Being a student always leaves you feeling stupid and, here I am again.
I'm getting too old for this, maybe. For other newbies out there let me
just say that if you are planning on saving corn to plant next year, it
had better be open pollinated corn and not hybrid corn. With open
pollinated corn you can hand pollinate the corn (no snickering out
there, you know who you are) and then bag it (sort of the opposite of
what people do) and have corn with the same genome for the next year.
With hybrid corn there is no chance. Self pollination only leads to
divergent genomes, mixed populations of corn. This is what I am reading
in a book called "The Omnivores Dilemma". Besides the above, in spite of
$10,000,000,000 annually in commodity supports for corn growers, most of
them are just barely getting by, while the low price of American corn is
killing Mexican agriculture!!?? Adios Mexico, good morning Juan.

Additionally, Americans consume more corn, in all its' manifestations
than Mexicans. There are corn by-products in a quarter of the products
sold in the average supermarket, not to mention the construction
materials in the building. How do they know that? That's another
fascinating exposition.

The book may end-up sucking but it sure starts out like a house afire.

Got mine from the library.

That's my book report for the night.

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

In article
,
Bill Rose wrote:

Being a student always leaves you feeling stupid and, here I am again.
I'm getting too old for this, maybe. For other newbies out there let me
just say that if you are planning on saving corn to plant next year, it
had better be open pollinated corn and not hybrid corn. With open
pollinated corn you can hand pollinate the corn (no snickering out
there, you know who you are) and then bag it (sort of the opposite of
what people do) and have corn with the same genome for the next year.
With hybrid corn there is no chance. Self pollination only leads to
divergent genomes, mixed populations of corn. This is what I am reading
in a book called "The Omnivores Dilemma". Besides the above, in spite of
$10,000,000,000 annually in commodity supports for corn growers, most of
them are just barely getting by, while the low price of American corn is
killing Mexican agriculture!!?? Adios Mexico, good morning Juan.

Additionally, Americans consume more corn, in all its' manifestations
than Mexicans. There are corn by-products in a quarter of the products
sold in the average supermarket, not to mention the construction
materials in the building. How do they know that? That's another
fascinating exposition.

The book may end-up sucking but it sure starts out like a house afire.

Got mine from the library.

That's my book report for the night.

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

The price of corn in the US is way up because of ethanol production.
The USDA predicts that more corn will be planted this year than has
been planted since before WWII. (The exact year eludes me. I'd have
to look it up.)

The price of corn is up in Mexico, too, making it hard for poor
folks to afford masa to make tortillas.


The first book Michael Pollen wrote is pretty interesting, too:

"The Botany of Desire."

I'm not quite awake yet. Please excuse the stilted language...

Jan

--
Bedouin proverb: If you have no troubles, buy a goat.

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Fri, 25 May 2007 11:07:13 -0900, Jan Flora
wrote:


The price of corn in the US is way up because of ethanol production.
The USDA predicts that more corn will be planted this year than has
been planted since before WWII. (The exact year eludes me. I'd have
to look it up.)

The price of corn is up in Mexico, too, making it hard for poor
folks to afford masa to make tortillas.


The first book Michael Pollen wrote is pretty interesting, too:

"The Botany of Desire."

I'm not quite awake yet. Please excuse the stilted language...


http://hawaiiseed.org/seed_exchange.html

"New legislation in Iraq recently put in place by the US prevents
farmers from saving their seeds. The Food and Agriculture
Organization (FAO) estimates that 97% of Iraq’s farmers use saved seed
from their own stocks from last year’s harvest or purchased in local
markets. When the new law Order No. 81 (4/26/04) goes into effect,
seed saving will be illegal and markets will offer only PVP (Plant
Variety Protected) seed which has been “invented” and patented and
licensed by the transnational corporations. "

There are many articles about this happening.

It's no wonder farmers in southern Iraq are beginning to grow poppies.

They who control the essentials, control the people.

Next thing you know, we who save seeds will be busted.

Screw 'em.
Charlie
http://www.cpa-iraq.org/regulations/

Lord, Charlie, that is mind numbing to try and read.

I don't know how growing open pollinating corn could be illegel. Any
patent that there may have been, would have run out long ago, it has
been around forever. But if it is the deal where it is GMO corn or
whatever being grown, then the pollen will drift and contaminate
adjacent fields. I think the contaminator should be held responsible
but, as we saw up in Canada, the poor schmuck who had his soybeans
contaminated was held resposible when he tried to grow the seeds that he
had raised.

The Iraqui Government should be given a grace period in which to develop
their own hybrids, while the country pulls itself back together. Which
won't happen until Bush gets the oil. Besides, if there wasn't a
conlict, Bush would have no war profits.

Sort of reminds me of Il Duce.

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum

On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:28:19 -0500, Charlie wrote:

On Fri, 25 May 2007 11:07:13 -0900, Jan Flora
wrote:


The price of corn in the US is way up because of ethanol production.
The USDA predicts that more corn will be planted this year than has
been planted since before WWII. (The exact year eludes me. I'd have
to look it up.)

The price of corn is up in Mexico, too, making it hard for poor
folks to afford masa to make tortillas.


The first book Michael Pollen wrote is pretty interesting, too:

"The Botany of Desire."

I'm not quite awake yet. Please excuse the stilted language...


http://hawaiiseed.org/seed_exchange.html

"New legislation in Iraq recently put in place by the US prevents
farmers from saving their seeds. The Food and Agriculture
Organization (FAO) estimates that 97% of Iraq’s farmers use saved seed
from their own stocks from last year’s harvest or purchased in local
markets. When the new law Order No. 81 (4/26/04) goes into effect,
seed saving will be illegal and markets will offer only PVP (Plant
Variety Protected) seed which has been “invented” and patented and
licensed by the transnational corporations. "

There are many articles about this happening.

It's no wonder farmers in southern Iraq are beginning to grow poppies.

They who control the essentials, control the people.

Next thing you know, we who save seeds will be busted.

Screw 'em.
A bunch of nonsense.

John

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:44:52 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

The Iraqui Government should be given a grace period in which to develop
their own hybrids, while the country pulls itself back together. Which
won't happen until Bush gets the oil. Besides, if there wasn't a
conlict, Bush would have no war profits.

Sort of reminds me of Il Duce.

Do you think they will have the freedom to develop their own
*anything* ?? Anything that would be theirs and theirs alone?

I think not.

Seems to me they had a system going, wherein they were saving their
own seeds. As were those in India with cotton. Hybridization is
certainly beneficial and results in some marvelous crops... sweet corn
for instance. Stowell's Evergreen (open pollinated) is not even close
to being as TripleSweet Hybrid or any of the super sweets. Which do I
buy at market? The really really sweet hybrids.

The super sweet are too sweet for my taste and, to my taste, don't taste
like corn but then I've only bought them out of a store. When mine are
good, they taste like sweet corn. I don't mean to start a ****in'
contest, it's just the way I like them.

But I also have
five pounds of assorted open pollinates in suspended animation.
Hybridization creates dependency, which fosters control and
exploitation.

Saving seeds is a tradition and that, along with Lord knows what else,
is being destroyed. All over the world.
Only the seven deadly sins seem to be in vogue.

Jeez man, how many children died, on account of sanctions, even
*before* the war?
Only 500,000 under 5 years of age. Madeline Albright assure us that it
was an acceptable number, may she burn in Hell.
http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1084

When I mentioned poppies, here is the link.

http://www.commondreams.org/archive/2007/05/23/1392/

It seems to happen where ever the CIA goes, South east Asia, central
America, Afghanistan. Always a big jump in drugs. Ollie North was
financing his shadow government with it.

Some bloggers are speculating that, for some Iraqi farmers, there is
more profit in opium than in having to try and make a living raising
"licensed" crops. Plus the ignominy of being forced to play by rules
foriegn and not of your liking. Hell, should any of us like this?
Oh, ask the Russians. They will tell you how this is going to end.
American trainers going off with their military students and not coming
back.
The rest of the arabs and Iranians will do what they need to do. When
you get mad enough, you don't care about anything any more. You just
want to push back at any price. Bush wants his eternal war and so do his
backers. More war profits and less public control is the name of the
game and everybody in Washington knows it. But who dares bite the hand
that feeds them?

Rant over.

That weren't no rant Charlie, that was just speculatin'. I'd like to
give you my version of a rant but I'm out of time. My lovey will be home
soon and I should be getting dinner on. Maybe next time.

Back on topic. Just back from the local plant house with
a half truck load of color for the garden and patio area. I recently
was offered a rather large stash of pots and containers of various
sizes. and am going to grab some barleywine, turn off this infernal
froth makin' machine, turn on the outside music and sink my hands in
the dirt and make pretty and happy.

Next year I am going to start more of the old-timey flowers to save
seed. One great thing about the old heirloom stuff. They often
smell good. Try smellin' a hybrid Wave petunia next to an
old-fashioned vining 'tunia. You'll know what I mean.
Like hybrid roses and the real deal. Do you know if echinacea,
astragalus, and hysopp have smells? I guess I'm gonna' find out.

Care, and have a sudsy weekend all!
Don't worry about me. I never drink too much. I always pass out first.
Prost!
Charlie & Bill

Bang those pots

John Bachman expounded:

A bunch of nonsense.

Too bad it isn't.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

In article ,
John Bachman wrote:

On Fri, 25 May 2007 14:28:19 -0500, Charlie wrote:

On Fri, 25 May 2007 11:07:13 -0900, Jan Flora
wrote:


The price of corn in the US is way up because of ethanol production.
The USDA predicts that more corn will be planted this year than has
been planted since before WWII. (The exact year eludes me. I'd have
to look it up.)

The price of corn is up in Mexico, too, making it hard for poor
folks to afford masa to make tortillas.


The first book Michael Pollen wrote is pretty interesting, too:

"The Botany of Desire."

I'm not quite awake yet. Please excuse the stilted language...


http://hawaiiseed.org/seed_exchange.html

"New legislation in Iraq recently put in place by the US prevents
farmers from saving their seeds. The Food and Agriculture
Organization (FAO) estimates that 97% of Iraq’s farmers use saved seed
from their own stocks from last year’s harvest or purchased in local
markets. When the new law Order No. 81 (4/26/04) goes into effect,
seed saving will be illegal and markets will offer only PVP (Plant
Variety Protected) seed which has been “invented” and patented and
licensed by the transnational corporations. "

There are many articles about this happening.

It's no wonder farmers in southern Iraq are beginning to grow poppies.

They who control the essentials, control the people.

Next thing you know, we who save seeds will be busted.

Screw 'em.


A bunch of nonsense.

John

Uh, John, we know you are a level headed man. A pragmatist. Could you
expand on this?
- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum

In article , Charlie wrote:

"From the news these days you'd think farmers have never had a better
friend than ethanol. Headlines holler that corn prices are soaring and
that at this moment farmers are planting more acres of corn than they
have in the last 50 years. Reporters writing about the ethanol boom
are throwing around words like gold rush, jackpot, and nirvana. But if
you actually are a farmer, ethanol and the high corn prices it brings
is looking less and less like a blessing -- and more like a curse."

Full article at:

http://alternet.org/environment/52073/

"We won't get fooled again"
Charlie

Won't get fooled again Charlie? Maybe not this way but, there are lots
of ways to fool us. I have to admit though, it is a conceit that I would
aspire to.

Reading along in "Omnivore's Dilemma", it takes just over a calorie of
fossil fuel to get a calorie of corn. Back in the 1940's, before
chemical fertilizers, the yields were lower BUT you got 2 calories out
for every calorie put in (crop rotations and manure).

Pause to scratch head and ponder. So if we are going to be expanding our
production of corn, who wins? Exxon, Shell, BP, et al. win. Why are we
growing more corn? To lessen our dependancy on oil. What do we need to
grow more corn? More oil. I think we can all join the farmers here by
dropping our shorts, grabbing our ankles, and pray someone hasn't thrown
sand into the vaseline.

I really got to go plant those 'maters.

- Bill

Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (and bang those damn pots)

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Fri, 25 May 2007 17:30:53 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

It seems to happen where ever the CIA goes, South east Asia, central
America, Afghanistan. Always a big jump in drugs. Ollie North was
financing his shadow government with it.

ahhhh...someone else has been paying attention the last few decades.


The rest of the arabs and Iranians will do what they need to do. When
you get mad enough, you don't care about anything any more. You just
want to push back at any price. Bush wants his eternal war and so do his
backers. More war profits and less public control is the name of the
game and everybody in Washington knows it. But who dares bite the hand
that feeds them?

"Every normal man must be tempted at times to spit on his hands,
hoist the black flag, and begin to slit throats." -- H.L. Mencken

"In the United States, doing good has come to be, like patriotism, a
favorite device of persons with something to sell." -- H. L. Mencken

A wonderful man. I need to read more of him. We need news people like
him but what do we get? We get Walter Lippman wanna bes, working their
tails off and, completely dedicated to "manufacturing of consent" for
the ruling class.

But I digress . . .


Echinacea does have a nice perfume... it is light, ya' gotta get right
into it, so you will poke your nose when you enjoy. In my part of
the world, bumble bees and butterflies love the blooms.

If you want intoxicating evening perfume, and beautiful flowers, and a
wonderful climbing screen, try Moonflowers, if you haven't. Beautiful
four to six inch nightly blooms.

I tried this one once before but it up and died on me. I'll give it
another shot. I have the perfect place for it.

We have been doing them for twenty
ears....we love the perfume even more than jasmine or Night Blooming
Stock or petunias. We plant the night scents so that as you walk or
sit in differnt areas of the garden (patio is simply an extension of
garden), you inhale different scents.

It's heaven, my friends, pure olfactory heaven!

Plant 'maters and get Moonflower seeds. I should be able to do that.

Care, and have a sudsy Memorial Day weekend all. Support the troops and
get them home, where we love & want them. We don't need no more stinking
memorials.

Prost!

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (Bang those pots)


Ya know Charlie, alphabetically speaking, that should be the "Bill and
Charlie Show";-) (I've never been a sock puppet before.) or maybe "Rants
Uber Alles" Mon dieux, ce fois nous sommes aller trop loin. Uh, what
kind of frogs do you have Charlie? . . .

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:19:38 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

Plant 'maters and get Moonflower seeds. I should be able to do that.

Some say that nicking the hard seed coat will aid in a speedier
germination. Tried that. It works, but is a major PITA.

Soaking overnight in water is effective.

I let them rot for awhile in large pots. Then Transfer.



Frogs indeed we have. When we had the koi pond, a bullfrog took up
residence. Pond went by the wayside as maintenence required lots of
knee time and that wasn't working so well.

I drove in metal rods to hold on to about the pond. Serious rods three
of them. This after a sculpture I was holding onto gave in while trying
to rescue a large koi. Not nice or safe.


Peeper frogs of some sort live in the creek and serenade us from
spring to fall and and we always have several tree frogs. Which are a
boon to our mini-ecosystem, but when the tree frogs are feeling
amorous they are the loudest and most annoying thing I have ever had
in the garden, self included.

Sometimes I can't stand it any longer and get the hose and long range
nozzle and start blasting around in the trees until he shuts up, but
it is never for long.

We have all sort of sounds here peeper are quiet compared to some.

Four of my boys friends, and a couple that are close to me, are stuck
in that hellhole as we speak. One of them just had a child, and he is
not even in country to be with his family. Everyday they are in my
thoughts.

I think of them as soccer guys I coached. I thought we learned better
but it seems national tragedy blinds us all. The image of towers
.....the image of people...enough.

To life, to love, to caring
Prost!
Charlie

Bill Wagner

http://www.archive.org/details/AnUnfairWar

--

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade
http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid
This article is posted under fair use rules in accordance with
Title 17 U.S.C. Section 107, and is strictly for the educational
and informative purposes. This material is distributed without profit.

In article , Charlie wrote:

Peut-être pas. Si oui, c'est la vie. Je suis sûr que beaucoup nous
ignorent maintenant

Mon dieux mon ami. Dans mes bras. Tu a caché des chose. Quel surprise et
joie. Bonne fête.

Salut la compagnie,

Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 26 May 2007 15:18:09 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

Peut-être pas. Si oui, c'est la vie. Je suis sûr que beaucoup nous
ignorent maintenant

Mon dieux mon ami. Dans mes bras. Tu a caché des chose. Quel surprise et
joie. Bonne fête.

Salut la compagnie,

Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)


Pour ceci je ne peux pas prendre le crédit, mais peut-être il
m'inspirera apprendre. Je suis désolé de décevoir, mon ami.

Je suis désolé

Soin
Charles, le trompeur

Kein probleme.

Im jedenfalls werder wir die Kochtöpfe weiter schlagen.

Dein guten Freund,

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputaum (mostly)

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 26 May 2007 17:39:38 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 26 May 2007 15:18:09 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

In article , Charlie wrote:

Peut-être pas. Si oui, c'est la vie. Je suis sûr que beaucoup nous
ignorent maintenant

Mon dieux mon ami. Dans mes bras. Tu a caché des chose. Quel surprise et
joie. Bonne fête.

Salut la compagnie,

Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)


Pour ceci je ne peux pas prendre le crédit, mais peut-être il
m'inspirera apprendre. Je suis désolé de décevoir, mon ami.

Je suis désolé

Soin
Charles, le trompeur

Kein probleme.

Im jedenfalls werder wir die Kochtöpfe weiter schlagen.

Dein guten Freund,

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputaum (mostly)


In der Tat werde ich. Möglicherweise verwirren unsere Austäusche
einiges hier, aber dieses ist eine gute Sache. Die, die Ohren haben,
hören. Ich finde es zu unterhalten!

Deine Filter einstellen, um eine vorbehaltliche Linie mit Charlien
anzunehmen. Das Verständigen mit jemand auf einem persönlicheren
Niveau ist eine Spitze, die für mich traumatisch ist, aber was die
Hölle… möglicherweise ich sie dieses Wochenende riskiere.

Die maschinelle übersetzung bitte entschuldigen, denn ich bin nicht
imstande, dieses auf meinen Selbst zu vollenden.

Ich hoffe, daß dieses sinnvoll ist. Das Aufheben der übersetzung
scheint, eine angemessene Idee des Gedankens zu geben.

Obacht und Durcheinander und ein grosses Grinsen
Charlie

Pas de mal, mon ami.

Ich will jetzt zu Bett gehen. J'ai sommeil.
Bis morgan. Schlafts du gut.

Un grand bisou a tous la familie.

Gute Nacht.

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)

On Sat, 26 May 2007 17:38:17 -0400, William Wagner
wrote:

To life, to love, to caring
Prost!

Prosit

On Sat, 26 May 2007 16:09:08 -0500, Charlie wrote:

On Sat, 26 May 2007 11:19:38 -0700, Bill Rose
wrote:

Plant 'maters and get Moonflower seeds. I should be able to do that.

Some say that nicking the hard seed coat will aid in a speedier
germination. Tried that. It works, but is a major PITA.

Soaking overnight in water is effective.

Care, and have a sudsy Memorial Day weekend all. Support the troops and
get them home, where we love & want them. We don't need no more stinking
memorials.

Prost!

- Bill
Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (Bang those pots)


Ya know Charlie, alphabetically speaking, that should be the "Bill and
Charlie Show";-) (I've never been a sock puppet before.) or maybe "Rants
Uber Alles" Mon dieux, ce fois nous sommes aller trop loin.

Peut-être pas. Si oui, c'est la vie. Je suis sûr que beaucoup nous
ignorent maintenant

Don't be too sure...

[...]