBC gallery an pound each other on the back for all their "great" trees.) If you want to help newcomers, puzzled neophytes whose Serissa just dropped all its leaves, and encourage these folks to join the sport of bonsai you would enjoy it. Depends on how selfish you are, I guess. But since dropping the news group isn't an issue I don't know why we're discussing this. Jim Lewis - - Tallahassee, FL - Nature encourages no looseness, pardons no errors. Ralph Waldo Emerson ************************************************** ****************************** ++++Sponsored, in part, by Boon Manakitivipart++++ ************************************************** ****************************** -- The IBC HOME PAGE & FAQ: http://www.internetbonsaiclub.org/ -- +++++ Questions? Help? e-mail +++++ |
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