Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #1   Report Post  
Old 03-07-2011, 12:11 PM
Registered User
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2011
Posts: 1
Default Miracle gro

Hi, is this ok to use on vegetable plants, sorry to be thick but Im learning!
  #2   Report Post  
Old 03-07-2011, 08:05 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,072
Default Miracle gro

chablonski wrote:

Hi, is this ok to use on vegetable plants, sorry to be thick but Im
learning!


not likely to be needed. many garden
veggies will put on more foliage but not
much more actual produce to make it worth
it. if this is a new garden plot the soil
is probably ok anyways.

look into rotation planting, green manures,
composting, mulching and learn which of your
garden plants are heavy feeders and need to
be followed by other soil recharging plants
like beans/peas.

please read up on gardening using organic
methods as much as possible. it will save
you a lot of later trouble and decrease the
likelyhood that you will poison yourself,
others or the the environment...


songbird
  #3   Report Post  
Old 03-07-2011, 10:30 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,438
Default Miracle gro

In article ,
chablonski CHABLONSKISPAM wrote:

Hi, is this ok to use on vegetable plants, sorry to be thick but Im
learning!

Not to worry. We all started at the beginning. Hang around and ask your
questions.

Is this Scotts' regular "chemical salt fertilizer", or their organic
fertilizer? If it is the former, it is toxic to many of the beneficial
microorganisms in your garden soil. If it is the later, it assays at
an NPK of 0.10 - 0.05 - 0.10,
http://www.scotts.com/smg/catalog/pr...d=prod70308&it
emId=cat80014&tabs=usage
where as fish emulsion (an organic fertilizer) has an NPK or 5-1-1.

What are you growing? Every plant has its own needs, not that you can't
get by by using a one size fits all approach at the beginning, but you
will find eventually that every plant becomes more complicated as you
learn more about it.

songbird gave you some good advice, to which I would add no-dig
gardening.

If you have the time, I'd recommend reading the following:

"Vegetable Gardener' Bible" by Edward C. Smith.
http://www.amazon.com/Vegetable-Gard...-Gardening/dp/
1580172121/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815454&sr=1-1
(Available at a library near you)

"How to Grow More Vegetables" by John Jeavons
http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_ss_b/...l=search-alias
%3Dstripbooks&field-keywords=How+to+Grow+More+Vegetables&x=0&y=0
(Available at a library near you)

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb...l/dp/088192777
5/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1
(Available at a library near you)

Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale Permaculture
(Paperback)
by Toby Hemenway
http://www.amazon.com/Gaias-Garden-S...culture/dp/160
3580298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271266976&sr=1-1
(Available at a library near you)
--

Manure Chicken Diary cow Horse Steer Rabbit
N 1.1 .257 .70 .70 2.4
P .80 .15 .30 .30 1.4
K .50 .25 .60 .40 .60


Manure Sheep Alfalfa Fish Emulsion
N .70 3 5
P .30 1 1
K .90 2 1

You can gauge the quality of your soil by its earthworm population.
If there aren't any, you need to improve the soil. Improve the soil, and
the earthworms will come.

Good luck,
--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/
  #4   Report Post  
Old 04-07-2011, 10:18 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Sep 2010
Posts: 330
Default Miracle gro

On Jul 3, 3:11*am, chablonski CHABLONSKISPAM
wrote:
Hi, is this ok to use on vegetable plants,
chablonski


Yes, it is. Mineral nutrients used by plants are the same
regardless of source.

Might try controlled release formulates such as Osmacote if your
garden schedule is limited, One application will usually last for 3-4
months...

As to your soil or any future soil building.... rather than blindly
following those who are well intended... but whose advice is on par
with tits on a boar hog,... get a soil test to see what you actually
need for your soil/crop. 15$ for a UMASS ( http://www.umass.edu/soiltest/)
or similiar soil test detailing specifics for your intended needs is
much better than the wasting of time, effort and expense of hauling
and incorporating tons of unnecessary BS, compost or whatever. Get
a good soil base and learn to fertilize your plants..properly.

As for the Earthworm test? They may well be an excellent soil health
indicator but according to billy mine should all be dead by now. I'm
still awaiting their Rapture from using those evil chemferts
(hissssss). Got so many worms in this clay it quite handily
discredits any eco-fringy claims that "chemferts" kill them and the
other SOM. Follow the test results recommendations. Most of the
"claims" of the eco fringe are the of same category as the organic
horse shit they attempt to sell. These folks do not know your soil...
probably never seen or have worked anything outside of a 50 mile range
of their little pea patch. Talk to your local Master Gardners or the
County Extension Office/Agent,... they are in the book.

Good luck in your garden endeavors.
  #5   Report Post  
Old 04-07-2011, 08:33 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,438
Default Miracle gro

In article ,
Rick wrote:

On Mon, 4 Jul 2011 01:18:00 -0700 (PDT), Gunny
wrote:

On Jul 3, 3:11*am, chablonski CHABLONSKISPAM
wrote:
Hi, is this ok to use on vegetable plants,
chablonski


Yes, it is. Mineral nutrients used by plants are the same
regardless of source.

Might try controlled release formulates such as Osmacote if your
garden schedule is limited, One application will usually last for 3-4
months...

As to your soil or any future soil building.... rather than blindly
following those who are well intended... but whose advice is on par
with tits on a boar hog,... get a soil test to see what you actually
need for your soil/crop. 15$ for a UMASS ( http://www.umass.edu/soiltest/)
or similiar soil test detailing specifics for your intended needs is
much better than the wasting of time, effort and expense of hauling
and incorporating tons of unnecessary BS, compost or whatever. Get
a good soil base and learn to fertilize your plants..properly.

As for the Earthworm test? They may well be an excellent soil health
indicator but according to billy mine should all be dead by now. I'm
still awaiting their Rapture from using those evil chemferts
(hissssss). Got so many worms in this clay it quite handily
discredits any eco-fringy claims that "chemferts" kill them and the
other SOM. Follow the test results recommendations. Most of the
"claims" of the eco fringe are the of same category as the organic
horse shit they attempt to sell. These folks do not know your soil...
probably never seen or have worked anything outside of a 50 mile range
of their little pea patch. Talk to your local Master Gardners or the
County Extension Office/Agent,... they are in the book.

Good luck in your garden endeavors.


Yeah,
What he said. I use Miracle gro on my potted plants because it is
hard to over fertilize with it. It is really more like a highly
diluted hydroponic solution, so there is almost no change of burning
etc. For my outdoor veggy garden it would be a bit pricey.


Instead of responding to Gunny's disingenuous prevarications, or his
chronic cranial-rectal inversion, let me simply quote the following, and
feel free to google the authors to assess their qualifications to speak
on gardening.

Teaming with Microbes: A Gardener's Guide to the Soil Food Web
Jeff Lowenfels and Wayne Lewis
http://www.amazon.com/Teaming-Microb...l/dp/088192777
5/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1206815176&sr= 1-1
(Available at a library near you.)

Chapter 1

What Is the Soil Food Web and Why Should Gardeners Care?

GIVEN ITS VITAL IMPORTANCE to our hobby, it is amazing that most of
us don't venture beyond the understanding that good soil supports
plant life, and poor soil doesn't. You've undoubtedly seen worms in
good soil, and unless you habitually use pesticides, you should have come
across other soil life: centipedes, springtails, ants, slugs, ladybird
beetle larvae, and more. Most of this life is on the surface, in the
first 4 inches (10 centimeters); some soil microbes have even been
discovered living comfortably an incredible two miles beneath the
surface. Good soil, however, is not just a few animals. Good soil is
absolutely teeming with life, yet seldom does the realization that this
is so engender a reaction of satisfaction.

In addition to all the living organisms you can see in garden soils (for
example, there are up to 50 earthworms in a square foot [0.09 square
meters] of good soil), there is a whole world of soil organisms that you
cannot see unless you use sophisticated and expensive optics. Only then
do the tiny, microscopic organisms‹bacteria, fungi, protozoa,
nematodes‹appear, and in numbers that are nothing less than staggering.
A mere teaspoon of good garden soil, as measured by microbial
geneticists, contains a billion invisible bacteria, several
yards of equally invisible fungal hyphae, several thousand protozoa, and
a few dozen nematodes.

The common denominator of all soil life is that every organism needs
energy to survive. While a few bacteria, known as chemosynthesizers,
derive energy from sulfur, nitrogen, or even iron compounds, the rest
have to eat something containing carbon in order to get the energy they
need to sustain life. Carbon may come from organic material supplied by
plants, waste products produced by other organisms, or the bodies of
other organisms. The first order of business of all soil life is
obtaining carbon to fuel metabolism‹it is an eat-and-be-eaten world, in
and on soil.

Most organisms eat more than one kind of prey, so if you make a diagram
of who eats whom in and on the soil, the straight-line food chain
instead becomes a series of food chains linked and cross-linked to each
other, creating a web of food chains, or a soil food web. Each soil
environment has a different set of organisms and thus a different soil
food web. This is the simple, graphical definition of a soil food web,
though as you can imagine, this and other diagrams represent complex and
highly organized sets of interactions, relationships, and chemical and
physical processes. The story each tells, however, is a simple one and
always starts with the plant.

Plants are in control

Most gardeners think of plants as only taking up nutrients through root
systems and feeding the leaves. Few realize that a great deal of the
energy that results from photosynthesis in the leaves is actually used
by plants to produce chemicals they secrete through their roots. These
secretions are known as exudates. A good analogy is perspiration, a
human's exudate.

Root exudates are in the form of carbohydrates (including sugars) and
proteins. Amazingly, their presence wakes up, attracts, and grows
specific beneficial bacteria and fungi living in the soil that subsist
on these exudates and the cellular material sloughed off as the plant's
root tips grow. All this secretion of exudates and sloughing-off of
cells takes place in the rhizosphere, a zone immediately around the
roots, extending out about a tenth of an inch, or a couple of
millimeters (1 millimeter = 1/25 inch). The rhizosphere, which can look
like a jelly or jam under the electron microscope, contains a constantly
changing mix of soil organisms, including bacteria, fungi, nematodes,
protozoa, and even larger organisms. All this ³life" competes for the
exudates in the rhizosphere, or its water or mineral content.

At the bottom of the soil food web are bacteria and fungi, which are
attracted to and consume plant root exudates. In turn, they attract and
are eaten by bigger microbes, specifically nematodes and protozoa
(remember the amoebae, paramecia, flagellates, and ciliates you should
have studied in biology?), who eat bacteria and fungi (primarily for
carbon) to fuel their metabolic functions. Anything they don't need is
excreted as wastes, which plant roots are readily able to absorb as
nutrients. How convenient that this production of plant nutrients takes
place right in the rhizosphere, the site of root-nutrient absorption. .

.. . . Soil bacteria and fungi are like small bags of fertilizer,
retaining in their bodies nitrogen and other nutrients they gain from
root exudates and other organic matter (such as those sloughed-off
root-tip cells). Carrying on the analogy, soil protozoa and nematodes
act as ³fertilizer spreaders" by releasing , the nutrients locked up in
the bacteria and fungi ³fertilizer bags." The nematodes and protozoa in
the soil come along and eat the bacteria and fungi in the, rhizosphere.
They digest what they need to survive and excrete excess carbon and
other nutrients as waste.

Left to their own devices, then, plants produce exudates that attract
fungi and bacteria (and, ultimately, nematodes and protozoa); their
survival depends on the interplay between these microbes. It is a
completely natural system, the very same one that has fueled plants
since they evolved. Soil life provides the nutrients needed for plant
life, and plants initiate and fuel the cycle by producing exudates. .

.. . . Ingham and some of her graduate students at OSU also noticed a
correlation between plants and their preference for soils that were
fungally dominated versus those that were bacterially dominated or
neutral. Since the path from bacterial to fungal domination in soils
follows the general course of plant succession, it became easy to
predict what type of soil particular plants preferred by noting where
they came from. In general, perennials, trees, and shrubs prefer
fungally dominated soils, while annuals, grasses, and vegetables prefer
soils dominated by bacteria.

One implication of these findings, for the gardener, has to do with the
nitrogen in bacteria and fungi. Remember, this is what the soil food web
means to a plant: when these organisms are eaten, some of the nitrogen
is retained by the eater, but much of it is released as waste in the
form of plant-available ammonium (NH3). Depending on the soil
environment, this can either remain as
ammonium or be converted into nitrate (NO3,) by special bacteria. When
does this conversion occur? When ammonium is released in soils that are
dominated by bacteria. This is because such soils generally have an
alkaline pH (thanks to bacterial bioslime), which encourages the
nitrogen-fixing bacteria to thrive. The acids produced by fungi, as
they begin to dominate, lower the pH
and greatly reduce the amount of these bacteria. In fungally dominated
soils, much of the nitrogen remains in ammonium form.

Ah, here is the rub: chemical fertilizers provide plants with nitrogen,
but most do so in the form of nitrates (NO3). An understanding of the
soil food web makes it clear, however, that plants that prefer fungally
dominated soils ultimately won't flourish on a diet of nitrates. Knowing
this can make a great deal of difference in the way you manage your
gardens and yard. If you can cause either fungi or bacteria to dominate,
or provide an equal mix (and you can‹just how is explained in Part 2),
then plants can get the kind of nitrogen they prefer, without chemicals,
and thrive.

Negative impacts on the soil food web

Chemical fertilizers negatively impact the soil food web by killing off
entire portions of it. What gardener hasn't seen what table salt does to
a slug? Fertilizers are salts; they suck the water out of the bacteria,
fungi, protozoa, and nematodes in the soil. Since these microbes are at
the very foundation of the soil food web nutrient system, you have to
keep adding fertilizer once you start using it regularly. The
microbiology is missing and not there to do its job, feeding the plants.

It makes sense that once the bacteria, fungi, nematodes, and protozoa
are gone, other members of the food web disappear as well. Earthworms,
for example, lacking food and irritated by the synthetic nitrates in
soluble nitrogen fertilizers, move out. Since they are major shredders
of organic material, their absence is a great loss. Without the activity
and diversity of a healthy food web, you not only impact the nutrient
system but all the other things a healthy soil food web brings. Soil
structure deteriorates, watering can become problematic," pathogens and
pests establish themselves and, worst of all, gardening becomes a lot
more work than it needs to be.

If the salt-based chemical fertilizers don't kill portions of the soil
food web, rototilling will.

-----


Gaia's Garden, Second Edition: A Guide To Home-Scale Permaculture
(Paperback)
by Toby Hemenway
http://www.amazon.com/Gaias-Garden-S...culture/dp/160
3580298/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1271266976&sr=1-1
(Available at a library near you, until they close.)


The Soil's Mineral Wealth

Having covered humus, let's look at the parts of our leaf that meet a
mineral fate. Like most living things, leaves are made primarily of
carbon-containing compounds: sugars, proteins, starches, and many other
organic molecules. When soil creatures eat these compounds, some of the
carbon becomes part of the consumer, as cell membrane,
wing case, eyeball, or the like. And some of the carbon is released as a
gas: carbon dioxide, or CO, (our breath contains carbon dioxide for the
same reason). Soil organisms consume the other elements that make up the
leaf, too, such as nitrogen, calcium, phosphorus, and all the rest, but
most of those are reincorporated into solid matter‹organism or bug
manure‹and remain earthbound. A substantial portion of the carbon,
however, puffs into the atmosphere as carbon dioxide. This means that,
in decomposing matter, the ratio of carbon to the other elements is
decreasing; carbon drifts into the air, but most nitrogen, for example,
stays behind. The carbon-to-nitrogen ratio decreases. (Compost
enthusiasts will recognize this C:N ratio as a critical element of a
good compost pile.) In decomposition, carbon levels drop quickly, while
the amounts of the other elements in our decomposing leaf stay roughly
the same.

By the time the final rank of soil organisms, the microbes, is finished
swarming over the leaf and digesting it, most of the consumable
carbon‹that which is not tied up as humus‹is gone. Little remains but
inorganic (non-carbon-containing) compounds, such as phosphate, nitrate,
sulfate, and other chemicals that most gardeners will recognize from the
printing on bags of fertilizer. That's right: Microbes make plant
fertilizer right in the soil. This process of stripping the inorganic
plant food from organic, carbon-containing compounds and returning it to
the soil is called mineralization. Minerals‹the nitrates and phosphates
and others‹are tiny, usually highly mobile molecules

p.79
that dissolve easily in water. This means that, once the minerals in
organic debris are released or fertilizer is poured onto the soil, these
mineral nutrients don't hang around long but are easily leached out
of soil by rain.

Conventional wisdom has it that plant root are the main imbibers of soil
minerals and that plants can only absorb these minerals (fertilizers) if
they are in a water-soluble form, but neither premise is
true. Roots occupy only a tiny fraction of the soil, so most soil
minerals‹and most chemical fertilizers‹never make direct contact with
roots. Unless these isolated, lonely minerals are snapped up by
humus or soil organisms, they leach away. It's the humus and the life in
the soil that keep the earth fertile by holding on to nutrients that
would otherwise wash out of the soil into streams, lakes, and
eventually the ocean.

Agricultural chemists have missed the boat with their soluble
fertilizers; they're doing things the hard way by using an engineering
approach rather than an ecological one. Yes, plants are quite capable
of absorbing the water-soluble minerals in chemical fertilizer. But
plants often use only 10 percent of the fertilizer that's applied and
rarely more than 50 percent. The rest washes into the groundwater,
which is why so many wells in our farmlands are polluted with toxic
levels of nitrates.

Applying fertilizer the way nature does‹tied to organic matter‹uses far
less fertilizer and also saves the energy consumed in producing,
shipping and applying it. It also supports a broad assortment of soil
life, which widens the base of our living pyramid and enhances rather
than reduces biodiversity. In addition, plants get a balanced diet
instead of being force-fed and are healthier. It's well documented that
plants grown on soil rich in organic matter are more disease- and
insect-resistant than plants in carbon-poor soil.

In short, a properly tuned ecological garden rarely needs soluble
fertilizers because plants and soil animals can knock nutrients loose
from humus and organic debris (or clay, another nutrient storage
source) using secretions of mild acid and enzymes. Most of the nutrients
in healthy soil are "insoluble yet available," in the words of soil
scientist William Albrecht. These nutrients, bound to organic matter or
cycling among fast-living microbes,won't' wash out of the soil yet can
be gently coaxed loose ‹ or traded for sugar secretions‹ by roots. And
the plants take up only what they need. This turns out to be very
little, since plants are 85 percent water, and much of the rest is
carbon from the air. A fat half-pound tomato, for example, only draws
about 50 milligrams of phosphorus and 500 milligrams of potassium from
the soil. That's easy to replace in a humus-rich garden that uses
mulches, composts, and nutrient-accumulating plants.

A Question of Balance

Sometimes gardening books single out soil organisms as bad guys‹they
supposedly "lock up" nutrients, making them unavailable for plants. In
an imbalanced soil, this is true. Soil life is much more mobile than
plants and has a speedier metabolism. When hungry, microbes can grab
nutrients faster than roots. As William Albrecht says, "Microbes dine at
the first table." If the soil life is starved by poor soil, microbes
certainly won't pass on any food to plants.

For example, a common soil problem is too little nitrogen. Nitrogen is
used in proteins and cell membranes, and plants lacking this nutrient
are pale and anemic. Gardeners are often admonished not to use wood
shavings or straw as a soil amendment because they lead to nitrogen
deficiency. This is because shavings and straw, though good sources of
carbon, are very low in nitrogen (see Table 4-1). These nitrogen-poor
amendments are fine for use as mulch, on top of the soil, but when they
are mixed into the soil with a spade or tiller, decomposer organisms,
which need a balanced diet

p.80
of about twenty to thirty parts carbon for each part nitrogen, go on a
carbon-fueled rampage. It's analogous to the whopping metabolic rush
that a big dose of sugar can give you: a great short-term blast, but one
that depletes other nutrients and leaves you drained.

To balance this straw-powered carbon feast, soil life grabs every bit of
available nitrogen, eating, breeding, and growing as fast as the low
levels of this nutrient will allow. The ample but imbalanced food
triggers a population explosion among the microbes. Soon the secondary
and tertiary decomposers (beetles, spiders, ants), spurred by a surge in
their prey, are also breeding like fury. Whenever any valuable nitrogen
is released in the form of dead bodies or waste, some tiny, hungry
critter instantly consumes it before plants can. The plant roots lose
out because the microbes dine at the first table. This madly racing but
lopsided feeding frenzy won't diminish until the overabundant carbon is
either consumed or balanced by imports of nitrogen‹from the air via
bacteria that pull nitrogen from the air, from animal manure, or from an
observant gardener with a bag of blood meal.

The same lockups occur when other nutrients are lacking in the soil.
Until the soil life is properly fed, the plants can't eat. Conventional
farming gets around this problem by flooding- the soil with inorganic
fertilizer, ten times what the plants can consume. But this, the
engineer's approach rather than the biologist's, creates water pollution
and problem-prone plants. The soil life, and the soil itself, suffers
from the imbalance.

Here's what happens to soil life after overzealous application of
chemical fertilizer. Mixing inorganic fertilizer with soil creates a
surplus of mineral nutrients (an excess is always needed, since so much
washes away). Now the food in short supply is carbon. Once again, the
soil life roars into a feeding frenzy, spurred by the more-than-ample
nitrogen, phosphorus, and potassium in typical

p.81
NPK fertilizers. Since organisms need about twenty parts carbon for
every one of nitrogen, it isn't long before any available carbon is
pulled from the soil's organic matter to match all that nitrogen and
tied up in living bodies. These organisms exhale carbon dioxide, so a
proportion of carbon is lost with each generation. First the easily
digestible organic matter is eaten, then, more slowly, the humus.
Eventually nearly all the soil's carbon is gone (chemically fed soils
are notoriously poor in organic matter), and the soil life, starved of
this essential food, begins to die. Species of soil organisms that can't
survive the shortages go extinct locally. Some of these creatures may
play critical roles, perhaps secreting antibiotics to protect plants, or
transferring an essential nutrient, or breaking down an otherwise
inedible compound. With important links missing, the soil life falls far
out of balance. Natural predators begin to die off, so some of their
prey organisms, no longer kept in check in this torn food web, surge in
numbers and become pests.

Sadly, many of the creatures that remain after this mineral overdose are
those that have learned to survive on the one remaining source of
carbon: your plants. Burning carbon out of the soil with chemical
fertilizers can actually select for disease organisms. All manner of
chomping, sucking, mildewing, blackening, spotting horrors descend on
the vegetation. With the natural controls gone and disease ravishing
every green thing, humans must step in with sprays. But the
now-destructive organisms have what they need to thrive‹the food and
shelter of garden plants‹and they will breed whenever the now-essential
human intervention diminishes. The gardener is locked on a chemical
treadmill. It's a losing battle, reflected in the fact that we use
twenty times the pesticides we di d fifty years ago, yet crop losses to
insects and disease have doubled, according to USDA statistics.

The other harm done by injudicious use of chemical fertilizers is to the
soil itself. As organic matter is burned up by wildly feeding soil life,
the soil loses its ability to hold water and air. Its tilth is
destroyed. The desperate soil life feeds on the humus itself, the food
of last resort. With humus and all other organic matter gone, the soil
loses its fluffy, friable structure and collapses. Clayey soil compacts
to concrete; silty soil desiccates to dust and blows away.

In contrast, ample soil life boosts both the soil structure and the
health of your plants. When the soil food web is chock-full of
diversity, diseases are held in check. If a bacterial blight begins to
bloom, a balanced supply of predators grazes this food surplus back into
line. When a fungal disease threatens, microbial and insect denizens are
there to capitalize on this new supply of their favorite food.

Living soil is the foundation of a healthy garden.
--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/


  #6   Report Post  
Old 05-07-2011, 08:04 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,358
Default Miracle gro

"Billy" wrote in message

Instead of responding to Gunny's disingenuous prevarications, or his
chronic cranial-rectal inversion, let me simply quote the following,


Why bother Billy. I've found my killfile has an infinite capacity despite
the efforts of the trolls to try to repeatedly escape.


  #7   Report Post  
Old 05-07-2011, 06:57 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,438
Default Miracle gro

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message

Instead of responding to Gunny's disingenuous prevarications, or his
chronic cranial-rectal inversion, let me simply quote the following,


Why bother Billy. I've found my killfile has an infinite capacity despite
the efforts of the trolls to try to repeatedly escape.


Oh, he's already in my KF, Fran. I only see his posts when someone else
quotes him, and I usually ignore them. I wouldn't have responded except
that it was a new poster, and Gunny was recommending using the same
agricultural approach that has already so damaged the environment. I'm
about as main stream in organic gardening à la Rodale as one can get. I
try to grow soil, and let the soil grow the plants in an environment
free from man-made chemicals. However, Gunny's recommendation that the
OP get their garden soil tested was sound, but with proper nurturing,
and treatment most any soil will become good gardening soil.

Thanks for the address for SBS http://www.sbs.com.au/
The variety of news broadcasts in Australia makes me feel down right
provincial.

SBS has Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, Spanish, Greek, French,
German, Hindi, Arabic, Russian, Italian, and Turkish news broadcasts,
wow.

The best news we get here is from Democracy Now, the BBC, and the
"Journal" from Deutsche Welle. (Did you know that NATO was supporting
the backers of the deposed King Idris, who was installed on the Libyan
throne by the Brits? That's about one sixth of the Libyan population.
Operation Independence for Libya [OIL]. We've been scammed again!

Meanwhile back at the "cultural corner" of the garden, maybe the
Montalbano programs were "touched up" to be less objectionable to a
potential buyer (43 episodes at $10 AU/episode, or at Amazon $12
USian/episode). It didn't seem right that Australians would be prudes,
after all, we got both the criminals, AND the Calvinistic, Puritan,
Taliban style, wacko fundamentalists. The main character in the TV's
Montalbano is kinda a "hunk" type of persona, in a Sicilian working
class setting. No gentrification here. It's all grit, and in need of
repairs. Although a French friend of mine once told me that he liked
seeing the "father stone" underneath the missing plaster on buildings.
Lovey-poo, my wife, has read some of Andrea Camilleri's Montalbano
books, and she was somewhat disappointed with the Salvo Montalbano
character, because in the books he is more of a Georges Simenon's
Maigret type. A 50 something, overweight cop, with a penchant for good
wine, and food.
That reminds me, I haven't had breakfast yet;O)

Ciao.
--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/
  #8   Report Post  
Old 06-07-2011, 02:54 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,358
Default Miracle gro

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message

Instead of responding to Gunny's disingenuous prevarications, or his
chronic cranial-rectal inversion, let me simply quote the following,


Why bother Billy. I've found my killfile has an infinite capacity
despite
the efforts of the trolls to try to repeatedly escape.


Oh, he's already in my KF, Fran. I only see his posts when someone else
quotes him, and I usually ignore them.


And that is still a sound policy IMO. Their posts soon give them away as
trolls who feel needy for attention.

Thanks for the address for SBS http://www.sbs.com.au/
The variety of news broadcasts in Australia makes me feel down right
provincial.

SBS has Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, Spanish, Greek, French,
German, Hindi, Arabic, Russian, Italian, and Turkish news broadcasts,
wow.


But if you don't speak those languages, there's rather limited value to the
mainstream in having them. I'm sure it's advantageous to the ethnic groups
who speak those langusage, but my French isn't even up coping with the speed
of the French news.

I do like the films though and the less mainstream sports. The Tour de
France is on ATM and that is of course well worth watching. It's playing
merry hell with our sleep patterns given that it concludes around 3 am - I
haven't yet managed to watch one stage through to the line - maybe by the
end of the 3 weeks if I build up to it.

Meanwhile back at the "cultural corner" of the garden, maybe the
Montalbano programs were "touched up" to be less objectionable to a
potential buyer (43 episodes at $10 AU/episode, or at Amazon $12
USian/episode). It didn't seem right that Australians would be prudes,


I have no idea what they may have done, but as I said, there is lots of
raunchy stuff to be seen on that channel.

after all, we got both the criminals, AND the Calvinistic, Puritan,
Taliban style, wacko fundamentalists. The main character in the TV's
Montalbano is kinda a "hunk" type of persona, in a Sicilian working
class setting. No gentrification here. It's all grit, and in need of
repairs. Although a French friend of mine once told me that he liked
seeing the "father stone" underneath the missing plaster on buildings.
Lovey-poo, my wife, has read some of Andrea Camilleri's Montalbano
books, and she was somewhat disappointed with the Salvo Montalbano
character, because in the books he is more of a Georges Simenon's
Maigret type. A 50 something, overweight cop, with a penchant for good
wine, and food.
That reminds me, I haven't had breakfast yet;O)


I used to enjoy Maigret.

Ask Lovey-poo if she's read any of Donna Leon's books. The cop hero is well
worth getting to know - set in Venice so stylish in location, urbane in
persona, well written and with corruption lurking like something nasty in
the woodshed. (Apologies for mixing Cold Comfort allusions with vaporetto
fumes)


  #9   Report Post  
Old 06-07-2011, 05:26 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jul 2006
Posts: 535
Default Miracle gro

chablonski wrote:
Hi, is this ok to use on vegetable plants, sorry to be thick but Im
learning!


Yes it's fine as long as you don't overdo it. But diluted **** works
just as well and it's cheaper.

-Bob
  #10   Report Post  
Old 06-07-2011, 06:05 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,438
Default Miracle gro

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
...
In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message

Instead of responding to Gunny's disingenuous prevarications, or his
chronic cranial-rectal inversion, let me simply quote the following,

Why bother Billy. I've found my killfile has an infinite capacity
despite
the efforts of the trolls to try to repeatedly escape.


Oh, he's already in my KF, Fran. I only see his posts when someone else
quotes him, and I usually ignore them.


And that is still a sound policy IMO. Their posts soon give them away as
trolls who feel needy for attention.

Thanks for the address for SBS http://www.sbs.com.au/
The variety of news broadcasts in Australia makes me feel down right
provincial.

SBS has Korean, Japanese, Chinese, Filipino, Spanish, Greek, French,
German, Hindi, Arabic, Russian, Italian, and Turkish news broadcasts,
wow.


But if you don't speak those languages, there's rather limited value to the
mainstream in having them. I'm sure it's advantageous to the ethnic groups
who speak those langusage, but my French isn't even up coping with the speed
of the French news.


French is spoken about 30% to 50% faster than English, but to be fair,
TF 1, 2, and 3 speak more slowly and use simpler words in reporting the
news (l'actualité) than than other programs do.

The Journal (Deutsche Welle) is in English, and in languages that I
don't speak, I can usually make out the location where video was taken,
and a picture is worth a thousand words. Then again, in the "Romance"
languages, there are the occasional words that come through, loud and
clear, which helps with tuning my ear. Spanish, French, and Italian have
many words that mean and sound the same, but are spelt differently. Then
there are those damn false cognates.

I do like the films though and the less mainstream sports. The Tour de
France is on ATM and that is of course well worth watching. It's playing
merry hell with our sleep patterns given that it concludes around 3 am - I
haven't yet managed to watch one stage through to the line - maybe by the
end of the 3 weeks if I build up to it.

We'er 9 hours different from France, here on the "Left" (west) coast.
Late dinner here is about the same time as early "petit déjeuner" there.

Meanwhile back at the "cultural corner" of the garden, maybe the
Montalbano programs were "touched up" to be less objectionable to a
potential buyer (43 episodes at $10 AU/episode, or at Amazon $12
USian/episode). It didn't seem right that Australians would be prudes,


I have no idea what they may have done, but as I said, there is lots of
raunchy stuff to be seen on that channel.

after all, we got both the criminals, AND the Calvinistic, Puritan,
Taliban style, wacko fundamentalists. The main character in the TV's
Montalbano is kinda a "hunk" type of persona, in a Sicilian working
class setting. No gentrification here. It's all grit, and in need of
repairs. Although a French friend of mine once told me that he liked
seeing the "father stone" underneath the missing plaster on buildings.
Lovey-poo, my wife, has read some of Andrea Camilleri's Montalbano
books, and she was somewhat disappointed with the Salvo Montalbano
character, because in the books he is more of a Georges Simenon's
Maigret type. A 50 something, overweight cop, with a penchant for good
wine, and food.
That reminds me, I haven't had breakfast yet;O)


I used to enjoy Maigret.

Ask Lovey-poo if she's read any of Donna Leon's books. The cop hero is well
worth getting to know - set in Venice so stylish in location, urbane in
persona, well written and with corruption lurking like something nasty in
the woodshed. (Apologies for mixing Cold Comfort allusions with vaporetto
fumes)


Hadn't heard of Donna Leon, but we appear to be the minority. There are
98 holds for "Drawing Conclusions", her latest. I ordered the one with
no holds, "Through a Glass Darkly".

Do you have a favorite?

Thanks.
--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/


  #11   Report Post  
Old 06-07-2011, 08:22 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,072
Default Miracle gro

FarmI wrote:
Billy wrote:

Instead of responding to Gunny's disingenuous prevarications, or his
chronic cranial-rectal inversion, let me simply quote the following,


Why bother Billy. I've found my killfile has an infinite capacity despite
the efforts of the trolls to try to repeatedly escape.


for humor value alone, it was worth reading
the rant about blindly selling something when
the replies that said to read up on things, to
use organic materials/mulches (which often are
freely available), etc.

yeah, that's blindly selling something compared
to going out and buying Miracle Gro, Osmacote and
$15 soil tests. all things that gardeners didn't
need for thousands of years...

gotta laugh,


songbird
  #12   Report Post  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:14 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,358
Default Miracle gro

"Billy" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:


Ask Lovey-poo if she's read any of Donna Leon's books. The cop hero is
well
worth getting to know - set in Venice so stylish in location, urbane in
persona, well written and with corruption lurking like something nasty in
the woodshed. (Apologies for mixing Cold Comfort allusions with
vaporetto
fumes)


Hadn't heard of Donna Leon, but we appear to be the minority. There are
98 holds for "Drawing Conclusions", her latest. I ordered the one with
no holds, "Through a Glass Darkly".

Do you have a favorite?


I haven't read them all, but those I have read have all been good. I do
have a soft spot though for 'Death at La Fenice' because it's the first of
the series, it was the first of hers I'd read, and it was just so refreshing
to find a writer who can write well and who can tell a ripping yarn even
when producing light fiction. I like Janet Evanovich, but although she
tells a ripping yarn, her writing is poor (and her editors are obviously not
up to their jobs - eg. she writes about 'couple things' when a 'couple of
things' is what is meant).


  #13   Report Post  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:19 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Feb 2007
Posts: 2,358
Default Miracle gro

"Derald" wrote in message
m...

Superbly done, Sir or Madame, if one may call you that.


Derald, just WHAT are you on about?

You have not left anything from any previous post to indicates what just
what you think has been superbly done. Do you expect us to all just sit
here at our computers and play guessing games about what you are thinking?


  #14   Report Post  
Old 07-07-2011, 07:47 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Mar 2010
Posts: 2,438
Default Miracle gro

In article ,
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message
"FarmI" ask@itshall be given wrote:


Ask Lovey-poo if she's read any of Donna Leon's books. The cop hero is
well
worth getting to know - set in Venice so stylish in location, urbane in
persona, well written and with corruption lurking like something nasty in
the woodshed. (Apologies for mixing Cold Comfort allusions with
vaporetto
fumes)


Hadn't heard of Donna Leon, but we appear to be the minority. There are
98 holds for "Drawing Conclusions", her latest. I ordered the one with
no holds, "Through a Glass Darkly".

Do you have a favorite?


I haven't read them all, but those I have read have all been good. I do
have a soft spot though for

'Death at La Fenice': a Commissario Guido Brunetti mystery. Hmmm.
Written 2004, and there are still 2 holds on it. Must be good.
This usenet is pretty damn good. I got what I wanted, and it was even in
the wrong group.


because it's the first of
the series, it was the first of hers I'd read, and it was just so refreshing
to find a writer who can write well and who can tell a ripping yarn even
when producing light fiction. I like Janet Evanovich, but although she
tells a ripping yarn, her writing is poor (and her editors are obviously not
up to their jobs - eg. she writes about 'couple things' when a 'couple of
things' is what is meant).



á bientôt
--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/
  #15   Report Post  
Old 07-07-2011, 03:08 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
external usenet poster
 
First recorded activity by GardenBanter: Jun 2010
Posts: 3,072
Default Miracle gro

FarmI wrote:
"Derald" wrote in message
m...

Superbly done, Sir or Madame, if one may call you that.


Derald, just WHAT are you on about?


Derald, Gunnar and Billy are on about
each other. they need to get a room.

has anyone grown cloves?


songbird
Reply
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules

Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Miracle-Gro® Evergreen Fertilizer Spikes Requester Gardening 0 07-05-2003 06:56 PM
Q) Miracle Gro Potting Soil - Worth it? Dr. Rev. Chuck, M.D. P.A. Gardening 8 07-05-2003 06:20 AM
Miracle-Gro AZ CO & CA Freshwater Aquaria Plants 0 20-04-2003 07:21 AM
Miracle-Gro Creno Freshwater Aquaria Plants 4 20-04-2003 07:20 AM
miracle gro enriched potting mix Zphysics1 Edible Gardening 10 16-04-2003 06:56 PM


All times are GMT +1. The time now is 12:22 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2024, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Copyright ©2004-2024 GardenBanter.co.uk.
The comments are property of their posters.
 

About Us

"It's about Gardening"

 

Copyright © 2017