On 18 Sep 2007 11:17:51 -0400, Jim Kingdon wrote:

While scarifying is an alternative, it is not necessary, any more than
stratification. It may influence germination, but in nature, it
doesn't happen that much, scarification that is. Nursery's stratify
black walnut, but seldom scarify, just as they stratify other seed.

In nature, scarification happens by a seed coat being gradually worn
away or a seed coat being cracked by freezing. Scarification is a way
to speed this up (with cutting a notch and hot water seeming to be the
preferred techniques). At least, that's what my book on propagating
woody plants says.

But each plant is different. And I don't know anything about black
walnut in particular.

Getting some instructions from someone who has propagated the
particular plant in question is recommended. Sure in nature, the
plant grows (somehow). But whether this happens quickly, or how many
seeds are needed for one seeding, or whether the seed passes through
the digestive tract of a bird or mammal in nature, or whether you can
keep a seed in the ground for months/years and recognize it as a
non-weed when it does come up, or whatever, make the garden situation
often different.

This link has a pamphlet written in 1910 on how to sprout black
walnuts.
http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/pr_histpubs...lers/sc013.asp

-dickm

On Sep 18, 11:17?am, Jim Kingdon wrote:
While scarifying is an alternative, it is not necessary, any more than
stratification. It may influence germination, but in nature, it
doesn't happen that much, scarification that is. Nursery's stratify
black walnut, but seldom scarify, just as they stratify other seed.

In nature, scarification happens by a seed coat being gradually worn
away or a seed coat being cracked by freezing. Scarification is a way
to speed this up (with cutting a notch and hot water seeming to be the
preferred techniques). At least, that's what my book on propagating
woody plants says.

But each plant is different. And I don't know anything about black
walnut in particular.

Getting some instructions from someone who has propagated the
particular plant in question is recommended. Sure in nature, the
plant grows (somehow). But whether this happens quickly, or how many
seeds are needed for one seeding, or whether the seed passes through
the digestive tract of a bird or mammal in nature, or whether you can
keep a seed in the ground for months/years and recognize it as a
non-weed when it does come up, or whatever, make the garden situation
often different.

There are no animals where black walnut grows that eat black walnut
seed whole... if ever you come upon a squirrel swallowing black walnut
seed whole you'd best don your steel safety cup and get the hell outa
there fast as your widdle stumps can run.

No need to back peddle and hide behind ignorance. There are plenty of
web sites with expert instructions about how to grow black walnut (I
read a few before posting just as a refresher, I'm not a walnut tree
maven but I've lots of hickory). Under how to plant all begin by
describing how to scarify, remove the husk and notch the shell. Then
they go on to describe about stratification, only necessary in warm
climes or with large wood stand/nut harvesting operations where seed
will be planted later. But this is about someone with a tree in his
yard who merely wants to grow a few seeds... someone who as yet
refuses to say where.

Do all of yoose go through life making mountains out of molehills,
what a bunch or wild exaggeraters. Just answer the question that's
asked, stop embellishing with the barroom lush BS... just makes you
appear very ignorant.

On Sep 18, 10:57?am, "Don Staples" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote in message

oups.com...





On Sep 16, 6:03?pm, Ann wrote:
Sheldon expounded:

"D. Staples" wrote:

Stratification helps,

I believe the word you want is 'scarification'.

No, it's stratification. That means to subject a seed to a cold
period before it germinates. If you weren't so busy trying to prove
people wrong you'd know this.

With black walnut it's important to scarify (really just removing the
husks), then plant the seeds, the natural exposure to winter while in
the ground is all the stratification that's necessary, come spring
they'll already be germinating... otherwise come spring all you'll
have is cold walnuts in the fridge of which most when planted then
will not germinate because they haven't been scarified, and then those
really should be planted in the fall, so you lose a year. All things
equal, without scarification most walnut seeds do not germinate (in
nature left to their own devices most do not germinate), most that
have been scarified do germinate. There is no need to artificially
stratify black walnut but it's important to scarify. What is most
important is to protect newly planted seed from critters otherwise
whatever you do is all for nought, squirrels will probably dig up
90pct. I would plant black walnut in individual pots that are well
protected from critters (a cold frame is good). Protect pots until
they can be field planted as two year old seedlings, and then they'll
still neeed protection from deer and other critters. You obviously
didn't read the OP carefully... my recommendation is more advantageous

While scarifying is an alternative, it is not necessary, any more than
stratification.

You're wrong, stratification is always necessary... scarifying is
not. But in the case at hand, a small backyard operation, it is
important to scarify to increase rate of germination. In most cases
stratification occurs naturally, but the OP refuses to say where. As
per usual usenet practice the regulars argue while the OP never
returns... this was probably yet another troll.

Sheldon expounded:

You're such a liar...

The sign that Sheldon has lost - he's calling me a liar.

Misinformation dribbled from your keyboard will always be corrected.
And as I've said time and time again, I don't use killfiles, never
have.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

symplastless wrote:
Who am I emailing the pages too?
Is pdf ok? Or jpeg?

To whomever you offered to mail them to.

But placing your reply at the top makes it poor reading for many,
difficult to reply to for some.

--
john mcwilliams

symplastless wrote:
Who am I emailing the pages too?
Is pdf ok? Or jpeg?

Sorry. Forgot the other part. JPEGs, PDFs, GIFs are a pretty safe bet.

--
John McWilliams

"Sheldon" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 18, 10:57?am, "Don Staples" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote in message



While scarifying is an alternative, it is not necessary, any more than
stratification.

You're wrong, stratification is always necessary... scarifying is
not. But in the case at hand, a small backyard operation, it is
important to scarify to increase rate of germination. In most cases
stratification occurs naturally, but the OP refuses to say where. As
per usual usenet practice the regulars argue while the OP never
returns... this was probably yet another troll.


You left part out.

While scarifying is an alternative, it is not necessary, any more than
stratification. It may influence germination, but in nature, it doesn't
happen that much, scarification that is. Nursery's stratify black walnut,
but seldom scarify, just as they stratify other seed. Particularly in
warmer climates.

From experience, not from the book, ran a black walnut operation in
Missouri, and a nursery worker/observer in Texas. Stratification is a
process used in nursery production, not in nature, natural effects of
climate do the same without impute from man, except in the deep south. Try
thinking about nursery processes instead of making judgment calls.

Eggs Zachtly wrote in news:6b0zkgmhwtu0
:

dicko said:

On 18 Sep 2007 11:17:51 -0400, Jim Kingdon wrote:

While scarifying is an alternative, it is not necessary, any more
than
stratification. It may influence germination, but in nature, it
doesn't happen that much, scarification that is. Nursery's stratify
black walnut, but seldom scarify, just as they stratify other seed.

In nature, scarification happens by a seed coat being gradually worn
away or a seed coat being cracked by freezing. Scarification is a way
to speed this up (with cutting a notch and hot water seeming to be the
preferred techniques). At least, that's what my book on propagating
woody plants says.

But each plant is different. And I don't know anything about black
walnut in particular.

Getting some instructions from someone who has propagated the
particular plant in question is recommended. Sure in nature, the
plant grows (somehow). But whether this happens quickly, or how many
seeds are needed for one seeding, or whether the seed passes through
the digestive tract of a bird or mammal in nature, or whether you can
keep a seed in the ground for months/years and recognize it as a
non-weed when it does come up, or whatever, make the garden situation
often different.

This link has a pamphlet written in 1910 on how to sprout black
walnuts.
http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/pr_histpubs...lers/sc013.asp


Now, just where do you expect us to get some black walnuts from 1910???


I was just cleaning out the basement for a family of packrats. If you
let me get to the back corner, I bet I can find some.

(The trashman told me that we've been putting out more trash in front of
this house than some *neighborhoods* have.

dicko said:

On 18 Sep 2007 11:17:51 -0400, Jim Kingdon wrote:

While scarifying is an alternative, it is not necessary, any more than
stratification. It may influence germination, but in nature, it
doesn't happen that much, scarification that is. Nursery's stratify
black walnut, but seldom scarify, just as they stratify other seed.

In nature, scarification happens by a seed coat being gradually worn
away or a seed coat being cracked by freezing. Scarification is a way
to speed this up (with cutting a notch and hot water seeming to be the
preferred techniques). At least, that's what my book on propagating
woody plants says.

But each plant is different. And I don't know anything about black
walnut in particular.

Getting some instructions from someone who has propagated the
particular plant in question is recommended. Sure in nature, the
plant grows (somehow). But whether this happens quickly, or how many
seeds are needed for one seeding, or whether the seed passes through
the digestive tract of a bird or mammal in nature, or whether you can
keep a seed in the ground for months/years and recognize it as a
non-weed when it does come up, or whatever, make the garden situation
often different.

This link has a pamphlet written in 1910 on how to sprout black
walnuts.
http://www.oznet.ksu.edu/pr_histpubs...lers/sc013.asp


Now, just where do you expect us to get some black walnuts from 1910???

--

Eggs

-I know it sounds like I'm in denial, but I'm not.

On Sep 19, 2:57?pm, "Don Staples" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote in message

oups.com...

On Sep 18, 10:57?am, "Don Staples" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote in message

While scarifying is an alternative, it is not necessary, any more than
stratification.

You're wrong, stratification is always necessary... scarifying is
not. But in the case at hand, a small backyard operation, it is
important to scarify to increase rate of germination. In most cases
stratification occurs naturally, but the OP refuses to say where. As
per usual usenet practice the regulars argue while the OP never
returns... this was probably yet another troll.

You left part out.

While scarifying is an alternative, it is not necessary, any more than
stratification. It may influence germination, but in nature, it doesn't
happen that much, scarification that is. Nursery's stratify black walnut,
but seldom scarify, just as they stratify other seed. Particularly in
warmer climates.

From experience, not from the book, ran a black walnut operation in
Missouri, and a nursery worker/observer in Texas. Stratification is a
process used in nursery production, not in nature, natural effects of
climate do the same without impute from man, except in the deep south. Try
thinking about nursery processes instead of making judgment calls.

Sorry, but some things are best relied upon from the book.

Not many care what one claims to have done in the past that they can't
prove anymore than barrroom anecdotal drivel... folks can and do claim
all sorts of miraculous feats on teh net but unless they can offer
actual proof it's just liquor tawkin'. All the sites from educational
institutions that I read say that black walnut must be stratified to
germinate... I've never done it myself but I believe edu sites. I
ain't gonna spoon feed yoose on this one, look it up your ownselfs. I
don't like walnuts anyways, pistachio rulz!

"Sheldon" wrote in message
oups.com...
On Sep 19, 2:57?pm, "Don Staples" wrote:
"Sheldon" wrote in message

oups.com...

Sorry, but some things are best relied upon from the book.

Not many care what one claims to have done in the past that they can't
prove anymore than barrroom anecdotal drivel... folks can and do claim
all sorts of miraculous feats on teh net but unless they can offer
actual proof it's just liquor tawkin'. All the sites from educational
institutions that I read say that black walnut must be stratified to
germinate... I've never done it myself but I believe edu sites. I
ain't gonna spoon feed yoose on this one, look it up your ownselfs. I
don't like walnuts anyways, pistachio rulz!

Sorry, and your wrong. I have been a forester for 40 years. The process is
the same, you said scarification is to remove the husk, wrong, it is to
reduce the thickness of the shell. Moisture and freezing does that in
nature, stratification as well. But in a nursery, you will note the
following phrase, stratification is necessary in the deep south.

I don't need to look it up, junior, I live it.

"D. Staples" wrote:

[....]

Sorry, and your wrong.

Sorry, and you are wrong.
or
Sorry, and you're wrong.

when compelled to argue with the know it all guy-0-mite
it is important not to allow your point to be negated or
reduced in it's effectiveness with improper word utilization.

be precise and make use of accepted standards.

scarification
1: the act or process of scarifying

scarifying
1: to make scratches or small cuts in (as the skin) scarify an area for vaccination
2: to lacerate the feelings of
3: to break up and loosen the surface of (as a field or road)
4: to cut or soften the wall of (a hard seed) to hasten germination


I have been a forester for 40 years. The process is
the same, you said scarification is to remove the husk, wrong, it is to
reduce the thickness of the shell. Moisture and freezing does that in
nature, stratification as well. But in a nursery, you will note the
following phrase, stratification is necessary in the deep south.

I don't need to look it up, junior, I live it.

Jim wrote:


when compelled to argue with the know it all guy-0-mite
it is important not to allow your point to be negated or
reduced in it's effectiveness with improper word utilization.

Huh?? "it's"?

--

John McWilliams

A very good book for you to get is this:
BTW I have a copy and I could fax you the pages on walnuts if you send me
your fax number to my email address.

"Seeds of woody plants in the United States"
Forest Service Handbook No. 450 1989
883 Pages

--
Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.

"Al" wrote in message
news:TzfHi.2128$603.952@trndny02...


I have a Black Walnut Tree that is growing wild in my yard. The tree has
seed/nut on it. I would like to use the nuts to grow other Black Walnut
trees on my property. How do I do this?

Al

John McWilliams wrote:

Jim wrote:


when compelled to argue with the know it all guy-0-mite
it is important not to allow your point to be negated or
reduced in it's effectiveness with improper word utilization.

Huh?? "it's"?



John McWilliams, thank you for your assistance in making
the point. there's just not that many helpful people around
these days.