"enigma" wrote in message
. ..
"Katey Didd" wrote in
:


Zucchini and yellow crooknecks don't really have vines.
They're more bush shaped.

oh! you're planting bush squash... that's different, then.
yes, it's *much* harder to find & control borers & they're
much more likely to destroy the entire plant. that's why i
don't grow bush type squash. both zuchinni & yellow crookneck
should be available as vining type, but you may need to look
for heirloom seeds.

Thanks. We may look into it for next year.


lee
--
Last night while sitting in my chair
I pinged a host that wasn't there
It wasn't there again today
The host resolved to NSA.

Katey Didd wrote:

"enigma" wrote in message
. ..
"Katey Didd" wrote in
:


Zucchini and yellow crooknecks don't really have vines.
They're more bush shaped.

oh! you're planting bush squash... that's different, then.
yes, it's *much* harder to find & control borers & they're
much more likely to destroy the entire plant. that's why i
don't grow bush type squash. both zuchinni & yellow crookneck
should be available as vining type, but you may need to look
for heirloom seeds.

Thanks. We may look into it for next year.


http://www.victoryseeds.com/catalog/...sh_summer.html

"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...
Katey Didd said:



"Pat Kiewicz" wrote in message
...

Are the eggs right above the ground on the main stalk?

Anywhere along the main stem where it makes contact with the ground.
You need to lift the plant up and move it around a bit to do a thorough
inspection. And you need to start looking for eggs long before you
would expect to see the plants drooping or lots of frass oozing out
of the stems.

I've noticed that the moths quite often lay their eggs on the leaf stems
of zucchinis as well as on the main stem.


Another tip: sometimes the eggs are laid slightly *below* ground level.
(This is one reason why, if you use a pesticide, it should be in a
liquid
form rather than dust: you need to have it run down the stem to
reach below the soil surface.)

That's good to know. G


Eventually the first generation of moths will taper off, and the vines
will
have run around a lot and will have rooted at enough points to get by
even if they have a few borers.

What kind of squash vines are you talking about?

These would be winter squashes. Many of these could be harvested small
and green as summer squashes, though. Mini-pumpkins and delicata
squashes are C. pepo squashes, just like zucchini and crooknecks.
Zucchetta rampicante tromboncino is a running squash that is usually
grown as a summer squash. I've grown these before. Very productive,
huge fruit--way too much summer squash for me!

There are also edible gourds that are runners that can be used like
summer squash. Snake gourds (Trichosanthes anguina) and luffas
(Luffa cylindrica) can be eaten when small. Johnny's Selected Seeds
(http://www.johnnyseeds.com) carries some edible gourd varieties.
I'm trying out a luffa ('Rama') this summer myself. I'm trellising it
in space that might otherwise have gone to another hill of zucchini.


Bush squash are a tougher problem, being hard to inspect. I've toyed
with the idea of growing them up a short, heavy stake but haven't
ever actually done that. Usually by the time they fall to borers, I've
had my fill of zuchinnis (the only bush-types I grow).

Lucky you! By the time we harvest only a few, the borers get them.
Slitting the stalk never helps.

No, it wouldn't with bush squash. You could try using a fine wire
with a hook on the end to fish them out. Or you could use a syringe
to inject BT or beneficial nematodes into the vine. I used to do that
(and it did help) before I learned to identify the eggs and and pick
those off. You need a big bore needle, which you should be able
to get at an equine supply place.

Thanks. I have one of those huge needles. Like I said. I'll try the
suggestion of a tinfoil collar, egg hunting, Sevin dust etc on the stem. If
the problem still occurs I'll give up on squash. I hunt the seed racks here
and they just have the common varieties. We spend so much money on the
gardens already I fear my husband will object to buying seeds from catalogs
or online. The prices are always so much higher. Retired, we're on a limited
income now.




--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

After enlightenment, the laundry.

Katey Didd wrote:
Thanks. I have one of those huge needles. Like I said. I'll try the
suggestion of a tinfoil collar, egg hunting, Sevin dust etc on the
stem. If the problem still occurs I'll give up on squash. I hunt
the seed racks here and they just have the common varieties. We spend
so much money on the gardens already I fear my husband will object to
buying seeds from catalogs or online. The prices are always so much
higher. Retired, we're on a limited income now.



You might try Spaghetti Squash then. They run like pumpkins, so they
should send down roots at each node (if they do get a borer, they still
have enough roots that it doesn't matter)

Bob

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 10 May 2008 21:52:26 -0500, "Katey Didd"
wrote:

Ironite.........

Uh oh...ironite. Of course, if you are using Sevin, Ironite is likely
of no concern to you.

Care
Charlie

What Charlie is trying to say in his own inimitable way is the presence
of heavy metals in Ironite(R) has resulted in its banning in Canada and
lawsuits in the United States due to the potential release of heavy
metals, most notably arsenic and lead.
http://www.epa.gov/nrmrl/lrpcd/wm/projects/135367.htm
and with respect to Sevin
one Canadian environmental organization in a letter addressed to local
citizens cites some of the 'documented' effects of carbaryl.

1. It causes birth defects in mammals, especially dogs.
2. It worsens the condition of people with hypertension and people on
anti-depressant drugs.
3. It impairs the function of the pituitary gland, the thyroid gland,
and the reproductive system.
4. It causes hyperactivity and learning disabilities in mammals.
5. It could increase the chance of heart attack in people with weak
hearts.
6. The main break-down product, nitrosocarbaryl, which is easily
created in the human gut, is a potent cancer-causing agent.
7. It causes irreversible chromosomal damage to human DNA (the genes
in our cells).
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/facts-sl...bre-sevin.html

At the veeeery least, Sevin is "extremely toxic" to bees. Spray or dust
with Sevin and you'll be doing the pollination of your squash yourself
or you won't have squash. Most of us in the gardening groups that ingest
the plants we grow, are organic gardeners because, in part, we don't
want to poison ourselves, or the environment. These two products seem
imminently capable of doing both.

Rest assured that you are not the first to propose them products and
most assuredly, you won't be the last.

Keep reading the posts here in rec.gardens and rec.gardens.edible, and
check out some books from the library, you'll get the hang of it.

Some titles that I would recommend:

Any book by
Rodale
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...ipbooks&field-
keywords=Rodale&x=0&y=0

How to Grow More Vegetables and Fruits
by John Jeavons
http://www.amazon.com/How-Grow-More-...80087965/ref=s
r_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543192&sr=1-1

The Vegetable Gardener's Bible by Edward C. Smith
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetable-Gard...Gardening/dp/1
580172121/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543343&sr=1-1

The above are how-to books.

The book below explains healthy (organic) soil.

Teaming with Microbes by by Jeff Lowenfels &, Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210542894&sr= 1-1

The book below tells us why we are organic.

The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals
by Michael Pollan
http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...ls/dp/01430385
83/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543426&sr=1-1

This is by no means a definitive list, and you will see other
recommendations in the news groups, but these books are a good place to
begin understanding your new hobby.
--

Billy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 10 May 2008 21:52:26 -0500, "Katey Didd"
wrote:

Ironite.........

Uh oh...ironite. Of course, if you are using Sevin, Ironite is likely
of no concern to you.

Care
Charlie

What Charlie is trying to say in his own inimitable way is the presence
of heavy metals in Ironite(R) has resulted in its banning in Canada and
lawsuits in the United States due to the potential release of heavy
metals, most notably arsenic and lead.
http://www.epa.gov/nrmrl/lrpcd/wm/projects/135367.htm
and with respect to Sevin
one Canadian environmental organization in a letter addressed to local
citizens cites some of the 'documented' effects of carbaryl.

1. It causes birth defects in mammals, especially dogs.
2. It worsens the condition of people with hypertension and people on
anti-depressant drugs.
3. It impairs the function of the pituitary gland, the thyroid gland,
and the reproductive system.
4. It causes hyperactivity and learning disabilities in mammals.
5. It could increase the chance of heart attack in people with weak
hearts.
6. The main break-down product, nitrosocarbaryl, which is easily
created in the human gut, is a potent cancer-causing agent.
7. It causes irreversible chromosomal damage to human DNA (the genes
in our cells).
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/facts-sl...bre-sevin.html

At the veeeery least, Sevin is "extremely toxic" to bees. Spray or dust
with Sevin and you'll be doing the pollination of your squash yourself
or you won't have squash. Most of us in the gardening groups that ingest
the plants we grow, are organic gardeners because, in part, we don't
want to poison ourselves, or the environment. These two products seem
imminently capable of doing both.

Rest assured that you are not the first to propose them products and
most assuredly, you won't be the last.

Keep reading the posts here in rec.gardens and rec.gardens.edible, and
check out some books from the library, you'll get the hang of it.

Some titles that I would recommend:

Any book by
Rodale
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...ipbooks&field-
keywords=Rodale&x=0&y=0

How to Grow More Vegetables and Fruits
by John Jeavons
http://www.amazon.com/How-Grow-More-...80087965/ref=s
r_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543192&sr=1-1

The Vegetable Gardener's Bible by Edward C. Smith
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetable-Gard...Gardening/dp/1
580172121/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543343&sr=1-1

The above are how-to books.

The book below explains healthy (organic) soil.

Teaming with Microbes by by Jeff Lowenfels &, Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210542894&sr= 1-1

The book below tells us why we are organic.

The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals
by Michael Pollan
http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...ls/dp/01430385
83/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543426&sr=1-1

This is by no means a definitive list, and you will see other
recommendations in the news groups, but these books are a good place to
begin understanding your new hobby.

I concur and think wow there is a lot to digest for young folks. If
you are not a reader and get your info via main media this almost never
shows up. No lobbyist I guess as no profiteering .
Historically family garden info was passed on by show and tell and see
results. I Think WW1 and WW2 disrupted this transfer of information in
a subtle way. We started to accept info from outsiders who had a larger
audience and were paid to display but had no contact with the
microclimates we live in.

Paranoid you bet!

Marshall McLuhan come to this mind.

Bill whose children never asked a question concerning growing things.
Perhaps they think it is a given? I don't know.

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Billy wrote:
In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 10 May 2008 21:52:26 -0500, "Katey Didd"
wrote:

Ironite.........
Uh oh...ironite. Of course, if you are using Sevin, Ironite is likely
of no concern to you.

Care
Charlie

What Charlie is trying to say in his own inimitable way is the presence
of heavy metals in Ironite(R) has resulted in its banning in Canada and
lawsuits in the United States due to the potential release of heavy
metals, most notably arsenic and lead.
http://www.epa.gov/nrmrl/lrpcd/wm/projects/135367.htm


Yep, I bought a bag of Ironite about 10 or 15 years ago, before the word
got out about how nasty the stuff is. I poured the whole bag down a
well to get rid of it. ;-)

Bob

In article ,
zxcvbob wrote:

Billy wrote:
In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 10 May 2008 21:52:26 -0500, "Katey Didd"
wrote:

Ironite.........
Uh oh...ironite. Of course, if you are using Sevin, Ironite is likely
of no concern to you.

Care
Charlie

What Charlie is trying to say in his own inimitable way is the presence
of heavy metals in Ironite(R) has resulted in its banning in Canada and
lawsuits in the United States due to the potential release of heavy
metals, most notably arsenic and lead.
http://www.epa.gov/nrmrl/lrpcd/wm/projects/135367.htm


Yep, I bought a bag of Ironite about 10 or 15 years ago, before the word
got out about how nasty the stuff is. I poured the whole bag down a
well to get rid of it. ;-)

Bob

I can tell that the second head you grew came in real handy;-)
--

Billy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 10 May 2008 21:52:26 -0500, "Katey Didd"
wrote:

Ironite.........

Uh oh...ironite. Of course, if you are using Sevin, Ironite is likely
of no concern to you.

Care
Charlie

What Charlie is trying to say in his own inimitable way is the presence
of heavy metals in Ironite(R) has resulted in its banning in Canada and
lawsuits in the United States due to the potential release of heavy
metals, most notably arsenic and lead.
http://www.epa.gov/nrmrl/lrpcd/wm/projects/135367.htm
and with respect to Sevin
one Canadian environmental organization in a letter addressed to local
citizens cites some of the 'documented' effects of carbaryl.

1. It causes birth defects in mammals, especially dogs.
2. It worsens the condition of people with hypertension and people on
anti-depressant drugs.
3. It impairs the function of the pituitary gland, the thyroid gland,
and the reproductive system.
4. It causes hyperactivity and learning disabilities in mammals.
5. It could increase the chance of heart attack in people with weak
hearts.
6. The main break-down product, nitrosocarbaryl, which is easily
created in the human gut, is a potent cancer-causing agent.
7. It causes irreversible chromosomal damage to human DNA (the genes
in our cells).
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/facts-sl...bre-sevin.html

At the veeeery least, Sevin is "extremely toxic" to bees. Spray or dust
with Sevin and you'll be doing the pollination of your squash yourself
or you won't have squash. Most of us in the gardening groups that ingest
the plants we grow, are organic gardeners because, in part, we don't
want to poison ourselves, or the environment. These two products seem
imminently capable of doing both.

Rest assured that you are not the first to propose them products and
most assuredly, you won't be the last.

Keep reading the posts here in rec.gardens and rec.gardens.edible, and
check out some books from the library, you'll get the hang of it.

Some titles that I would recommend:

Any book by
Rodale
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...ipbooks&field-
keywords=Rodale&x=0&y=0

How to Grow More Vegetables and Fruits
by John Jeavons
http://www.amazon.com/How-Grow-More-...80087965/ref=s
r_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543192&sr=1-1

The Vegetable Gardener's Bible by Edward C. Smith
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetable-Gard...Gardening/dp/1
580172121/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543343&sr=1-1

The above are how-to books.

The book below explains healthy (organic) soil.

Teaming with Microbes by by Jeff Lowenfels &, Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210542894&sr= 1-1

The book below tells us why we are organic.

The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals
by Michael Pollan
http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...ls/dp/01430385
83/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543426&sr=1-1

This is by no means a definitive list, and you will see other
recommendations in the news groups, but these books are a good place to
begin understanding your new hobby.

I concur and think wow there is a lot to digest for young folks. If
you are not a reader and get your info via main media this almost never
shows up. No lobbyist I guess as no profiteering .
Historically family garden info was passed on by show and tell and see
results. I Think WW1 and WW2 disrupted this transfer of information in
a subtle way. We started to accept info from outsiders who had a larger
audience and were paid to display but had no contact with the
microclimates we live in.

Paranoid you bet!

Marshall McLuhan come to this mind.

Bill whose children never asked a question concerning growing things.
Perhaps they think it is a given? I don't know.

There was that "modern period" in America when, if it didn't come in
plastic, it wasn't real food;-( We've gone from 1930 America, when 25%
of Americans worked in agriculture, and there was a dissemination of
information about food, to 2006 America with only 1.5% of Americans
working in agriculture, and nobody knows nuthin' 'bout food, 'cept
gardeners and ag advisors.
--

Billy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

Charlie wrote in message
...
On Sat, 10 May 2008 21:52:26 -0500, "Katey Didd"
wrote:

Ironite.........

Uh oh...ironite. Of course, if you are using Sevin, Ironite is likely
of no concern to you.

Should it be? Our soil is so alkaline it's recommended Ironite be used.


Care
Charlie

"Mac'sGrandma" wrote in message
...
Squash bugs do more damage to my zucchini than do the vine borers. Here
is a link:

http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/dp_hfrr/ext...s/squashbg.htm

They lay reddish eggs on the underside of leaves, in a pyramid shape. We
try to keep up with inspecting the leaves for eggs but they often get out
of hand quickly so we plant a couple of plants weeks apart and that helps.

Jane and Steve

They are not a big problem here. The borers are ones that do the bush squash
in.

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 10 May 2008 21:52:26 -0500, "Katey Didd"
wrote:

Ironite.........

Uh oh...ironite. Of course, if you are using Sevin, Ironite is likely
of no concern to you.

Care
Charlie

What Charlie is trying to say in his own inimitable way is the presence
of heavy metals in Ironite(R) has resulted in its banning in Canada and
lawsuits in the United States due to the potential release of heavy
metals, most notably arsenic and lead.
http://www.epa.gov/nrmrl/lrpcd/wm/projects/135367.htm
and with respect to Sevin
one Canadian environmental organization in a letter addressed to local
citizens cites some of the 'documented' effects of carbaryl.

1. It causes birth defects in mammals, especially dogs.
2. It worsens the condition of people with hypertension and people on
anti-depressant drugs.
3. It impairs the function of the pituitary gland, the thyroid gland,
and the reproductive system.
4. It causes hyperactivity and learning disabilities in mammals.
5. It could increase the chance of heart attack in people with weak
hearts.
6. The main break-down product, nitrosocarbaryl, which is easily
created in the human gut, is a potent cancer-causing agent.
7. It causes irreversible chromosomal damage to human DNA (the genes
in our cells).
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/facts-sl...bre-sevin.html


OMG!!!!!!!!! No one said anything to me about that. I was told it was one
of the safest products to use. I'll throw the damn stuff out tomorrow.


At the veeeery least, Sevin is "extremely toxic" to bees. Spray or dust
with Sevin and you'll be doing the pollination of your squash yourself
or you won't have squash. Most of us in the gardening groups that ingest
the plants we grow, are organic gardeners because, in part, we don't
want to poison ourselves, or the environment. These two products seem
imminently capable of doing both.

Rest assured that you are not the first to propose them products and
most assuredly, you won't be the last.

Keep reading the posts here in rec.gardens and rec.gardens.edible, and
check out some books from the library, you'll get the hang of it.

Some titles that I would recommend:

Any book by
Rodale
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...ipbooks&field-
keywords=Rodale&x=0&y=0

I have their gardening book from years ago. I think it's time I read it
again. But as I recall some of the organic methods we tried back in the
1960s did not work. I do recall companion planting for insect control was a
waste of time. We also purchased an organic insecticide that was useless.


How to Grow More Vegetables and Fruits
by John Jeavons
http://www.amazon.com/How-Grow-More-...80087965/ref=s
r_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543192&sr=1-1

The Vegetable Gardener's Bible by Edward C. Smith
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetable-Gard...Gardening/dp/1
580172121/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543343&sr=1-1

The above are how-to books.

The book below explains healthy (organic) soil.

Teaming with Microbes by by Jeff Lowenfels &, Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210542894&sr= 1-1

The book below tells us why we are organic.

The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals
by Michael Pollan
http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...ls/dp/01430385
83/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543426&sr=1-1

This is by no means a definitive list, and you will see other
recommendations in the news groups, but these books are a good place to
begin understanding your new hobby.

Thank you Billy. We've done some serious gardening, canning and freezing in
the past. We're kind of getting back into it now that we're both retired.

--

Billy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Billy wrote:
In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 10 May 2008 21:52:26 -0500, "Katey Didd"
wrote:

Ironite.........
Uh oh...ironite. Of course, if you are using Sevin, Ironite is likely
of no concern to you.

Care
Charlie

What Charlie is trying to say in his own inimitable way is the presence
of heavy metals in Ironite(R) has resulted in its banning in Canada and
lawsuits in the United States due to the potential release of heavy
metals, most notably arsenic and lead.
http://www.epa.gov/nrmrl/lrpcd/wm/projects/135367.htm


Yep, I bought a bag of Ironite about 10 or 15 years ago, before the word
got out about how nasty the stuff is. I poured the whole bag down a well
to get rid of it. ;-)

What product did you use instead?



Bob

"zxcvbob" wrote in message
...
Katey Didd wrote:
Thanks. I have one of those huge needles. Like I said. I'll try the
suggestion of a tinfoil collar, egg hunting, Sevin dust etc on the
stem. If the problem still occurs I'll give up on squash. I hunt
the seed racks here and they just have the common varieties. We spend
so much money on the gardens already I fear my husband will object to
buying seeds from catalogs or online. The prices are always so much
higher. Retired, we're on a limited income now.



You might try Spaghetti Squash then. They run like pumpkins, so they
should send down roots at each node (if they do get a borer, they still
have enough roots that it doesn't matter)

We grew them one year and no one liked them. No one ate them.


Bob

In article ,
"Katey Didd" wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 10 May 2008 21:52:26 -0500, "Katey Didd"
wrote:

Ironite.........

Uh oh...ironite. Of course, if you are using Sevin, Ironite is likely
of no concern to you.

Care
Charlie

What Charlie is trying to say in his own inimitable way is the presence
of heavy metals in Ironite(R) has resulted in its banning in Canada and
lawsuits in the United States due to the potential release of heavy
metals, most notably arsenic and lead.
http://www.epa.gov/nrmrl/lrpcd/wm/projects/135367.htm
and with respect to Sevin
one Canadian environmental organization in a letter addressed to local
citizens cites some of the 'documented' effects of carbaryl.

1. It causes birth defects in mammals, especially dogs.
2. It worsens the condition of people with hypertension and people on
anti-depressant drugs.
3. It impairs the function of the pituitary gland, the thyroid gland,
and the reproductive system.
4. It causes hyperactivity and learning disabilities in mammals.
5. It could increase the chance of heart attack in people with weak
hearts.
6. The main break-down product, nitrosocarbaryl, which is easily
created in the human gut, is a potent cancer-causing agent.
7. It causes irreversible chromosomal damage to human DNA (the genes
in our cells).
http://pmep.cce.cornell.edu/facts-sl...bre-sevin.html


OMG!!!!!!!!! No one said anything to me about that. I was told it was one
of the safest products to use. I'll throw the damn stuff out tomorrow.


At the veeeery least, Sevin is "extremely toxic" to bees. Spray or dust
with Sevin and you'll be doing the pollination of your squash yourself
or you won't have squash. Most of us in the gardening groups that ingest
the plants we grow, are organic gardeners because, in part, we don't
want to poison ourselves, or the environment. These two products seem
imminently capable of doing both.

Rest assured that you are not the first to propose them products and
most assuredly, you won't be the last.

Keep reading the posts here in rec.gardens and rec.gardens.edible, and
check out some books from the library, you'll get the hang of it.

Some titles that I would recommend:

Any book by
Rodale
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_gw...ipbooks&field-
keywords=Rodale&x=0&y=0

I have their gardening book from years ago. I think it's time I read it
again. But as I recall some of the organic methods we tried back in the
1960s did not work. I do recall companion planting for insect control was a
waste of time. We also purchased an organic insecticide that was useless.

Ah, I remember putting out marigolds to control the insects. The
snails and slugs thought it was a buffet. People have all kinds of
problems. I was lucky, I only had one problem, snails and slugs.
It just turned out that I was working with insufficient information.
Stay tuned. We go over the same problems, time after time,
after time, after . . . .



How to Grow More Vegetables and Fruits
by John Jeavons
http://www.amazon.com/How-Grow-More-...80087965/ref=s
r_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543192&sr=1-1

The Vegetable Gardener's Bible by Edward C. Smith
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetable-Gard...Gardening/dp/1
580172121/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543343&sr=1-1

The above are how-to books.

The book below explains healthy (organic) soil.

Teaming with Microbes by by Jeff Lowenfels &, Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb.../dp/0881927775
/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210542894&sr= 1-1

The book below tells us why we are organic.

The Omnivore's Dilemma: A Natural History of Four Meals
by Michael Pollan
http://www.amazon.com/Omnivores-Dile...ls/dp/01430385
83/ref=pd_bbs_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1210543426&sr=1-1

This is by no means a definitive list, and you will see other
recommendations in the news groups, but these books are a good place to
begin understanding your new hobby.

Thank you Billy. We've done some serious gardening, canning and freezing in
the past. We're kind of getting back into it now that we're both retired.

--

Billy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related
--

Billy
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9KVTf...ef=patrick.net
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l0aEo...eature=related