Sometimes the best rebuttal is a direct quote:
"Ann" wrote in message Not once did I call them
idiots. I said they were the front line in a
disaster, and they failed. And no, I didn't get my info from the
hysterical newscasters, the company I work for is based in Baton Rouge
- but do continue to misrepresent what I say, it's enjoyable to see
where you will twist.....

"Excuses, excuses. Why do you feel the need to cover up for incompetence?
From the bottom, from the top, they were incompetent on all fronts. Notice
the same isn't happening in Texas. As a matter of fact, it wouldn't happen
in any state that had a strong governor or in
any city that had a strong mayor. Leaders. "

Excuse me for interpreting you accusing them of "incompetence on all fronts"
as the same as calling them idiots....
It's sometimes dangerous to parse one's own words that carefully. If the
impression that is left with most readers is the same, the precise verbiage
is important to no one but a lawyer.
Obviously I must be a fool for saying that they took virtually the same
actions as the leaders you are applauding two weeks later. (Although the
leaders two weeks later actually GOT some of the help they requested in a
timely fashion.....apparently it helps somewhat down the road when the
president and the people he appoints to FEMA have gotten egg all over their
faces).

--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

On 9/26/05 12:51 AM, in article d7LZe.19446$Ix4.10116@okepread03, "B & J"
wrote:

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Hey there Gomerella,

I not only vote, I'm an election judge too. I am speaking from first hand
experience.

For many hours we often sit and wait with nothing to do because the
average number of registered voters who actually vote is only around
thirty percent on a good day, even less for the primaries and
non-presidential elections. By far the majority who DO vote are senior
citizens. Never seen teenages or "young adults" (18-21) vote.

What the Japanese and Europeans say is absolutely true: "Americans ARE
lazy and stoopid!!!"

Thats how we have gotten into this mess with having no competent
leadership. It was a long time in coming.

One problem with young people voting is that they are very ill-informed
about issues. Most of them are engaged in too many hormone driven activities
to concern themselves with politics and issues. I started voting when I was
twenty-one and have never failed to vote in over fifty years. Yes, I voted
Republican in the first couple of elections because that was the party of my
parents even though they were dirt-poor farmers. I was not an informed voter
at age twenty-one. I remember my father calling a neighbor a communist
because he was one of the early supporters of the Democratic-Farmer-Labor
groups in our area and wondering about his logic.

After I became a news junkie, I changed my politics because I quickly
learned that Republicans were the party of the rich and mega-rich
corporations, much as they may protest that label. Check out the percentage
of people whom the inheritance tax, which the bushies wish to repeal,
impacts. (BTW, I've too often heard that Republican mantra about rich people
and jobs to ever believe it, and dubya is a prime example of the useless
rich with inherited wealth. The country can't afford any more dubyas!)

I've now moved into a retirement area, and the seniors are no longer
lock-step Republicans. In smaller groups they are doing a lot of grumbling
about all his spending in Iraq with no plan about paying for it, and the
daily death count in Iraq isn't helping. His only ardent supporters are
those who are the born-agains, who want prayer and creative design in
schools, and the anti-abortion groups. It should be an interesting election
next year. You can bet I'll do my best to be around to reduce the number of
Republicans in the congress and the senate and help return the country to
normal politics.

JPS




Funny, I swung from mostly "liberal/Democrat" to Republican as I saw the
inside working of Mass. Dems. They may say they are on the little guys side,
but you sure as hell better not expect them to mean it.

And I don't consider myself "rich" but having settled several estates now, I
think the estate taxes, both federal and the state, to be grossly unfair to
any "middle class" estate. First, taxes have been paid on that
income/house/stock/bond already, and will be paid again by the legatee. To
whack 30% or more just for dying is plain wrong. A more sensible approach
would be to end more the ways to avoid taxes - tax free funds for example.


And I think it is time for the average Republican to take back our party.

Cheryl

Cereus-validus....... wrote:
Hey there Gomerella,

I not only vote, I'm an election judge too. I am speaking from first hand
experience.

For many hours we often sit and wait with nothing to do because the average
number of registered voters who actually vote is only around thirty percent
on a good day, even less for the primaries and non-presidential elections.
By far the majority who DO vote are senior citizens. Never seen teenages or
"young adults" (18-21) vote.

What the Japanese and Europeans say is absolutely true: "Americans ARE lazy
and stoopid!!!"

Thats how we have gotten into this mess with having no competent leadership.
It was a long time in coming.

I don't know where you are a poll worker, but national statistics from
the census bureau reported 60 percent of eligible voters voted in 1996;
58 percent in 2000. They didn't yet have 2004 figures but I seem to
recall from the news coverage (that may not be credible) that it was
slightly higher than in prior years.

Of course, one must also consider that only about 70 percent of us
bother to register, and that probably includes a sizeable stable of the
deceased who show up on election day.


"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
om...

Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch.



Like it or not, we are all stuck with this doofus as president even if he
doesn't measure up as your personal savior.

I don't look to the president to be a personal savior. I think that's the
problem with the person I responded to and many republicans. They think
Bush is their personal savior and this thing is a game for them to win. It



"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...


"Ann" wrote in message
m...

"Belzon Bioya" expounded:


Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going
smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that makes
your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?

You got upset when someone criticized him.

I didn't vote for him. He's an embarassment and I don't consider him my
president.

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article , "Belzon Bioya"
wrote:

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch.

That's nonsense.

No, it's principles.

If the only choices are dangerous morons, criticizing is
essential, whereas voting won't magically make the candidates credible or
worthwhile.

There are always other candidates on the ballot of some type. You can also
write in who you want. Or you can lobby to get a "none of the above option"
on the ballot as some states have.


And when you invent rules by which free speech no longer applies, that
doesn't bode well for preserving it. To suggest people can't bitch if they
don't vote would be the equivalent of my suggesting you can't bitch unless
you participate in the revolution which our founding fathers declared to
be our DUTY "to throw off such Government" when it afflicts unalienable
rights & liberties. Voting to do away with other peoples' rights is no
better than permitting despotism to do the same, much as, come the
revolution, it will be meaningless if afterward you get no rights for
having failed to stand out front with your duty.

I'm curious about something. Are you crazy?

I mean, I suggested none of what you are saying I did. You've gone way
beyond reasonable debate by putting words in my mouth wrt free speech.

"If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch." Is just a way of saying that people should be involved in the
process and not just complain about the government all the time.

Only a thick headed dimwit with an agenda to push would think I was
suggesting taking away anybody's right to speech.

Now calm down, switch to decaffienated, and stop making excuses on why you
didn't vote.

It's the apathetic that are the problem with this country, not the
candidates you didn't like.

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Hey there Gomerella,

Hey there, Putz.


I not only vote, I'm an election judge too. I am speaking from first hand
experience.

For many hours we often sit and wait with nothing to do because the
average number of registered voters who actually vote is only around
thirty percent on a good day, even less for the primaries and
non-presidential elections. By far the majority who DO vote are senior
citizens. Never seen teenages or "young adults" (18-21) vote.

What the Japanese and Europeans say is absolutely true: "Americans ARE
lazy and stoopid!!!"

Thats how we have gotten into this mess with having no competent
leadership. It was a long time in coming.

Is there anything of relevance to my post you have to relate, or are you
just rambling on for comfort?




"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch.



Like it or not, we are all stuck with this doofus as president even if
he doesn't measure up as your personal savior.

I don't look to the president to be a personal savior. I think that's the
problem with the person I responded to and many republicans. They think
Bush is their personal savior and this thing is a game for them to win.
It



"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...


"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Belzon Bioya" expounded:

Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going
smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that makes
your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?

You got upset when someone criticized him.

I didn't vote for him. He's an embarassment and I don't consider him my
president.

Those figures were for the presidential elections only, Charlie Brown, and
even those have gone down considerably since a decade ago.


"William Brown" wrote in message
news:fAVZe.6607$GK2.3355@lakeread07...
Cereus-validus....... wrote:
Hey there Gomerella,

I not only vote, I'm an election judge too. I am speaking from first hand
experience.

For many hours we often sit and wait with nothing to do because the
average number of registered voters who actually vote is only around
thirty percent on a good day, even less for the primaries and
non-presidential elections. By far the majority who DO vote are senior
citizens. Never seen teenages or "young adults" (18-21) vote.

What the Japanese and Europeans say is absolutely true: "Americans ARE
lazy and stoopid!!!"

Thats how we have gotten into this mess with having no competent
leadership. It was a long time in coming.

I don't know where you are a poll worker, but national statistics from the
census bureau reported 60 percent of eligible voters voted in 1996; 58
percent in 2000. They didn't yet have 2004 figures but I seem to recall
from the news coverage (that may not be credible) that it was slightly
higher than in prior years.

Of course, one must also consider that only about 70 percent of us bother
to register, and that probably includes a sizeable stable of the deceased
who show up on election day.


"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
. com...

Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch.



Like it or not, we are all stuck with this doofus as president even if
he doesn't measure up as your personal savior.

I don't look to the president to be a personal savior. I think that's the
problem with the person I responded to and many republicans. They think
Bush is their personal savior and this thing is a game for them to win.
It



"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...


"Ann" wrote in message
om...

"Belzon Bioya" expounded:


Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going
smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that makes
your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?

You got upset when someone criticized him.

I didn't vote for him. He's an embarassment and I don't consider him my
president.

Why don't a thick headed dimwit like you just go back to outer Gooberstan if
you hate the USA so much? Or is it that your sleeper cell is waiting for
instructions from Osama before you do anything?


"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article , "Belzon Bioya"
wrote:

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch.

That's nonsense.

No, it's principles.

If the only choices are dangerous morons, criticizing is
essential, whereas voting won't magically make the candidates credible or
worthwhile.

There are always other candidates on the ballot of some type. You can also
write in who you want. Or you can lobby to get a "none of the above
option" on the ballot as some states have.


And when you invent rules by which free speech no longer applies, that
doesn't bode well for preserving it. To suggest people can't bitch if
they
don't vote would be the equivalent of my suggesting you can't bitch
unless
you participate in the revolution which our founding fathers declared to
be our DUTY "to throw off such Government" when it afflicts unalienable
rights & liberties. Voting to do away with other peoples' rights is no
better than permitting despotism to do the same, much as, come the
revolution, it will be meaningless if afterward you get no rights for
having failed to stand out front with your duty.

I'm curious about something. Are you crazy?

I mean, I suggested none of what you are saying I did. You've gone way
beyond reasonable debate by putting words in my mouth wrt free speech.

"If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch." Is just a way of saying that people should be involved in
the process and not just complain about the government all the time.

Only a thick headed dimwit with an agenda to push would think I was
suggesting taking away anybody's right to speech.

Now calm down, switch to decaffienated, and stop making excuses on why you
didn't vote.

It's the apathetic that are the problem with this country, not the
candidates you didn't like.

Why don't a thick headed dimwit like you just go back to outer Gooberstan if
you hate the USA so much?

Or is it that your sleeper cell is waiting for instructions from Osama
before you do anything?


"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Hey there Gomerella,

Hey there, Putz.


I not only vote, I'm an election judge too. I am speaking from first hand
experience.

For many hours we often sit and wait with nothing to do because the
average number of registered voters who actually vote is only around
thirty percent on a good day, even less for the primaries and
non-presidential elections. By far the majority who DO vote are senior
citizens. Never seen teenages or "young adults" (18-21) vote.

What the Japanese and Europeans say is absolutely true: "Americans ARE
lazy and stoopid!!!"

Thats how we have gotten into this mess with having no competent
leadership. It was a long time in coming.

Is there anything of relevance to my post you have to relate, or are you
just rambling on for comfort?




"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch.



Like it or not, we are all stuck with this doofus as president even if
he doesn't measure up as your personal savior.

I don't look to the president to be a personal savior. I think that's
the problem with the person I responded to and many republicans. They
think Bush is their personal savior and this thing is a game for them to
win. It



"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...


"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Belzon Bioya" expounded:

Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going
smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that makes
your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?

You got upset when someone criticized him.

I didn't vote for him. He's an embarassment and I don't consider him
my president.

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
.. .
Why don't a thick headed dimwit like you just go back to outer Gooberstan
if you hate the USA so much? Or is it that your sleeper cell is waiting
for instructions from Osama before you do anything?

You should find some meaning to your life and quit counting on insulting
people on the net anonymously to put some starch in your pecker.

Cheryl Isaak expounded:

Funny, I swung from mostly "liberal/Democrat" to Republican as I saw the
inside working of Mass. Dems. They may say they are on the little guys side,
but you sure as hell better not expect them to mean it.

Cheryl, my Mainiac husband thought I was wrong about liberal
Democrats, because he didn't understand the real meaning of the term
until he moved down here to Massachusetts. They're the rich ones in
this state - and they cost us all a fortune.

And I don't consider myself "rich" but having settled several estates now, I
think the estate taxes, both federal and the state, to be grossly unfair to
any "middle class" estate. First, taxes have been paid on that
income/house/stock/bond already, and will be paid again by the legatee. To
whack 30% or more just for dying is plain wrong. A more sensible approach
would be to end more the ways to avoid taxes - tax free funds for example.

I get a kick out of people saying Republicans are rich. Ya. No rich
Democrats. Hmmm......I guess no one told Kennedy that. Or Kerry. Or
oh so many others. Kennedy had a neat way of avoiding estate taxes,
his mother, Rose, was a Florida resident. Uh-huh. Right. His family
definitely paid their fair share of inheritance taxes.

And I think it is time for the average Republican to take back our party.

There is no Republican party to take back in Massachusetts, they've
given up. And the Democratic party doesn't resemble what it is in
other parts of the country.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

Hi Ann, had to drop in as you know I lived there most of my life till I
moved here to Fl, I just read what you had to say and just can't laughing,
you are so right girl
"Ann" wrote in message
...
Cheryl Isaak expounded:

Funny, I swung from mostly "liberal/Democrat" to Republican as I saw the
inside working of Mass. Dems. They may say they are on the little guys
side,
but you sure as hell better not expect them to mean it.

Cheryl, my Mainiac husband thought I was wrong about liberal
Democrats, because he didn't understand the real meaning of the term
until he moved down here to Massachusetts. They're the rich ones in
this state - and they cost us all a fortune.

And I don't consider myself "rich" but having settled several estates now,
I
think the estate taxes, both federal and the state, to be grossly unfair
to
any "middle class" estate. First, taxes have been paid on that
income/house/stock/bond already, and will be paid again by the legatee. To
whack 30% or more just for dying is plain wrong. A more sensible approach
would be to end more the ways to avoid taxes - tax free funds for example.

I get a kick out of people saying Republicans are rich. Ya. No rich
Democrats. Hmmm......I guess no one told Kennedy that. Or Kerry. Or
oh so many others. Kennedy had a neat way of avoiding estate taxes,
his mother, Rose, was a Florida resident. Uh-huh. Right. His family
definitely paid their fair share of inheritance taxes.

And I think it is time for the average Republican to take back our party.

There is no Republican party to take back in Massachusetts, they've
given up. And the Democratic party doesn't resemble what it is in
other parts of the country.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
snip
Funny, I swung from mostly "liberal/Democrat" to Republican as I saw the
inside working of Mass. Dems. They may say they are on the little guys
side,
but you sure as hell better not expect them to mean it.

And I don't consider myself "rich" but having settled several estates now,
I
think the estate taxes, both federal and the state, to be grossly unfair
to
any "middle class" estate. First, taxes have been paid on that
income/house/stock/bond already, and will be paid again by the legatee. To
whack 30% or more just for dying is plain wrong. A more sensible approach
would be to end more the ways to avoid taxes - tax free funds for example.

And I think it is time for the average Republican to take back our party.

Cheryl

BYW, Cheryl, what wealth bracket do you consider middle class?

It doesn't make sense to me that the wealthy amass more wealth in families
by unrestricted inheritance. You speak of the wealth in the Democratic
Party, but it's an unfortunate fact of life that money buys elections and
only the wealthy run for political office or are owned by wealthy interests.
Check on how much it cost Michael Bloomberg per vote to buy the mayorship of
New York City. Only the super-wealthy can afford to run for public office.

There is no question in my mind that the wealthy "own" the Republican Party
and manipulate the rest of their constituents with hot button issues. I know
few "average" Republicans. Most of them are doing very well financially or
are at the very least comfortable.

As far as I'm concerned, the inheritance tax helps keep wealth from being
concentrated in a few families. I could care less if any of my relatives
gets a dime from my estate when I die. Both my wife and I have set up
scholarships as part of our will, and anything that's left goes to
relatives. They all have the same option I had of working, saving, and
investing that I had. I don't think inheriting wealth is a necessity for a
fruitful life. In fact, that is how the dubyas in this world happen. He
hasn't the foggiest idea about the problems that beset "normal" people,
while he does know and react to the problems of the wealthy.

JPS

Bite me, you troll wannabe.


"You Said Now" wrote in message
...


"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
.. .
Why don't a thick headed dimwit like you just go back to outer Gooberstan
if you hate the USA so much? Or is it that your sleeper cell is waiting
for instructions from Osama before you do anything?

You should find some meaning to your life and quit counting on insulting
people on the net anonymously to put some starch in your pecker.

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
. ..
Bite me, you troll wannabe.

Congratulations. You have been marginalized as a political ****tard. And on
a garden group.

I'm sure the election officials will be interested in what you had to say.
With any luck, you have counted your last vote.

Oh how good it feels to not be a right wing conservative asshole.

Cheers, ****tard.

Enjoy, asshole.

Its time to have your meds changed, Mr. Hinckley!!!

Is this your way of impressing Jodie Foster?

Which election officials are those, you dimwitted muthafarkel?


"You Said Now" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
. ..
Bite me, you troll wannabe.

Congratulations. You have been marginalized as a political ****tard. And
on a garden group.

I'm sure the election officials will be interested in what you had to say.
With any luck, you have counted your last vote.

Oh how good it feels to not be a right wing conservative asshole.

Cheers, ****tard.

Enjoy, asshole.