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#76
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garden police gone wild?
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#77
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garden police gone wild?
The English (thank gawd) have a history of raising eccentricity to a high art. I got
a very healthy dose in my genetic background from my father. I can understand how the English wouldnt understand such stupidity. Ingrid ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
#78
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garden police gone wild?
wrote in message ... .. If these "laws" were so damn important, so damned necessary for the "general good" why not fund "fence police" to go around making sure everyone was in compliance? Why not publish these "very important new laws" so everyone DOES know about them. Because sure as hell having rules that no one knows about, that people routinely break or even ignore leads to complete contempt for law. Ingrid If I understand correctly from your message, your are talking about Brookfield, WI. If so, it took me about 15 seconds to find the entire municipal code for that city on line. I just put "Brookfield WI zoning" into Google. You can go to this address and get a complete zoning map, examples of the zoning ordinance, and a link to the full municipal code. When you pull up the municipal code you will see that Title 16 deals with subdivisions and Title 17 covers all other zoning matters. I am certain that the code would be available for your inspection at your city hall or courthouse and perhaps at the local library. As for compliance, all building departments have some type of inspection and enforcement division. Most departments have only a handful of people and therefore concentrate on inspections as part of the building permit process or they act on complaints made by the public. It isn't very common for building departments to look for infractions. http://www.ci.brookfield.wi.us/zoning.htm |
#79
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garden police gone wild?
which has nothing I could find on fences or the myriad of other "laws". I did find
the burning statute, was surprised they got it all spelled out what can and cant be planted. of course, all this is moot cause my mother doesnt have a computer. and it doesnt change the fact that my mother never moved into a "subdivision" with any HOA rules, the city passed those HOA rules and extended them to each and every house in the city. Ingrid "Vox Humana" wrote: If I understand correctly from your message, your are talking about Brookfield, WI. If so, it took me about 15 seconds to find the entire municipal code for that city on line. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
#81
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garden police gone wild?
"Jim Carter" wrote "This was their finest hour." Winston Churchill House of Commons, June18th 1940 Yes. Churchill was a giant. Funny thing is, the man spent two long years cajoling Franklin Roosevelt about getting involved in the war. Care to speculate on why? Jason |
#82
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garden police gone wild?
"Charlie" wrote:
I think it's pathetic that she's bothered about a trailer being left on a front driveway! It's illegal in many jurisdictions. Further, the deed to the man's house says "no trailers in the driveway." It's part of the contract he signed when he bought the house. I also think it's pathetic that there are people who make up stupid rules to say what colour you can or can't have your house painted, that you can't have more than a certian amount of cars on your driveway or that your grass can't be more than 2" long! It's ridiculous. It can certainly get that way. Some people desperately need a hobby. And yes, we had a "head start" over making laws, but at least our country actually has history more than 200 years old. So does the US. First colonists landed in 1584, making it rather over 400 years. The natives were of course here long before that. And don't bring the World Wars into it, this is niether the time or the place. At least we don't start them. Except for that one where your government sold out Czechoslovakia and Poland, you're right. Oh, and that Boer War, and the War of 1812 (heisting our ships and kidnapping our sailors will get you a war). Surely there are a few others I'm forgetting... Jason |
#83
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garden police gone wild?
On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 02:13:05 -0500, "Jason Quick" wrote in
rec.gardens.edible: Funny thing is, the man spent two long years cajoling Franklin Roosevelt about getting involved in the war. Care to speculate on why? There is no need to speculate, especially here. The reasons are given in most books about World War II. -- Gardening Zones Canada Zone 5a United States Zone 3a Near Ottawa, Ontario |
#84
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garden police gone wild?
On Thu, 5 Jun 2003 02:13:05 -0500, "Jason Quick"
wrote: } }"Jim Carter" wrote } } "This was their finest hour." } } Winston Churchill } House of Commons, June18th 1940 } }Yes. Churchill was a giant. } }Funny thing is, the man spent two long years cajoling Franklin Roosevelt }about getting involved in the war. Care to speculate on why? } }Jason } Everyone already knew that Hitler had some serious weapons. |
#86
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garden police gone wild?
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#87
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garden police gone wild?
What you say is not correct. There is no permit required for putting up a fence
along a lot line. When governments start writing ordinances that start banning activities like parking certain vehicles, dictating fence type and style, color of houses and kinds of swimming pools, it has nothing to do with ZONING and everything to do with the city becoming "BIG BROTHER" like an HOA. Zoning has to do with the uses to which land is put and laws concerning public safety. So they can specify that there MUST be a fence and how high around a swimming pool, but not what KIND of swimming pool or what KIND of fence... that is cosmetic and has nothing to do with health and safety. She didnt "have" an attorney UNTIL she was sued. Ingrid "Vox Humana" wrote: You also said that there was no permit required for a fence but this is not true. Governments have zoning regulations, not Home Owner's rules. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
#88
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garden police gone wild?
wrote in message ... What you say is not correct. There is no permit required for putting up a fence along a lot line. I guess you didn't see my earlier message so I will copy the information about fences below. City of Brookfield, Wisconsin Department of Community Development 2000 North Calhoun Road Brookfield, WI 53005 Phone (262) 796-6646 M-F (7:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m.) FAX (262) 796-6702 THIS IS A LIST OF THE MOST FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS AND ANSWERS REGARDING FENCES Q. Do I need a permit? A. Yes, except for a decorative fence more than 50% open and less than 3' in height. Q. How much will a building permit for a fence cost? A. $30.00. Q. Can I put up a fence around my entire yard? A. Yes, but only if it is a decorative fence more than 50% open and less than 3' in height such as a picket or split rail fence. Q. You mean I can't fence in my own yard for privacy if I want? A. Correct. You may not fence in your yard for privacy EXCEPT for a 20' maximum length, 6' maximum height privacy fence for a patio that must be located in the rear yard. Q. What if I want to put up a chain link fence? A. A chain link fence is permitted if it is used for one PET ENCLOSURE not in excess of 100 square feet in the rear yard and at least 10' from the lot line. Chain link fence is also allowed to enclose an ACTIVITY AREA FOR CHILDREN not more than 4' in height and not more than 500 square feet in area. Q. What about the fence at a swim pool or tennis court? A. Fences at swim pool or tennis courts are governed by the swim pool and tennis court ordinances. Q. How do I apply for a fence permit. A. Application forms are available at the Inspection Services Department Service desk. Bring two copies of a typical fence panel drawing and four copies of a survey (with the proposed fence sketched in to scale) of the lot along with you when you apply for the permit. Q. Must I have the lot line identified? A. Yes. The corners shall be located with intermediate stakes or a reference line from corner to corner. This line must remain in place during construction and final inspection. NOTE: The property owner is responsible for correct placement of structures upon a parcel of land to comply with the building and zoning law. The edge of the City street pavement or back of curb is usually NOT located on a property line. Good luck with your project! Remember we are here to serve and protect you, our residents. Our hours are Monday thru Friday 7:00 a.m. - 5:00 p.m. Inspectors are in from 7:00-8:00 a.m. and 2:30-3:30 p.m. Our telephone number is (262) 796-6646. Please call if we may be of further assistance. S:\inspection\Handouts\HANDOUTS\FENCE 1/11/01 |
#89
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garden police gone wild?
paghat wrote:
snip These communities began for racist reasons, as when the idea of Civil Rights for more than just white people got a strong if belated foothold in America, a few court cases settled certain issues & it became illegal to discriminate in housing. But a loophole was built into the law, & remains the Communities regulated by Home Owner Associations CAN define the age, religion, social status, & race of "appropriate" members permitted to buy houses within the housing enclave -- & no matter how agregiously prejudiced, In 1948, in Shelley v. Kraemer, the US Supreme Court ruled that racially restrictive covenants were unenforceable (rendering them meaningless). http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/script...ol=334&invol=1 It's weird that -- despite Shelly v. Kraemer -- courts still uphold the 'right' of homeowner associations to use the courts to enforce servitude restrictions that would be unconstitutional, were these private governments legally considered governments. it's perfectly legal, nothing those gawdamn queers & darkies or whoever's left out can do to stop it, neener neener. The government (e.g., the attorney general) will step in, in the case of illegal discrimination, in common ownership development housing. In fact, it's just about the only area the government will consider defending homeowners against rogue HOA ruling cliques that have run amok. The loophole makes it legal to keep grandparents from letting their kids or grandchildren move in when a housing community outlaws anyone under the age of 60; it keeps Jews out of Christian housing districts; I've never heard of a Christian housing district. Are you sure of your facts? it can even be "gated" with a guard at the front gate to protect middleclass whities from "crime" which is a code-word for "******s." People can get into these developments posed as joggers, and still rob people that have let their guard down -- BECAUSE of the gate and the guard. In the final analysis, it's unclear whether gated subdivisions are more secure. It makes it legal to be upfront & openly judgemental about why the mixed-race family is rejected from buying into the given community, & if they think they should have the right to sue over discrimination, tough. This was prior to Shelley v. Kraemer, although I will agree that this legacy of exclusion has had effects that persist to the present. http://www.lectlaw.com/files/case33.htm Nevertheless, the victims don't have to sue. There are government agencies that will handle the situation, like the state Fair Employment and Housing Commission. http://www.sacbee.com/content/news/s...-6841242c.html If this origin has changed slightly over time, & such enclaves are no longer fully dominated by the initial purpose to keep racism legal, it is only different insofar as there are now Chinese housing associations here in Washington, & lots of them in California wherein only middleclass Latin Americans are permitted to buy homes. It is true that HOAs proliferated when they had become *the* main vehicle to achieve racial discrimination in housing. Today, however, anyone that's prevented from buying housing on the basis of national origin, in California, can contact the Department of Fair Employment and Housing. http://www.dfeh.ca.gov/ So we're working toward equal opportunity appartied. So trying to force people not to paint their house pink or have a pink lawn flamingo or an American flag, http://newsobserver.com/nc24hour/ncn...-2401603c.html http://www.tcpalm.com/tcp/the_news_l...986333,00.html http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/loc...a-news-broward a UN flag, http://www.kxtv10.com/storyfull.asp?id=4521 a basketball hoop http://www.hometownannapolis.com/cgi...3/05_27-19/CCR over the garage door or redefining a hunter as inherently evil BECAUSE he's a hunter & therefore suitably harrassed by Neighbors United, up to & including anonymous reports to the police that he's a child molester -- all that is just the tip of an iceberg made of hate, among unsophisticated surburbanoids for whom "Property Values" is a scare-word disguising the real purpose, & is synonymous with "Intolerance." -paghat the ratgirl And to make matters worse, there's no evidence that homeowner associations protect property values. They're set up using that purpose as justification for creating them. In fact, there is evidence to the contrary. As more and more HOAs are created, and more and more people relate their experiences, people are getting wind that homebuyers pay for 'pretty' with oppression-by-adhesion-contract, and you can get 'pretty' without the oppression. The uniform "beige" town (city) of Cary, NC, establishes that local governments can be as persnickety as associations, and that associations are unnecessary. That's why "The term 'No HOA' is starting to crop up in real estate classified ads in the Phoenix area, where almost all new homes are built under an association's wing. 'For most people it is a real selling point,' says Rachel Linden, an agent with Coldwell Banker Success Realty. 'Homeowners associations can be a real pain in the butt.' " [Kiplinger Magazine, September, 2000] "[T]oo many developers are more concerned with the immediate marketing of a property and not long–term value potential." http://money.cnn.com/2002/03/15/pf/y...dcom/index.htm Moreover, as housing with no HOAs becomes more scarce, relative to housing with HOAs -- something that is clearly happening http://members.cox.net/concernedhomeowners/NmbrHOAs.htm the values of homes in jurisdictions governed by HOAs will decrease, relative to those of homes in jurisdictions not governed by HOAs. Not only don't HOAs protect property values now, they cannot protect their values from the "invisible hand" -- the inevitable effects of the free market forces of supply and demand. |
#90
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garden police gone wild?
exactly my point!!!!! there is NO PERMIT REQUIRED FOR A DECORATIVE FENCE. right.
thats what it was, less than 3' in height and 50% open and when the vines grew up it, decorative. what it says is a fence on the lot line (all around the yard) DOES NOT REQUIRE A PERMIT when it is less than 3 feet high and "open". What they say is "like a picket or split rail". They are not specifically saying it MUST be wood, but that is what they mean without explicitly stating so. A 3 foot rabbit fence is 90%+ open and has much less impact against brush than the wooden fence that is there now. In the open it would not look decorative. We didnt put it in the open, never had any intention of putting it in the open cause it wouldnt look good. In fact, we had no intention of every putting up a fence along the "lawn" part of the lot line cause she couldnt bitch about us cutting back her brush where there was none. But when they really INSISTED we were cutting onto HER property my mother felt if we didnt establish property rights they could claim adverse possession in the future. Her lawyer agreed. In fact, when they sued they CLAIMED adverse possession of the property right up to the asphalt drive based on their cutting the grass AND the previous neighbor cutting the grass. Was he ever ****ed when he got dragged into this. My mother had supplied him with most of the plants he used to construct this beautiful rock garden next to their house AND he had a little greenhouse and orchids and is responsible for my orchid addiction. They were very good neighbors. Ingrid "Vox Humana" wrote: Q. Do I need a permit? A. Yes, except for a decorative fence more than 50% open and less than 3' in height. Q. How much will a building permit for a fence cost? A. $30.00. Q. Can I put up a fence around my entire yard? A. Yes, but only if it is a decorative fence more than 50% open and less than 3' in height such as a picket or split rail fence. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List http://puregold.aquaria.net/ www.drsolo.com Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the endorsements or recommendations I make. |
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