This is a little exerpt from an article written by Kim Flottum about
the First National Beekeeper's Conference held in Sacramento this past
January. If any of you have seen the 60 Minutes piece on CCD, you'll
be familiar with David Hackenburg, the beekeeper credited with first
reporting what turned out to be Colony Collapse Disorder last year
(please pardon any typos, this article isn't online yet and I had to
retype it, but it is well worth my time if you all learn something
from it):

Pesticides, CCD:

Speaking of new problems, Colony Collapse Disorder and associated
problems were high on everybody's list of must-see.

It started with pesticides aplenty here, and even if they aren't the
CCD curse, they are killing bees faster than beekeepers can make them.

David Mendes, a 7,000 colony, Massachusetts/Florida
beekeeper/pollinator talked about pesticides in the environments his
bees must visit when pollinating crops and how these chemicals may be
contributing to his problems...and his problems have been significant.
His first comment was that pesticides aren't tested by the EPA but
rather by the Chemical companies that make them, and then the EPA
approves them for use, or not. Any guesses on how those results come
out?

He talked about not only the financial but emotional stess that losing
60 - 80% of your bees has on beekeepers....anything more than 50% in a
year and it gets real, real hard to recover. Two years in a row and
you could be looking for a job as a greeter at Wal-Mart, he said.

David Hackenburg, the first to report Colony Collapse Disorder last
year (but not the first to have it, certainly), first told about the
2000 or so colonies he had moved to Florida in early January, but
within a couple of weeks 80% were gone with the same symptoms of CCD
he saw in his bees last year. He quoted Jerry Hayes, the State Apiary
Inspector from Florida (where CCD is common) who said that beekeeping
was the ugly stepchild of American agriculture". How so? The
government has made lots of promises so far Hackenberg said...but so
far....not much has happened.

He also mentioned pesticides, specifically Imadaclprid, and how it was
used everywhere, by everybody. But he went on, and I quote..."Big Ag
has control of the USDA from the Secretary right on down to almost
thel owest guys on the totem pole." What to do? Get a hold of your
congress folks and get them to get some action...get the money out,
get control of the chemicals.

David Ellingson, another commercial beekeeper and beeswax processor
talked about doing everything the way he had been doing things... and
nothing was working. It used to be, when a colony dies, air it out
and reuse it....now, that new colony will die, too. His pesticide
comment was that farmers are now 'stacking' pesticides...that is,
combining insecticides, herbicides and fungicides in a single trip
across the field instead of three trips. The problem? When combined
these chemical blends become a thousand times more toxic than when
used alone. A thousand times more toxic. Imagine.

Gene Brandi, a 2000 colony commercial beekeeper talked about one
specific pesticide problem. Spraying fungicides on blooming plants.
Generally these compounds aren't harmful to honeybees....adult honey
bees, that is, which is all the EPA makes the chemical companies test
(remember who does the tests, and who approves the results).
Meanwhile, these non-adult-harming compounds that are brought back to
the hive are being fed to baby bees. Would you feed fungicides to
your children? No? Neither would I but we are routinely letting
honey bees do just that. These chemicals come back to hives on the
pollen the bees collect, then store, then feed to their children. This
just screams for long term studies on the effects of these chemicals
on all the inhabitants in the hive over several generations....the
question is, do these chemicals, when fed to brood, affect the adults
the brood eventually becomes? Right now absolutely nobody knows.
Nobody.

Scientists still don't know for sure what causes CCD, and it may be
pesticides are the problem pure and simple (well, pesticides aren't
pure or simple, are they?). Certainly the stress that constant
exposure to pesticides exerts on the honey bee population, and the
strain this stress puts on a honey bee's immune system is one of the
links in the CCD chain.

As part of this session that list of chemicals I talked about last
month that was found in wax, brood, adult bees, honey and pollen was
shown again, and again it started at the ceiling, ran down the wall,
down the center isle (dodging the many people sitting on the floor),
and headed out the door. The list is so scary that it makes me want
to sit on the floor. We are surely killing bees by the way we are
keeping bees.
--
Ann, gardening in Zone 6a
South of Boston, Massachusetts
e-mail address is not checked
******************************

In article ,
Ann wrote:

This is a little exerpt from an article written by Kim Flottum about
the First National Beekeeper's Conference held in Sacramento this past
January. If any of you have seen the 60 Minutes piece on CCD, you'll
be familiar with David Hackenburg, the beekeeper credited with first
reporting what turned out to be Colony Collapse Disorder last year
(please pardon any typos, this article isn't online yet and I had to
retype it, but it is well worth my time if you all learn something
from it):

Pesticides, CCD:

Speaking of new problems, Colony Collapse Disorder and associated
problems were high on everybody's list of must-see.

It started with pesticides aplenty here, and even if they aren't the
CCD curse, they are killing bees faster than beekeepers can make them.

David Mendes, a 7,000 colony, Massachusetts/Florida
beekeeper/pollinator talked about pesticides in the environments his
bees must visit when pollinating crops and how these chemicals may be
contributing to his problems...and his problems have been significant.
His first comment was that pesticides aren't tested by the EPA but
rather by the Chemical companies that make them, and then the EPA
approves them for use, or not. Any guesses on how those results come
out?

He talked about not only the financial but emotional stess that losing
60 - 80% of your bees has on beekeepers....anything more than 50% in a
year and it gets real, real hard to recover. Two years in a row and
you could be looking for a job as a greeter at Wal-Mart, he said.

David Hackenburg, the first to report Colony Collapse Disorder last
year (but not the first to have it, certainly), first told about the
2000 or so colonies he had moved to Florida in early January, but
within a couple of weeks 80% were gone with the same symptoms of CCD
he saw in his bees last year. He quoted Jerry Hayes, the State Apiary
Inspector from Florida (where CCD is common) who said that beekeeping
was the ugly stepchild of American agriculture". How so? The
government has made lots of promises so far Hackenberg said...but so
far....not much has happened.

He also mentioned pesticides, specifically Imadaclprid, and how it was
used everywhere, by everybody. But he went on, and I quote..."Big Ag
has control of the USDA from the Secretary right on down to almost
thel owest guys on the totem pole." What to do? Get a hold of your
congress folks and get them to get some action...get the money out,
get control of the chemicals.

David Ellingson, another commercial beekeeper and beeswax processor
talked about doing everything the way he had been doing things... and
nothing was working. It used to be, when a colony dies, air it out
and reuse it....now, that new colony will die, too. His pesticide
comment was that farmers are now 'stacking' pesticides...that is,
combining insecticides, herbicides and fungicides in a single trip
across the field instead of three trips. The problem? When combined
these chemical blends become a thousand times more toxic than when
used alone. A thousand times more toxic. Imagine.

This is the synergistic effect that they have in your body, too.

http://www.chemicalbodyburden.org/


Gene Brandi, a 2000 colony commercial beekeeper talked about one
specific pesticide problem. Spraying fungicides on blooming plants.
Generally these compounds aren't harmful to honeybees....adult honey
bees, that is, which is all the EPA makes the chemical companies test
(remember who does the tests, and who approves the results).
Meanwhile, these non-adult-harming compounds that are brought back to
the hive are being fed to baby bees. Would you feed fungicides to
your children? No? Neither would I but we are routinely letting
honey bees do just that. These chemicals come back to hives on the
pollen the bees collect, then store, then feed to their children. This
just screams for long term studies on the effects of these chemicals
on all the inhabitants in the hive over several generations....the
question is, do these chemicals, when fed to brood, affect the adults
the brood eventually becomes? Right now absolutely nobody knows.
Nobody.


Same deal with us. As long as we can't prove it's bad, we have to keep
drinking and eating it. They test for one chemical at a time. Nobody
studies chemical interaction. It's called synergy when the sum is more
than the parts.

Scientists still don't know for sure what causes CCD, and it may be
pesticides are the problem pure and simple (well, pesticides aren't
pure or simple, are they?). Certainly the stress that constant
exposure to pesticides exerts on the honey bee population, and the
strain this stress puts on a honey bee's immune system is one of the
links in the CCD chain.

As part of this session that list of chemicals I talked about last
month that was found in wax, brood, adult bees, honey and pollen was
shown again, and again it started at the ceiling, ran down the wall,
down the center isle (dodging the many people sitting on the floor),
and headed out the door. The list is so scary that it makes me want
to sit on the floor. We are surely killing bees by the way we are
keeping bees.

And ourselves through this chemical pollution.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:30:02 -0400, Ann wrote:

This is a little exerpt from an article written by Kim Flottum about
the First National Beekeeper's Conference held in Sacramento this past
January. If any of you have seen the 60 Minutes piece on CCD, you'll
be familiar with David Hackenburg, the beekeeper credited with first
reporting what turned out to be Colony Collapse Disorder last year
(please pardon any typos, this article isn't online yet and I had to
retype it, but it is well worth my time if you all learn something
from it):

Damn girl, you put out some good effort here and it *was* worth your
time. THis is most certainly not OT...without them we'll bee reduced
to eating grasses or having sex by hand with our veggies and all.

It also ****es me off yet one more time........feh, we'll not go there.

Interesting aside...today I caught part of Natalie Allen's show on The
Weather Channel and she and Dr. CUllen were talking about how the
evangelicals were coming onboard about Earth Issues in that many of the
disgusting things....mercury specifically really amounted to a pro-life
issue. Thinking about this, this is a good thing. (relax, I'm not
getting political....)
Your not going to talk about George Bush's micromanagement of the EPA?
Well if the air is OK at Ground Zero, I guess everything is hunky dory,
NOT.

Thanks, Ann


Charlie
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:16:47 -0700, Billy wrote:


Same deal with us. As long as we can't prove it's bad, we have to keep
drinking and eating it. They test for one chemical at a time. Nobody
studies chemical interaction. It's called synergy when the sum is more
than the parts.

Exactly. This is why you get good results with prunella and
lisoprinil.

Aside: What about the effects that people may be experiencing from
drug/herbal interactions drinking unfiltered municipal water? You know
what is getting ****ed down the drain and then being uptaken in the
water supply. I wonder......if one waters their garden with drug
contaminated water, does that transfer to what we are eating? And to
what level. So many questions, so few answers......but I have my
suspicions.

I don't know. Just questioning.

Charlie

I dunno. I hear there is estrogen in our water and, my god, you should
see our squirrels.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Sun, 09 Mar 2008 22:20:42 -0700, Billy wrote:


Interesting aside...today I caught part of Natalie Allen's show on The
Weather Channel and she and Dr. CUllen were talking about how the
evangelicals were coming onboard about Earth Issues in that many of the
disgusting things....mercury specifically really amounted to a pro-life
issue. Thinking about this, this is a good thing. (relax, I'm not
getting political....)

Your not going to talk about George Bush's micromanagement of the EPA?
Well if the air is OK at Ground Zero, I guess everything is hunky dory,
NOT.

Goddammit Billy, I'm gonna beat you like a rented mule.

Ease up on Ann.

Charlie

Did you hear that in Michael Moore's movie, Sicko, a bunch of 9/11
survivors couldn't get treatment in the US, so Moore took them to Cuba,
where they are lousey with doctors, and they all got treated free of
charge?

I'm hoping Netflix is finally going to send it this week.

Viva Fidel

Ann who?
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

In article
,
Billy wrote:


Same deal with us. As long as we can't prove it's bad, we have to keep
drinking and eating it. They test for one chemical at a time. Nobody
studies chemical interaction. It's called synergy when the sum is more
than the parts.

Scientists still don't know for sure what causes CCD, and it may be
pesticides are the problem pure and simple (well, pesticides aren't
pure or simple, are they?). Certainly the stress that constant
exposure to pesticides exerts on the honey bee population, and the
strain this stress puts on a honey bee's immune system is one of the
links in the CCD chain.

As part of this session that list of chemicals I talked about last
month that was found in wax, brood, adult bees, honey and pollen was
shown again, and again it started at the ceiling, ran down the wall,
down the center isle (dodging the many people sitting on the floor),
and headed out the door. The list is so scary that it makes me want
to sit on the floor. We are surely killing bees by the way we are
keeping bees.

And ourselves through this chemical pollution.

.......................

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/shinelab/research/PPCP.htm


Project Goals

"The overarching goal of this research project is to develop a ranking
system for PPCPs that quantifies the potential relative risk that
compounds pose to human health and ecological health. We will use this
relative ranking process to narrow the list of PPCPs to a more
manageable subset of priority PPCPs, those that likely pose the greatest
potential risk. These high risk PPCPs will be identified as requiring
additional research into their fate and transport, ecotoxicolgy, and
human toxicology."

--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

In article
,
Bill wrote:

In article
,
Billy wrote:


Same deal with us. As long as we can't prove it's bad, we have to keep
drinking and eating it. They test for one chemical at a time. Nobody
studies chemical interaction. It's called synergy when the sum is more
than the parts.

Scientists still don't know for sure what causes CCD, and it may be
pesticides are the problem pure and simple (well, pesticides aren't
pure or simple, are they?). Certainly the stress that constant
exposure to pesticides exerts on the honey bee population, and the
strain this stress puts on a honey bee's immune system is one of the
links in the CCD chain.

As part of this session that list of chemicals I talked about last
month that was found in wax, brood, adult bees, honey and pollen was
shown again, and again it started at the ceiling, ran down the wall,
down the center isle (dodging the many people sitting on the floor),
and headed out the door. The list is so scary that it makes me want
to sit on the floor. We are surely killing bees by the way we are
keeping bees.

And ourselves through this chemical pollution.

......................

http://www.hsph.harvard.edu/shinelab/research/PPCP.htm


Project Goals

"The overarching goal of this research project is to develop a ranking
system for PPCPs that quantifies the potential relative risk that
compounds pose to human health and ecological health. We will use this
relative ranking process to narrow the list of PPCPs to a more
manageable subset of priority PPCPs, those that likely pose the greatest
potential risk. These high risk PPCPs will be identified as requiring
additional research into their fate and transport, ecotoxicolgy, and
human toxicology."

http://www1.pressdemocrat.com/articl...WIRE/803100330

Trace amounts of drugs found in cities' water

By JEFF DONN,
MARTHA MENDOZA
AND JUSTIN PRITCHARD
ASSOCIATED PRESS

A vast array of pharmaceuticals -- including antibiotics,
anti-convulsants, mood stabilizers and sex hormones -- have been found
in the drinking water supplies of at least 41 million Americans, an
Associated Press investigation shows.

To be sure, the concentrations of these pharmaceuticals are tiny,
measured in quantities of parts per billion or trillion, far below the
levels of a medical dose. Also, utilities insist their water is safe.

But the presence of so many prescription drugs -- and over-the-counter
medicines like acetaminophen and ibuprofen -- in so much of our drinking
water is increasing worries among scientists of long-term consequences
to human health.

In the course of a five-month inquiry, the AP discovered that drugs have
been detected in the drinking water supplies of 24 major metropolitan
areas -- from Southern California to Northern New Jersey, from Detroit
to Louisville, Ky.

Water providers rarely disclose results of pharmaceutical screenings,
unless pressed, the AP found. For example, the head of a group
representing major California suppliers said the public "doesn't know
how to interpret the information" and might be unduly alarmed.

How do the drugs get into the water? People take pills. Their bodies
absorb some of the medication, but the rest of it passes through and is
flushed down the toilet.

The wastewater is treated before it is discharged into reservoirs,
rivers or lakes. Then, some of the water is cleansed again at drinking
water treatment plants and piped to consumers. But most treatments do
not remove all drug residue.

And while researchers do not yet understand the exact risks from decades
of persistent exposure to random combinations of low levels of
pharmaceuticals, recent studies -- which have gone virtually unnoticed
by the general public -- have found alarming effects on human cells and
wildlife.

"We recognize it is a growing concern and we're taking it very
seriously," said Benjamin Grumbles, assistant administrator for water at
the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency.

Members of the AP National Investigative Team reviewed hundreds of
scientific reports, analyzed federal drinking water databases, visited
environmental study sites and treatment plants and interviewed more than
230 officials, academics and scientists. They also surveyed the nation's
50 largest cities and a dozen other major water providers, as well as
smaller community water providers in all 50 states.

Here are some of the key test results obtained by the AP:

Officials in Philadelphia said testing there discovered 56
pharmaceuticals or byproducts in treated drinking water, including
medicines for pain, infection, high cholesterol, asthma, epilepsy,
mental illness and heart problems. Sixty-three pharmaceuticals or
byproducts were found in the city's watersheds.

Anti-epileptic and anti-anxiety medications were detected in a portion
of the treated drinking water for 18.5 million people in Southern
California.

Researchers at the U.S. Geological Survey analyzed a Passaic Valley
Water Commission drinking water treatment plant, which serves 850,000
people in Northern New Jersey, and found a metabolized angina medicine
and the mood-stabilizing carbamazepine in drinking water.

A sex hormone was detected in San Francisco's drinking water.

The drinking water for Washington, D.C., and surrounding areas tested
positive for six pharmaceuticals.

The situation is undoubtedly worse than suggested by the positive test
results in the major population centers documented by the AP.

The federal government doesn't require any testing and hasn't set safety
limits for drugs in water. Of the 62 major water providers contacted,
the drinking water for 28 was tested.

Among the 34 that haven't: Houston, Chicago, Miami, Baltimore, Phoenix,
Boston and New York City's Department of Environmental Protection.

Some providers screen only for one or two pharmaceuticals, leaving open
the possibility that others are present.

The AP's investigation also indicates that watersheds, the natural
sources of most of the nation's water supply, also are contaminated.
Tests were conducted in the watersheds of 35 of the 62 major providers
surveyed by the AP, and pharmaceuticals were detected in 28.

Yet officials in six of those 28 metropolitan areas said they did not go
on to test their drinking water: Fairfax, Va.; Montgomery County in
Maryland; Omaha, Neb.; Oklahoma City; Santa Clara and New York City.

The New York state health department and the USGS tested the source of
the city's water, upstate. They found trace concentrations of heart
medicine, infection fighters, estrogen, anti-convulsants, a mood
stabilizer and a tranquilizer.

City water officials declined repeated requests for an interview. In a
statement, they insisted that "New York City's drinking water continues
to meet all federal and state regulations regarding drinking water
quality in the watershed and the distribution system" -- regulations
that do not address trace pharmaceuticals.

In several cases, officials at municipal or regional water providers
told the AP that pharmaceuticals had not been detected, but the AP
obtained the results of tests conducted by independent researchers that
showed otherwise.

Of the 28 major metropolitan areas where tests were performed on
drinking water supplies, only Albuquerque, N.M.; Austin, Texas; and
Virginia Beach, Va., said tests were negative. The drinking water in
Dallas has been tested, but officials are awaiting results.

Arlington, Texas, acknowledged that traces of a pharmaceutical were
detected in its drinking water but cited post-9/11 security concerns in
refusing to identify the drug.

The AP also contacted 52 small water providers -- one in each state, and
two each in Missouri and Texas -- that serve communities with
populations around 25,000. All but one said their drinking water had not
been screened for pharmaceuticals; officials in Emporia, Kan., refused
to answer questions, also citing post-9/11 issues.

Rural consumers who draw water from their own wells aren't in the clear
either, experts say.

Even users of bottled water and home filtration systems don't
necessarily avoid exposure. Bottlers, some of which simply repackage tap
water, do not typically treat or test for pharmaceuticals, according to
the industry's main trade group. The same goes for the makers of home
filtration systems.

Contamination is not confined to the United States. More than 100
different pharmaceuticals have been detected in lakes, rivers,
reservoirs and streams throughout the world. Studies have detected
pharmaceuticals in waters throughout Asia, Australia, Canada and Europe
-- even in Swiss lakes and the North Sea.

In the United States, the problem isn't confined to surface waters.
Pharmaceuticals also permeate aquifers deep underground, the source of
40 percent of the nation's water supply. Federal scientists who drew
water in 24 states from aquifers near contaminant sources such as
landfills and animal feed lots found minuscule levels of hormones,
antibiotics and other drugs.

Perhaps it's because Americans have been taking drugs -- and flushing
them unmetabolized or unused -- in growing amounts. Over the past five
years, the number of U.S. prescriptions rose 12 percent to a record 3.7
billion, while nonprescription drug purchases held steady around 3.3
billion, according to IMS Health and the Nielsen Co.

"People think that if they take a medication, their body absorbs it and
it disappears, but of course that's not the case," said EPA scientist
Christian Daughton, one of the first to draw attention to the issue of
pharmaceuticals in water in the United States.

Some drugs, including widely used cholesterol fighters, tranquilizers
and anti-epileptic medications, resist modern drinking water and
wastewater treatment processes. Plus, the EPA says there are no sewage
treatment systems specifically engineered to remove pharmaceuticals.

Veterinary drugs also play a role. Pets are now treated for a wide range
of ailments -- sometimes with the same drugs as humans.

The inflation-adjusted value of veterinary drugs rose by 8 percent, to
$5.2 billion, over the past five years, according to an analysis of data
from the Animal Health Institute.

Ask the pharmaceutical industry whether the contamination of water
supplies is a problem, and officials will tell you no.

"Based on what we now know, I would say we find there's little or no
risk from pharmaceuticals in the environment to human health," said
microbiologist Thomas White, a consultant for the Pharmaceutical
Research and Manufacturers of America.

But at a conference last summer, Mary Buzby -- director of environmental
technology for drug maker Merck & Co. Inc. -- said: "There's no doubt
about it, pharmaceuticals are being detected in the environment and
there is genuine concern that these compounds, in the small
concentrations that they're at, could be causing impacts to human health
or to aquatic organisms."

Recent research has found that small amounts of medication have affected
human embryonic kidney cells, human blood cells and human breast cancer
cells. The cancer cells proliferated too quickly; the kidney cells grew
too slowly; and the blood cells showed biological activity associated
with inflammation.

Also, pharmaceuticals in waterways are damaging wildlife across the
nation and around the globe, research shows. Notably, male fish are
being feminized, creating egg yolk proteins, a process usually
restricted to females.

Some scientists stress that the research is extremely limited, and there
are too many unknowns. They say, though, that the documented health
problems in wildlife are disconcerting.

So much is unknown. Many independent scientists are skeptical that trace
concentrations will ultimately prove to be harmful to humans. There's
growing concern in the scientific community, though, that certain drugs
-- or combinations of drugs -- may harm humans over decades because
water, unlike most specific foods, is consumed in sizable amounts every
day.Pregnant women, the elderly and the very ill might be more sensitive.

"We know we are being exposed to other people's drugs through our
drinking water, and that can't be good," says Dr. David Carpenter, who
directs the Institute for Health and the Environment of the State
University of New York at Albany.
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/

In article , Charlie wrote:

On Mon, 10 Mar 2008 11:37:32 -0400, Ann wrote:

Charlie expounded:


Goddammit Billy, I'm gonna beat you like a rented mule.

Ease up on Ann.

Don't worry about him, he doesn't bother me a bit.

Oh, but I do worry about him. Bein's that I have a great fondness for
the old fart, I would really hate to see him blow an aorta or suffer
some sort of cerebral bleedout
And I would hate to see you coming out of the nursery with your latest
"gotta have" only to get hit by a lawn care truck that you didn't see
and get dragged a hunnert yards before they figure out what the noise is
that was comin' out from under the truck, and they put the all pieces
into a sack and sent it to the hospital for first aid. Yup, that there
would be a bummer. Ruin my whole morning.
when he has forgotten to have his cuppa
prunella. He is chockablock full of good info and his heart and head
are in the right places.....*most* of the time. ;-)

Seriously, Billy is a good head, just a little rambunctious at times
and every bit as political and more reactionary
RADICAL not reactionary, although either is preferable to our present
sociopath.
than I, though I
entirely understand where he is coming from. His points are usually
valid, his presention is just a little rough at times, and I understand
why this is, and he goes all ad hominem on some of us at times, some of
us most times. ;-)
I see I'm going to have to sharpen my invectives. They appear to be a
little obtuse.

It's okay by me...he has made me think deeply about some things...I
love the old geezer...he just needs a good beatin' once in a while.
How'd you ever make out with your pilates class and your pink spandex
gym ensemble? I hope someone got pictures;-) Heh, heh, heh.

Care
Charlie

GEORGE BUSH

Did she jump?
--

Billy

Impeach Pelosi, Bush & Cheney to the Hague
http://angryarab.blogspot.com/
http://rachelcorriefoundation.org/