Product pusher. Bayer also claims to be a feeder of trees as well.


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"szilagyic" wrote in message
oups.com...
Just came across this information on preventing and killing emerald
ash borers. I live in Michigan and we are getting infested all over
in our area. Trees are dying everywhere and our local municipalities
are destroying ash trees which isn't doing a thing except making areas
look like wastelands.

Finally we found a tree in our yard that seems to be getting infested
now. After some talking around and doing some online research, I have
found there might be hope to prevent these borers from killing more
trees. Although it could be expensive depending on your situation,
there is a product out there called "Bayer Advanced GardenT Tree and
Shrub Insect Control" that has been proven effective on killing/
preventing ash borers. Best of all, it's simple to use. Just mix &
pour around the base of the tree and you're done for 12 months.

See this PDF for further info:

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/files/E2955.pdf

--
Chris

I was thinking about a question you posed a few days ago about Micro
nutrients.

We used a local product called green sand and have also used granite
dust. We my Dad and I think of these as long term feeding similar I
guess to granulated lime. Slow on breaking down. I have not touched
green sand for about 30 years. Went with cover crops and chicken waste
composted rarely usually just topical and tilled in.

Bill

http://www.google.com/search?q=Marlton%20green%20sand

--

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade

Balgreen Portal to the Souther Realm

http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid

Bill, no I was talking about micro-elements. I was stating that they should
be referred to as micro-elements rather than minor elements because they are
anything but minor. When one is lacking there is a problem.

As far as food goes, plants (most) are autotrophs meaning that they
manufacture their own food. We do not feed trees. A plant called the ghost
flower has no chlorophyll so it cannot manufacture its own food. We still
do not feed that plant. It gets its food from the bicarbohydrate transfer
of plants.

here's my thoughts on food, nutrients and essential elements.


Food is a substance that provides and energy source, mostly. Nutrient is a
substance that provides an energy source, elements, and other substances
essential for life, in types and amounts that can provide a healthy life.
Fertilizer is a substance that provides elements, as salts mostly, or in
bonded forms, that require microorganisms to alter to forms that can be
absorbed by plants. I do not call elements - nutrients, however nutrients
would contain elements. You can put a file in a folder but you can't put a
folder in a file. A list of elements can be found he
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgu...US211%26sa%3DX

17 Elements For Life - Carbon, Hydrogen, Oxygen, Nitrogen, Phosphorus,
Potassium, Calcium, Sulfur, Magnesium, Manganese, Iron, Copper, Boron,
Molybdenum, Chlorine, Zinc, Nickel [Sodium, Cobalt, Selenium?]

14 essential elements are obtained by trees from the soil. I do not have a
list of which ones they are.

Wood is the substrate of the base of the food web, the mycorrhizal fungi.
Mycorrhizae tend to be abundant in composted wood such as nurse logs. We
had great success at tree biology workshops finding mycorrhizae during dryer
times, in and about nurse logs. I believe, you don't have to agree with it,
please, just think. I think that by applying mulch as I recommend under
mulch here that you facilitate the mycorrhizae rather than just adding
fertilizer. Not that its bad in any way, fertilizer i.e.. Over
fertilizing with nitrogen is a serious problem for trees. Over nitrogen
leads to sucking insects.

Mulching - http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub3.html
and
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/ Look up "Mulch"

Did I say - Mycorrhizae are organs that facilitate the absorption of
elements essential for healthy growth. Mycorrhizae resist the Demons Of D.
Mycorrhizae facilitate the absorption of elements. Demons of D are those
things that add up to the big D word DEATH. E.g., Depletion, disruption,
and dysfunction. Elements can be depleted. Disruption, you get hit my a
Mac truck. Dysfunction, some organ such as mycorrhizae may not function.


Major Elements C; H; N; O; P; K; S; Mg; Ni; Fe; Ca; Zn; Mo; Mn; B; Cl; Cu

There is the law of the minimum. It states the element that is deficient
the most, would be the determining factor in the health of the tree.

I think research would be wise in the search for the optimum fertility level
for trees.

I did some soil testing in the upper four inches of soil and from at and
about nurse logs in old growth forest which contain hemlocks and white
pines. And much more. Here is my average on my testing for the latter.
These where five test. 3 test sites where in Allegheny National
Forest(Hearts Content) Pennsylvania
and two where in Allegheny National Forest(Tionesta Scenic area)
Pennsylvania.
Results are in Pounds Per Acre PPA. AVAILABLE ELEMENTS
P 8.2
K 236
Mg 107
Ca 594
Al 220.6
Fe 110.8
Mn 118.6
Zn 11.96
NO3-N 28.8
Did not get B or CU.
Organic matter was 29.32%
Ex Acidity 81 ME/100G
Salts mmho: 0.01 mmho/cm
Moisture %3.97
Water Soluble mg/kg B 1.0738
ACID Soluble (mg/kg)
Cd 0.976
Cu 6.768
Ni 5.71 (Penn State discovered the element Ni to be essential in small
amounts)
Mn 426.378
Co 3.084
Zn 46.818
Pb 101.792
Cr 5.078
P 726.226
The CARBON TO NITROGEN RATION was 27:1
pH 4.2 WOW

That would be a goal of mine if I was going to provide essential elements
professionally. I did not see to many people in the old growth sections.

There was more calcium at a nurse logs in a separate test.

We don't feed trees, however, we can feed the soil with composted wood
(chips and nurse logs) and leaves. We can feed the system.

I have some results for some sick hemlocks (elements in soil)


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.





"William Wagner" wrote in message
...

I was thinking about a question you posed a few days ago about Micro
nutrients.

We used a local product called green sand and have also used granite
dust. We my Dad and I think of these as long term feeding similar I
guess to granulated lime. Slow on breaking down. I have not touched
green sand for about 30 years. Went with cover crops and chicken waste
composted rarely usually just topical and tilled in.

Bill

http://www.google.com/search?q=Marlton%20green%20sand

--

S Jersey USA Zone 5 Shade

Balgreen Portal to the Souther Realm

http://www.ocutech.com/ High tech Vison aid

symplastless said:

Product pusher. Bayer also claims to be a feeder of trees as well.

You'll learn to sing some other tune when these insects arrive in your
neck of the woods. They are a monumental catastrophe. I live near
ground zero. Millions of ash trees, in forests and back yards, have
been killed. The non-native emerald ash borer attacks healthy trees
as well as stressed trees. The skeletons of dead ash in nearby wildlands
eerie and obvious. All due to a surprisingly small green beetle.

Long term (maybe very long term indeed), breeding resistant strains of
North American ash and finding appropriate biological controls will be
needed or the American ash is history.

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/

Should I Replant or Save My Ash? (PowerPoint presentation):
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/file...ProtectAsh.htm

Options for 'do it yourself' homeowners unwilling to give up on their
ash trees:
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/files/E2955.pdf

(As for me, if I had to make a choice, I would the ash tree removed
and be done with it.)

Quote from http://www.emeraldashborer.info/homeownerinfo.cfm

"IMPORTANT NOTE: Using insecticides to control EAB on ash trees is an
option in Michigan and the EAB quarantined counties in Ohio, Indiana
and Illinois. If your tree is located within an area designated for
eradication or suppression activities, it may be removed by regulatory
agencies even if it has been treated. In those cases where government-
ordered tree removals occur within the contiguous EAB quarantine
counties, consideration will be given to ash trees treated by certified
applicators utilizing methods and materials recommended by Michigan
State University. If your ash trees are located outside of this area in
Michigan, Indiana, Illinois or Ohio, using insecticides may not be
recommended. If you are not sure about the regulatory status of your
area or whether you should consider insecticides, please contact your
county Extension office."


--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

Any technology distinguishable from magic is insufficiently advanced.
(attributed to Don Marti)

I'm a registered forester in Michigan, Pat.

Ignore this "symplastless" guy... he's a wanna-be forester.
Lacking some serious formal education, and thus professional background.

Myself and my colleagues have had to sort through the majority of his
posts on this forum.

I do not believe that the American ash is "history", but there is no
doubt the bug has done some serious damage to many of our hardwood
stands in the central lower peninsula (or "810" area code as I call it -
even though the actual problem extends far beyond that area code's
boundaries).

I live in Osceola county (just South of Cadillac) and it has been found
in my county, but not doing damage to the extent that it did in lower
Michigan. I have not yet seen it in a stand up here. I hope it
continues that way.

The biggest problem is vectoring. It cannot vector itself very far
(maybe a mile or two), but people can vector it very broad and very fast
via cars, hence the "moving firewood bugs me" campaign.

Once it gets to a place where there are any form of ash trees, it goes
on a feeding frenzy that is like no other.

I've sold timber in Defiance County, Ohio - which was also one of the
EAB problem areas, but timber in NW Ohio is scattered enough as to not
be a problem for EABs.

EAB resistance is more than likely a futile attempt. The best way to
eliminate the problem is to eliminate the hosts where populations of EAB
are found. This critter is not known to prey on other trees.



Pat Kiewicz wrote:
symplastless said:
Product pusher. Bayer also claims to be a feeder of trees as well.

You'll learn to sing some other tune when these insects arrive in your
neck of the woods. They are a monumental catastrophe. I live near
ground zero. Millions of ash trees, in forests and back yards, have
been killed. The non-native emerald ash borer attacks healthy trees
as well as stressed trees. The skeletons of dead ash in nearby wildlands
eerie and obvious. All due to a surprisingly small green beetle.

Long term (maybe very long term indeed), breeding resistant strains of
North American ash and finding appropriate biological controls will be
needed or the American ash is history.

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/

Should I Replant or Save My Ash? (PowerPoint presentation):
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/file...ProtectAsh.htm

Options for 'do it yourself' homeowners unwilling to give up on their
ash trees:
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/files/E2955.pdf

(As for me, if I had to make a choice, I would the ash tree removed
and be done with it.)

Quote from http://www.emeraldashborer.info/homeownerinfo.cfm

"IMPORTANT NOTE: Using insecticides to control EAB on ash trees is an
option in Michigan and the EAB quarantined counties in Ohio, Indiana
and Illinois. If your tree is located within an area designated for
eradication or suppression activities, it may be removed by regulatory
agencies even if it has been treated. In those cases where government-
ordered tree removals occur within the contiguous EAB quarantine
counties, consideration will be given to ash trees treated by certified
applicators utilizing methods and materials recommended by Michigan
State University. If your ash trees are located outside of this area in
Michigan, Indiana, Illinois or Ohio, using insecticides may not be
recommended. If you are not sure about the regulatory status of your
area or whether you should consider insecticides, please contact your
county Extension office."

Pat

Please explain how bark forms.

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Geoff-consulting forester in the US" wrote
in message ...
I'm a registered forester in Michigan, Pat.

Ignore this "symplastless" guy... he's a wanna-be forester.
Lacking some serious formal education, and thus professional background.

Myself and my colleagues have had to sort through the majority of his
posts on this forum.

I do not believe that the American ash is "history", but there is no doubt
the bug has done some serious damage to many of our hardwood stands in the
central lower peninsula (or "810" area code as I call it - even though the
actual problem extends far beyond that area code's boundaries).

I live in Osceola county (just South of Cadillac) and it has been found in
my county, but not doing damage to the extent that it did in lower
Michigan. I have not yet seen it in a stand up here. I hope it continues
that way.

The biggest problem is vectoring. It cannot vector itself very far (maybe
a mile or two), but people can vector it very broad and very fast via
cars, hence the "moving firewood bugs me" campaign.

Once it gets to a place where there are any form of ash trees, it goes on
a feeding frenzy that is like no other.

I've sold timber in Defiance County, Ohio - which was also one of the EAB
problem areas, but timber in NW Ohio is scattered enough as to not be a
problem for EABs.

EAB resistance is more than likely a futile attempt. The best way to
eliminate the problem is to eliminate the hosts where populations of EAB
are found. This critter is not known to prey on other trees.



Pat Kiewicz wrote:
symplastless said:
Product pusher. Bayer also claims to be a feeder of trees as well.

You'll learn to sing some other tune when these insects arrive in your
neck of the woods. They are a monumental catastrophe. I live near
ground zero. Millions of ash trees, in forests and back yards, have
been killed. The non-native emerald ash borer attacks healthy trees
as well as stressed trees. The skeletons of dead ash in nearby wildlands
eerie and obvious. All due to a surprisingly small green beetle.

Long term (maybe very long term indeed), breeding resistant strains of
North American ash and finding appropriate biological controls will be
needed or the American ash is history.

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/

Should I Replant or Save My Ash? (PowerPoint presentation):
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/file...ProtectAsh.htm

Options for 'do it yourself' homeowners unwilling to give up on their ash
trees:
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/files/E2955.pdf

(As for me, if I had to make a choice, I would the ash tree removed and
be done with it.) Quote from
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/homeownerinfo.cfm

"IMPORTANT NOTE: Using insecticides to control EAB on ash trees is an
option in Michigan and the EAB quarantined counties in Ohio, Indiana and
Illinois. If your tree is located within an area designated for
eradication or suppression activities, it may be removed by regulatory
agencies even if it has been treated. In those cases where government-
ordered tree removals occur within the contiguous EAB quarantine
counties, consideration will be given to ash trees treated by certified
applicators utilizing methods and materials recommended by Michigan State
University. If your ash trees are located outside of this area in
Michigan, Indiana, Illinois or Ohio, using insecticides may not be
recommended. If you are not sure about the regulatory status of your area
or whether you should consider insecticides, please contact your county
Extension office."

I agree that no one should believe anything because I said it. But believe
it because they see it for themselves. About wanting to be a forester like
you Does that mean I would have to convince people that logging increases
forest health? Logging does anything but address issues of trees
requirements and their associates. Saying that logging increases forest
health is like saying that you can buy a bag of tree food off a shelf. When
was the last time Pat fed a tree? Where is Pats dictionary?

I did call Bayer today and they said they sell fertilizer, nitrogen and not
tree food and they will look into changing labels.

many docs can be found here on effects of logging.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...get/index.html

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.



"Geoff-consulting forester in the US" wrote
in message ...
I'm a registered forester in Michigan, Pat.

Ignore this "symplastless" guy... he's a wanna-be forester.
Lacking some serious formal education, and thus professional background.

Myself and my colleagues have had to sort through the majority of his
posts on this forum.

I do not believe that the American ash is "history", but there is no doubt
the bug has done some serious damage to many of our hardwood stands in the
central lower peninsula (or "810" area code as I call it - even though the
actual problem extends far beyond that area code's boundaries).

I live in Osceola county (just South of Cadillac) and it has been found in
my county, but not doing damage to the extent that it did in lower
Michigan. I have not yet seen it in a stand up here. I hope it continues
that way.

The biggest problem is vectoring. It cannot vector itself very far (maybe
a mile or two), but people can vector it very broad and very fast via
cars, hence the "moving firewood bugs me" campaign.

Once it gets to a place where there are any form of ash trees, it goes on
a feeding frenzy that is like no other.

I've sold timber in Defiance County, Ohio - which was also one of the EAB
problem areas, but timber in NW Ohio is scattered enough as to not be a
problem for EABs.

EAB resistance is more than likely a futile attempt. The best way to
eliminate the problem is to eliminate the hosts where populations of EAB
are found. This critter is not known to prey on other trees.



Pat Kiewicz wrote:
symplastless said:
Product pusher. Bayer also claims to be a feeder of trees as well.

You'll learn to sing some other tune when these insects arrive in your
neck of the woods. They are a monumental catastrophe. I live near
ground zero. Millions of ash trees, in forests and back yards, have
been killed. The non-native emerald ash borer attacks healthy trees
as well as stressed trees. The skeletons of dead ash in nearby wildlands
eerie and obvious. All due to a surprisingly small green beetle.

Long term (maybe very long term indeed), breeding resistant strains of
North American ash and finding appropriate biological controls will be
needed or the American ash is history.

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/

Should I Replant or Save My Ash? (PowerPoint presentation):
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/file...ProtectAsh.htm

Options for 'do it yourself' homeowners unwilling to give up on their ash
trees:
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/files/E2955.pdf

(As for me, if I had to make a choice, I would the ash tree removed and
be done with it.) Quote from
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/homeownerinfo.cfm

"IMPORTANT NOTE: Using insecticides to control EAB on ash trees is an
option in Michigan and the EAB quarantined counties in Ohio, Indiana and
Illinois. If your tree is located within an area designated for
eradication or suppression activities, it may be removed by regulatory
agencies even if it has been treated. In those cases where government-
ordered tree removals occur within the contiguous EAB quarantine
counties, consideration will be given to ash trees treated by certified
applicators utilizing methods and materials recommended by Michigan State
University. If your ash trees are located outside of this area in
Michigan, Indiana, Illinois or Ohio, using insecticides may not be
recommended. If you are not sure about the regulatory status of your area
or whether you should consider insecticides, please contact your county
Extension office."

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..
I agree that no one should believe anything because I said it. But believe
it because they see it for themselves. About wanting to be a forester like
you Does that mean I would have to convince people that logging increases
forest health? Logging does anything but address issues of trees
requirements and their associates. Saying that logging increases forest
health is like saying that you can buy a bag of tree food off a shelf.
When was the last time Pat fed a tree? Where is Pats dictionary?

I did call Bayer today and they said they sell fertilizer, nitrogen and
not tree food and they will look into changing labels.

many docs can be found here on effects of logging.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...get/index.html

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/

Your tree dictionary is a piece of crap, why do you insist on posting here
when real, trained biologist point you out as a fraud.

Beware a so called tree biologist who has never studied biology.

test


"Don Staples" wrote in message
...
"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..
I agree that no one should believe anything because I said it. But
believe it because they see it for themselves. About wanting to be a
forester like you Does that mean I would have to convince people that
logging increases forest health? Logging does anything but address issues
of trees requirements and their associates. Saying that logging increases
forest health is like saying that you can buy a bag of tree food off a
shelf. When was the last time Pat fed a tree? Where is Pats dictionary?

I did call Bayer today and they said they sell fertilizer, nitrogen and
not tree food and they will look into changing labels.

many docs can be found here on effects of logging.
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT20...get/index.html

http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/SOUND/

Your tree dictionary is a piece of crap, why do you insist on posting here
when real, trained biologist point you out as a fraud.

Beware a so called tree biologist who has never studied biology.

"Don Staples" wrote in message
Your tree dictionary is a piece of crap, why do you insist on posting here
when real, trained biologist point you out as a fraud.

Beware a so called tree biologist who has never studied biology.

For those interested my dictionary is he
www.treedictionary.com

If anyone else has a dictionary online based on tree biology please post it
for review.

BTW, Don Staples, what are you?


--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"symplastless" wrote in message
. ..

"Don Staples" wrote in message
Your tree dictionary is a piece of crap, why do you insist on posting
here when real, trained biologist point you out as a fraud.

Beware a so called tree biologist who has never studied biology.

For those interested my dictionary is he
www.treedictionary.com

If anyone else has a dictionary online based on tree biology please post
it for review.

BTW, Don Staples, what are you?

Your worse nightmare, someone actually trained in biology.

Beware a so called tree biologist who has never studied biology.

On Aug 8, 7:48 pm, Geoff-consulting forester in the US
wrote:
I'm a registered forester in Michigan, Pat.

Ignore this "symplastless" guy... he's a wanna-be forester.
Lacking some serious formal education, and thus professional background.

Myself and my colleagues have had to sort through the majority of his
posts on this forum.

I do not believe that the American ash is "history", but there is no
doubt the bug has done some serious damage to many of our hardwood
stands in the central lower peninsula (or "810" area code as I call it -
even though the actual problem extends far beyond that area code's
boundaries).

I live in Osceola county (just South of Cadillac) and it has been found
in my county, but not doing damage to the extent that it did in lower
Michigan. I have not yet seen it in a stand up here. I hope it
continues that way.

The biggest problem is vectoring. It cannot vector itself very far
(maybe a mile or two), but people can vector it very broad and very fast
via cars, hence the "moving firewood bugs me" campaign.

Once it gets to a place where there are any form of ash trees, it goes
on a feeding frenzy that is like no other.

I've sold timber in Defiance County, Ohio - which was also one of the
EAB problem areas, but timber in NW Ohio is scattered enough as to not
be a problem for EABs.

EAB resistance is more than likely a futile attempt. The best way to
eliminate the problem is to eliminate the hosts where populations of EAB
are found. This critter is not known to prey on other trees.Pat Kiewicz wrote:
symplastless said:
Product pusher. Bayer also claims to be a feeder of trees as well.

You'll learn to sing some other tune when these insects arrive in your
neck of the woods. They are a monumental catastrophe. I live near
ground zero. Millions of ash trees, in forests and back yards, have
been killed. The non-native emerald ash borer attacks healthy trees
as well as stressed trees. The skeletons of dead ash in nearby wildlands
eerie and obvious. All due to a surprisingly small green beetle.

Long term (maybe very long term indeed), breeding resistant strains of
North American ash and finding appropriate biological controls will be
needed or the American ash is history.

http://www.emeraldashborer.info/

Should I Replant or Save My Ash? (PowerPoint presentation):
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/file...ProtectAsh.htm

Options for 'do it yourself' homeowners unwilling to give up on their
ash trees:
http://www.emeraldashborer.info/files/E2955.pdf

(As for me, if I had to make a choice, I would the ash tree removed
and be done with it.)

Quote fromhttp://www.emeraldashborer.info/homeownerinfo.cfm

"IMPORTANT NOTE: Using insecticides to control EAB on ash trees is an
option in Michigan and the EAB quarantined counties in Ohio, Indiana
and Illinois. If your tree is located within an area designated for
eradication or suppression activities, it may be removed by regulatory
agencies even if it has been treated. In those cases where government-
ordered tree removals occur within the contiguous EAB quarantine
counties, consideration will be given to ash trees treated by certified
applicators utilizing methods and materials recommended by Michigan
State University. If your ash trees are located outside of this area in
Michigan, Indiana, Illinois or Ohio, using insecticides may not be
recommended. If you are not sure about the regulatory status of your
area or whether you should consider insecticides, please contact your
county Extension office."

I find Symplastless to have a good understanding of trees, theier
biology and appropriate care. To ignore him is to dismiss the
teachings of Alex Shigo- anyone claiming to understand or know about
trees without due regard for Shigo's work is one to be taken with a
pinch of salt.

"Treelady" wrote in message
oups.com...

I find Symplastless to have a good understanding of trees, theier
biology and appropriate care. To ignore him is to dismiss the
teachings of Alex Shigo- anyone claiming to understand or know about
trees without due regard for Shigo's work is one to be taken with a
pinch of salt.


The point you miss is it is Shigo's work, not Keslicks. A wannabe whose
education is a series of 2 and 3 day short courses. I wonder if he is even
a member of any national society of arborists.

On Aug 10, 5:10 am, "D. Staples" wrote:
"Treelady" wrote in message

oups.com...



I find Symplastless to have a good understanding oftrees, theier
biology and appropriate care. To ignore him is to dismiss the
teachings of Alex Shigo- anyone claiming to understand or know about
treeswithout due regard for Shigo's work is one to be taken with a
pinch of salt.

The point you miss is it is Shigo's work, not Keslicks. A wannabe whose
education is a series of 2 and 3 day short courses. I wonder if he is even
a member of any national society of arborists.

Not sure if I missed that point, thank you though. I have no idea of
Symplastless's route of education, nevertheless, if he is passing
along information tried and tested by Shigo and his cronies, well, no
point in dismissing it point in hand. People were not always receptive
to Shigo when he began spreading his findings, in fact, I recently
read an article where the writer claims that a man invited Shigo
outside to pyhsically settle the issue of flush cuts versus branch
(bark) collar cuts.
In the Uk to become a menber of of the Arboricultural Society is not a
matter of simply signing up. Belonging to a prestigious group can,
sometimes, mean little more than one is a member of a prestigious
group. Consulting a tree surgeon on a local council's recommendation
list does not guarantee quality, knowledge or good practice. I have
seen work carried out by such contractors, much of it is appalling.

The vicinity in which I live, and work, has many a treeman (mainly all
men, in fact I have never seen a woman working with trees around here)
who knows nothing about tree biology, little about the mechanics of
trees. I have seen all manner of short term thinking in terms of tree
care; Situations where a tree surgeon carries out pruning work that
lessens the lifespan of trees, unnecessary felling, ruthless pruning
etc. I receive phone calls from men looking for jobs who are barely
able to identify trees yet alone understand the nature of trees. That
Keslick makes an effort speaks well for him, in my book. Many of the
men with which I have worked study day release, or simply got their
tickets through two-three day courses. Self education has its place.
To gain a thorough education in tree work via studying at a national
institute is costly and time consuming- many a person, alas, has to
work in order to live, and their families cannot afford to support
them during three plus years of study. For people to spread the word
about good tree care is important for everyone in the industry, from
self learners to university educated people.
To me the difference between an arboriculturalist and a tree surgeon
is education. People have interfered with trees much longer than
people have officially, for want of a better word, studied trees.
I have seen tree work in the USA and the UK, and both countries have a
long way to go before finding a harmony between people and trees.
People have all manner of ideas about trees, and not all are
interested in trees beyond their intentions, which only feeds into
shoddy workmanship.

Don, how do you know that Keslick has such a meager education? Many
arborists in Mass. have a BS degree- or at the minimum a 2 year degree from
a reputable arborist school- such as one at U. Mass. Then, they have to get
a state license after taking a test.

I took the basic arborist course at U. Mass.- it was one of the best courses
I took there- we spent all our time walking the huge campus looking at sick
trees.

Joe


"D. Staples" wrote in message
...

"Treelady" wrote in message
oups.com...

I find Symplastless to have a good understanding of trees, theier
biology and appropriate care. To ignore him is to dismiss the
teachings of Alex Shigo- anyone claiming to understand or know about
trees without due regard for Shigo's work is one to be taken with a
pinch of salt.


The point you miss is it is Shigo's work, not Keslicks. A wannabe whose
education is a series of 2 and 3 day short courses. I wonder if he is
even a member of any national society of arborists.