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Old 10-09-2011, 09:02 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

In article
,
gunny wrote:

I leave the wacky to you, it seems to be your forte.
However, do show me anywhere that Parenti is a anything more than a
writer, his bona fides read like he is a book writer.
http://www.christianparenti.com/bio/
Perhaps you have some other information to contradict this that you
wish to share?

As for ³citations², here is a few to skim through since I know you
donıt ever read much of what you cherry pick for your BS propaganda.
If you still pretend you need some more I will be visiting the PLU
Library here in a few weeks and will get you some of those as well.
However you will need to get either academic or paid access to those.
Do note these are not the dot coms fringe political editorial
references you always posting , so again, be cautious in your cherry
picking to support your propaganda without actually reading, like you
did recently with Mann, etc. . That pattern shows a proclivity
towards lying to support your political activism agenda.

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstr.../57432/1/Brant thesis.pdf

Did you have a specific article in mind? The name Brant seems to come up
in relation to nursing homes??!
http://spot.colorado.edu/~carpenh/Magkos.pdf

A megastudy, you should know better, gunny.
http://www.ajcn.org/content/90/3/680.full.pdf

Supports Parenti's conclusions in his book, Tropic of Chaos.
http://water.columbia.edu/?id=Brazil&navid=Ceara

Pepsi is supplying weather models, and blah, blah, blah.
http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/1.../hysj.51.1.157

Goning sedimental on me, gunny?
http://iahs.info/hsj/495/hysj 49 05 0901.pdf

Not found.
http://www.wamis.org/agm/meetings/emndp11/S4-Brazil.pdf

Supports Parenti's conclusions in his book, Tropic of Chaos.
https://journals.uair.arizona.edu/in...ticle/.../1935

Not found.
https://www.cia.gov/library/publicat...k/geos/br.html

CIA Factbook? Did you find that all by yourself or did you have help?

What are you trying to prove? That you've been wrong all along?

What are you trying to prove with these superficial documents?

You are a wild and wacky guy, gunny.

--
"Fascism should more properly be called corporatism because it is the
merger of state and corporate power." - Benito Mussolini.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hYIC0eZYEtI
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b_vN0--mHug

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Old 11-09-2011, 02:40 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Gunner wrote:

I really do not have the time today to wrestle the pig, but I promise
I will address your points if there really are any bird. The first
time I read I did not see any but still. Meantime go read some of
the references I gave billy below as well as Milpa & swidden


Milpa and Swidden what?


Understand you are talking about monoculture. Don't know where native
plants came in.


specifically we were talking about how to
deal with arid land that is barren and lacking
much cover at all. that is land that is on the
verge of desertification. i mentioned setting
up rocks to start a reforestation effort and
then you said something about the three sisters
which are not involved in reforestation (they
can play a later role in a more sustainable
agricultural setup, but initially the idea is
to get some shade and trees to support wild
life). the rock line captures water even for a
moment and allows more of it to soak in and it
also captures seeds that blow on the wind.
native seeds. so there is no overt agriculture
going on to start with, just getting some shade
and trees that produce food/fruit and wood for
people to use (eventually).

notice that this natural and native setup
does not need any additional irrigation because
it is using native seeds and it needs no
subsidies because the seeds are there already.
the only thing it needs is people to line up
the rocks and then for them to keep the animals
from eating the new growth and for them to not
over harvest wood or burn the hedge/trees. once
you get one line going the shade and treeline
will act as a continual source of other seeds
for the surrounding area and it will harbor
plants and animals.

i'm not talking theory here, i'm talking what
has been tried and found to work for low cost
reforestation in arid regions.


Still subsidies are subsidies regardless of who they go to. Get the
people a real job instead of giving them water, seed and money to
continue to screwing up the fragile eco system of this arid regions.


i don't see how sustainable methods using
native plants is screwing up a fragile
ecosystem. it's restoring an ecosystem likely
damaged by war, fire, over grazing, monoculture
farms, irrigation, etc. and really, i'm not
talking about jobs here, i'm talking about
growing food to live as simply as possible.
jobs are things that people have who are not on
the brink of starvation because their land is
destroyed.


songbird
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Old 11-09-2011, 02:54 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

FarmI wrote:
songbird wrote:
FarmI wrote:
songbird wrote:

...
all very interesting. in other arid climates with
no severe drains/gullies you can line rocks across the
ground and they will act as a water catch when it
rains to slow down the water so that more soaks in.

Standard practice in permaculture and other forms of land management but
usually it's contour forming on farmland using a tractor/dozer and uses
earth. They're called swales.


ah, the usage i'm familiar with for those
is a sometimes marshy ground, not a particularly
made structure -- though i can see how the term
would be adapted/adopted for them too. the
made structures i would call dams.


Absolutley not a dam. They are just earthwork contour gutters (for want of
a better word to describe them).


*nods* yes, i know of what you speak, i was
just nattering about how the usage is different.


here i call places seeps are catches where i
gather water from a harder rain. i wouldn't call
them swales because they are not marshy.


But swales don't have to be marshy and in fact I don't think I've ever seen
one that could be called marshy.


likely a climate/country related shift in usage
(i'm assuming it's much drier there so there
may not be as much of the marshy aspect going on).
the usage of the word here is about an area that
is sometimes marshy. the erosion control or over
flow water control aspects are not even mentioned
in the definition (Middle English origin should
give you a better way of seeing how the usage has
shifted).


The function of swales is to slow down rain run off and let the water soak
in and recharge the soil with moisture. Thus swales work well in both arid
and dry temperate zones where the rainfall can come in fast and furious
bursts (like from passing storms) but where the rain is not sustainedfor a
long time. They probably also work in high rainfall areas to slow the flow
of water across a clandscape but where they arent' necesarrily needed to
give much needed soil moisture.


yes, i'm aware of the function of them, sorry
to have confused you to think i wasn't.


songbird
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Old 11-09-2011, 03:20 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 330
Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

On Sep 10, 1:02*pm, Billy wrote:

You think this is a nursing home link? really have you checked your
disability options on your computer? yours appear to be set wrong.

http://deepblue.lib.umich.edu/bitstr...ant_thesis.pdf

ASSESSING VULNERABILITY TO DROUGHT IN CEARÁ, NORTHEAST BRAZIL by
Simone Brant , A thesis submitted in partial fulfillment of the
requirements for the degree of Master of Science (Natural Resources
and Environment) University of Michigan, November 2007.

As for the CIA fact book, are you afraid of something? I used the
book for area studies long before I got into the business. Still if
you are afraid, you can go to some web encyclopedias and sift to get
the same basic info. It really is just a fact book. trust me I
worked for the government and I am here to help you.
  #20   Report Post  
Old 11-09-2011, 06:07 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

"Billy" wrote in message

As usual, gunny has lots of opinions, but no citations to back up his
wacky assertions.


Why bother reading him? I can't remember him ever having written anything
about gardening and if he ever did, it wasn't memorable so as far as I'm
concerned there is no point in reading him and seldom bother to read any
responses to him.

There are other forums where I read 'tall tales and true from the legendary
past' if I feel the need to do so but this place, for me, is about gardening
and chewing the fat with people who have a simialr interest. He never
seemed to have any interest in anything other than being an arrogant loud
mouth.




  #21   Report Post  
Old 11-09-2011, 06:13 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 2,358
Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

"songbird" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:
songbird wrote:
FarmI wrote:
songbird wrote:
...
all very interesting. in other arid climates with
no severe drains/gullies you can line rocks across the
ground and they will act as a water catch when it
rains to slow down the water so that more soaks in.

Standard practice in permaculture and other forms of land management
but
usually it's contour forming on farmland using a tractor/dozer and uses
earth. They're called swales.

ah, the usage i'm familiar with for those
is a sometimes marshy ground, not a particularly
made structure -- though i can see how the term
would be adapted/adopted for them too. the
made structures i would call dams.


Absolutley not a dam. They are just earthwork contour gutters (for want
of
a better word to describe them).


*nods* yes, i know of what you speak, i was
just nattering about how the usage is different.


???? Your dams are used differently or swales are used differently?


here i call places seeps are catches where i
gather water from a harder rain. i wouldn't call
them swales because they are not marshy.


But swales don't have to be marshy and in fact I don't think I've ever
seen
one that could be called marshy.


likely a climate/country related shift in usage
(i'm assuming it's much drier there so there
may not be as much of the marshy aspect going on).
the usage of the word here is about an area that
is sometimes marshy. the erosion control or over
flow water control aspects are not even mentioned
in the definition (Middle English origin should
give you a better way of seeing how the usage has
shifted).


The function of swales is to slow down rain run off and let the water
soak
in and recharge the soil with moisture. Thus swales work well in both
arid
and dry temperate zones where the rainfall can come in fast and furious
bursts (like from passing storms) but where the rain is not sustainedfor
a
long time. They probably also work in high rainfall areas to slow the
flow
of water across a clandscape but where they arent' necesarrily needed to
give much needed soil moisture.


yes, i'm aware of the function of them, sorry
to have confused you to think i wasn't.


:-)) Well now youv'e got me wondering about dams and swales and diffeirng
usage etc.

I'm off travelling for a few weeks so will be mute from today for a while.


  #22   Report Post  
Old 11-09-2011, 06:59 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

In article ,
"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote:

"Billy" wrote in message

As usual, gunny has lots of opinions, but no citations to back up his
wacky assertions.


Why bother reading him? I can't remember him ever having written anything
about gardening and if he ever did, it wasn't memorable so as far as I'm
concerned there is no point in reading him and seldom bother to read any
responses to him.

There are other forums where I read 'tall tales and true from the legendary
past' if I feel the need to do so but this place, for me, is about gardening
and chewing the fat with people who have a simialr interest. He never
seemed to have any interest in anything other than being an arrogant loud
mouth.


OK, kid, you're right again. In any event, this, gardens.edible, isn't
the place for it.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would have cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And itıs not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. Thatıs hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they donıt get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis
  #23   Report Post  
Old 11-09-2011, 07:06 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 2,438
Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

In article ,
"FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote:

"songbird" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:
songbird wrote:
FarmI wrote:
songbird wrote:
...
all very interesting. in other arid climates with
no severe drains/gullies you can line rocks across the
ground and they will act as a water catch when it
rains to slow down the water so that more soaks in.

Standard practice in permaculture and other forms of land management
but
usually it's contour forming on farmland using a tractor/dozer and uses
earth. They're called swales.

ah, the usage i'm familiar with for those
is a sometimes marshy ground, not a particularly
made structure -- though i can see how the term
would be adapted/adopted for them too. the
made structures i would call dams.

Absolutley not a dam. They are just earthwork contour gutters (for want
of
a better word to describe them).


*nods* yes, i know of what you speak, i was
just nattering about how the usage is different.


???? Your dams are used differently or swales are used differently?


here i call places seeps are catches where i
gather water from a harder rain. i wouldn't call
them swales because they are not marshy.

But swales don't have to be marshy and in fact I don't think I've ever
seen
one that could be called marshy.


likely a climate/country related shift in usage
(i'm assuming it's much drier there so there
may not be as much of the marshy aspect going on).
the usage of the word here is about an area that
is sometimes marshy. the erosion control or over
flow water control aspects are not even mentioned
in the definition (Middle English origin should
give you a better way of seeing how the usage has
shifted).


The function of swales is to slow down rain run off and let the water
soak
in and recharge the soil with moisture. Thus swales work well in both
arid
and dry temperate zones where the rainfall can come in fast and furious
bursts (like from passing storms) but where the rain is not sustainedfor
a
long time. They probably also work in high rainfall areas to slow the
flow
of water across a clandscape but where they arent' necesarrily needed to
give much needed soil moisture.


yes, i'm aware of the function of them, sorry
to have confused you to think i wasn't.


:-)) Well now youv'e got me wondering about dams and swales and diffeirng
usage etc.

I'm off travelling for a few weeks so will be mute from today for a while.


Bon voyage. Gute reise. Hasta luego.
--
- Billy
Both the House and Senate budget plan would have cut Social Security and Medicare, while cutting taxes on the wealthy.

Kucinich noted that none of the government programs targeted for
elimination or severe cutback in House Republican spending plans
"appeared on the GAO's list of government programs at high risk of
waste, fraud and abuse."
http://www.politifact.com/ohio/state...is-kucinich/re
p-dennis-kucinich-says-gop-budget-cuts-dont-targ/

[W]e have the situation with the deficit and the debt and spending and jobs. And itıs not that difficult to get out of it. The first thing you do is you get rid of corporate welfare. Thatıs hundreds of billions of dollars a year. The second is you tax corporations so that they donıt get away with no taxation.
- Ralph Nader
http://www.democracynow.org/2011/7/19/ralph_naders_solution_to_debt_crisis
  #24   Report Post  
Old 11-09-2011, 04:30 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Posts: 3,072
Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

FarmI wrote:
"songbird" wrote in message
...
FarmI wrote:
songbird wrote:
FarmI wrote:
songbird wrote:
...
all very interesting. in other arid climates with
no severe drains/gullies you can line rocks across the
ground and they will act as a water catch when it
rains to slow down the water so that more soaks in.

Standard practice in permaculture and other forms of land management
but
usually it's contour forming on farmland using a tractor/dozer and uses
earth. They're called swales.

ah, the usage i'm familiar with for those
is a sometimes marshy ground, not a particularly
made structure -- though i can see how the term
would be adapted/adopted for them too. the
made structures i would call dams.

Absolutley not a dam. They are just earthwork contour gutters (for want
of
a better word to describe them).


*nods* yes, i know of what you speak, i was
just nattering about how the usage is different.


???? Your dams are used differently or swales are used differently?


usage of the word "swales" to describe...


here i call places seeps are catches where i
gather water from a harder rain. i wouldn't call
them swales because they are not marshy.

But swales don't have to be marshy and in fact I don't think I've ever
seen
one that could be called marshy.


likely a climate/country related shift in usage
(i'm assuming it's much drier there so there
may not be as much of the marshy aspect going on).
the usage of the word here is about an area that
is sometimes marshy. the erosion control or over
flow water control aspects are not even mentioned
in the definition (Middle English origin should
give you a better way of seeing how the usage has
shifted).


The function of swales is to slow down rain run off and let the water
soak
in and recharge the soil with moisture. Thus swales work well in both
arid
and dry temperate zones where the rainfall can come in fast and furious
bursts (like from passing storms) but where the rain is not sustainedfor
a
long time. They probably also work in high rainfall areas to slow the
flow
of water across a clandscape but where they arent' necesarrily needed to
give much needed soil moisture.


yes, i'm aware of the function of them, sorry
to have confused you to think i wasn't.


:-)) Well now youv'e got me wondering about dams and swales and diffeirng
usage etc.


haha, i hope the above makes it clearer.


I'm off travelling for a few weeks so will be mute from today for a while.


safe journeys.


songbird
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Old 14-09-2011, 12:29 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

On Sep 10, 10:07*pm, "FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message
As usual, gunny has lots of opinions, but no citations to back up his
wacky assertions.


Why bother reading him? *I can't remember him ever having written anything
about gardening and if he ever did, it wasn't memorable so as far as I'm
concerned there is no point in reading him and seldom bother to read any
responses to him.

There are other forums where I read 'tall tales and true from the legendary
past' if I feel the need to do so but this place, for me, is about gardening
and chewing the fat with people who have a simialr interest. *He never
seemed to have any interest in anything other than being an arrogant loud
mouth.


Yes billy's tall tales BS does seem to be on a lot of NGs. He seems to
continuously keeps putting up this kind of crap along with his
infamous 12 line of political BS. Funny he was the one

So you giving up on sucker punching Americans, farmanal? I think
billy is enough of an apologist for us all, he really sucks up well,
doesn't he?

BTW, have you tried Hormone Replacement therapy yet? you and billy
both seem to be a good candidates. I'm sure his gynecologist could
help him.





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Old 14-09-2011, 12:36 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

On Sep 10, 6:40*pm, songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:



Dude, go back and read the article, specifically the part :

"The agroforestry crops are a mix of fruit trees, corn, cover crops,
and
climbing-vine crops"

not native crops!!!!!

That's twice you meandered around the topic so its either a ploy or
you're not following.

Either case, the land has too many people to support it, period. Time
for man to help man find new employment.
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Old 14-09-2011, 04:04 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

Gunner wrote:
songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:



Dude, go back and read the article, specifically the part :

"The agroforestry crops are a mix of fruit trees, corn, cover crops,
and
climbing-vine crops"

not native crops!!!!!


i have no idea what they are using and
if any of them are native or not (corn,
etc. could all be suitable native
strains).


That's twice you meandered around the topic so its either a ploy or
you're not following.


i'm not following, your critique of the
article implied you didn't want any subsidies
so i said there is another way of doing
reforestation and agriculture that does not
use subsidies and then i described what it was.
consider it a tangent or additional comment
to the article.


Either case, the land has too many people to support it, period. Time
for man to help man find new employment.


that is true globally, where will they
go?


songbird
  #28   Report Post  
Old 14-09-2011, 05:04 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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On Sep 13, 8:04*pm, songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:
songbird wrote:
Gunner wrote:


Dude, go back and read the article, specifically the part :


"The agroforestry crops are a mix of fruit trees, corn, cover crops,
and
climbing-vine crops"


not native crops!!!!!


* i have no idea what they are using and
if any of them are native or not (corn,
etc. could all be suitable native
strains).

That's twice you meandered around the topic so its either a ploy or
you're not following.


* i'm not following, your critique of the
article implied you didn't want any subsidies
so i said there is another way of doing
reforestation and agriculture that does not
use subsidies and then i described what it was.
consider it a tangent or additional comment
to the article.

Either case, the land has too many people to support it, period. *Time
for man to help man find new employment.


* that is true globally, where will they
go?

* songbird


Out of a desert that cannot support them!
  #29   Report Post  
Old 15-09-2011, 11:14 AM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

Hi All,

I recomend a brain transplant for Gunner a-s-a-p.

Richard M. Watkin.

"Gunner" wrote in message
...
On Sep 10, 10:07 pm, "FarmI" [email protected] be given wrote:
"Billy" wrote in message
As usual, gunny has lots of opinions, but no citations to back up his
wacky assertions.


Why bother reading him? I can't remember him ever having written anything
about gardening and if he ever did, it wasn't memorable so as far as I'm
concerned there is no point in reading him and seldom bother to read any
responses to him.

There are other forums where I read 'tall tales and true from the
legendary
past' if I feel the need to do so but this place, for me, is about
gardening
and chewing the fat with people who have a simialr interest. He never
seemed to have any interest in anything other than being an arrogant loud
mouth.


Yes billy's tall tales BS does seem to be on a lot of NGs. He seems to
continuously keeps putting up this kind of crap along with his
infamous 12 line of political BS. Funny he was the one

So you giving up on sucker punching Americans, farmanal? I think
billy is enough of an apologist for us all, he really sucks up well,
doesn't he?

BTW, have you tried Hormone Replacement therapy yet? you and billy
both seem to be a good candidates. I'm sure his gynecologist could
help him.




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Old 15-09-2011, 01:34 PM posted to rec.gardens.edible
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Default Organic Gardening in a Hotter, Drier World

On Sep 15, 3:14*am, "R M Watkin" wrote:
Hi All,

I recomend a brain transplant for Gunner a-s-a-p.

Richard M. Watkin.

Oh, its you... Dick!


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