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#1
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peas again
songbird wrote:
.... the fun continues... the lack of a hard frost has meant actual pea pods have made it to harvest. they are 2-3ft tall and flowering up a storm. about 37 days from pea to edible pod. the low temperatures we had a few nights last week took out the squash and the tops of the green pepper plants. there are still green peppers developing though so no reason to give up yet there. tomatoes still producing a few here or there. much picking of dry beans lately. 6-8lbs of pinto beans already and several lbs of the many other beans too. much more to come as they ripen/dry. strawberries flowering again. songbird |
#2
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peas again
Derald wrote:
.... Warning: I'm listening to very old shitkicker music performed by George Jones and drinking whisky. not something i would ever choose to mix. i'll leave that to the pros... In truth, I do not envy you folks who write of October frosts. i'm hoping things will hold off for a bit yet. i need a few more days to finish up the staining and then a few other days to get some other things done outside. The Little Marvel peas that I planted earlier this month are thriving. when the little peas babies are a few inches taller, pla jn to plant some old timey mustard greens under them. glad to hear things are going well. have you done the mustard greens under them before? Will plant more peas on 9/29. This time of year, I plant them at about three week intervals. The irony is that the peas are most frost sensitive when they're in full bloom and, of course, that'll be about the time we have freezing temperatures donw here. Tohse can occur anytime between about thanksgiving and February: One never knows. Oh, my, typing this is far too much work. haha, well i hope you slept well after all that? i finished the first pick through of the one pinto bean patch just in time before this round of rains returned. shelled them out as a nice break from staining. measured them on the scale at about 10lbs. not bad for a cover crop on a spot i'd normally have left bare. songbird |
#3
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peas again
Derald wrote:
songbird wrote: Derald wrote: ... Warning: I'm listening to very old shitkicker music performed by George Jones and drinking whisky. not something i would ever choose to mix. i'll leave that to the pros... Shoot; the two were made for each other. The relationship is symbiotic. heh, i'll still leave it to others, i need every brain cell i have left. snip glad to hear things are going well. have you done the mustard greens under them before? Yes; my planting pattern for the peas is not terribly space-efficient, so I always plant something else in the beds with them. Caveats are to wait for the peas to get tall enough as not to be shaded out by faster growing and to avoid plants that might require supplemental nitrogen before the peas are done. Also, it helps if the understorey is a crop that can continue after the peas are done. i made the mistake in my first planting of not letting the peas grow another week or two before putting in the lettuce seeds. they rapidly took over. i did get a crop from the peas, but not nearly as much as what i'm seeing now with the peas growing alone. snip haha, well i hope you slept well after all that? Who remembers? LOL! Today's the day for second planting of peas. The bed's ready, save for placing the dripline. Also will plant collards but in a separate bed. Need to install the dripline there, too. This spring, as beds became available, I began converting to dripline irrigation from those dreadful soaker hoses that I once thought so wonderful. i'm keeping things simple here -- going back to trench and flood irrigation for a few gardens next year. we are lucky that water is not a limiting factor for us. Temperatures down here have begun to moderate somewhat. Lows in the 60's are predicted for the next few days but that's only temporary. By midweek, I expect we'll be back to normal lows in the mid-70's. No danger yet to the chill-sensitive garden denizens. The end of tropical storm season also is the end of our rainy "season". Although not unheard of, I don't expect any significant rainfall before mid-December or, maybe, Christmas. The cooling temps have triggered a flush of blossoms on the cowpeas -- or, maybe, they overheard me speaking of pulling them up -- ("Southern peas", "blackeye peas") which is a mixed blessing: i'd never even tried growing blackeye peas until this season. as i put them in late i didn't really expect a crop. it looked like i just squeaked by and the pods are drying out now. they probably could have used another month. being flooded out four times probably didn't help either. too much rain the past few days for dry bean harvesting. i really enjoyed how they grew being so different than many of the other beans. with the pods sticking out like antennae. i didn't have them growing up a fence or trellis, that probably would have helped them a lot too. Although, I'm grateful for the unexpected produce for the freezer those two beds soon will be needed for garlic or onions and need preparation well in advance. I have a couple of yards of chicken manure that came from a covered chicken house on a now-defunct egg operation. Dry, it smells of ammonina and wet, believe me, it reverts to its raw state or, at least, certainly seems to do. At any rate, after adding (some of) it to the beds, I want to allow some "resting" time before planting onion sets or garlic. Do not accept any further gardening advice from someone who tells you that "fresh", "green", "raw" chicken manure does not need composting before use as a soil amendment and will not damage plants! go light with that stuff for the garlic and onion patches. too much nitrogen means more green up top and more bug troubles below. i finished the first pick through of the one pinto bean patch just in time before this round of rains returned. shelled them out as a nice break from staining. measured them on the scale at about 10lbs. not bad for a cover crop on a spot i'd normally have left bare. Staining wood, leather, lab specimens, or....?? staining the house. it's mostly red cedar slab siding. a lot of edges that show. i still have the eves to do (which means painting upside down and carefully around the 70someodd vents). the recent rains and a pulled tendon has given me a time-out -- the foot feels better, this weekend will have me back to it, i'd like to get this done so i can get the gardens finished up i'd like to redo. What do you do with the bean vines? Do you turn them under, put them in a composting area? I don't grow any kind of shelly beans except "baby" lima beans and we eat or freeze those ffresh and somewhat immature. I don't grow anything specifically as a cover crop. The garden is deliberately small and is planned around our nearly continuous growing season. I do, however, track nutrient needs when succession planting. Everything from the garden, including "weeds" goes to compost. for the perennial bulb gardens i'll cut those beans off at ground level so that the roots and nitrogen fixing nodules will be left behind to rot and feed the bulbs through the winter and spring. this will be the first year of trying this approach so we'll see how it goes. all the pods will get used one way or another. last year i put all the soybean pods through the worm bins. made good worm poo eventually. this season i'll have a lot more pods. a few bags i'll keep for the winter worm bins, the rest will get buried or used as mulch. i am filling in three strawberry patches (about 2000sqft total space) and each of those can use plenty of mulch on top along with organic materials worked into the soil. the compost pile doesn't get much other than stubborn weed root clumps or seedy weeds. for people with limited space it's not really worth planting dry beans for that alone as they are cheap enough in bulk. i like messing around and have various empty spaces or patches in transition to play with. i'll keep planting them now that i know what each is like i can plant more suitably. knowing me i'll keep collecting varieties as i come across them. songbird |
#4
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peas again
Derald wrote:
songbird wrote: snip i'm keeping things simple here -- going back to trench and flood irrigation for a few gardens next year. we are lucky that water is not a limiting factor for us. I did that for many years but shortly after moving here in '96, DW began building raised beds and the slow drip irrigation works better in them. I buy a prefab product that has 1/2 gal/hr uncompensated emitters at 6" spacing. Before installation, I measure the ROF of each strand at 25PSI so that I can monitor volume with a simple kitchen timer. I tried using those soaker hoses made from old tires but found them to be fragile and almost impossible to repair reliably. The nuisance factor just got to be too high. Keep in mind that, for all practical purposes, whatever components I use are exposed to the elements year 'round. Life expectancy of the dripline remains unknown. i'll be interested in hearing how long they actually do last for you. we have raised beds too and yes, that does make flood irrigation trenches a challenge, but i'd rather have a way of watering from the side and letting it flow in than having to get the leaves wet. Water use isn't restricted in these parts but it is severely so in two adjacent, far more urban, counties. A family member, who lives in one of those counties, was ticketed for watering ornamenals with air conditioner condensate discharge; go figure.... wow, that's pretty extreme! Changing rainfall patterns and continured urbanization have lowered the water table significantly within the past ten-or-so years; not a good sign. I conserve but primarily because I begrudge paying the electricity utility company to pump water out of the ground for me, LOL. I've kicked myself many times for not arranging some sort of storage that will allow me to use the hovel's roof as a catchment. Maybe next year, he says.... i have a list like that too. our water table is pretty high. we have two ditches through the property that run the whole year. if electricity gets horribly expensive then we could put in a solar system to pump water from a shallow well, but for the most part i'd rather use any solar setup for heating hot water and electricity for the house. that would pay for itself a lot faster than just setting it up for irrigation. snip i'd never even tried growing blackeye peas until this season. as i put them in late i didn't really expect a crop. it looked like i just squeaked by and the pods are drying out now. they probably could have used another month. being flooded out four times probably didn't help either. too much rain the past few days for dry bean harvesting. Cowpeas (just "peas" to Southerners; those spherical green peas in flat pods are "English peas") are a Southern staple. They're shelled and eaten young and immature while still full-flavored and sweet. Sometimes cooked together with okra (gumbo). Often, very young tender pods are broken into suitable lengths and added to the mix. Cowpeas, okra, and -- to a lesser degree -- lima beans are among the few veggies that'll make it through July and August down here. These two beds of peas were planted on July 16 and 21, respectively; the okra on March 24. do people use the dried cowpeas for cooking too or are they too yucko for that? i'm mostly growing the soup beans so i have stuff that keeps without it having to be canned or frozen. i did see a package of cowpeas at a store and almost got them but i didn't. if i see them next year i'll pick some up and give them a try. from what i'm seeing of the blackeyed peas harvest so far they didn't like all the rain we've had lately. i'm not a huge fan of them anyways so i'll grow a much smaller plot next year (as a continuing seed source, to see how they do with a full season and they'll be up higher so they won't get flooded). snip i really enjoyed how they grew being so different than many of the other beans. with the pods sticking out like antennae. i didn't have them growing up a fence or trellis, that probably would have helped them a lot too. That tendency toward vining differs across varieties and varies with plant spacing. Mine are block-planted in two raised beds and fairly closely spaced. They vine somewhat but I no longer trellis them because it does not seem to affect yield, although, picking them requires a little more care. However, I've not done any sort of actual comparison test and do tend to be a bit delusional. i'm pretty sure for the vining pintos it would have helped some as there would have been less loss to rot. i planted them thickly and they climbed all over each other. as it is yet another thing to maintain i'm unlikely to trellis them as i already have plenty to keep me going. if i lose half a pound out of ten from rot and don't have to deal with fiddling with trellis and having to take them down or clean them off at the end of a growing cycle then i consider it a good trade for the time saved. hmm, i think if i saved stalks from the cosmos and planted beans to run on them for the next season they would work well enough. i'll have to keep a bundle for next year to test out. that would be a nice use of them. something simple like a piece of twine at the top and a teepee pattern would not go against my ideas of simplicity and low maint. at the end of the season then they would get buried like everything else. perhaps okra stalks would work too? i asked my brother to save me some okra seeds for next year to try here. snip for the perennial bulb gardens i'll cut those beans off at ground level so that the roots and nitrogen fixing nodules will be left behind to rot and feed the bulbs through the winter and spring. this will be the first year of trying this approach so we'll see how it goes. I just pull'em up and knock the nodules off with my hands. I must till, with hand tools, between plantings in order to combat native tree roots and about every third year I double dig. Compost is dear because I don't have much raw material. Just what comes from the garden and kitchen plus the occasional few bags of leaves that I can glean from the neighborhood. ah... not too many trees here with roots going into the gardens. only had some this year when i've been digging up and redoing the north bean patch. i like the full sun and less maint. with all the stone patches and pathways it is much better to not let leaves or stuff accumulate as then it sprouts weeds. from a few pine trees i'll rake some of the pine needles up and use them for the plants that like 'em. the cedar trees around the borders are all mostly a ways away and the other cedars scattered around are also a ways away from any gardens. a friend is giving me bags and bags of shredded tree bark and branches from an old tree that came down on their lot in the city. i'm very happy and so are they, as they get to reuse the bags. they said they'd give me their shredded leaves later this fall too. i have a large strawberry garden that can use them. i'll have to remember to give them some jam next time i visit. nice neighbors are good to have and keep happy. we are losing one of ours this fall. gonna miss her a lot. i go down and have tea and bring her veggies and fruits when i have extra. *sigh* songbird |
#5
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peas again
"Derald" wrote in message ... songbird wrote: snip i'll be interested in hearing how long they actually do last for you. Well, the hardest part of that will be the remembering, LOL! Don't expect that to get any easier.... snip do people use the dried cowpeas for cooking too or are they too yucko for that? Oh, yes. They're sort of bland because they're too mature. Season them like any other dried legume or beans 'n rice dish, pretty much. Dried peas and rice is called, colloquially, "hoppin' John" and traditionally is eaten on New Year's Day to bring luck. Sort of a cracker version of "Moros y Christianos", a tradional Cuban black beans and rice dish. snip from what i'm seeing of the blackeyed peas harvest so far they didn't like all the rain we've had lately. i'm not a huge fan of them anyways so i'll grow a much smaller plot next year (as a continuing seed source, to see how they do with a full season and they'll be up higher so they won't get flooded). Well, the common blackeye and pinkeye peas from the seed racks are among the least flavorful of the cowpeas but all of them are at their best when young. As they mature they quickly become bland and "starchy". Various "crowder" and "conch" varieties are more productive and more flavorful but are difficult to find outside the South and becoming more difficult to find down here as creeping urbanization kills off the "feed 'n seed" stores that catered to local agriculture. Online, these guys have about the best selection of cowpeas (they call'em "southern peas") that I've found: http://www.southernexposure.com/index.php. -- Derald FL USDA zone 9a http://www.onlineconversion.com/ Sounds like something that should be discussed in a cooking or nutrition newsgroup to me. Steve |
#6
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peas again
Steve B wrote:
"Derald" wrote in message ... songbird wrote: snip i'll be interested in hearing how long they actually do last for you. Well, the hardest part of that will be the remembering, LOL! Don't expect that to get any easier.... snip do people use the dried cowpeas for cooking too or are they too yucko for that? Oh, yes. They're sort of bland because they're too mature. Season them like any other dried legume or beans 'n rice dish, pretty much. Dried peas and rice is called, colloquially, "hoppin' John" and traditionally is eaten on New Year's Day to bring luck. Sort of a cracker version of "Moros y Christianos", a tradional Cuban black beans and rice dish. snip from what i'm seeing of the blackeyed peas harvest so far they didn't like all the rain we've had lately. i'm not a huge fan of them anyways so i'll grow a much smaller plot next year (as a continuing seed source, to see how they do with a full season and they'll be up higher so they won't get flooded). Well, the common blackeye and pinkeye peas from the seed racks are among the least flavorful of the cowpeas but all of them are at their best when young. As they mature they quickly become bland and "starchy". Various "crowder" and "conch" varieties are more productive and more flavorful but are difficult to find outside the South and becoming more difficult to find down here as creeping urbanization kills off the "feed 'n seed" stores that catered to local agriculture. Online, these guys have about the best selection of cowpeas (they call'em "southern peas") that I've found: http://www.southernexposure.com/index.php. -- Derald FL USDA zone 9a http://www.onlineconversion.com/ Sounds like something that should be discussed in a cooking or nutrition newsgroup to me. Steve I don't understand how the growing and eating qualities of pea cultivars is off topic for rec.gardens.edible or was two sentences about cooking old peas too much? David |
#7
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peas again
"David Hare-Scott" wrote in message ... Steve B wrote: "Derald" wrote in message ... songbird wrote: snip i'll be interested in hearing how long they actually do last for you. Well, the hardest part of that will be the remembering, LOL! Don't expect that to get any easier.... snip do people use the dried cowpeas for cooking too or are they too yucko for that? Oh, yes. They're sort of bland because they're too mature. Season them like any other dried legume or beans 'n rice dish, pretty much. Dried peas and rice is called, colloquially, "hoppin' John" and traditionally is eaten on New Year's Day to bring luck. Sort of a cracker version of "Moros y Christianos", a tradional Cuban black beans and rice dish. snip from what i'm seeing of the blackeyed peas harvest so far they didn't like all the rain we've had lately. i'm not a huge fan of them anyways so i'll grow a much smaller plot next year (as a continuing seed source, to see how they do with a full season and they'll be up higher so they won't get flooded). Well, the common blackeye and pinkeye peas from the seed racks are among the least flavorful of the cowpeas but all of them are at their best when young. As they mature they quickly become bland and "starchy". Various "crowder" and "conch" varieties are more productive and more flavorful but are difficult to find outside the South and becoming more difficult to find down here as creeping urbanization kills off the "feed 'n seed" stores that catered to local agriculture. Online, these guys have about the best selection of cowpeas (they call'em "southern peas") that I've found: http://www.southernexposure.com/index.php. -- Derald FL USDA zone 9a http://www.onlineconversion.com/ Sounds like something that should be discussed in a cooking or nutrition newsgroup to me. Steve I don't understand how the growing and eating qualities of pea cultivars is off topic for rec.gardens.edible or was two sentences about cooking old peas too much? David Just as I don't understand my question about eating corn silk being taken by some as not relevant to this newsgroup. BTW, my post above is meant to be taken with a grain of salt. It will give it the proper flavor............. Steve |
#8
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peas again
"Derald" wrote in message ... "David Hare-Scott" wrote: I don't understand how the growing and eating qualities of pea cultivars is off topic for rec.gardens.edible or was two sentences about cooking old peas too much? Growing them and cooking them do seem complementary but, hey, playing topic police may be the high point of his day and if that's all it takes to make little stevie feel useful, well, let him have at it, say I. I'm grateful to have contributed to another's sense of self worth. Truth is, I had thought to suggest that perhaps the thread had drifted a bit but Nanny beat me to it. Are "southern peas" , AKA cowpeas, cultivated in your neck of the woods? -- Derald FL USDA zone 9a http://www.onlineconversion.com/ I thought you had me killfiled. |
#9
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peas again
Derald wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" wrote: I don't understand how the growing and eating qualities of pea cultivars is off topic for rec.gardens.edible or was two sentences about cooking old peas too much? Growing them and cooking them do seem complementary but, hey, playing topic police may be the high point of his day and if that's all it takes to make little stevie feel useful, well, let him have at it, say I. I'm grateful to have contributed to another's sense of self worth. Truth is, I had thought to suggest that perhaps the thread had drifted a bit but Nanny beat me to it. Are "southern peas" , AKA cowpeas, cultivated in your neck of the woods? Yes, they are usually used as stock feed and/or green manure not human food. We miss out on a number of cuisines and types of ingredients that are common in the USA. I dare say the converse is also true. There is no customary way to cook cowpeas so either you have to go it alone from recipe books or pay big money in a big city restaurant where some chef has 'discovered' some cuisine that uses them. Oz has undergone a food revolution in the last 50 years and there is no sign of it abating. Some vegetables such as okra have gone through an adoption process and are now not so rare here, so you can get them in better grocers and ordinary people like me grow them. Okra appears to have originated from Africa and arrived in the US with the slave trade. I guess cowpeas did the same. So maybe we will be eating cowpeas in years to come. I haven't taken time to play with them as I don't especially need a legume to improve my soil and many legumes (eg standard peas , broad beans etc) use up resources to grow large amounts of greenery for a small edible crop and they take time to prepare. I don't find the calories available or the flavour worth the trouble in many cases. If I am wrong about the wonderous taste of cowpeas tell me about it. David |
#10
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peas again
Derald wrote:
songbird wrote: thanks for the note Derald, next time save me a bounce and put a real e-mail addr on there. no, i don't mind the e-mail at all, but consider it kinda strange to get an invalid one in return. snip i'll be interested in hearing how long they actually do last for you. Well, the hardest part of that will be the remembering, LOL! Don't expect that to get any easier.... snip do people use the dried cowpeas for cooking too or are they too yucko for that? Oh, yes. They're sort of bland because they're too mature. Season them like any other dried legume or beans 'n rice dish, pretty much. Dried peas and rice is called, colloquially, "hoppin' John" and traditionally is eaten on New Year's Day to bring luck. Sort of a cracker version of "Moros y Christianos", a tradional Cuban black beans and rice dish. i always thought it was blackeyed peas and collard greens for good luck? snip from what i'm seeing of the blackeyed peas harvest so far they didn't like all the rain we've had lately. i'm not a huge fan of them anyways so i'll grow a much smaller plot next year (as a continuing seed source, to see how they do with a full season and they'll be up higher so they won't get flooded). Well, the common blackeye and pinkeye peas from the seed racks are among the least flavorful of the cowpeas but all of them are at their best when young. ok, so i'm getting educated here as i had no idea there were more than one kind of cowpeas. i've eaten plenty of blackeyed peas and i don't consider them bland. they have a pretty distinctive flavor. but it also sounds like you're saying i could eat them at the green pod stage too (not just the other kind of cowpeas you've mentioned)? As they mature they quickly become bland and "starchy". Various "crowder" and "conch" varieties are more productive and more flavorful but are difficult to find outside the South and becoming more difficult to find down here as creeping urbanization kills off the "feed 'n seed" stores that catered to local agriculture. Online, these guys have about the best selection of cowpeas (they call'em "southern peas") that I've found: http://www.southernexposure.com/index.php. ok, thanks, i'll have to check 'em out sometime when i'm back on-line. songbird |
#11
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peas again
Derald wrote:
songbird wrote: ....all is cool, thanks for the note... snip i always thought it was blackeyed peas and collard greens for good luck? Yep; that, too. ok, good to know we weren't talking about different things and meaning the same or the same things and meaning different, if you get my drift. haha. snip but it also sounds like you're saying i could eat them at the green pod stage too (not just the other kind of cowpeas you've mentioned)? Oh, yes. When they're still immature enough to break easily, they're tender enough to eat in the pod. Some varieties stay tender for longer than others but I don't know of any that aren't edible in the pods at some stage. Called, oddly enough, "snaps", they're most often added to shelled peas (as is okra, too, BTW). There may be another photo in your future.... ok, i'll give them a shot again next year and see if i like them enough. or the cowpeas too. depends if i can find them again. In The Garden: This morning: Trellised cucumbers, pruned jalapeño peppers, trimmed tarragon; yellow squash, bell peppers, jalapeño peppers, tomatoes all blooming. Month-old Little Marvel peas got their mustard greens planted yesterday; 10-2 Little Marvel peas 90% up this morning; 9-30 collards up yesterday; 9-27 "Provider" beans all sprouted around Oct.1 and off to the races. I'm delinquent in planting turnips but we're just now having a little of what passes for "fall" weather down here so it's easy enough to rationalize not having planted them in September so that's what I'll do: Rationalize, that is. The cowpeas (pinkeye purple hull) continue to bear heavily. all sounds wonderfully great, to be out in the gardens. other than picking dry beans here or there and a little odd weeding yesterday morning after burying the raccoon i've not gotten out in the gardens enough the past few weeks. i finally finished staining the house so i'm taking Saturday off. the weather being so nice i'll be outside doing something, but won't promise what or when. picked a few more pounds of pintos and other mixed beans yesterday in between rounds of staining. needed to give my neck and back a break from looking up. very therapeutic. must get out and get those peas picked now as there should be some ready. they're blooming like crazy now. everbearing strawberries still blooming too, not ready to quit yet. leaves are turning, the trees are getting nekid again. the white pines are shedding to get ready for the winter. songbird |
#12
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peas again
Derald wrote:
songbird wrote: all sounds wonderfully great, to be out in the gardens. other than picking dry beans here or there and a little odd weeding yesterday morning after burying the raccoon i've not gotten out in the gardens enough the past few weeks. Hey, if you spend much time "weeding", your stuff just might be too far apart! (-; no, just filling in the bare spot out back that will get overgrown by hollyhocks, sow thistle or grasses if i don't weed it. the strawberries are still filling it in and it needs a lot more mulch to reduce the weed sproutings. it is about 700sq ft -- i don't have that much mulch materials available. Must be the burying season: I've been trying to discourage a duo of juvenile opossums and discovered one of them dead under the front porch Tuesday AM. they do more damage to the bird population than raccoons do. they are always around here. i don't even try to discourage them as they are what i catch when i put out the live trap to get the raccoons. snip leaves are turning, the trees are getting nekid again. the white pines are shedding to get ready for the winter. That doesn't happen here. We have few deciduous trees and those aren't at all showey. They're still quite clothed and some are likely to remain so until late November or December, depending on when temps drop. A few of them shade the garden during the mornings but I'd rather live with that than without the trees. Noticed some radishes this morning that appear to have germinated a few days ago. Time to plant more. I don't eat the nasty little things but keep a few growing during the cool season for DW. the pine tree only drops some of the needles. all deciduous trees are to the N or NE along that edge and that is a good place for them the winds come out of the S or SW most of the time. if i were in the south i'm sure we'd want the shade trees too. a few hours less of sunlight here or there would not be a major loss. i'd probably live in a hobbit hole. our radishes grew in three stages and looked like snowmen when we finally pulled them out, about 8-10 inches long. no idea they'd get that big. great ground cover or cover crop with the big leaves. won't likely grow them again though. rather use the space for things we do eat. songbird |
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