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Old 22-10-2007, 10:38 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats

To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
(Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
on or jump onto? Or small metal bird baths placed on that mulch?

Nothing bad has happened to our knowledge. But a neighbor's cat
returned with a serious limp in one of the front leg. She'll heal, but
this got him and me talking that while there isn't much we can do about
the outside world, we should cat proofing our yards more consciously.

Exhibit 1: My wife has created about a 60 feet long strip of wooden
mulch along the fence because grass doesn't grow easily here. Cats love
to walk on the mulch, even jump on it from the fence. (As mentioned, it
is Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot.)

Now, I tried walking barefoot on it for a few feet and realized it
wasn't like normal ground. You have thousands of wood chips, some with
sharp edges, all at random angle. I felt a lot of sharp points and
edges. Walking gently is one thing, but if a cat ran or, worse, jumped
from a fence, she could land on a sharp chip the wrong way and get
hurt?

Exhibit 2: We have an 18" heavy iron bird bath. It looks pretty but my
fear is it easy to trip. Especially when it is sitting on an uneven
ground like the mulch or even grass. Cats are naturally curious, this
is just the roght height for them to try playing or climbing, and
having it fall on them.

Would appreciate any experience you have guys may have here about
saftey of cats running/jumping on wood chips, and playing near bird
baths.

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Old 22-10-2007, 11:34 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats


"Newbie" wrote in message
...
To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
(Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
on or jump onto? Or small metal bird baths placed on that mulch?

Nothing bad has happened to our knowledge. But a neighbor's cat
returned with a serious limp in one of the front leg. She'll heal, but
this got him and me talking that while there isn't much we can do about
the outside world, we should cat proofing our yards more consciously.

Exhibit 1: My wife has created about a 60 feet long strip of wooden
mulch along the fence because grass doesn't grow easily here. Cats love
to walk on the mulch, even jump on it from the fence. (As mentioned, it
is Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot.)

Now, I tried walking barefoot on it for a few feet and realized it
wasn't like normal ground. You have thousands of wood chips, some with
sharp edges, all at random angle. I felt a lot of sharp points and
edges. Walking gently is one thing, but if a cat ran or, worse, jumped
from a fence, she could land on a sharp chip the wrong way and get
hurt?

Exhibit 2: We have an 18" heavy iron bird bath. It looks pretty but my
fear is it easy to trip. Especially when it is sitting on an uneven
ground like the mulch or even grass. Cats are naturally curious, this
is just the roght height for them to try playing or climbing, and
having it fall on them.

Would appreciate any experience you have guys may have here about
saftey of cats running/jumping on wood chips, and playing near bird
baths.


In general, there is no way one can protect an "outside" cat from all the
hazards he might encounter.....Even if you keep him inside, he can get hurt
a thousand different ways right in your own home or apartment.....At some
point, you just have to bank on the animal's common sense and inherited
ability to keep out of trouble. Of my four cats, only one leaves the
property from time to time, but I worry about all four of them, and usually
check up on them every morning when I awake to make sure they are all
present and accounted for. One likes to sleep on the roof in the Summertime,
and should he fall off of the South side of the house, he would fall two
stories onto hard ground. And there are always cars and hawks and big
raccoons and teenagers with BB guns and sadistic AH'd with real
guns.......But millions of little furry creatures die miserable deaths every
year in the wild.....It's a cruel world..... And my cats have already lived
several years in comfort and the lap of luxury, so even if I were to lose
one now, I shouldn't be sorry for owning them. They are a lot better off
than they would have been had God had his way with them and I hadn't come
along.....


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Old 23-10-2007, 12:07 AM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats

Newbie wrote:
To make a long story short...


snipped to make a long story even shorter

Exhibit 1: My wife has created about a 60 feet long strip of wooden
mulch along the fence because grass doesn't grow easily here. Cats love
to walk on the mulch, even jump on it from the fence. (As mentioned, it
is Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot.)


If you want to make your cats' lives better and safer (and give
yourselves less to worry about in the bargain) keep them indoors.


Now, I tried walking barefoot on it for a few feet and realized it
wasn't like normal ground. You have thousands of wood chips, some with
sharp edges, all at random angle. I felt a lot of sharp points and
edges. Walking gently is one thing, but if a cat ran or, worse, jumped
from a fence, she could land on a sharp chip the wrong way and get
hurt?


Cats are clever. They wont persist at something that hurts. Very wise,
unlike many of us higher animals, obviously. Either don't use the mulch
or keep the cats indoors. If neither of those are viable options, stop
worrying. As you said earlier, "they love to walk on the mulch, even
jump on it from the fence."


Exhibit 2: We have an 18" heavy iron bird bath. It looks pretty but my
fear is it easy to trip. Especially when it is sitting on an uneven
ground like the mulch or even grass. Cats are naturally curious, this
is just the roght height for them to try playing or climbing, and
having it fall on them.


I'm concerned about the safety of the birds in such close proximity to
the cats.

If the birdbath is so unstable you're concerned about the cats being
injured by it:
1. don't put it up -- find another way to leave water out for the birds, or
2. keep the cats indoors
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Old 23-10-2007, 12:12 AM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats

No to the woodchips bothering the cat. His paws and his weight are not the
same as your feet and your weight. The fact that you can see cats like
walking in it (and using it for a literbox, too, no doubt) is a good
indication that cats are fine with it.

No to putting a heavy, unstable ANYTHING on top of woodchips. Go to ground
level, put down a paving tile, level it, put the birdbath on top and rake
woodchips around it. If it still tips easily, get a plastic one or risk
finding a cat with its brains bashed out someday.

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Old 23-10-2007, 12:21 AM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats

"Newbie" wrote in message
...
To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
(Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
on or jump onto? Or small metal bird baths placed on that mulch?

Nothing bad has happened to our knowledge. But a neighbor's cat
returned with a serious limp in one of the front leg. She'll heal, but
this got him and me talking that while there isn't much we can do about
the outside world, we should cat proofing our yards more consciously.


OH MY GOD.

Do me a favor. Tomorrow morning, when you're sober, post an apology for that
question, OK?




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Old 23-10-2007, 12:39 AM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats

William Graham wrote:

: In general, there is no way one can protect an "outside" cat from all the
: hazards he might encounter.....Even if you keep him inside, he can get hurt
: a thousand different ways right in your own home or apartment.....At some
: point, you just have to bank on the animal's common sense and inherited
: ability to keep out of trouble. Of my four cats, only one leaves the
: property from time to time, but I worry about all four of them, and usually
: check up on them every morning when I awake to make sure they are all
: present and accounted for. One likes to sleep on the roof in the Summertime,
: and should he fall off of the South side of the house, he would fall two
: stories onto hard ground. And there are always cars and hawks and big
: raccoons and teenagers with BB guns and sadistic AH'd with real
: guns.......But millions of little furry creatures die miserable deaths every
: year in the wild.....It's a cruel world..... And my cats have already lived
: several years in comfort and the lap of luxury, so even if I were to lose
: one now, I shouldn't be sorry for owning them. They are a lot better off
: than they would have been had God had his way with them and I hadn't come
: along.....

I appreciate your thoughts. Nice, educating reading.
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Old 23-10-2007, 12:45 AM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats

Pennyaline wrote:

: I'm concerned about the safety of the birds in such close proximity to
: the cats.

We call it a birdbath because that's what the shop called it, but birds
don't seem to agree and it is merely a decoration. Birds do like to eat
in our yard, but so far our water has not interested them. Maybe there
are other better sources of water nearby.

There are many cats in the neighborhood, and many birds too. With a
little common sense it seems to be working out. Cats are usually well
fed and content. Bird feeders are high, near wires and tree branches
which they use as staging area. I try not to have any thing near the
feeder that would hide cats.
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Old 23-10-2007, 01:04 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats

To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
(Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
on or jump onto?


Good question.

If a tree had a great deal of injections and systemics applid there is a
good chance that thge chemacls may be stored in the wood. Trees load, store
and then use.

What I use at clients properties is composted tree trimmings. This consist
of wood chips, leaves and needles. I let them compost for at least one
year. NOT FRESH CHIPS. I do not find myself recommending to clients to buy
bags of mulch. What ever you use here are some helpful tips in proper
mulching.

Proper Mulching - http://home.ccil.org/~treeman/sub3.html
and
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/M/ Look up "Mulch"

Here are two links addressing some of the chemistry of mulch.

Troubles in the Rhizosphere
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/RHIZO.html

A Touch of Chemistry
http://www.treedictionary.com/DICT2003/shigo/CHEM.html

Sincerely,
John A. Keslick, Jr.
Consulting Arborist
http://home.ccil.org/~treeman
and www.treedictionary.com
Beware of so-called tree experts who do not understand tree biology.
Storms, fires, floods, earthquakes, and volcanic eruptions keep reminding us
that we are not the boss.


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Old 23-10-2007, 04:53 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats

On Oct 22, 4:38 pm, Newbie wrote:
To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
(Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
on or jump onto? Or small metal bird baths placed on that mulch?

Nothing bad has happened to our knowledge. But a neighbor's cat
returned with a serious limp in one of the front leg. She'll heal, but
this got him and me talking that while there isn't much we can do about
the outside world, we should cat proofing our yards more consciously.

Exhibit 1: My wife has created about a 60 feet long strip of wooden
mulch along the fence because grass doesn't grow easily here. Cats love
to walk on the mulch, even jump on it from the fence. (As mentioned, it
is Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot.)

Now, I tried walking barefoot on it for a few feet and realized it
wasn't like normal ground. You have thousands of wood chips, some with
sharp edges, all at random angle. I felt a lot of sharp points and
edges. Walking gently is one thing, but if a cat ran or, worse, jumped
from a fence, she could land on a sharp chip the wrong way and get
hurt?

Exhibit 2: We have an 18" heavy iron bird bath. It looks pretty but my
fear is it easy to trip. Especially when it is sitting on an uneven
ground like the mulch or even grass. Cats are naturally curious, this
is just the roght height for them to try playing or climbing, and
having it fall on them.

Would appreciate any experience you have guys may have here about
saftey of cats running/jumping on wood chips, and playing near bird
baths.


This has GOT to be a troll. No one that worried about cats' safety
would be letting them out to travel the neighborhood.

Jo Ann

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Old 23-10-2007, 09:24 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats


"Jo Ann" wrote in message
ups.com...
On Oct 22, 4:38 pm, Newbie wrote:
To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
(Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
on or jump onto? Or small metal bird baths placed on that mulch?

Nothing bad has happened to our knowledge. But a neighbor's cat
returned with a serious limp in one of the front leg. She'll heal, but
this got him and me talking that while there isn't much we can do about
the outside world, we should cat proofing our yards more consciously.

Exhibit 1: My wife has created about a 60 feet long strip of wooden
mulch along the fence because grass doesn't grow easily here. Cats love
to walk on the mulch, even jump on it from the fence. (As mentioned, it
is Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot.)

Now, I tried walking barefoot on it for a few feet and realized it
wasn't like normal ground. You have thousands of wood chips, some with
sharp edges, all at random angle. I felt a lot of sharp points and
edges. Walking gently is one thing, but if a cat ran or, worse, jumped
from a fence, she could land on a sharp chip the wrong way and get
hurt?

Exhibit 2: We have an 18" heavy iron bird bath. It looks pretty but my
fear is it easy to trip. Especially when it is sitting on an uneven
ground like the mulch or even grass. Cats are naturally curious, this
is just the roght height for them to try playing or climbing, and
having it fall on them.

Would appreciate any experience you have guys may have here about
saftey of cats running/jumping on wood chips, and playing near bird
baths.


This has GOT to be a troll. No one that worried about cats' safety
would be letting them out to travel the neighborhood.

Jo Ann

If a cat is "fixed: it will seldom travel off of your property....We live on
a dead end street, and one of our cats came from a neighbor (when they got a
dog) she still goes back there to visit once in a while, and takes her buddy
B-K with her, but other than that, all of our cats spend all of their time
on the property. So, other than using the ground for a cat box, they are
really inside cats.....




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Old 23-10-2007, 11:28 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats

William Graham wrote:
If a cat is "fixed: it will seldom travel off of your property....We live on
a dead end street, and one of our cats came from a neighbor (when they got a
dog) she still goes back there to visit once in a while, and takes her buddy
B-K with her, but other than that, all of our cats spend all of their time
on the property. So, other than using the ground for a cat box, they are
really inside cats.....


Spayed and neutered cats roam just as much as intact cats do. The
difference is that they don't roam looking to mate and don't contribute
to the cat overpopulation problem. They are just as much at risk of
getting lost, being killed by traffic, getting injured or killed by
other animals, exposure and reexposure to diseases communicable to other
animals AND humans, becoming stranded outdoors in bad weather, eating
poisoned baits, etc. They will return to anyplace they find food, so
don't pat yourself on the back about your kitty's fidelity. She may
vanish forever at any moment, and then who will you blame? Indoor cats
that go outside are not indoor cats. Keep your cats inside!
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Old 24-10-2007, 12:18 AM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats

"Newbie" wrote in message
...
To make a long story short, I am worrying about whether wood mulch
(Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot to be precise) is safe for cats to run
on or jump onto? Or small metal bird baths placed on that mulch?

Nothing bad has happened to our knowledge. But a neighbor's cat
returned with a serious limp in one of the front leg. She'll heal, but
this got him and me talking that while there isn't much we can do about
the outside world, we should cat proofing our yards more consciously.

Exhibit 1: My wife has created about a 60 feet long strip of wooden
mulch along the fence because grass doesn't grow easily here. Cats love
to walk on the mulch, even jump on it from the fence. (As mentioned, it
is Cedar Nuggets from Home Depot.)

Now, I tried walking barefoot on it for a few feet and realized it
wasn't like normal ground. You have thousands of wood chips, some with
sharp edges, all at random angle. I felt a lot of sharp points and
edges. Walking gently is one thing, but if a cat ran or, worse, jumped
from a fence, she could land on a sharp chip the wrong way and get
hurt?

Exhibit 2: We have an 18" heavy iron bird bath. It looks pretty but my
fear is it easy to trip. Especially when it is sitting on an uneven
ground like the mulch or even grass. Cats are naturally curious, this
is just the roght height for them to try playing or climbing, and
having it fall on them.

Would appreciate any experience you have guys may have here about
saftey of cats running/jumping on wood chips, and playing near bird
baths.


If the birdbath is not level, or whatever is setting on is not substantive,
is the cause. Fix that.

Dave


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Old 24-10-2007, 05:36 AM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats


"Pennyaline" wrote in message
...
William Graham wrote:
If a cat is "fixed: it will seldom travel off of your property....We live
on a dead end street, and one of our cats came from a neighbor (when they
got a dog) she still goes back there to visit once in a while, and takes
her buddy B-K with her, but other than that, all of our cats spend all of
their time on the property. So, other than using the ground for a cat
box, they are really inside cats.....


Spayed and neutered cats roam just as much as intact cats do. The
difference is that they don't roam looking to mate and don't contribute to
the cat overpopulation problem. They are just as much at risk of getting
lost, being killed by traffic, getting injured or killed by other animals,
exposure and reexposure to diseases communicable to other animals AND
humans, becoming stranded outdoors in bad weather, eating poisoned baits,
etc. They will return to anyplace they find food, so don't pat yourself on
the back about your kitty's fidelity. She may vanish forever at any
moment, and then who will you blame? Indoor cats that go outside are not
indoor cats. Keep your cats inside!


The above has NOT been my experience, and I am 72 years old and have had
many cats during my life....I have four of them right now....two males (one
fixed, and one not) and two fixed females. Even the unfixed male never went
more than two blocks away, and now, at about 6 years old, he seldom leaves
the property. Three of my four cats were outside cats when I got them, and
the other one soon learned to appreciate being able to go out on the deck
and sun herself.....I wouldn't have an inside cat unless I lived in a very
hazardous place, like a city apartment, and then I would get one only as a
kitten, and train him/her from birth to live inside.....Even then, every
inside cat I have known lives to go outside, and runs out every chance they
get. - That should tell you something right there........


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Old 24-10-2007, 02:50 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats

William Graham wrote:
The above has NOT been my experience, and I am 72 years old and have had
many cats during my life


You know, when my mother had the first traffic accident in which she was
truly at fault, she insisted to the victim, to the police, to the judge
and to us that she couldn't POSSIBLY have done anything wrong. She
explained ad nauseum that her driving was flawless, because she had been
driving for 55 years and had so much experience. It was all the other
person's fault, she rationalized, because the victim had only been
driving for twelve years and was clearly inept for that reason. She
denied blame then and still does to this day. She still will not see
that using her age as a defense was one of her biggest missteps in that
case.


....I have four of them right now....two males (one
fixed, and one not) and two fixed females. Even the unfixed male never went
more than two blocks away, and now, at about 6 years old, he seldom leaves
the property. Three of my four cats were outside cats when I got them, and
the other one soon learned to appreciate being able to go out on the deck
and sun herself.....I wouldn't have an inside cat unless I lived in a very
hazardous place, like a city apartment, and then I would get one only as a
kitten, and train him/her from birth to live inside.....Even then, every
inside cat I have known lives to go outside, and runs out every chance they
get. - That should tell you something right there........


Don't try to use the number of cats you have right now and the statement
you've had many cats during your life as justification. It's lame, and
comical.

He never went more than two blocks away? How far does a cat have to go
to be lost, injured or killed. Every cat, even the best "trained" cat is
motivated by prey drive. A fixed well-fed cat will still chase prey just
to chase it.

But I can see there's no reasoning with you about this.
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Old 24-10-2007, 09:49 PM posted to alt.cats,alt.pets.cats,rec.pets.cats.health+behav,rec.gardens
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Default Wooden mulch, bird baths, cats

"William Graham" wrote in message
. ..

kitten, and train him/her from birth to live inside.....Even then, every
inside cat I have known lives to go outside, and runs out every chance
they get. - That should tell you something right there........


Obviously you don't know my cats. I can leave doors and windows wide open
and none of them will go anywhere near the scary "out".

Hugs,

CatNipped




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