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#16
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Miracle gro
In article ,
songbird wrote: FarmI wrote: "Derald" wrote in message m... Superbly done, Sir or Madame, if one may call you that. Derald, just WHAT are you on about? Derald, Gunnar and Billy are on about each other. they need to get a room. I give references to support my point of view, whereas Gunny and Dim seem to think that we should just support thier unsubstantiated statements. Putting 2 autocrats in the same room probably isn't a good idea. They need to be in separate wards. has anyone grown cloves? songbird -- "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug |
#17
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Miracle gro
In article ,
songbird wrote: FarmI wrote: "Derald" wrote in message m... Superbly done, Sir or Madame, if one may call you that. Derald, just WHAT are you on about? Derald, Gunnar and Billy are on about each other. they need to get a room. has anyone grown cloves? songbird You have a climate similar to Indonesia? -- "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug |
#18
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Miracle gro
"songbird" wrote in message
FarmI wrote: "Derald" wrote in message m... Superbly done, Sir or Madame, if one may call you that. Derald, just WHAT are you on about? Derald, Gunnar and Billy are on about each other. they need to get a room. How do you know? Derald leaves nothing in from previous posts so may as well be talking to him/herself in a sound proofed room. has anyone grown cloves? The spice? Sorry, I don't live in a tropical area. |
#19
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Miracle gro
FarmI wrote:
songbird wrote: FarmI wrote: Derald wrote: Superbly done, Sir or Madame, if one may call you that. Derald, just WHAT are you on about? Derald, Gunnar and Billy are on about each other. they need to get a room. How do you know? when they use each other's names in flinging abuse back and forth that kinda gives it away. but, anyways, it's not important overall, just a comment on local color so to speak. Derald leaves nothing in from previous posts so may as well be talking to him/herself in a sound proofed room. at times, other times not. has anyone grown cloves? The spice? Sorry, I don't live in a tropical area. ok, thanks. songbird |
#20
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Miracle gro
On Jul 7, 7:00*pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given trying to get her
shit together wrote: "songbird" wrote in message FarmI wrote: "Derald" wrote in message news:KpmdnXAoLuitcInTnZ2dnUVZ_ridnZ2d@earthlink. com... Superbly done, Sir or Madame, if one may call you that. Derald, just WHAT are you on about? *Derald, Gunnar and Billy are on about each other. *they need to get a room. How do you know? *Derald leaves nothing in from previous posts so may as well be talking to him/herself in a sound proofed room. *has anyone grown cloves? The spice? *Sorry, I don't live in a tropical area. Catch up Farmnal, YOU are now mixing your posts! |
#21
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Miracle gro
On Jul 7, 12:42*pm, Billy nostalgic about his
fifth grade crossing guard good citizen oath wrote:. I give references to support my point of view, whereas ....wha, wha, wha. Teacher... their being mean to me again! The answer is Still YES it is OK!!!!!!!! (Pure 60s communist propaganda BS snipped) |
#22
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Miracle gro
On Jul 6, 10:19*pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
*Do you expect us to all just sit here at our computers and play guessing games about what you are thinking? and yet....... ( wait for it)........ you doooooooo! |
#23
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Miracle gro
On Jul 6, 10:14*pm, "FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:
hoping to help "Billy" wrote in message Lame, really lame |
#24
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Miracle gro
On Jul 6, 11:22*am, songbird wrote:
FarmI wrote: Billy wrote: Instead of responding to Gunny's disingenuous prevarications, or his chronic cranial-rectal inversion, let me simply quote the following, Why bother Billy. *I've found my killfile has an infinite capacity despite the efforts of the trolls to try to repeatedly escape. * for humor value alone, it was worth reading the rant about blindly selling something when the replies that said to read up on things, to use organic materials/mulches (which often are freely available), etc. * yeah, that's blindly selling something compared to going out and buying Miracle Gro, Osmacote and $15 soil tests. *all things that gardeners didn't need for thousands of years... * gotta laugh, * songbird Wow birdie! I had you pegged at no more than a day over 800 years old. You old Shamanistas are amazing, but ya gotta get out more and see how the real world has developed since you was a young girl. No one going to go back to get you folks left behind, so keep up. "Nothing is... because everything is becoming" Your objection here (or the pretense) appears to be cost? Is that correct? You do not see the value in a soil test or buying fertilizer when you can get it free, Is that your argument? You do not appear to be pulling a billy trying to use faux google references to falsely "imply" Miracle GroG kills soil. We all know that is a grossly exagerrated lie. Nute salts are the same regardless. Ya just can't change science and really, emperical data is so much more accurate than your ilk's taste test method. As for being free everything has a cost. Keep burning that wood birdie, love how that saves the environment! Joining in the laughter!! |
#25
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Miracle gro
Gunner wrote:
.... Wow birdie! I had you pegged at no more than a day over 800 years old. You old Shamanistas are amazing, but ya gotta get out more and see how the real world has developed since you was a young girl. No one going to go back to get you folks left behind, so keep up. "Nothing is... because everything is becoming" the real world development i see is to a large part: ignorant, greedy, poisonous or destructive to many creatures. you'd like me to keep up with that? there is some hope yet, but it is a long ways to go. Your objection here (or the pretense) appears to be cost? Is that correct? my objection is that the OP stated they were a new gardener. which means very likely that they were using a new space. any long time gardener knows that new soil is often just fine for the first season and needs no additional nutrients added to it. short of obvious signs of deficit (the OP stated none) why add fertilizer? because we've been raised with cereal in the box and milk out of the bottle doesn't mean that nutritional value comes from boxes and bottles. so instead of saying "yeah, go ahead dump dilute liquid fertilizers on your garden it won't hurt a thing." i recommended the OP do some reading and learn about what they are doing before adding anything to the soil, and i pointed them towards organic methods because they have less chance of being a runoff pollutant problem and a better chance of actually nurturing the soil organisms and maintaining or improving nutrients in the soil and thus the produce grown therein. is that clear? you were the one who came up with the "selling something" language and i had to laugh because you were the seller of more products than i. You do not see the value in a soil test or buying fertilizer when you can get it free, Is that your argument? i do not see the value in getting a soil test if there are no signs of deficit. instead recommending the OP get some books on gardening and reading up on soil will give them much more for their future efforts than what they can get by dumping gunk out of a bottle. there are many good descriptions of both fertile soil (and how to evaluate the soil condition) and various deficits. no tests other than observation are needed. relying upon a soil test to tell what the soil is doing is like using butt probe to tell what the brain is doing. You do not appear to be pulling a billy trying to use faux google references to falsely "imply" Miracle GroG kills soil. no i do not have to imply that at all if i tell the OP to not dump it at all then i've helped them avoid the problems it can cause. We all know that is a grossly exagerrated lie. Nute salts are the same regardless. Ya just can't change science and really, emperical data is so much more accurate than your ilk's taste test method. if by emperical data you mean millions of acres of destroyed top soil then you've got all the evidence you need from dumping "Nute salts" (whatever those are). As for being free everything has a cost. Keep burning that wood birdie, love how that saves the environment! i dunno how much more burning i'll be doing, but talking about the carbon cycle from the rotting of organic materials in the compost pile (or buried in the ground) and comparing that to what happens to the carbon when you make charcoal and the various soil nutrition aspects of that is probably a much more scientific process than telling someone "ok, dump that on the soil". but whatever. Joining in the laughter!! yuk yuk. songbird |
#26
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Miracle gro
FarmI wrote:
"songbird" wrote: has anyone grown cloves? The spice? Sorry, I don't live in a tropical area. When I lived in Los Angeles metro I saw a peppercorn bush at a farmers market. Even there it was for indoors. You'd need a hot house to grow a clove plant almost anywhere in the temperate zones. |
#27
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Miracle gro
In article ,
songbird wrote: Welcome, to Gunny's world, songbird. No facts, no references, but lots of pronouncements and innuendo. Enjoy it, if you can. Gunny enjoys arguments. In part he tries to do this by starting as many arguments as possible, and as you nail him down on one, he will ignore it, and attack a different argument (personal experience). Now, you may feel like some light hearted bantering, but, trust me, he will take it as a personal challenge to crush you. Personally, I think he is a "tweaker", but that is an unsubstantiated opinion. Gunner wrote: ... Wow birdie! I had you pegged at no more than a day over 800 years old. You old Shamanistas are amazing, but ya gotta get out more and see how the real world has developed since you was a young girl. No one going to go back to get you folks left behind, so keep up. "Nothing is... because everything is becoming" Is there any gardening in the above paragraph? If it was me, I would have told you where you were wrong, and given references to support my position, but not Gunny. Here he mocks, characterizes (without substantiating the characterization), and patronizes you in order to pretend that he is your superior (also no evidence submitted). the real world development i see is to a large part: ignorant, greedy, poisonous or destructive to many creatures. you'd like me to keep up with that? there is some hope yet, but it is a long ways to go. Your objection here (or the pretense) appears to be cost? Is that correct? Here Gunny questions your motives. Has anyone in this newsgroup, other than Gunny, ever questioned your motives before? More over, he is trying to put words in your mouth, to the effect that your objection to chemferts is based on cost. my objection is that the OP stated they were a new gardener. which means very likely that they were using a new space. any long time gardener knows that new soil is often just fine for the first season and needs no additional nutrients added to it. short of obvious signs of deficit (the OP stated none) why add fertilizer? because we've been raised with cereal in the box and milk out of the bottle doesn't mean that nutritional value comes from boxes and bottles. so instead of saying "yeah, go ahead dump dilute liquid fertilizers on your garden it won't hurt a thing." i recommended the OP do some reading and learn about what they are doing before adding anything to the soil, and i pointed them towards organic methods because they have less chance of being a runoff pollutant problem and a better chance of actually nurturing the soil organisms and maintaining or improving nutrients in the soil and thus the produce grown therein. is that clear? you were the one who came up with the "selling something" language and i had to laugh because you were the seller of more products than i. You do not see the value in a soil test or buying fertilizer when you can get it free, Is that your argument? Gunny again trying to put words in your mouth, attempting to bring a discussion to the level of an argument. i do not see the value in getting a soil test if there are no signs of deficit. instead recommending the OP get some books on gardening and reading up on soil will give them much more for their future efforts than what they can get by dumping gunk out of a bottle. there are many good descriptions of both fertile soil (and how to evaluate the soil condition) and various deficits. no tests other than observation are needed. relying upon a soil test to tell what the soil is doing is like using butt probe to tell what the brain is doing. You do not appear to be pulling a billy trying to use faux google references to falsely "imply" Miracle GroG kills soil. I'll take this one, songbird. Gunny, give an example of a faux google reference that I have given, please, or continue to show yourself as an idiot. Now, as far as implying that chemferts kill soil life, I don't imply, I quote experts. Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb...l/dp/088192777 5/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1 (Available at a library near you.) Chapter 1 What Is the Soil Food Web and Why Should Gardeners Care? Negative impacts on the soil food web Chemical fertilizers negatively impact the soil food web by killing off entire portions of it. What gardener hasn't seen what table salt does to a slug? Fertilizers are salts; they suck the water out of the bacteria, fungi, protozoa, and nematodes in the soil. Since these microbes are at the very foundation of the soil food web nutrient system, you have to keep adding fertilizer once you start using it regularly. The microbiology is missing and not there to do its job, feeding the plants. It makes sense that once the bacteria, fungi, nematodes, and protozoa are gone, other members of the food web disappear as well. Earthworms, for example, lacking food and irritated by the synthetic nitrates in soluble nitrogen fertilizers, move out. Since they are major shredders of organic material, their absence is a great loss. Without the activity and diversity of a healthy food web, you not only impact the nutrient system but all the other things a healthy soil food web brings. Soil structure deteriorates, watering can become problematic," pathogens and pests establish themselves and, worst of all, gardening becomes a lot more work than it needs to be. . . Plants are in control Most gardeners think of plants as only taking up nutrients through root systems and feeding the leaves. Few realize that a great deal of the energy that results from photosynthesis in the leaves is actually used by plants to produce chemicals they secrete through their roots. These secretions are known as exudates. A good analogy is perspiration, a human's exudate. Root exudates are in the form of carbohydrates (including sugars) and proteins. Amazingly, their presence wakes up, attracts, and grows specific beneficial bacteria and fungi living in the soil that subsist on these exudates and the cellular material sloughed off as the plant's root tips grow. All this secretion of exudates and sloughing-off of cells takes place in the rhizosphere, a zone immediately around the roots, extending out about a tenth of an inch, or a couple of millimeters (1 millimeter = 1/25 inch). The rhizosphere, which can look like a jelly or jam under the electron microscope, contains a constantly changing mix of soil organisms, including bacteria, fungi, nematodes, protozoa, and even larger organisms. All this ³life" competes for the exudates in the rhizosphere, or its water or mineral content. At the bottom of the soil food web are bacteria and fungi, which are attracted to and consume plant root exudates. In turn, they attract and are eaten by bigger microbes, specifically nematodes and protozoa (remember the amoebae, paramecia, flagellates, and ciliates you should have studied in biology?), who eat bacteria and fungi (primarily for carbon) to fuel their metabolic functions. Anything they don't need is excreted as wastes, which plant roots are readily able to absorb as nutrients. How convenient that this production of plant nutrients takes place right in the rhizosphere, the site of root-nutrient absorption. At the center of any viable soil food web are plants. Plants control the food web for their own benefit, an amazing fact that is too little understood and surely not appreciated by gardeners who are constantly interfering with Nature's system. Studies indicate that individual plants can control the numbers and the different kinds of fungi and bacteria attracted to the rhizosphere by the exudates they produce. During different times of the growing season, populations of rhizosphere bacteria and fungi wax and wane, depending on the nutrient needs of the plant and the exudates it produces. Soil bacteria and fungi are like small bags of fertilizer, retaining in their bodies nitrogen and other nutrients they gain from root exudates and other organic matter (such as those sloughed-off root-tip cells). Carrying on the analogy, soil protozoa and nematodes act as ³fertilizer spreaders" by releasing , the nutrients locked up in the bacteria and fungi ³fertilizer bags." The nematodes and protozoa in the soil come along and eat the bacteria and fungi in the, rhizosphere. They digest what they need to survive and excrete excess carbon and other nutrients as waste. Left to their own devices, then, plants produce exudates that attract fungi and bacteria (and, ultimately, nematodes and protozoa); their survival depends on the interplay between these microbes. It is a completely natural system, the very same one that has fueled plants since they evolved. Soil life provides the nutrients needed for plant life, and plants initiate and fuel the cycle by producing exudates. . . .. . . Soil life produces soil nutrients When any member of a soil food web dies, it becomes fodder for other members of the community. The nutrients in these bodies are passed on to other members of the community. A larger predator may eat them alive, or they may be decayed after they die. One way or the other, fungi and bacteria get involved, be it decaying the organism directly or working on the dung of the successful eater. It makes no difference. Nutrients are preserved and eventually are retained in the bodies of even the smallest fungi and bacteria. When these are in the rhizosphere, they release nutrients in plant-available form when they, in turn, are consumed or die. Without this system, most important nutrients would drain from soil. Instead, they are retained in the bodies of soil life. Here is the gardener's truth: when you apply a chemical fertilizer, a tiny bit hits the rhizosphere, where it is absorbed, but most of it continues to drain through soil until it hits the water table. Not so with the nutrients locked up inside soil organisms, a state known as immobilization; these nutrients are eventually released as wastes, or mineralized. And when the plants themselves die and are allowed to decay, the nutrients they retained are again immobilized in the fungi and bacteria that consume them. The nutrient supply in the soil is influenced by soil life in other ways. For example, worms pull organic matter into the soil, where it is shredded by beetles and the larvae of other insects, opening it up for fungal and bacterial decay. This worm activity provides yet more nutrients for the soil community. Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale Permaculture (Paperback) by Toby Hemenway http://www.amazon.com/Gaias-Garden-S...culture/dp/160 3580298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271266976&sr=1-1 (Available at a library near you.) A chemical view of humus, studded with negatively charged oxygen atoms. Positively charged nutrients such as ammonium, potassium, copper, magnesium, calcium, and zinc are adsorbed to the humus. These nutrients can be pulled off the humus and used by plants and microbes. p.78 ammonium (a nitrogen compound), copper, zinc, manganese, and many others. Under the right conditions (in soil with a pH near 7, that is, neither too acid nor too alkaline), humus can pick up and store enormous quantities of positively charged nutrients. How do these nutrients move from the humus to plants? Plant roots, as noted, secrete very mild acids which break the bonds that hold the nutrients onto the humus. The nutrients from humus are washed into the soil moisture, creating a rich soup. Bathed in this nutritious broth, the plants can absorb as much calcium, ammonium, or other nutrient as they need. There's evidence to suggest that when plants have supped long enough, they stop the flow of acid to avoid depleting the humus. That's the direct method plants use to pull nutrients from humus. Just as common in healthy soil is an indirect route, in which microbes are the middlemen. This type of plant feeding involves an exchange. Roots secrete sugars and vitamins that are ideal food for beneficial bacteria and fungi. These microbes thrive in huge numbers close to roots and even attach to them, lapping up the plant-made food and bathing in the film of moisture that surrounds the roots. In return, the microbes produce acids and enzymes that release the humus-bound nutrients and share this food with the plants. Microbes also excrete food for plants in their waste. One more big plus for plants is that many of the fungi and other microbes secrete antibiotics that protect the plants from disease. All of these mutual exchanges create a truly symbiotic relationship. Many plants have become dependent on particular species of microbial partners and grow poorly without them. Even when the plant-microbe partnership isn't this specific, plants often grow much faster when microbes are present than they do in a sterile or microbe-depleted environment. p.79 Conventional wisdom has it that plant root are the main imbibers of soil minerals and that plants can only absorb these minerals (fertilizers) if they are in a water-soluble form, but neither premise is true. Roots occupy only a tiny fraction of the soil, so most soil minerals‹and most chemical fertilizers‹never make direct contact with roots. Unless these isolated, lonely minerals are snapped up by humus or soil organisms, they leach away. It's the humus and the life in the soil that keep the earth fertile by holding on to nutrients that would otherwise wash out of the soil into streams, lakes, and eventually the ocean. Agricultural chemists have missed the boat with their soluble fertilizers; they're doing things the hard way by using an engineering approach rather than an ecological one. Yes, plants are quite capable of absorbing the water-soluble minerals in chemical fertilizer. But plants often use only 10 percent of the fertilizer that's applied and rarely more than 50 percent. The rest washes into the groundwater, which is why so many wells in our farmlands are polluted with toxic levels of nitrates. Applying fertilizer the way nature does‹tied to organic matter‹uses far less fertilizer and also saves the energy consumed in producing, shipping and applying it. It also supports a broad assortment of soil life, which widens the base of our living pyramid and enhances rather than reduces biodiversity. In addition, plants get a balanced diet instead of being force-fed and are healthier. It's well documented that plants grown on soil rich in organic matter are more disease- and insect-resistant than plants in carbon-poor soil. In short, a properly tuned ecological garden rarely needs soluble fertilizers because plants and soil animals can knock nutrients loose from humus and organic debris (or clay, another nutrient storage source) using secretions of mild acid and enzymes. Most of the nutrients in healthy soil are "insoluble yet available," in the words of soil scientist William Albrecht. These nutrients, bound to organic matter or cycling among fast-living microbes,won't' wash out of the soil yet can be gently coaxed loose ‹ or traded for sugar secretions‹ by roots. And the plants take up only what they need. This turns out to be very little, since plants are 85 percent water, and much of the rest is carbon from the air. A fat half-pound tomato, for example, only draws about 50 milligrams of phosphorus and 500 milligrams of potassium from the soil. That's easy to replace in a humus-rich garden that uses mulches, composts, and nutrient-accumulating plants. ---- Lab tests may tell you where you are starting, but a properly maintained garden will take you where you want to go. They did throw you a bone, Gunny-boy: a properly tuned ecological garden rarely needs soluble fertilizers. That implies that there may be, on the rare occasion, a place for chemferts. QED Meanwhile, back at the ranch. no i do not have to imply that at all if i tell the OP to not dump it at all then i've helped them avoid the problems it can cause. We all know that is a grossly exagerrated lie. Nute salts are the same regardless. Ya just can't change science and really, emperical data is so much more accurate than your ilk's taste test method. Classic Gunny. Do you still beat your wife, Gunny? No attempt to show that the statement is a lie, just a simple unsubstantiated declaration that Gunny knows best. As far as the nutrients from chemferts, and organic fertilizer being equivalent, Gunny is WRONG. Nitrate is nitrate to be sure, but one nitrate comes from a salt (that's bad, as you will know if you read the above), and the other comes from organic material. Just another example of Gunny-boy's ignorance, or another of his disingenuous prevarications. Are you an ilk, songbird? Do you have a taste test? Gunny-boy again makes accusations without substantiation. if by emperical data you mean millions of acres of destroyed top soil then you've got all the evidence you need from dumping "Nute salts" (whatever those are). As for being free everything has a cost. King of the bleeding obvious, Gunny-boy is. Keep burning that wood birdie, love how that saves the environment! i dunno how much more burning i'll be doing, but talking about the carbon cycle from the rotting of organic materials in the compost pile (or buried in the ground) and comparing that to what happens to the carbon when you make charcoal and the various soil nutrition aspects of that is probably a much more scientific process than telling someone "ok, dump that on the soil". but whatever. Not to mention the release into the environment of carbon that had been long sequestered (gas and oil), instead of cycling the present carbon. Three hundred and fifty parts per million of CO2 is considered safe, and we are presently at 390 ppm CO2. As St Molly said, "When you find yourself in a hole, stop digging." Joining in the laughter!! yuk yuk. Why not? It's Gunny-boy, who is the joke ;O) Bottom line, Gunny isn't interested at arriving at an understanding. He, for some reason, wants an argument for arguments sake. songbird -- - Billy Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria of the American political landscape. America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash. It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks and the portfolios of the uber-rich. http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore /michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/ |
#28
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Miracle gro
On Jul 8, 10:55*am, Billy cut and pasted
enough of his BS qutoa for the entire month: Hhey Dr Google, I don't want ya to waste this really good rant ya got going on but Really the answer is still yes, it is ok to use |
#29
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Miracle gro
On Jul 8, 8:23*am, songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote: ... Wow birdie! *I had you pegged at no more than a day over 800 years old. You old Shamanistas are amazing, but ya gotta get out more and see how the real world has developed since you was a young girl. *No one going to go back to get you folks left behind, so keep up. "Nothing is... because everything is becoming" * the real world development i see is to a large part: ignorant, greedy, poisonous or destructive to many creatures. * you'd like me to keep up with that? * there is some hope yet, but it is a long ways to go. Your objection here (or the pretense) appears to be cost? Is that correct? * my objection is that the OP stated they were a new gardener. *which means very likely that they were using a new space. *any long time gardener knows that new soil is often just fine for the first season and needs no additional nutrients added to it. *short of obvious signs of deficit (the OP stated none) why add fertilizer? *because we've been raised with cereal in the box and milk out of the bottle doesn't mean that nutritional value comes from boxes and bottles. * so instead of saying "yeah, go ahead dump dilute liquid fertilizers on your garden it won't hurt a thing." i recommended the OP do some reading and learn about what they are doing before adding anything to the soil, and i pointed them towards organic methods because they have less chance of being a runoff pollutant problem and a better chance of actually nurturing the soil organisms and maintaining or improving nutrients in the soil and thus the produce grown therein. * is that clear? * you were the one who came up with the "selling something" language and i had to laugh because you were the seller of more products than i. *You do not see the value in a soil test or buying fertilizer when you can get it free, Is that your argument? * i do not see the value in getting a soil test if there are no signs of deficit. * instead recommending the OP get some books on gardening and reading up on soil will give them much more for their future efforts than what they can get by dumping gunk out of a bottle. * there are many good descriptions of both fertile soil (and how to evaluate the soil condition) and various deficits. *no tests other than observation are needed. *relying upon a soil test to tell what the soil is doing is like using butt probe to tell what the brain is doing. *You do not appear to be pulling a billy trying to use faux google references to falsely "imply" Miracle GroG kills soil. * no i do not have to imply that at all if i tell the OP to not dump it at all then i've helped them avoid the problems it can cause. *We all know that is a grossly exagerrated lie. Nute salts are the same regardless. Ya just can't change science and really, *emperical data is so much more accurate than your ilk's taste test method. * if by emperical data you mean millions of acres of destroyed top soil then you've got all the evidence you need from dumping "Nute salts" (whatever those are). *As for being free everything has a cost. Keep burning that wood birdie, love how that saves the environment! * i dunno how much more burning i'll be doing, but talking about the carbon cycle from the rotting of organic materials in the compost pile (or buried in the ground) and comparing that to what happens to the carbon when you make charcoal and the various soil nutrition aspects of that is probably a much more scientific process than telling someone "ok, dump that on the soil". * but whatever. Joining in the laughter!! * yuk yuk. * songbird |
#30
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Miracle gro
In article ,
songbird wrote: Gunner wrote: ... Wow birdie! I had you pegged at no more than a day over 800 years old. You old Shamanistas are amazing, but ya gotta get out more and see how the real world has developed since you was a young girl. No one going to go back to get you folks left behind, so keep up. "Nothing is... because everything is becoming" the real world development i see is to a large part: ignorant, greedy, poisonous or destructive to many creatures. you'd like me to keep up with that? there is some hope yet, but it is a long ways to go. Your objection here (or the pretense) appears to be cost? Is that correct? my objection is that the OP stated they were a new gardener. which means very likely that they were using a new space. any long time gardener knows that new soil is often just fine for the first season and needs no additional nutrients added to it. short of obvious signs of deficit (the OP stated none) why add fertilizer? because we've been raised with cereal in the box and milk out of the bottle doesn't mean that nutritional value comes from boxes and bottles. so instead of saying "yeah, go ahead dump dilute liquid fertilizers on your garden it won't hurt a thing." i recommended the OP do some reading and learn about what they are doing before adding anything to the soil, and i pointed them towards organic methods because they have less chance of being a runoff pollutant problem and a better chance of actually nurturing the soil organisms and maintaining or improving nutrients in the soil and thus the produce grown therein. is that clear? Score one for the Shamanista songbird. State of the World 2011: Innovations That Nourish the Planet: A Worldwatch Institute Report on Progress Toward a Sustainable Society (Paperback - Jan 2011) http://www.amazon.com/State-World-20...able/dp/184971 3529/ref=sr_1_33?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1310168545&sr=1-33 (At a library near you, until they close) p 8 If seeds represent the short-term payoff option, the truly long-term investment with big returns is investing in the soil and water that nourish crops. In Mali and other parts of the African Sahel, soils are severely damaged from overgrazing and drought, but the use of green manure and cover crops can dramatically improve soil fertility without the use of expensive fertilizers. . . . [Roland] Bunch notes that subsidizing chemical fertilizers, which some African nations are doing heavily (by up to 75 percent in Malawi, for example), has generally not been a good long-term strategy and actu- ally reduces farmers' incentive to invest in more agroecological approaches to nourishing soils. When the fertilizer subsidies end, pro- ductivity will drop to virtually nothing. Instead, Bunch maintains that green manure/cover crops are the only sustainable solution to Africa's soil fertility crisis.12 -- "Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug |
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