"presley" expounded:

Just to clarify the record, I didn't call YOU ignorant. I try to avoid ad
hominem attacks. I called your statement ignorant. Which it undeniably was.
(You said, and I'm paraphrasing, "Look at Texas, it's not having any of the
sort of problems Louisiana had"). To wit: today, an overheated bus caught
on fire after being stranded in traffic for 12 hours and killed most of the
elderly on board. And yes, I hope you have a nice day as well.

It's not. *You* watch too much news. We have several offices in
Houston and the surrounding area, I've talked with some of my
coworkers down there. People on the highways are gridlocked. People
who went on the secondary roads got where they wanted to go. Lots of
them. One of my friends got her mother out of a nursing home and
moved her inland. Really. My statement was not ignorant. I just
don't get all of my information from hysterical newscasters.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"Belzon Bioya" expounded:

Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that makes your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"Ann" wrote in message
It's not. *You* watch too much news. We have several offices in
Houston and the surrounding area, I've talked with some of my
coworkers down there. People on the highways are gridlocked. People
who went on the secondary roads got where they wanted to go. Lots of
them. One of my friends got her mother out of a nursing home and
moved her inland. Really. My statement was not ignorant. I just
don't get all of my information from hysterical newscasters.

Well, apparently you did get ALL your information from hysterical
newscasters regarding New Orleans, which successfully evacuated 80% of
residents in less than 24 hours - something that exceeded EVERY projection,
the most optimistic of which said that only 60% could be evacuated in that
period of time.
"Reality #1: A very high percentage of the population of New Orleans and
surrounding low lying areas were successfully evacuated before the hurricane
hit. An article in 2002 in the New Orleans Times-Picayune explored the
hurricane-induced flooding scenario and estimated that 200,000 residents of
the city would be stranded by such an event. A Houston Chronicle article
from 2001 estimated that 250,000 residents would be stranded. That is over
40% of the population of the city, which stood at 484,000 in 2000. A recent
poll of New Orleans residents revealed that an even higher percentage, 60%,
would remain in the city even if ordered to evacuate with a major storm on
the way. The Mayor New Orleans, Ray Nagin, estimated that at least 80% of
his city's residents were out before the hurricane hit Monday. In
retrospect, this must be considered a major positive achievement. How did
it happen?"

But THAT story doesn't support your theory, which is that the mayor, the
governor, and the people of Louisiana are total idiots and to blame for
everything bad that happened there. Maybe, just maybe, they are no better
and no worse than people elsewhere, including Texas. (And, incidentally,
there are no "secondary" roads out of New Orleans, so they had to make do
with essentially 4 or 5 evacuation routes).
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Belzon Bioya" expounded:

Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going
smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that makes your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?

You got upset when someone criticized him.

I didn't vote for him. He's an embarassment and I don't consider him my
president.

Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

Like it or not, we are all stuck with this doofus as president even if he
doesn't measure up as your personal savior.


"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...


"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Belzon Bioya" expounded:

Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going
smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that makes
your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?

You got upset when someone criticized him.

I didn't vote for him. He's an embarassment and I don't consider him my
president.

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch.



Like it or not, we are all stuck with this doofus as president even if he
doesn't measure up as your personal savior.

I don't look to the president to be a personal savior. I think that's the
problem with the person I responded to and many republicans. They think Bush
is their personal savior and this thing is a game for them to win. It



"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...


"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Belzon Bioya" expounded:

Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going
smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that makes
your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?

You got upset when someone criticized him.

I didn't vote for him. He's an embarassment and I don't consider him my
president.

In article , "Belzon Bioya"
wrote:

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch.

That's nonsense. If the only choices are dangerous morons, criticizing is
essential, whereas voting won't magically make the candidates credible or
worthwhile.

And when you invent rules by which free speech no longer applies, that
doesn't bode well for preserving it. To suggest people can't bitch if they
don't vote would be the equivalent of my suggesting you can't bitch unless
you participate in the revolution which our founding fathers declared to
be our DUTY "to throw off such Government" when it afflicts unalienable
rights & liberties. Voting to do away with other peoples' rights is no
better than permitting despotism to do the same, much as, come the
revolution, it will be meaningless if afterward you get no rights for
having failed to stand out front with your duty.

-paghat the ratgirl
--
Get your Paghat the Ratgirl T-Shirt he
http://www.paghat.com/giftshop.html
"In every country and in every age, the priest has been hostile to
liberty. He is always in alliance with the despot." -Thomas Jefferson

Hey there Gomerella,

I not only vote, I'm an election judge too. I am speaking from first hand
experience.

For many hours we often sit and wait with nothing to do because the average
number of registered voters who actually vote is only around thirty percent
on a good day, even less for the primaries and non-presidential elections.
By far the majority who DO vote are senior citizens. Never seen teenages or
"young adults" (18-21) vote.

What the Japanese and Europeans say is absolutely true: "Americans ARE lazy
and stoopid!!!"

Thats how we have gotten into this mess with having no competent leadership.
It was a long time in coming.


"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch.



Like it or not, we are all stuck with this doofus as president even if he
doesn't measure up as your personal savior.

I don't look to the president to be a personal savior. I think that's the
problem with the person I responded to and many republicans. They think
Bush is their personal savior and this thing is a game for them to win. It



"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...


"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Belzon Bioya" expounded:

Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going
smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that makes
your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?

You got upset when someone criticized him.

I didn't vote for him. He's an embarassment and I don't consider him my
president.

Interesting - I am not sure exactly where you are, but I see plenty of
"young" voters at my local polling place.
Cheryl

On 9/25/05 4:30 PM, in article ,
"Cereus-validus......." wrote:

Hey there Gomerella,

I not only vote, I'm an election judge too. I am speaking from first hand
experience.

For many hours we often sit and wait with nothing to do because the average
number of registered voters who actually vote is only around thirty percent
on a good day, even less for the primaries and non-presidential elections.
By far the majority who DO vote are senior citizens. Never seen teenages or
"young adults" (18-21) vote.

What the Japanese and Europeans say is absolutely true: "Americans ARE lazy
and stoopid!!!"

Thats how we have gotten into this mess with having no competent leadership.
It was a long time in coming.


"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch.



Like it or not, we are all stuck with this doofus as president even if he
doesn't measure up as your personal savior.

I don't look to the president to be a personal savior. I think that's the
problem with the person I responded to and many republicans. They think
Bush is their personal savior and this thing is a game for them to win. It



"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...


"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Belzon Bioya" expounded:

Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going
smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that makes
your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?

You got upset when someone criticized him.

I didn't vote for him. He's an embarassment and I don't consider him my
president.

Consider yourself lucky.

It doesn't happen in most states.

You actually saw them go into the booths and vote or were they loitering
outside or playing in the gymnasium? We do have plenty of the latter who
can't be bothered to vote. They think its just another day off from school.


"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
Interesting - I am not sure exactly where you are, but I see plenty of
"young" voters at my local polling place.
Cheryl

On 9/25/05 4:30 PM, in article ,
"Cereus-validus......." wrote:

Hey there Gomerella,

I not only vote, I'm an election judge too. I am speaking from first hand
experience.

For many hours we often sit and wait with nothing to do because the
average
number of registered voters who actually vote is only around thirty
percent
on a good day, even less for the primaries and non-presidential
elections.
By far the majority who DO vote are senior citizens. Never seen teenages
or
"young adults" (18-21) vote.

What the Japanese and Europeans say is absolutely true: "Americans ARE
lazy
and stoopid!!!"

Thats how we have gotten into this mess with having no competent
leadership.
It was a long time in coming.


"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch.



Like it or not, we are all stuck with this doofus as president even if
he
doesn't measure up as your personal savior.

I don't look to the president to be a personal savior. I think that's
the
problem with the person I responded to and many republicans. They think
Bush is their personal savior and this thing is a game for them to win.
It



"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...


"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Belzon Bioya" expounded:

Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going
smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that
makes
your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?

You got upset when someone criticized him.

I didn't vote for him. He's an embarassment and I don't consider him
my
president.

In line in front of me, behind me, leaving booths, working at the polls -
ages 18+. Tattooed, studded, pierced and the more "normal" looking alike.


Actually, it does leave me with a warm fuzzy.


Cheryl

On 9/25/05 5:08 PM, in article ,
"Cereus-validus......." wrote:

Consider yourself lucky.

It doesn't happen in most states.

You actually saw them go into the booths and vote or were they loitering
outside or playing in the gymnasium? We do have plenty of the latter who
can't be bothered to vote. They think its just another day off from school.


"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
Interesting - I am not sure exactly where you are, but I see plenty of
"young" voters at my local polling place.
Cheryl

On 9/25/05 4:30 PM, in article ,
"Cereus-validus......." wrote:

Hey there Gomerella,

I not only vote, I'm an election judge too. I am speaking from first hand
experience.

For many hours we often sit and wait with nothing to do because the
average
number of registered voters who actually vote is only around thirty
percent
on a good day, even less for the primaries and non-presidential
elections.
By far the majority who DO vote are senior citizens. Never seen teenages
or
"young adults" (18-21) vote.

What the Japanese and Europeans say is absolutely true: "Americans ARE
lazy
and stoopid!!!"

Thats how we have gotten into this mess with having no competent
leadership.
It was a long time in coming.


"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't vote,
don't bitch.



Like it or not, we are all stuck with this doofus as president even if
he
doesn't measure up as your personal savior.

I don't look to the president to be a personal savior. I think that's
the
problem with the person I responded to and many republicans. They think
Bush is their personal savior and this thing is a game for them to win.
It



"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...


"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Belzon Bioya" expounded:

Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going
smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that
makes
your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?

You got upset when someone criticized him.

I didn't vote for him. He's an embarassment and I don't consider him
my
president.

Actually, it does leave me with a warm fuzzy.

Be sure to wear protection next time you tailgate those young tattoo freaks.

If they had it done with a dirty needle you could get a serious infection or
worse.

Where in the San Francisco area are you anyway?


"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
In line in front of me, behind me, leaving booths, working at the polls -
ages 18+. Tattooed, studded, pierced and the more "normal" looking alike.


Actually, it does leave me with a warm fuzzy.


Cheryl

On 9/25/05 5:08 PM, in article ,
"Cereus-validus......." wrote:

Consider yourself lucky.

It doesn't happen in most states.

You actually saw them go into the booths and vote or were they loitering
outside or playing in the gymnasium? We do have plenty of the latter who
can't be bothered to vote. They think its just another day off from
school.


"Cheryl Isaak" wrote in message
...
Interesting - I am not sure exactly where you are, but I see plenty of
"young" voters at my local polling place.
Cheryl

On 9/25/05 4:30 PM, in article
,
"Cereus-validus......." wrote:

Hey there Gomerella,

I not only vote, I'm an election judge too. I am speaking from first
hand
experience.

For many hours we often sit and wait with nothing to do because the
average
number of registered voters who actually vote is only around thirty
percent
on a good day, even less for the primaries and non-presidential
elections.
By far the majority who DO vote are senior citizens. Never seen
teenages
or
"young adults" (18-21) vote.

What the Japanese and Europeans say is absolutely true: "Americans ARE
lazy
and stoopid!!!"

Thats how we have gotten into this mess with having no competent
leadership.
It was a long time in coming.


"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Well, most Amerikanskys don't even vote at all.

So what, I did.

If you vote you have a right to and should criticize. If you don't
vote,
don't bitch.



Like it or not, we are all stuck with this doofus as president even
if
he
doesn't measure up as your personal savior.

I don't look to the president to be a personal savior. I think that's
the
problem with the person I responded to and many republicans. They
think
Bush is their personal savior and this thing is a game for them to
win.
It



"Belzon Bioya" wrote in message
...


"Ann" wrote in message
...
"Belzon Bioya" expounded:

Evidently we are still lacking in them because things aren't going
smoothly
in Texas. I guess you really aren't interested in anything that
makes
your
president or his party look incompetant, corrupt, or facile.

What makes him my president any more than yours?

You got upset when someone criticized him.

I didn't vote for him. He's an embarassment and I don't consider him
my
president.

"presley" expounded:

But THAT story doesn't support your theory, which is that the mayor, the
governor, and the people of Louisiana are total idiots and to blame for
everything bad that happened there. Maybe, just maybe, they are no better
and no worse than people elsewhere, including Texas. (And, incidentally,
there are no "secondary" roads out of New Orleans, so they had to make do
with essentially 4 or 5 evacuation routes).

Not once did I call them idiots. I said they were the front line in a
disaster, and they failed. And no, I didn't get my info from the
hysterical newscasters, the company I work for is based in Baton Rouge
- but do continue to misrepresent what I say, it's enjoyable to see
where you will twist.....
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

On 9/25/05 7:13 PM, in article ,
"Cereus-validus......." wrote:

Actually, it does leave me with a warm fuzzy.

Be sure to wear protection next time you tailgate those young tattoo freaks.
Hey - I keep my distance!

If they had it done with a dirty needle you could get a serious infection or
worse.

Where in the San Francisco area are you anyway?


Southern New Hampshire!

Cheryl

"Cereus-validus......." wrote in message
...
Hey there Gomerella,

I not only vote, I'm an election judge too. I am speaking from first hand
experience.

For many hours we often sit and wait with nothing to do because the
average number of registered voters who actually vote is only around
thirty percent on a good day, even less for the primaries and
non-presidential elections. By far the majority who DO vote are senior
citizens. Never seen teenages or "young adults" (18-21) vote.

What the Japanese and Europeans say is absolutely true: "Americans ARE
lazy and stoopid!!!"

Thats how we have gotten into this mess with having no competent
leadership. It was a long time in coming.

One problem with young people voting is that they are very ill-informed
about issues. Most of them are engaged in too many hormone driven activities
to concern themselves with politics and issues. I started voting when I was
twenty-one and have never failed to vote in over fifty years. Yes, I voted
Republican in the first couple of elections because that was the party of my
parents even though they were dirt-poor farmers. I was not an informed voter
at age twenty-one. I remember my father calling a neighbor a communist
because he was one of the early supporters of the Democratic-Farmer-Labor
groups in our area and wondering about his logic.

After I became a news junkie, I changed my politics because I quickly
learned that Republicans were the party of the rich and mega-rich
corporations, much as they may protest that label. Check out the percentage
of people whom the inheritance tax, which the bushies wish to repeal,
impacts. (BTW, I've too often heard that Republican mantra about rich people
and jobs to ever believe it, and dubya is a prime example of the useless
rich with inherited wealth. The country can't afford any more dubyas!)

I've now moved into a retirement area, and the seniors are no longer
lock-step Republicans. In smaller groups they are doing a lot of grumbling
about all his spending in Iraq with no plan about paying for it, and the
daily death count in Iraq isn't helping. His only ardent supporters are
those who are the born-agains, who want prayer and creative design in
schools, and the anti-abortion groups. It should be an interesting election
next year. You can bet I'll do my best to be around to reduce the number of
Republicans in the congress and the senate and help return the country to
normal politics.

JPS