These bulbs have their own ballast built in and I the wattage they
produce is alot higher than what they consume. For example, my 7 watt
bulb emits a candle power of 30-40watts (aprox).

Note that when talking wattage in the aquarium world, we're talking
fluorescent wattage. So your tank has 0.7 watts/gallon of light on it.

--
Victor M. Martinez | The University of Texas at Austin
| Department of Chemical Engineering
http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv | Austin, TX 78712
If we knew what we were doing it would not be called research, would it?

"Victor M. Martinez" wrote:

These bulbs have their own ballast built in and I the wattage they
produce is alot higher than what they consume. For example, my 7 watt
bulb emits a candle power of 30-40watts (aprox).

Note that when talking wattage in the aquarium world, we're talking
fluorescent wattage. So your tank has 0.7 watts/gallon of light on it.

--
Victor M. Martinez | The University of Texas at Austin
| Department of Chemical Engineering
http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv | Austin, TX 78712
If we knew what we were doing it would not be called research, would it?

Victor,

I have to disagree. 7 watts is the amount that the bulb consumes in energy,
what
it is set to dish out is equivalent to a 40 watt bulb. This bulb is as
bright as a 40 watt
incandescent bulb with the same spectrum as a fluorescent light. One of
these bulbs
gives me more light than 2 of those cheap lights they send with the tank.
Since I have
changed, my plants have grown 3 inches in less than 2 weeks.

Wattage (WATTS) is an energy consumpsion and not the amount of light it
emits.

Marc

I have to disagree. 7 watts is the amount that the bulb consumes in energy,

That's not my point. As I said, in AQUARIUM-speak, when people say "you need
2 watts/gallon to grow plants" what they mean is fluorescent watts.
You might not agree with the terminology, but that's the way things are.

--
Victor M. Martinez | The University of Texas at Austin
| Department of Chemical Engineering
http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv | Austin, TX 78712
If we knew what we were doing it would not be called research, would it?

more light. I understand they compare to incandescent lighting, my point is that
my 14 watt emits more light than a 14 watt fluorescent tube. Big time.

I doubt that. Would it be perhaps that it seems it emits more light simply
because it's in a more compact form?

--
Victor M. Martinez | The University of Texas at Austin
| Department of Chemical Engineering
http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv | Austin, TX 78712
If we knew what we were doing it would not be called research, would it?

On Mon, 2 Dec 2002 21:22:54 +0000 (UTC), (Victor
M. Martinez) wrote:

Chuck Gadd wrote:
On Mon, 2 Dec 2002 20:47:03 +0000 (UTC), (Victor
M. Martinez) wrote:

Just to avoid confusions, I did not write the next couple of lines.

Sorry, I bozo'd and quoted the wrong part of your message....

Can you tell I'm not feeling well this morning?

I meant to reference your comment that his screw-in bulb looked
brighter than the tube BECAUSE it's a more compact form....


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

"Chuck Gadd" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 12:01:00 -0500, Bigs
wrote:

produce is alot higher than what they consume. For example, my 7 watt
bulb emits a candle power of 30-40watts (aprox).

By the way, just so you know, I'm not fighting you on this issue just
as a way to embarrass you. The main reason is because if a beginner
does a search of the newsgroups and gets false info, they will be very
frustrated. Someone trying to use an "equivilent to 100w bulb"

Note that I don't argue with the fact that your plants are growing
well with just the 7 watts of fluorescent light. In a small 10g
tank, with easy low-light plants, it's not impossible.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua


I know, we are having a mature convcersation!

So basically. Let's talk technical..

LUMENS. All lights has a LUMEN output. If you look closely,
not every fluorencent that is 20 watts has the same lumens. I have
seen some that are quite different depending on the size of the tube.
Length and diameter.

Info on the web...
Miniature bipin base, 5/8" diameter13W,
21" long, rated average life 7500 hours, 720 lumens

Yet another 13 watt same size gave 850 lumens.

I just find it really really bright in there! So, you tell me
I should try 2 - 14 watt? He he he... I'll give it a shot.

I have seen well lit tank before. I just find mine really
well lit. I'll take a picture of both. That's if my digital
camera doesn't fail on me!

Ciao!

Marc

"Victor M. Martinez" wrote in message
...
more light. I understand they compare to incandescent lighting, my point
is that
my 14 watt emits more light than a 14 watt fluorescent tube. Big time.

I doubt that. Would it be perhaps that it seems it emits more light simply
because it's in a more compact form?


That could be very possible!

Chuck Gadd wrote:

On Mon, 02 Dec 2002 14:07:14 -0700, Chuck Gadd wrote:

frustrated. Someone trying to use an "equivilent to 100w bulb"

Dang, never completed the though...

Someone trying to use an "equivilent to 100w bulb" that is really only
a 25w fluorescent will get very frustrated when plants keep dying over
their 50g tank, even though they mistakenly believe they have 2 watts
per gallon.

Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

Alright, I've added both 14 watt compact fluo bulbs. It's pretty bright
but
I think the fish are getting used to it. I also had to rig a CPU fan to
attach on
my hood since they produce so much heat! So by adding Co2, the plants
will probably grow out of my tank!

Hey, my Gourami looks pretty damn good in all that light!

Marc

I agree with him. I have 2 15 watt strip lights on a 20H, and they dont produce nearly
the light that the 2 14W energy savers did, but the energy savers in the incandescet
hood tended to focus most of the light on the top front part of the glass, and this part
would turn green.....

Bigs wrote:

"Victor M. Martinez" wrote:

I get your point. What we have to clear up here is that it's not a strip (tube)
light like a fluorescent fixture. The bulb I have is an energy save bulb. It
takes 7 watts of power but emits light like a 30 watt fluorescent light. This is

I'm afraid you are incorrect. Energy savings bulbs *are* fluorescent bulbs
and the comparison wattage they list on the package is for incandescent
bulbs, which is what they are trying to replace.

--
Victor M. Martinez | The University of Texas at Austin
| Department of Chemical Engineering
http://www.che.utexas.edu/~martiv | Austin, TX 78712
If we knew what we were doing it would not be called research, would it?

Just to prove my point. I will take a pic of my setup and you decide what emits
more light. I understand they compare to incandescent lighting, my point is that
my 14 watt emits more light than a 14 watt fluorescent tube. Big time.
I have a 3' 25 watt in my office and it doesn't emit as much light as my 14 watt.

Theres also the fact that wattage is one thing, efficiancy with used wattage is
another. Seeing that fluorescent tubes have been around for decades, and energy
saver type bulbs maybe ten years, I would have to think that the energy saver
bulbs could be a good deal more efficient

Rich

Bigs wrote:

"Victor M. Martinez" wrote in message
...
more light. I understand they compare to incandescent lighting, my point
is that
my 14 watt emits more light than a 14 watt fluorescent tube. Big time.

I doubt that. Would it be perhaps that it seems it emits more light simply
because it's in a more compact form?

That could be very possible!

On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 09:13:03 -0500, Bigs
wrote:

Alright, I've added both 14 watt compact fluo bulbs. It's pretty bright
but
I think the fish are getting used to it. I also had to rig a CPU fan to
attach on
my hood since they produce so much heat! So by adding Co2, the plants
will probably grow out of my tank!

It's going to mean fast plant growth, which will need a good steady
supply of CO2, and you will need to work harder to maintain the
nutrient levels.

Please remember, I never said to use 2x14w over a 10g. While it's
only 28 watts (2.8 watts per gallon), in a small tank like a 10g that
would probably be considered "high" lighting.

You originally had 1 7w tube over it, so I would have stepped up to
2x7w first, and then watched the growth and plant performance.




Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

i have two java fern
and one amazon sword
what is wrong started yesterday some leaves have brown spots one it is it a
fertilizer shortage
and i have a white or small wurm in my tank pet owners says hamerless but
too the plants, also harmles?
thx
"Ed" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 1 Dec 2002 22:18:01 +0200, "Wynand" wrote:

what do i need except co2 yeast bottle
to plant plants in 10 gal tank plus how much plants
much i plant
thx



Is it just me? Over the years I have found that I don't need 4 watts
per gal, lots of CO2 or lots of nutrients.

I've gone that route 6 or 7 times now and all I got was HIGH
maintenance and very expensive tanks. I was either constantly
battling algea or nutrient levels and always pruning and picking out
lots of dying plants.

I have since reduced the watts per gallon to approx 2 watts/g and soon
realised that I was trying to overdrive my plants. That ain't
natural. Unless we're all in a competition for fastest growning
plants. After an initial "slow down" (due to the reduction in light)
my plants are back to normal and growing happily.

Currently I have a 10 gallon with an 18watt JBJ fixture, DYI CO2
injected into a Duetto DJ-50 and a 50/50 Flourite substrate and I have
been able to grow almost anything in there that I want to. I do tend
toward medium to lower light plants (for maintenance purposes). But I
do have some high light plants in there as well and they are doing
just fine. I also keep a very low fish load. Currently only one
Betta. But have had up to a dozen + Cardinals with a couple of
Cories and a dozen or so shrimp in there.

The water here in Los Angeles is pretty hard so I think that helps a
bit.

I add KNO3, KCL, TMG one/twice a week and Potassium Phosphate once
every 2 - 3 weeks.

Sure I ain't pruning my 10 every other day but I also have 5 other
planted tanks to mind. : )

Start with the lower wattage and work your way up PATIENTLY. I think
you'll avoid many a pitfall if you do.

YMMV

Ed

On Tue, 03 Dec 2002 13:28:22 -0500, Rich Conley
wrote:

Theres also the fact that wattage is one thing, efficiancy with used wattage is
another. Seeing that fluorescent tubes have been around for decades, and energy
saver type bulbs maybe ten years, I would have to think that the energy saver
bulbs could be a good deal more efficient


The energy saver bulbs have a ballast included inside them. When you
purchase ballasts for regular fluorescents, you can buy a low
efficiency ballast for about $10.00 or a high efficiency ballast for
$25-30. Do you think they would spend a lot of extra money making
more efficient ballasts for them? There is no cost benefit for them
to include a more efficient ballast. It's already 5-10 times more
efficient than the incandescent it's meant to replace.

And, as was mentioned, those energy-saver bulbs are twisted, so that
about 1/2 of the light produced is totally wasted, since the only
place it can go is straight into another part of the twisted tube.

They appear brighter because they are more compact, but they are not
any brighter than a regular fluorescent tube.


Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

I agree that he definately needs more light.... I don't know where people
keep coming up with these strange wattage values from but I have NEVER seen
a 10 gallon tank with anything but a 15 watt bulb over it (unless were
talking incandescent in which case you'd do better with a flashlight). But
I definately beg to differ with regard to changing the bulb. The penn plax
bulbs that come standard in fixtures these days have almost no light in the
red spectrum. They are all blue. And as you probably know plants need both
red and blue light. The chroma 50's which are 5 dollars at wal mart are
perfect and a cheap upgrade. and yes they do sell them in sizes that fit
all the fixtures. I used to buy vitalites for 20 bucks a pop thank god I
found those bulbs. I use them in all of my tanks with excellent results.
And actually I have a ten gallon with a single 15 watt chroma 50 in it,
florite substrate, pmdd and plants grow very well in it while when I had the
stock penn plax bulb in it I could barely grow java moss. Bottom line if
wattage matters and bulb temp doesn't try placing nothing but 10,000K
actinic bulbs over your tanks.

"Robert H" wrote in message
m...
"Ben" wrote in message
...
do yourself a favor and go to wal mart or home depot and buy yourself a
sunshine bulb (not the exact name) the packaging is bright orange and
the
bulb should say "chroma 50". That will be the bast improvement you can
make
for the money. without good lighting co2 is absolutely useless. Next,
and
a little more $ buy one bag of Seachem Flourite gravel ($15). I swear
by
this stuff.Be sure to rinse it well. Throw away your old gravel. If
you
can't find it order it online. For this $20 you will make life much
much
much easier for yourself. With this equpment you should be able to
grow
alot of different plants and if you do things right in a month you
should
have a mini forest. do some reading about aquascaping to help you
decide
which plants to buy. plant fairly heavy from the start but avoid this
mistake: when you buy your plants many types will be bunched together
seperate them and plant each plant seperately.
Ben


Well, he has a 20 watt single bulb strip. I dont think the chroma 50
comes that small, but even so, replacing one bulb with another bulb
won't make any difference at all. The color of the light may improve,
but it wont help the plants any. What he needs is more light,
preferably three 20 watt bulbs, but at the least two bulbs. Do this
and you will have intesive enough light.

Read some of the articles on my WEB site, it may help you,


Robert H
http://www.aquabotanic.com

Chuck Gadd wrote:


It's going to mean fast plant growth, which will need a good steady
supply of CO2, and you will need to work harder to maintain the
nutrient levels.

Please remember, I never said to use 2x14w over a 10g. While it's
only 28 watts (2.8 watts per gallon), in a small tank like a 10g that
would probably be considered "high" lighting.

You originally had 1 7w tube over it, so I would have stepped up to
2x7w first, and then watched the growth and plant performance.

Chuck Gadd
http://www.csd.net/~cgadd/aqua

I have to correct myself. I had changed my 7 watt compact for a 14 watt
compact. My 7 watt is in my 5Gal. My 10g is also heavily planted.

M