hi ive just got an allotment for me and my son who is 9yrs old ive no idea on gardening or growing stuff . the allotment hasnt been used for a couple of years and was covered in brambles and weeds ive removed all of them to ground level and they are now comming back up .iam thinking of using round up on them now and leaving for a week or so then spreading some manure over the site then covering it over with plastic sheeting . i can then get somebody to plough then rotivate it for a small charge is this a good idea as i want to get it looking workable a.s.a.p. so my son dosent loose interest [he has a.d.h.d.] i think it could be great for him giving him a hobby and somwhere to burn off steam PLSE HELP!!!!!!!

In article ,
dave n cally wrote:

hi ive just got an allotment for me and my son who is 9yrs old ive no
idea on gardening or growing stuff . the allotment hasnt been used for
a couple of years and was covered in brambles and weeds ive removed all
of them to ground level and they are now comming back up .iam thinking
of using round up on them now and leaving for a week or so then
spreading some manure over the site then covering it over with plastic
sheeting . i can then get somebody to plough then rotivate it for a
small charge is this a good idea as i want to get it looking workable
a.s.a.p. so my son dosent loose interest [he has a.d.h.d.] i think it
could be great for him giving him a hobby and somwhere to burn off
steam PLSE HELP!!!!!!!

Be advised that Roundup is highly controversial, see
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roundup. Any toxic effects would most
likely manifest themselves in your son, who is still in his maturation
process.

I would recommend that you use the no dig, lasagna technique and cover
the allotment with cardboard or several layers of newspaper, cover with
compost (if possible), sprinkle on some bone meal, spread a layer of
manure (to taste), and cover with mulch.

Get a copy of "Teaming with Microbes" (check library), and figure out
what you want to plant in the spring.
--
FB - FFF

Billy

Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights.
Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight.
- Bob Marley

"dave n cally" wrote in message
hi ive just got an allotment for me and my son who is 9yrs old ive no
idea on gardening or growing stuff . the allotment hasnt been used for
a couple of years and was covered in brambles and weeds ive removed all
of them to ground level and they are now comming back up .iam thinking
of using round up on them now and leaving for a week or so then
spreading some manure over the site then covering it over with plastic
sheeting . i can then get somebody to plough then rotivate it for a
small charge is this a good idea as i want to get it looking workable
a.s.a.p. so my son dosent loose interest [he has a.d.h.d.] i think it
could be great for him giving him a hobby and somwhere to burn off
steam PLSE HELP!!!!!!!

You are learning the first lesson of gardening - how to cope with weeds.

I wouldn't advice using Roundup in a food garden or if you have a child
whose condition may be sensitive to modern day chemicals, just plug away at
the soil preparation and get that right from the start. As (and if) you
continue your gardening life, you will find that the soil is the MOST
important part of gardening and growing stuff comes secondary over time. By
that I mean that you will learn that if your soil is right, then you will
never have any trouble growing things (if you don't try to grow things that
are either out of season or not suited to your climate)

thanx for the reply [not cheared me up though ] the ground is rock hard and undigable so would the second part of my plan be a good idea spreading manure over the site leaving it covered with a plastic sheet untill i can get it rotivated i already have the sheet enough to cover the whole plot .i got that f.o.c. from my brother inlaw i thought it may make it easier to tackle the weeds as it would be easier to dig? another idea i have is to make raised beds and move the weed free soil into these but put cardboard under the weeded soil to prevent any coming back up ? would 6 inches be high enough ? i could add extra [6inches] on top in a year or twos time

thanx for the reply [not cheared me up though ] the ground is rock hard and undigable so would the second part of my plan be a good idea spreading manure over the site leaving it covered with a plastic sheet untill i can get it rotivated i already have the sheet enough to cover the whole plot .i got that f.o.c. from my brother inlaw i thought it may make it easier to tackle the weeds as it would be easier to dig? another idea i have is to make raised beds and move the weed free soil into these but put cardboard under the weeded soil to prevent any coming back up ? would 6 inches be high enough ? i could add extra [6inches] on top in a year or twos time. I can also get fresh wood chip to make the paths with, some stuff that looks like compost that comes out of a paddock and also used in stables. Would this be any good? Also could you tell me what you would recommend as a mulch?

dave n cally wrote:
thanx for the reply [not cheared me up though ] the ground is rock hard
and undigable so would the second part of my plan be a good idea
spreading manure over the site leaving it covered with a plastic sheet
untill i can get it rotivated i already have the sheet enough to cover
the whole plot .i got that f.o.c. from my brother inlaw i thought it
may make it easier to tackle the weeds as it would be easier to dig?
another idea i have is to make raised beds and move the weed free soil
into these but put cardboard under the weeded soil to prevent any
coming back up ? would 6 inches be high enough ? i could add extra
[6inches] on top in a year or twos time





What about raised beds?

"dave n cally" wrote in message

thanx for the reply [not cheared me up though ] the ground is rock hard
and undigable so would the second part of my plan be a good idea
spreading manure over the site leaving it covered with a plastic sheet
untill i can get it rotivated i already have the sheet enough to cover
the whole plot .i got that f.o.c. from my brother inlaw i thought it
may make it easier to tackle the weeds as it would be easier to dig?
another idea i have is to make raised beds and move the weed free soil
into these but put cardboard under the weeded soil to prevent any
coming back up ? would 6 inches be high enough ? i could add extra
[6inches] on top in a year or twos time

No soil is so bad that it can't be improved. I started my vegetable bed by
digging a plot about 6 ft long and about 3 ft wide - for several years it
was known as "the Tomb of the Unknown Gardener". I dug this in what was
rough native pasture grass in "soil" that had first ever in history been
cleared of trees in the late 1960s. No soil improvement had ever been done
on it and I have to say that it was bloody ghastly - it was pale yellow in
colour, it was like concrete and I never saw a worm for several years. I
worked for days with a pick doing half inch indentations and then putting a
sprinkler on and going back the next day to do a few more half inch pick
indentations etc. My Brother in law eventually took pity on me and helped
me get it down about 4 inches into the ground. My soil is now full of worms
and getting to be a good dark chocolate colour but still has further to go.
I use mountains of manure of any sort I can get my hands on.

My advice would be to make sure the soil is very moist and if it isn't moist
then water it or do as I did with my pick before watering, put on as much
poop as you can get your hands on, cover it with the plastic and leave it as
long as you can. If you can get to the allotment and pull back the plastic
and rake back the poop, dig by hand with a fork a small section at a time
and then rake back the poop when you are done and put the plastic back and
keep doing that till you've done the whole area. I recomend this because as
you a re in the UK, you are in winter and now is a good time to let the poop
sit and let the worms get to it. Learn about worms, they are your friends
in the garden as is all soil biota. The soil biota all do a huge amount of
work for you and you want to encourage them by disturbing them as little as
possible and machines do disturb them. Do everything you can to encourage
the build up of that soil life. If your plot has had blackbverries on it,
then as irritating as they are to get rid of, they do improve the soil.
also if it has been an allotment in the past, it should have had some soil
imporvement done on it so you shouldn'be be too discouraged.

I know this cite won't fit the situation you find yourself in, but this site
has been inspirational to me in the past and may help you realise that it
CAN be done with a bit of patience and by working with nature, not against
it. Start small, don't bite off more than you can chew and just keep at it,
bit by bit. The more you learn the more you'll realise what a satisfying
(if occasionally infuriating) hobby you have taken on.
http://www.rosneath.com.au/ipc6/ch02/withers/index.html

"dave n cally" wrote in message
...

hi ive just got an allotment for me and my son who is 9yrs old ive no
idea on gardening or growing stuff . the allotment hasnt been used for
a couple of years and was covered in brambles and weeds ive removed all
of them to ground level and they are now comming back up .iam thinking
of using round up on them now and leaving for a week or so then
spreading some manure over the site then covering it over with plastic
sheeting . i can then get somebody to plough then rotivate it for a
small charge is this a good idea as i want to get it looking workable
a.s.a.p. so my son dosent loose interest [he has a.d.h.d.] i think it
could be great for him giving him a hobby and somwhere to burn off
steam PLSE HELP!!!!!!!

one thing to consider clearing an overgrown garden is how much space are you
going to use in your first year. You can slash everything down but if you
don't use it then the regrowth will simply come back. If you plan to leave
part of the area fallow and grow on the rest, why use round up to kill the
residual rubbish? Simply keep it covered for a season or 2 will deal to most
weeds without the need of any weedkiller. Slash away the weeds and on the
area you do not want to use chuck a good layer of poop across it and then
cover with something that will block light. Black plastic will be ok but
better still some old wool carpet or (better still) hessian type carpet
underlay. That will be heavier than plastic and will itself degrade
improving your soil. Don't bother with synthetics. You could also use well
weighed down large cardboard boxes. The weeds will die through lack of light
and when you want to get the rest of the land into production chances are
you will find a nice growing medium underneath the mulch. I have done this
and didn't need to use chemicals. The lack of light cleared the weeds.

rob

thanx 2 all for your replies upto date . inow have a good idea on what to do .im going to BAN THE ROUND UP IDEA ! That seems to make very good sense. im going to use my plastic sheet to cover manure that im going to spread [ive allready got the sheet 100square metres] then start on a little bit at a time im only going to aim at getting less than half done at the moment it is 21 metres long by 6 metres wide in total so if i only aim at doing a bit ive got plenty to be going on with!!!!!!!!!! expect a lot more questions in the near future. WATCH THIS SPACE

On Nov 1, 12:19 pm, dave n cally dave.n.cally.
wrote:
thanx 2 all for your replies upto date . inow have a good idea on what
to do .im going to BAN THE ROUND UP IDEA ! That seems to make very good
sense. im going to use my plastic sheet to cover manure that im going to
spread [ive allready got the sheet 100square metres] then start on a
little bit at a time im only going to aim at getting less than half
done at the moment it is 21 metres long by 6 metres wide in total so if
i only aim at doing a bit ive got plenty to be going on with!!!!!!!!!!
expect a lot more questions in the near future. WATCH THIS SPACE

--
dave n cally

Covering the whole thing up is not going to be very interesting to a
9year old boy. Leave a little uncovered and you can use it for
"experiments" in the mean time. Dump a bunch of water on it so that
you will be able to turn it over and see if there are any worms or
bugs. Get a pH testing kit and try it. Try planting some of the
things that are almost guaranteed to come up: radishes and garlic are
pretty sure bets. Get a live Christmas tree this year and plant it in
the allotment (if that's allowed).

Good luck,
Susan B.

dave n cally wrote:
thanx 2 all for your replies upto date . inow have a good idea on what
to do .im going to BAN THE ROUND UP IDEA ! That seems to make very good
sense. im going to use my plastic sheet to cover manure that im going to
spread [ive allready got the sheet 100square metres] then start on a
little bit at a time im only going to aim at getting less than half
done at the moment it is 21 metres long by 6 metres wide in total so if
i only aim at doing a bit ive got plenty to be going on with!!!!!!!!!!
expect a lot more questions in the near future. WATCH THIS SPACE


I was sort of terse in my suggestion, and I am inexperienced, but when I
said raised beds, I had in mind you just putting in a small raised bed
to get started, and hopefully the soil underneath it would start getting
"worked on". You could even put the manure in the bottom of a bed, and
put some planting medium on top of that.

You can still work on the rest of it too, in the way you describe above.

[hi all ive made a start now ive spead manure on top of most of my plot about 75% as ive been told carrots etc dont like fertyile soil ive covered it all with my plastic sheet .im going to leave it now till a bloke is going to plough then rotivate it for £30 i will then cover it back over . iam then going to start making raised beds 6 inch high . ive asked my local tescos to save me as much cardboard as poss. this i will put at the bottom of my raised beds and move soil that i will weed as im moving it jnto the beds . this will leave me short of soil for the last beds and as im a hard landscaper by trade i will take my pick of any good soil that i would normally throw in a skip . by doing this it will save me £100 at least on skips that will round about pay for the gravel boards for my raised beds .in true allotment style doing it for little or no pay out!!!!!!

hi all ive made a start now ive spead manure on top of most of my plot about 75% as ive been told carrots etc dont like fertyile soil ive covered it all with my plastic sheet .im going to leave it now till a bloke is going to plough then rotivate it for £30 i will then cover it back over . iam then going to start making raised beds 6 inch high . ive asked my local tescos to save me as much cardboard as poss. this i will put at the bottom of my raised beds and move soil that i will weed as im moving it jnto the beds . this will leave me short of soil for the last beds and as im a hard landscaper by trade i will take my pick of any good soil that i would normally throw in a skip . by doing this it will save me £100 at least on skips that will round about pay for the gravel boards for my raised beds .in true allotment style doing it for little or no pay out!!!!!!

In article ,
dave n cally wrote:

[hi all ive made a start now ive spead manure on top of most of my plot
about 75% as ive been told carrots etc dont like fertyile soil ive
covered it all with my plastic sheet .im going to leave it now till a
bloke is going to plough then rotivate it for £30 i will then cover it
back over . iam then going to start making raised beds 6 inch high .
ive asked my local tescos to save me as much cardboard as poss. this i
will put at the bottom of my raised beds and move soil that i will weed
as im moving it jnto the beds . this will leave me short of soil for the
last beds and as im a hard landscaper by trade i will take my pick of
any good soil that i would normally throw in a skip . by doing this it
will save me £100 at least on skips that will round about pay for the
gravel boards for my raised beds .in true allotment style doing it for
little or no pay out!!!!!!

A landscaper you say? Look into, no dig, "lasagna gardening". Check out
a book from your local library called "Teaming with Microbes" to gain an
understanding of what soil is and what you are doing and, for god's
sake, get some English lessons.
--
Bush Behind Bars

Billy

Get up, stand up, stand up for your rights.
Get up, stand up, Don't give up the fight.
- Bob Marley

sorry about my typing and grammar but i am a brain dead block paver .i will see if i can get said book thanx