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  #16   Report Post  
Old 20-06-2006, 04:55 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Ki-L
 
Posts: n/a
Default Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae

*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.

"Jolly Fisherman" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:08:06 -0500, Ki-L 1[email protected]1. wrote:

snip
but all the new plants either failed or are failing despite the Seachem
additives (micro-nutrients, Excel, iron etc) and extra light fixtures on
the
tanks.


Perhaps its too much light?


I can't possibly see how four 40w fluorescence can be too much light over a
standard 55g tank. The old faithfuls improved with more light and
nutrients.

snip

Well there is no way I can physically handle more vacuuming and partial
water changes.


I'm not suggesting that.

I've improved the lighting and all the supplements plus
bought the plecos and otos. I feel there isn't anything more I can do at
this time.


It still seems the plants aren't getting exactly what they need-
missing nutrients (despite best efforts), too much light, etc. Are
the plants showing particular deficiencies or calcification?


No calcification but the swords show signs of potassium deficiency. I add
extra potassium but it doesn't help, so something else must be missing. The
sags rotted away at their bases and the bases weren't covered in gravel.
The water wisteria, ludwigia, rotalia, and gygrophlia got paler and paler
until they all but faded away in the 55s. Meanwhile sharing the same two
55s these are thriving; American vals, anubias, a few crypts, elodia,
hornwart is making a comeback after a major dieoff last winter. The giant
hairgrass is all but gone in one 55 and just hanging on in the other.
They're partly covered in an ugly black algae.

I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization.
At least I've been reading conflicting things.


It's probably not but did perk up the plants, especially those that were
doing ok to start with. Or maybe it was the micronutrients that made them
a
darker green. The frustrating thing is I ordered more of these products
but
then the effects wore off. I added extra potassium but that had no effect
either. My sags are about dead and the Amazon swords look pretty shabby.


I believe the main ingredient of Excel is Polycycloglutaracetal an
isomeric form of glutaraldehyde, a very powerful disinfectant. Seachem
claims it is less reactive and more easily utilized by plants as a
carbon source. However one wonders if it has some algaecidal
properties. It is dangerous to aquatic life if overdosed. Frankly
I'm not excited about even handling water that has been treated with
Excel.


I'm not exceeding the recommended amount. I have been having very strange
die-offs of healthy goldfish as I've mentioned here several times. I
wonder........ healthy fish one minute and hours later dead on the bottom.
:-| I never made note of how many hours after adding these supplements
they died.

The iron in flourish is bound to gluconate, a carbohydrate. Seachem
claims this is an additional carbon source. It would seem it is also
accessible to bacteria and converted to sugars & CO2.
Basically these types of nutrients are beneficial to plants, but it's
easy to miss key nutrients or for them no not be as effective or
exactly as advertised IMHO.


Maybe I'll just start to add Miracle Grow or Peter's to the tanks as I do
the fishless pond plant tanks outside. Those plants are going crazy. It's
a heck of a lot cheaper as well. :-) I got a huge 5lb container of MG
Bloom Booster with micronutroents at a close-out sale for $2.99 a few weeks
ago.

Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for
certain plants?

I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and
re-do
them. This is the busiest time of the year here.


Take a look at:
http://www.plantguild.com/html/spot_fertilization.html
http://www.plantguild.com/html/subst...etrofiter.html


I'll definitely will check this out tonight. Thanks.

........ Then I bough
some new and different plants to experiment with for a change-of-scenery.
Shortly afterward the black sooty algae reared it's ugly head and from
there
it's history.


These were already cycled tanks (without plants). Perhaps biobugs are
out competing the plants as well.


No, I meant the 10g were cycled. After the 55s ran for a few days I added
the plants, then the fancy goldfish.

Expensive supplements, Excel, serious gravel vacuuming, water
changes and more water changes, more lighting..... Oddly the water
wisteria
is thriving in a 10g and has wasted away in the 55s. A small ASword is
doing ok in a 10g but the ones in the 55s will be gone soon I'm sure.


It might be damaged by such strong light with no real CO2.


It may be but only two 40 watt fluorescence over these 55s are pretty dim
and make diatoms grow - like the stuff in toilet tanks. :-( I have 2
compact 40s over each 10g and the some plants are doing better in them than
in the 55s.

Some that are failing are not covered in algae. Since I stopped feeding
the
plecs the algae tabs they did remove some of the wiry algae and this
evening
I noticed the plants are "cleaner" if that's the word that fits. After
all
is said and done I think I'll stick with the "tried and true" as you call
them. :-)


_how_ they are failing might give you useful information- if you still
care.


OK, they're edges have black algae that is not effected by Excel. Those
that had red tops or tips have lose their red color. Some rotted off at the
gravel line and or never rooted in at all. The swords show signs of
potassium deficiency. The sags are either rotting off at the bottom (crown)
and one is rotting away from the end of the leaves towards the center. Now,
while the above are near dead or obviously dying, the vals, crypts, anubias,
elodia, Java moss and hornwart are healthy and growing just fine. The
wisteria in the 10g with the platys is doing great. So I don't understand
what's going on here. It seems some of the plants are getting what they need
while the others are not. ?!?!?!?!!? As I said, I may experiment and add
some Miracle Grow to the 55s and see what happens. I don't believe it's
toxic to fish in small amounts. I often find fry in the plant prop' outdoor
tanks. Any suggestions are welcome.......
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{( ~~~~ }((((({*









  #17   Report Post  
Old 20-06-2006, 02:57 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Jolly Fisherman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae

On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:55:33 -0500, Ki-L 1[email protected]1. wrote:

*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.

"Jolly Fisherman" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 16 Jun 2006 21:08:06 -0500, Ki-L 1[email protected]1. wrote:

snip
but all the new plants either failed or are failing despite the Seachem
additives (micro-nutrients, Excel, iron etc) and extra light fixtures on
the
tanks.


Perhaps its too much light?


I can't possibly see how four 40w fluorescence can be too much light over a
standard 55g tank. The old faithfuls improved with more light and
nutrients.


I have a 55 gal tank with 2x65 watt compact fluorescent. It is far
too much for some of my more delicate low to mid light plants. I know
that sounds weird, as it's not really considered "a lot" of light.

snip

Well there is no way I can physically handle more vacuuming and partial
water changes.


I'm not suggesting that.

I've improved the lighting and all the supplements plus
bought the plecos and otos. I feel there isn't anything more I can do at
this time.


It still seems the plants aren't getting exactly what they need-
missing nutrients (despite best efforts), too much light, etc. Are
the plants showing particular deficiencies or calcification?


No calcification but the swords show signs of potassium deficiency. I add
extra potassium but it doesn't help, so something else must be missing.


to the gravel? Swords need to absorb a lot of their nutrients from
their roots.

Again to say something that might seem weird about light- I have
swords that are a cross between the E. schlueteri & E. barthii. They
were absolutely devastated by obvious light damage from my mere 2.36
watts/gal without CO2. They are slowly recovering under partial dwarf
lily shade. I may be wrong but I think this light level is probably
border line when certain species start to require extra care and
perhaps CO2. But it depends on the species. Most swords are medium
light species which puts you about on target.

The
sags rotted away at their bases and the bases weren't covered in gravel.
The water wisteria, ludwigia, rotalia, and gygrophlia got paler and paler
until they all but faded away in the 55s.


I assume you mean they got yellow & glassy & disintegrated. This
symptom, usually called iron chlorosis, can come from over or under
fertilization, potassium deficiency, high carbonate or total hardness
or pH over 7. Also look at Iron levels & perhaps Magnesium in the
supplements.

Meanwhile sharing the same two
55s these are thriving; American vals, anubias, a few crypts, elodia,
hornwart is making a comeback after a major dieoff last winter.


very hearty, easily adaptable plants

The giant
hairgrass is all but gone in one 55 and just hanging on in the other.
They're partly covered in an ugly black algae.


Giant hairgrass needs a very rich substrate & fertilization & probably
higher light.

I'm not 100% sure Flourish is truly equivalent to CO2 fertilization.
At least I've been reading conflicting things.


It's probably not but did perk up the plants, especially those that were
doing ok to start with. Or maybe it was the micronutrients that made them
a
darker green. The frustrating thing is I ordered more of these products
but
then the effects wore off. I added extra potassium but that had no effect
either. My sags are about dead and the Amazon swords look pretty shabby.


I believe the main ingredient of Excel is Polycycloglutaracetal an
isomeric form of glutaraldehyde, a very powerful disinfectant. Seachem
claims it is less reactive and more easily utilized by plants as a
carbon source. However one wonders if it has some algaecidal
properties. It is dangerous to aquatic life if overdosed. Frankly
I'm not excited about even handling water that has been treated with
Excel.


I'm not exceeding the recommended amount.


No no. I'm just voicing a little suspicion about a "carbon
fertilizer" derived from a disinfectant that is closely related to
formaldehyde.

I have been having very strange
die-offs of healthy goldfish as I've mentioned here several times. I
wonder........ healthy fish one minute and hours later dead on the bottom.
:-| I never made note of how many hours after adding these supplements
they died.


That IS suspicious. however I haven't heard of them being THAT toxic
before. I think normally you have to go above 5 or 6x the recommended
dosage to have problems.

The iron in flourish is bound to gluconate, a carbohydrate. Seachem
claims this is an additional carbon source. It would seem it is also
accessible to bacteria and converted to sugars & CO2.
Basically these types of nutrients are beneficial to plants, but it's
easy to miss key nutrients or for them no not be as effective or
exactly as advertised IMHO.


Maybe I'll just start to add Miracle Grow or Peter's to the tanks as I do
the fishless pond plant tanks outside. Those plants are going crazy. It's
a heck of a lot cheaper as well. :-) I got a huge 5lb container of MG
Bloom Booster with micronutroents at a close-out sale for $2.99 a few weeks
ago.


Stick some in the grave around the plants. Planting chelated iron
supplements like osmacote, Lilipons brand pond lily tablets, Security
brand iron plus chelate may help. It depends on your own knowledge
and calculations about what is safe around GF.

It's funny how fast the price jumps up as soon as the word "Aquarium"
gets involved. It's like the word "wedding." But I digress.

Maybe slower release substrate fertilization may be of help for
certain plants?

I just don't have the time and energy to tear these two 55s down and
re-do
them. This is the busiest time of the year here.


Take a look at:
http://www.plantguild.com/html/spot_fertilization.html
http://www.plantguild.com/html/subst...etrofiter.html


I'll definitely will check this out tonight. Thanks.


I think this type of thing is very important for swords esp. When
there's nothing for the plants in the gravel, they depend on
absorption for nutrient uptake which is less efficient. Swords don't
do that very well.

....... Then I bough
some new and different plants to experiment with for a change-of-scenery.
Shortly afterward the black sooty algae reared it's ugly head and from
there
it's history.


These were already cycled tanks (without plants). Perhaps biobugs are
out competing the plants as well.


No, I meant the 10g were cycled. After the 55s ran for a few days I added
the plants, then the fancy goldfish.


Expensive supplements, Excel, serious gravel vacuuming, water
changes and more water changes, more lighting..... Oddly the water
wisteria
is thriving in a 10g and has wasted away in the 55s. A small ASword is
doing ok in a 10g but the ones in the 55s will be gone soon I'm sure.


It might be damaged by such strong light with no real CO2.


It may be but only two 40 watt fluorescence over these 55s are pretty dim
and make diatoms grow - like the stuff in toilet tanks. :-(


I was thinking more like 3 instead of 4 (if possible) or maybe some
slight shading- else some plants are craving a little extra real CO2.

I have 2
compact 40s over each 10g and the some plants are doing better in them than
in the 55s.


That's very interesting. Not my (limited) expereince with 40x2 grow
lights over a 10g.

Some that are failing are not covered in algae. Since I stopped feeding
the
plecs the algae tabs they did remove some of the wiry algae and this
evening
I noticed the plants are "cleaner" if that's the word that fits. After
all
is said and done I think I'll stick with the "tried and true" as you call
them. :-)


_how_ they are failing might give you useful information- if you still
care.


OK, they're edges have black algae that is not effected by Excel. Those
that had red tops or tips have lose their red color. Some rotted off at the
gravel line and or never rooted in at all. The swords show signs of
potassium deficiency. The sags are either rotting off at the bottom (crown)
and one is rotting away from the end of the leaves towards the center. Now,
while the above are near dead or obviously dying, the vals, crypts, anubias,
elodia, Java moss and hornwart are healthy and growing just fine. The
wisteria in the 10g with the platys is doing great. So I don't understand
what's going on here. It seems some of the plants are getting what they need
while the others are not. ?!?!?!?!!? As I said, I may experiment and add
some Miracle Grow to the 55s and see what happens. I don't believe it's
toxic to fish in small amounts. I often find fry in the plant prop' outdoor
tanks. Any suggestions are welcome.......


Of course algae is often related to plant health. I think I agree
this is more of a nutrient problem than an algae problem at this
point. If you just have ordinary plain, unfertilized gravel this may
be the problem. Some plants are better able to absorb the nutrients
in the water than others. Maybe that's why some are getting what they
need from your dosings while others are still suffering. Cutting back
on fish food right now and planting solid fertilizers might be another
avenue to try/add.
  #18   Report Post  
Old 20-06-2006, 04:07 PM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Ki-L
 
Posts: n/a
Default Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae

*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.

"Jolly Fisherman" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 19 Jun 2006 22:55:33 -0500, Ki-L 1[email protected]1. wrote:
I can't possibly see how four 40w fluorescence can be too much light over
a
standard 55g tank. The old faithfuls improved with more light and
nutrients.


I have a 55 gal tank with 2x65 watt compact fluorescent. It is far
too much for some of my more delicate low to mid light plants. I know
that sounds weird, as it's not really considered "a lot" of light.


When I added the extra light and nutrients the low-light plants really
perked up and started to grow faster and they turned a darker green. Many
of the new plants were *not* low-light plants.

No calcification but the swords show signs of potassium deficiency. I add
extra potassium but it doesn't help, so something else must be missing.


to the gravel? Swords need to absorb a lot of their nutrients from
their roots.


That's not possible with granular Potash so I guess I'll have to let them
die. The small ones in the 10g are doing fine with it added to the water.
All the tanks have shallow gravel bottoms (around 1 1/4 to 1 1/2"). The
only difference is I don't vac the gravel in that 10 because of the baby
platys and Java moss on the bottom.

The
sags rotted away at their bases and the bases weren't covered in gravel.
The water wisteria, ludwigia, rotalia, and gygrophlia got paler and paler
until they all but faded away in the 55s.


I assume you mean they got yellow & glassy & disintegrated. This
symptom, usually called iron chlorosis, can come from over or under
fertilization, potassium deficiency, high carbonate or total hardness
or pH over 7. Also look at Iron levels & perhaps Magnesium in the
supplements.


The Swords started to look that way after some weeks passed, the sags even
sooner. The swords also have the Potash deficiency look, except the small
ones in the 10g platy tank. The high-light plants lost their color and all
are yellowing except my old favorites and the hair-grass being killed by
short black algae. Most high-light plants never rooted but rotted away at
the bottom and became water-borne. I have no test kits to measure all the
levels you mention. The cost here to take samples to a lab would be
prohibitive. And yes, the water is very alkaline. It varies with the
seasons from 7.5 to 8.+. The hardness goes off my test kit at 300
(calcium). I add a heaping tablespoon of Magnesium (Epsom Salts) with each
water change. I know our water is deficient in it.

Meanwhile sharing the same two
55s these are thriving; American vals, anubias, a few crypts, elodia,
hornwart is making a comeback after a major dieoff last winter.


very hearty, easily adaptable plants


They must be because I've had most of them for years. :-)

The giant
hairgrass is all but gone in one 55 and just hanging on in the other.
They're partly covered in an ugly black algae.


Giant hairgrass needs a very rich substrate & fertilization & probably
higher light.


A change now would be too late I'm sure as there is no way to get the black
crud algae off it. All that gravel vacuuming I did may have harmed the
plants by removing the mulm with elements they needed. That's only a guess.
It sure made little difference in the "black-red" algae problem in the long
run. All the vacuuming and added lights and nutrients did was slow it to a
near stop while the other plants temporarily took off. Now it's growing and
spreading slowly again, probably because so many of the new plants have
stopped competing as they fade away.

......... It is dangerous to aquatic life if overdosed. Frankly
I'm not excited about even handling water that has been treated with
Excel.


I'm not exceeding the recommended amount.


No no. I'm just voicing a little suspicion about a "carbon
fertilizer" derived from a disinfectant that is closely related to
formaldehyde.


For all I know it may be totally useless and it was the added light and
mirconutrients that slowed the black-red algae and gave all the plants a
temporary boost. It sure smells funny.

I have been having very strange
die-offs of healthy goldfish as I've mentioned here several times. I
wonder........ healthy fish one minute and hours later dead on the
bottom.
:-| I never made note of how many hours after adding these supplements
they died.


That IS suspicious. however I haven't heard of them being THAT toxic
before. I think normally you have to go above 5 or 6x the recommended
dosage to have problems.


I never did that, but these mysterious deaths have me bugged as none of the
outside fish are dying. All I add to the outside tanks (other than the
plant tanks) is Magnesium and Potash as there are plants in the fish tanks.
There are no symptoms except the goldfish starts to act lethargic, rests on
the bottom and dies - in hours!

Maybe I'll just start to add Miracle Grow or Peter's to the tanks as I do
the fishless pond plant tanks outside. Those plants are going crazy.
It's
a heck of a lot cheaper as well. :-) I got a huge 5lb container of MG
Bloom Booster with micronutroents at a close-out sale for $2.99 a few
weeks
ago.


Stick some in the grave around the plants. Planting chelated iron
supplements like osmacote, Lilipons brand pond lily tablets, Security
brand iron plus chelate may help. It depends on your own knowledge
and calculations about what is safe around GF.

It's funny how fast the price jumps up as soon as the word "Aquarium"
gets involved. It's like the word "wedding." But I digress.


I worked for a veterinarian at one time. The antibiotic capsule he sold the
farmers for 50 he sold the dog and cat owners for $2.50. Vaccines were
the same. It's a real rip-off as the pet owners are supplementing the
farmers. I'm sure the fertilizer industry is the same.

Take a look at:
http://www.plantguild.com/html/spot_fertilization.html
http://www.plantguild.com/html/subst...etrofiter.html


I'll definitely will check this out tonight. Thanks.


I think this type of thing is very important for swords esp. When
there's nothing for the plants in the gravel, they depend on
absorption for nutrient uptake which is less efficient. Swords don't
do that very well.


I think I still have some Lilipons tabs in the cabinet. I got them when a
shop was selling out all their pond stuff - for something like $1 a
container. ;-)

I was thinking more like 3 instead of 4 (if possible) or maybe some
slight shading- else some plants are craving a little extra real CO2.

I have 2
compact 40s over each 10g and the some plants are doing better in them
than
in the 55s.


That's very interesting. Not my (limited) expereince with 40x2 grow
lights over a 10g.


I don't use "grow lights" as they're expensive and I don't like the bluish
color. They're those new compact fluorescent lights for lamps.

_how_ they are failing might give you useful information- if you still
care.


OK, they're edges have black algae that is not effected by Excel. Those
that had red tops or tips have lose their red color. Some rotted off at
the
gravel line and or never rooted in at all. The swords show signs of
potassium deficiency. The sags are either rotting off at the bottom
(crown)
and one is rotting away from the end of the leaves towards the center.
Now,
while the above are near dead or obviously dying, the vals, crypts,
anubias,
elodia, Java moss and hornwart are healthy and growing just fine. The
wisteria in the 10g with the platys is doing great. So I don't understand
what's going on here. It seems some of the plants are getting what they
need
while the others are not. ?!?!?!?!!? As I said, I may experiment and add
some Miracle Grow to the 55s and see what happens. I don't believe it's
toxic to fish in small amounts. I often find fry in the plant prop'
outdoor
tanks. Any suggestions are welcome.......


Of course algae is often related to plant health. I think I agree
this is more of a nutrient problem than an algae problem at this
point. If you just have ordinary plain, unfertilized gravel this may
be the problem. Some plants are better able to absorb the nutrients
in the water than others. Maybe that's why some are getting what they
need from your dosings while others are still suffering. Cutting back
on fish food right now and planting solid fertilizers might be another
avenue to try/add.


Thanks, I'm going to look for those old Lilipon tabs....... :-)
--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the
pond and aquaria groups.
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{( ~~~~ }((((({*





  #19   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2006, 03:53 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Jolly Fisherman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae


The plantguild PMDD mix, for example, has the potassium, magnesium, &
trace elements that can be made into pellets for the substrate. They
might also have a recipe for make potash pellets. Although they'd
probably recommend you buy one of their binding or extending powders.
I'm impressed at how brilliantly simple and inexpensive to hand
manufacture the Spot Fertilizing & power reactors seem to be. I'm
just starting with the power reactor, which is very efficient. I
don't know yet how effective or a PITA the fertilizer tool is. All I
know is I didn't want to waste the time trying to copy them. Using
them seems like enough of a PITA.

I guess by now it's moot but I checked another of my books. It says
Black Brush Algae belongs to the red algae group. It is carried in by
plants from Southeast Asia. It thrives in nitrate rich, hard,
alkaline water and with CO2 deficiency. It mainly attacks unhealthy
plants. It claims it is so tenacious that neither suction nor removal
by hand is possible without damaging plants. It recommends
Fertilization with iron & CO2, filtration through peat (to soften the
water & lower pH), replacing old fluorescent tubes & introducing algae
eaters.

So I wonder if your multiple aquaclears and hard, alkaline water are
partially to blame, along with a nutrient deficiency of these new
plants. I know you have taken steps to improve water chemistry &
supplementation. I guess adding driftwood to also alter chemistry is
not sufficient or desirable. Frankly I think DIY yeast CO2 is a PITA
& I agree that CO2 cylinders is prohibitive. I'd pick the brains of
someone over at plantguild for kicks. Even if you don't buy anything
from them, at least you have those Lilipon tabs. :-)
  #20   Report Post  
Old 21-06-2006, 06:44 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Jolly Fisherman
 
Posts: n/a
Default Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae

On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 02:53:53 GMT, Jolly Fisherman
wrote:


I guess by now it's moot but I checked another of my books. It says
Black Brush Algae belongs to the red algae group. It is carried in by


It also suggests that while you should add liquid fertilizers after
every water change it should not be done at the same time as
precipitating water conditioners. Instead one should wait a day or
two before adding the dosing. (if that helps)


  #21   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2006, 12:25 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Richard Sexton
 
Posts: n/a
Default Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae

In my tanks Excel is the kiss of death on algae of any kind. It's the only
thing I know of that can be called a safe algicide and not can't be called
an algicide at all according to the US govt.

It's not as good as co2 but it's impressively better than without. Expensive
and worth twice that if you're serious.

--
Need Mercedes parts? http://parts.mbz.org
Richard Sexton | Mercedes stuff: http://mbz.org
1970 280SE, 72 280SE | Home pages: http://rs79.vrx.net
633CSi 250SE/C 300SD | http://aquaria.net http://killi.net
  #22   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2006, 04:09 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Koi-Lo
 
Posts: n/a
Default Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae

*Note: There are several *Koi-Lo's* on the pond and aquaria groups.

"Jolly Fisherman" wrote in message
...

I guess by now it's moot but I checked another of my books. It says
Black Brush Algae belongs to the red algae group. It is carried in by
plants from Southeast Asia. It thrives in nitrate rich, hard,
alkaline water and with CO2 deficiency. It mainly attacks unhealthy
plants. It claims it is so tenacious that neither suction nor removal
by hand is possible without damaging plants. It recommends
Fertilization with iron & CO2, filtration through peat (to soften the
water & lower pH), replacing old fluorescent tubes & introducing algae
eaters.


That about says it all except with all the water changes and gravel
vacuuming I was doing I don't think the water was overly rich in nitrates
and phosphates. The rest sure does apply. :-(

So I wonder if your multiple aquaclears and hard, alkaline water are
partially to blame, along with a nutrient deficiency of these new
plants. I know you have taken steps to improve water chemistry &
supplementation. I guess adding driftwood to also alter chemistry is
not sufficient or desirable.


I have a piece of driftwood in both 55s for the plecos. I talked it over
with my husband and decided to just stick with the plants that thrive under
our conditions and have for years. But you sure have been helpful
nonetheless. :-)

Frankly I think DIY yeast CO2 is a PITA
& I agree that CO2 cylinders is prohibitive. I'd pick the brains of
someone over at plantguild for kicks. Even if you don't buy anything
from them, at least you have those Lilipon tabs. :-)


--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{( ~~~~ }((((({*






  #23   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2006, 04:12 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Koi-Lo
 
Posts: n/a
Default Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae

*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.

"Jolly Fisherman" wrote in message
...
It also suggests that while you should add liquid fertilizers after
every water change it should not be done at the same time as
precipitating water conditioners. Instead one should wait a day or
two before adding the dosing. (if that helps)

=======================
I'm not sure I know what "at same time as precipitating water conditioners"
means. I usually add them within an hour of a water change, then the Excel
every day - occasionally I forget and skip a day.
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{( ~~~~ }((((({*


  #24   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2006, 04:15 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Koi-Lo
 
Posts: n/a
Default Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae

*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.

"Richard Sexton" wrote in message
...
In my tanks Excel is the kiss of death on algae of any kind. It's the only
thing I know of that can be called a safe algicide and not can't be called
an algicide at all according to the US govt.

It's not as good as co2 but it's impressively better than without.
Expensive
and worth twice that if you're serious.

=======================
Are you using it at the recommended rate or above? I'm using it as
recommended.
--
KL....
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{( ~~~~ }((((({*




  #25   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2006, 05:03 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
dc
 
Posts: n/a
Default Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae

"Koi-Lo" ?@...բ wrote in
:

I'm not sure I know what "at same time as precipitating water
conditioners" means. I usually add them within an hour of a water
change, then the Excel every day - occasionally I forget and skip a
day.


He means water conditioners that address things like heavy metals. I'm not
sure precipitate is the proper term to use as these metals are not actually
removed from the water solution as a solid but simply bonded to other
soluble chemicals into a non-toxic form. Some people believe these kinds
of water conditioners may remove trace elements beneficial to plants, which
they may.

I suspect even if they did the removal would not be complete when compared
to the amount you are adding to the water with fertilization. If there is
any waste your plants will still benefit from what is available during that
time rather than having to wait 48 hours for anything to be available if
you follow Jolly's recommendations.

I use Prime as a water conditioner; it is intended to be used in
conjunction with plant fertilizers. I don't know its specific effects on
the nutrients I add to my water, but my dosing schedule is complex so
whatever may be neutralized initially is quickly replenished anyway.



  #26   Report Post  
Old 22-06-2006, 06:15 AM posted to rec.aquaria.freshwater.plants,rec.aquaria.freshwater.misc
Koi-Lo
 
Posts: n/a
Default Black Brush and green algae problems - wire algae

*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.

"dc" wrote in message
.. .
"Koi-Lo" ?@...բ wrote in
:

I'm not sure I know what "at same time as precipitating water
conditioners" means. I usually add them within an hour of a water
change, then the Excel every day - occasionally I forget and skip a
day.


He means water conditioners that address things like heavy metals. I'm
not
sure precipitate is the proper term to use as these metals are not
actually
removed from the water solution as a solid but simply bonded to other
soluble chemicals into a non-toxic form. Some people believe these kinds
of water conditioners may remove trace elements beneficial to plants,
which
they may.


I only use plain Sodium Thiosulfate so no problem there. I buy the crystals
and make a gallon at a time.

I suspect even if they did the removal would not be complete when compared
to the amount you are adding to the water with fertilization. If there is
any waste your plants will still benefit from what is available during
that
time rather than having to wait 48 hours for anything to be available if
you follow Jolly's recommendations.


I'll keep adding it an hour or so after the water changes. It's kind of a
habit now and so I wont forget. It's the last thing I do after putting
everything away for another 10 days to 2 weeks.

I use Prime as a water conditioner; it is intended to be used in
conjunction with plant fertilizers. I don't know its specific effects on
the nutrients I add to my water, but my dosing schedule is complex so
whatever may be neutralized initially is quickly replenished anyway.


--
KL....
Frugal ponding since 1995.
Aquariums since 1952.
My Pond & Aquarium Pages:
http://tinyurl.com/9do58
*Note: There are two "Koi-Lo's" on the pond and aquaria groups.
~~~~ }((((* ~~~ }{{{{( ~~~~ }((((({*






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