Is there a plant or small bush that can be used in areas where the soil is
terrible?

I have a section of ground around my patio right over the septic tank that
has terrible fill dirt soil, lots of rocks, and one part gets full sun and
another shade from a big Doug Fir. So I'm looking for something that
doesn't have huge roots, and will survive in the Seattle Area. I was
looking at Periwinkle, but that is a bit too aggressive for me - I don't
need any more invasive species in my yard. I've also ruled out Ivy due to
the habit of vermin using it as a home.

Just something leafy and maybe flowers.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
...
Is there a plant or small bush that can be used in areas where the soil is
terrible?

I have a section of ground around my patio right over the septic tank that
has terrible fill dirt soil, lots of rocks, and one part gets full sun and
another shade from a big Doug Fir. So I'm looking for something that
doesn't have huge roots, and will survive in the Seattle Area. I was
looking at Periwinkle, but that is a bit too aggressive for me - I don't
need any more invasive species in my yard. I've also ruled out Ivy due to
the habit of vermin using it as a home.

Just something leafy and maybe flowers.


Pachysandra will thrive in some truly ugly soil and situations. In my
previous home, it lived in a spot where chunks of ice the size of shoe boxes
fell on it all winter, and it was roasted and dry all summer. The plants
just laughed at this treatment. However, you have absolutely no excuse for
not buying a bag of composted manure and mixing it into your soil. While
you're on your knees, you may as well sift out as many rocks as you can.

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eigenvector" wrote in message
...
Is there a plant or small bush that can be used in areas where the soil
is terrible?

I have a section of ground around my patio right over the septic tank
that has terrible fill dirt soil, lots of rocks, and one part gets full
sun and another shade from a big Doug Fir. So I'm looking for something
that doesn't have huge roots, and will survive in the Seattle Area. I
was looking at Periwinkle, but that is a bit too aggressive for me - I
don't need any more invasive species in my yard. I've also ruled out Ivy
due to the habit of vermin using it as a home.

Just something leafy and maybe flowers.


Pachysandra will thrive in some truly ugly soil and situations. In my
previous home, it lived in a spot where chunks of ice the size of shoe
boxes fell on it all winter, and it was roasted and dry all summer. The
plants just laughed at this treatment. However, you have absolutely no
excuse for not buying a bag of composted manure and mixing it into your
soil. While you're on your knees, you may as well sift out as many rocks
as you can.

Well, actually now that you mention it I'm just now on my way to the store
to pick up a mattock. I was about to put up some borders and noticed that
about 1/2" penetration was about all I could get out of my shovel. I think
its time to start hacking away at my yard. So yes I guess the soil will be
much improved - but my basic need remains. Something that is tough,
self-maintaining, and not a host to vermin like ivy.

I have a patch of Hen and Chicks in my front yard, the only plant I've ever
seen that crowds out rabbit brush and bermuda grass. But I think this
particular spot is too shady for them.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eigenvector" wrote in message
...
Is there a plant or small bush that can be used in areas where the soil
is terrible?

I have a section of ground around my patio right over the septic tank
that has terrible fill dirt soil, lots of rocks, and one part gets full
sun and another shade from a big Doug Fir. So I'm looking for something
that doesn't have huge roots, and will survive in the Seattle Area. I
was looking at Periwinkle, but that is a bit too aggressive for me - I
don't need any more invasive species in my yard. I've also ruled out
Ivy due to the habit of vermin using it as a home.

Just something leafy and maybe flowers.


Pachysandra will thrive in some truly ugly soil and situations. In my
previous home, it lived in a spot where chunks of ice the size of shoe
boxes fell on it all winter, and it was roasted and dry all summer. The
plants just laughed at this treatment. However, you have absolutely no
excuse for not buying a bag of composted manure and mixing it into your
soil. While you're on your knees, you may as well sift out as many rocks
as you can.

Well, actually now that you mention it I'm just now on my way to the store
to pick up a mattock. I was about to put up some borders and noticed that
about 1/2" penetration was about all I could get out of my shovel. I
think its time to start hacking away at my yard. So yes I guess the soil
will be much improved - but my basic need remains. Something that is
tough, self-maintaining, and not a host to vermin like ivy.

I have a patch of Hen and Chicks in my front yard, the only plant I've
ever seen that crowds out rabbit brush and bermuda grass. But I think
this particular spot is too shady for them.


Pachysandra. They don't HAVE to have the soil enriched, but it's silly not
to, considering how cheap composted manure is. These plants don't have very
deep roots, either. As far as vermin, any ground cover that provides a
hiding place will provide shelter for vermin. But, if you need a ground
cover, what choice do you have?

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eigenvector" wrote in message
...
Is there a plant or small bush that can be used in areas where the soil
is terrible?

I have a section of ground around my patio right over the septic tank
that has terrible fill dirt soil, lots of rocks, and one part gets full
sun and another shade from a big Doug Fir. So I'm looking for
something that doesn't have huge roots, and will survive in the Seattle
Area. I was looking at Periwinkle, but that is a bit too aggressive
for me - I don't need any more invasive species in my yard. I've also
ruled out Ivy due to the habit of vermin using it as a home.

Just something leafy and maybe flowers.


Pachysandra will thrive in some truly ugly soil and situations. In my
previous home, it lived in a spot where chunks of ice the size of shoe
boxes fell on it all winter, and it was roasted and dry all summer. The
plants just laughed at this treatment. However, you have absolutely no
excuse for not buying a bag of composted manure and mixing it into your
soil. While you're on your knees, you may as well sift out as many rocks
as you can.

Well, actually now that you mention it I'm just now on my way to the
store to pick up a mattock. I was about to put up some borders and
noticed that about 1/2" penetration was about all I could get out of my
shovel. I think its time to start hacking away at my yard. So yes I
guess the soil will be much improved - but my basic need remains.
Something that is tough, self-maintaining, and not a host to vermin like
ivy.

I have a patch of Hen and Chicks in my front yard, the only plant I've
ever seen that crowds out rabbit brush and bermuda grass. But I think
this particular spot is too shady for them.


Pachysandra. They don't HAVE to have the soil enriched, but it's silly not
to, considering how cheap composted manure is. These plants don't have
very deep roots, either. As far as vermin, any ground cover that provides
a hiding place will provide shelter for vermin. But, if you need a ground
cover, what choice do you have?
Yeah I suppose. I have something pictured in my mind, but just don't have
the knowledge to define it well enough.

I took a gander at the Pach stuff, I'm just not sure. I notice that it's
related to boxwood, something that did not survive planting in that
location - too much full sun I think. I'm not slamming your suggestion,
just pondering.

I may just go ahead and put a boatload of lavender there. I really like
that stuff and it seems to thrive in the sun.

As to the mattock, I didn't realize they were so cheap, had I known that I
would have gotten one sooner. Oh well, off to break soil.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

"JoeSpareBedroom" wrote in message
...
"Eigenvector" wrote in message
...
Is there a plant or small bush that can be used in areas where the
soil is terrible?

I have a section of ground around my patio right over the septic tank
that has terrible fill dirt soil, lots of rocks, and one part gets
full sun and another shade from a big Doug Fir. So I'm looking for
something that doesn't have huge roots, and will survive in the
Seattle Area. I was looking at Periwinkle, but that is a bit too
aggressive for me - I don't need any more invasive species in my yard.
I've also ruled out Ivy due to the habit of vermin using it as a home.

Just something leafy and maybe flowers.


Pachysandra will thrive in some truly ugly soil and situations. In my
previous home, it lived in a spot where chunks of ice the size of shoe
boxes fell on it all winter, and it was roasted and dry all summer. The
plants just laughed at this treatment. However, you have absolutely no
excuse for not buying a bag of composted manure and mixing it into your
soil. While you're on your knees, you may as well sift out as many
rocks as you can.

Well, actually now that you mention it I'm just now on my way to the
store to pick up a mattock. I was about to put up some borders and
noticed that about 1/2" penetration was about all I could get out of my
shovel. I think its time to start hacking away at my yard. So yes I
guess the soil will be much improved - but my basic need remains.
Something that is tough, self-maintaining, and not a host to vermin like
ivy.

I have a patch of Hen and Chicks in my front yard, the only plant I've
ever seen that crowds out rabbit brush and bermuda grass. But I think
this particular spot is too shady for them.


Pachysandra. They don't HAVE to have the soil enriched, but it's silly
not to, considering how cheap composted manure is. These plants don't
have very deep roots, either. As far as vermin, any ground cover that
provides a hiding place will provide shelter for vermin. But, if you need
a ground cover, what choice do you have?
Yeah I suppose. I have something pictured in my mind, but just don't have
the knowledge to define it well enough.

I took a gander at the Pach stuff, I'm just not sure. I notice that it's
related to boxwood, something that did not survive planting in that
location - too much full sun I think. I'm not slamming your suggestion,
just pondering.

I may just go ahead and put a boatload of lavender there. I really like
that stuff and it seems to thrive in the sun.

As to the mattock, I didn't realize they were so cheap, had I known that I
would have gotten one sooner. Oh well, off to break soil.

Distantly related to boxwood. It'll do fine. If pachysandra won't grow
there, nothing will except nasty weeds.

I may just go ahead and put a boatload of lavender there. I really like
that stuff and it seems to thrive in the sun.

If lavender (or other choices like thyme, creeping thyme, etc) will
grow, then you probably have many choices. I was assuming the spot
was too shady and the soil too poor for that (and the "does not harbor
vermin" criterion I was also having trouble with, as I would think
that "vermin" - or "wildlife" according to one's perspective - would
be happy with a fairly wide variety of vegetation, potentially).

If Pachysandra doesn't excite you, it is unlikely to be your only
choice, especially if you do end up doing at least a bit of soil
improvement.

I'd consider one plant for the sunny half and something different for
the shady half. Especially if whatever you try first only thrives on
one side or the other.

"Jim Kingdon" wrote in message
news
I may just go ahead and put a boatload of lavender there. I really like
that stuff and it seems to thrive in the sun.

If lavender (or other choices like thyme, creeping thyme, etc) will
grow, then you probably have many choices. I was assuming the spot
was too shady and the soil too poor for that (and the "does not harbor
vermin" criterion I was also having trouble with, as I would think
that "vermin" - or "wildlife" according to one's perspective - would
be happy with a fairly wide variety of vegetation, potentially).

If Pachysandra doesn't excite you, it is unlikely to be your only
choice, especially if you do end up doing at least a bit of soil
improvement.

I'd consider one plant for the sunny half and something different for
the shady half. Especially if whatever you try first only thrives on
one side or the other.

As to the vermin thing. I did volunteer work at the University doing
landscaping and groundskeeping. We tore out all the ivy and juniper bushes
around the dorms - rats had infested the ivy and juniper bushes so the U
tore it all out to get rid of their homes. I still vividly remember all the
rats fleeing as we moved into the area Bobcat engine gunning. I understand
why the rats and mice were there, years of student crap tossed out of
windows were feeding them.

"Jim Kingdon" wrote in message
news
I may just go ahead and put a boatload of lavender there. I really like
that stuff and it seems to thrive in the sun.

If lavender (or other choices like thyme, creeping thyme, etc) will
grow, then you probably have many choices. I was assuming the spot
was too shady and the soil too poor for that (and the "does not harbor
vermin" criterion I was also having trouble with, as I would think
that "vermin" - or "wildlife" according to one's perspective - would
be happy with a fairly wide variety of vegetation, potentially).

If Pachysandra doesn't excite you, it is unlikely to be your only
choice, especially if you do end up doing at least a bit of soil
improvement.

I'd consider one plant for the sunny half and something different for
the shady half. Especially if whatever you try first only thrives on
one side or the other.

I was talking to my neighbors, he suggested California poppies. He has some
planted in his side yard, they're incredibly hardy and love the full sun.
Plus they spead out and take over in horrible conditions.

I was talking to my neighbors, he suggested California poppies. He has some
planted in his side yard, they're incredibly hardy and love the full sun.
Plus they spead out and take over in horrible conditions.

Yeah, that's a good idea. I don't know if Seattle is part of their
native range, but parts of Washington state are, so if not you are
close.

People usually grow them from seed.

As for "horrible conditions", I've even grown them in pots (although
they weren't very happy). I don't have any firsthand experience
growing them outdoors.

"Jim Kingdon" wrote in message
news
I was talking to my neighbors, he suggested California poppies. He has
some
planted in his side yard, they're incredibly hardy and love the full sun.
Plus they spead out and take over in horrible conditions.

Yeah, that's a good idea. I don't know if Seattle is part of their
native range, but parts of Washington state are, so if not you are
close.

People usually grow them from seed.

As for "horrible conditions", I've even grown them in pots (although
they weren't very happy). I don't have any firsthand experience
growing them outdoors.

Well if his sideyard is any indication, they should do fine. Although I
wonder if my black thumb will change that.

"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..

"Jim Kingdon" wrote in message
news
I may just go ahead and put a boatload of lavender there. I really like
that stuff and it seems to thrive in the sun.

If lavender (or other choices like thyme, creeping thyme, etc) will
grow, then you probably have many choices. I was assuming the spot
was too shady and the soil too poor for that (and the "does not harbor
vermin" criterion I was also having trouble with, as I would think
that "vermin" - or "wildlife" according to one's perspective - would
be happy with a fairly wide variety of vegetation, potentially).

If Pachysandra doesn't excite you, it is unlikely to be your only
choice, especially if you do end up doing at least a bit of soil
improvement.

I'd consider one plant for the sunny half and something different for
the shady half. Especially if whatever you try first only thrives on
one side or the other.

As to the vermin thing. I did volunteer work at the University doing
landscaping and groundskeeping. We tore out all the ivy and juniper
bushes around the dorms - rats had infested the ivy and juniper bushes so
the U tore it all out to get rid of their homes. I still vividly remember
all the rats fleeing as we moved into the area Bobcat engine gunning. I
understand why the rats and mice were there, years of student crap tossed
out of windows were feeding them.


I've had ground covers for over 30 years, and I have never seen a rat. Mice,
yes, but they're no problem unless you've exterminated all your cats. Are
you in an urban environment where rats are already a problem?

On Jul 7, 1:53 pm, "Eigenvector" wrote:
Is there a plant or small bush that can be used in areas where the soil is
terrible?

I have a section of ground around my patio right over the septic tank that
has terrible fill dirt soil, lots of rocks, and one part gets full sun and
another shade from a big Doug Fir. So I'm looking for something that
doesn't have huge roots, and will survive in the Seattle Area. I was
looking at Periwinkle, but that is a bit too aggressive for me - I don't
need any more invasive species in my yard. I've also ruled out Ivy due to
the habit of vermin using it as a home.

Just something leafy and maybe flowers.

Look into Lamium, or if your climate allows "Brass Buttons"

after getting my mother thru her back operation brought on, no doubt,
by her years of breaking soil with a mattock I am of the "mulch it to
death" school.

we had lousy sand in one patch. I invited the area tree trimmers to
use this area to dump their mulch. I hooked up a flip flop and had
that wetting the mulch down every couple of days. within 1 year 4
feet of mulch had become nice organic soil. wet hardpan can also be
amended most easily this way. Ingrid

On Sat, 7 Jul 2007 13:41:51 -0700, "Eigenvector"
As to the mattock, I didn't realize they were so cheap, had I known that I
would have gotten one sooner. Oh well, off to break soil.

so true... look at the bumper crop in Afghanistan....
Ingrid


I was talking to my neighbors, he suggested California poppies. He has some
planted in his side yard, they're incredibly hardy and love the full sun.
Plus they spead out and take over in horrible conditions.