In article
,
Chris wrote:

On May 30, 1:05*am, Billy wrote:
In article
,

*Chris wrote:
OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether
it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue
that.

My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will
become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is
death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this?

Chris

For the last 4 decades, as I read it, there have been no global cold
records, however there are a number of global record highs. The rain is
going to move North, and the greatest temperature change will be at the
higher latitudes. Water shortages may begin in 9 years. I don't mean to
alarm anyone, but exponential growth is impressive. One becomes 2,
becomes 4, which becomes 8, to 16, and so on and so forth, usw. Now, if
you had a pond that filled exponentially in 13 days, at how many days
would half a pond be?

For example, if just the ice around Greenland melted, it would raise the
sea level 6'. Out of 150 original glaciers in Glacier National Park, 29
remain.

Do you know who your Congressional representatives are? What are they
doing about Global Warming, over population, and the disappearing water,
which without "modern crops" can't be grown. A whole lot of countries
including China, India, and the U.S.A. are running out of water quickly,
like in California where farmers can make more money selling water than
they can farming.

Contact your Congresspersons, and maybe stake your claim to the first
Arctic Ocean resort.
--
- Billy

Not to mention the impending disaster when the aquifers in western
North America are pumped dry. They're taking about 6 more inches out
than are replenished, annually. If you think the price of bread or
flour is high now, wait until that water crunch hits.

Chris

The Ogalla Aquifer in Nebraska and Kansas seems OK, but it is running
dry in Texas and New Mexico. Aquifers in Yemen, India, northern China,
Afghanistan, Mexico, and Pakistan are being pumped faster than they can
recharge. There is fossil water aquifers in Saudi Arabia, which are
close to running dry. One fifth of the American grain, 3/5 Indian grain,
and 4/5 of China's grain comes from irrigation. India and China account
for 40% of the worlds population. These 3 countries account for 50% of
the world's annual grain harvest. Half the world's population live in
countries with falling aquifers. Forty percent of the world's grain
comes from irrigated land, and 70% of the worlds fresh water is used for
irrigation.

Add to this diminished snow falls, as on the Sierras in California that
is diverted to farming in the Central Valley, and vanishing glaciers in
Bolivia and India, and a scary problem presents itself. IIRC in 1970
there was 130 days of excess food for everyone on the planet. Today
there is 40 days of excess food.

A 3 foot rise in the oceans would sharply reduce the amount of rice
grown in Bangladesh, and the Mekong Delta. Vietnam exports rice to 20
countries.

When temperatures rise during the growing season, grain yields fall.
Crop ecologists use a rule of thumb that for each 1-degree-Celsius rise
in temperature above the optimum during the growing season, you can
expect a 10% decline in grain yields. Photosynthesis plateaus at 95
degrees Fahrenheit, declines to 104 degrees F, and then stops.

My latest reading material is:

"World on the Edge: How to Prevent Environmental and Economic Collapse"
by Lester Russell Brown
http://www.amazon.com/World-Edge-Env...llapse/dp/0393
339491/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1306790530&sr=1-1
(Available at a library near you [while they are still open])
--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/

Nad R writes:

wrote:

1. Adopt a positive attitude.
2. Life (and gardens) will find a way.

I disagree with your two points on life.

#1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book.

Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they
should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a
negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all
negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend
some extra time and get it right.

#2 Life does not always find away.

The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are
always putting profit over health and environment.

Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life.

Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my
impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I
found it.

The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue
Claws return to the Hudson. My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer,
I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. There was a coyote in Manhattan a
while back.


--
Dan Espen

wrote:
Nad R writes:

wrote:

1. Adopt a positive attitude.
2. Life (and gardens) will find a way.

I disagree with your two points on life.

#1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book.

Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they
should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a
negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all
negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend
some extra time and get it right.

#2 Life does not always find away.

The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are
always putting profit over health and environment.

Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life.

Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my
impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I
found it.

The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue
Claws return to the Hudson. My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer,
I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. There was a coyote in Manhattan a
while back.

I am not afraid at all... I just do not trust others to make good
decisions.
I will try and protect myself from others overly optimistic views. I too
try to minimize my impact on the earth and others, but it is not easy by
any means.

I see deer overpopulation as a negative impact on the environment. I too
have foxes and turkeys in my neighborhood also. Frogs seem to be
disappearing and I do not see as many good bugs like praying mantis and
stick bugs.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

On Mon, 30 May 2011 10:08:59 -0400, wrote:

Chris writes:

OK, global climate change is a fact. I don't want to get into whether
it is caused by humans or not, so I will ignore any replies that argue
that.

My gardening question is this: all the best scenarios say weather will
become more extreme and more variable. Variable extreme weather is
death to the home gardener. Any suggestions on this?

Seems to me, they garden in Alaska and at the Equator.
Aren't those both examples of extreme weather?


Extreme climates but predictably so. However there are risks there;
for example in the tropics monsoons may fail.

Maybe you have some other kind of extreme in mind?

Yes, the variable sort. This will make growing more difficult in two
ways.

Variation in climate from the one you have now, so things that suit
may not suit in future. Of course other things that don't suit now
may suit in future. Both are going to be challenges of adaptation.

Secondly, stronger variations in weather, that is more extreme weather
events. Dry may get drier, wet may get wetter, storms may get
stronger. This is another challenge.


The tornados ripping through the middle of the US affect a very small
percentage of the total land surface.


True, but a failed monsoon will affect hundreds of millions of people.
Also tropical rain in what was the dry season will promote the spread
of disease (like denque fever which has no immunisation) over wide
areas.

Anyway, what's with the doom and gloom. Here in the northern hemisphere
it's spring and phrases like "death to the home gardener" seem
so inappropriate.


Heat waves can be deadly for the old and weak in cool climates where
neither buildings nor people are prepared to cope.

But you are right that we must be optimistic. I don't mean the
foolish optimism of the deniers (if we close our eyes it will go away)
but optimism that we can adapt.

A robin has built it's nest on top of the box that was installed for
FIOS on my house. I'm enjoying peeking out the door watching the
robin sit patiently on it's eggs. It's nest is on the FIOS box and
right under the electric meter. 2 days ago we had about 15 minutes of
the heaviest rain I've seen in a while. The winds must have hit about
45MPH. I was a bit concerned about the robin so I peeked out the door
and saw that the house and the electric meter protected the bird nicely.
It looked like it was enjoying the weather.

Points a

1. Adopt a positive attitude.

Yes.

2. Life (and gardens) will find a way.

Ever heard the curse "may you live in interesting times"?

David

In article , wrote:

Nad R writes:

wrote:

1. Adopt a positive attitude.
2. Life (and gardens) will find a way.

I disagree with your two points on life.

#1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book.

Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they
should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a
negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all
negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend
some extra time and get it right.

#2 Life does not always find away.

The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are
always putting profit over health and environment.

Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life.

Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my
impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I
found it.

The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue
Claws return to the Hudson. My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer,
I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. There was a coyote in Manhattan a
while back.

Poor *******. I guess that means that rat is the low hanging fruit in
Do-Wa-Ditty.
--
- Billy

Mad dog Republicans to the right. Democratic spider webs to the left. True conservatives, and liberals not to be found anywhere in the phantasmagoria
of the American political landscape.

America is not broke. The country is awash in wealth and cash.
It's just that it's not in your hands. It has been transferred, in the
greatest heist in history, from the workers and consumers to the banks
and the portfolios of the uber-rich.
http://www.politifact.com/wisconsin/.../michael-moore
/michael-moore-says-400-americans-have-more-wealth-/

On Mon, 30 May 2011 14:50:53 -0400, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:

Ten years? In ten years several posters here will be dead, you
imbecile!


Probably. But does that mean we should do nothing? Does it mean we
should hold a party for them now?

Are you trying to say something in your pointlessly insulting way or
just to be pointlessly insulting without saying anything?

David

On Mon, 30 May 2011 20:35:12 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
wrote:

wrote:

1. Adopt a positive attitude.
2. Life (and gardens) will find a way.

I disagree with your two points on life.

#1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book.

Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they
should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best".

You are so gloomy, I bet your glass is always less than half empty and
you would be shocked if it got half full.


A person with a
negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all
negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend
some extra time and get it right.

This is where your sour view disables you. This is a non sequitur.
There is no incompatibility between a positive attitude and using
foresight, planning and risk assessment. There is incompatibility
between a negative attitude and harnessing your maximum energy to take
the necessary action that your planning tells you is required.


#2 Life does not always find away.


Short of a planet-cracking bolide life will endure, even then some
microbes might make it to start all over again.

The challenge in front of us is to find a way to endure that will
minimise death and pain.

The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are
always putting profit over health and environment.

That is true but it points to the solution: humans must fix what they
carelessly put at risk. Hiding away and saying "oh woe is us" will
not get it done.

David

On May 30, 4:24*pm, Brooklyn1 Gravesend1 wrote:
ImbecileChris wrote:
Brooklyn1 wrote:
Ten years? *In ten years several posters here will be dead, you
imbecile!

Thank you for that cogent, reasoned, detailed, and appropriate
response.

You forgot 'accurate', IMBECILE! LOL-LOL

Please remember to take the blue pill in the morning and the pink pill
in the evening.

NOT the other way around.

Chris

On May 30, 5:37*pm, wrote:
Nad R writes:
wrote:

1. Adopt a positive attitude.
2. Life (and gardens) will find a way.

I disagree with your two points on life.

#1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book.

Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they
should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a
negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all
negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend
some extra time and get it right.

#2 Life does not always find away.

The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are
always putting profit over health and environment.

Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life.

Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my
impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I
found it.

The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue
Claws return to the Hudson. *My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer,
I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. *There was a coyote in Manhattan a
while back.

--
Dan Espen

You see deer because of bad land management practices and the
elimination of predators.

Wild turkeys have been introduced to many areas.

Black bears are extremely versatile animals. When you see them in
human-inhabited areas, it means they do not have sufficient wild area
for them to establish a territory.

Ditto, coyotes.

Chris

David Hare-Scott writes:

On Mon, 30 May 2011 10:08:59 -0400, wrote:

Chris writes:
2. Life (and gardens) will find a way.

Ever heard the curse "may you live in interesting times"?

I love that saying.

When things really start going down the drain, you still find solace.
"At least it's interesting".




--
Dan Espen

David Hare-Scott wrote:
On Mon, 30 May 2011 20:35:12 +0000 (UTC), Nad R
wrote:

wrote:

1. Adopt a positive attitude.
2. Life (and gardens) will find a way.

I disagree with your two points on life.

#1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book.

Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they
should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best".

You are so gloomy, I bet your glass is always less than half empty and
you would be shocked if it got half full.

Not only is the glass ( Earth ) is half empty with good ideas it is
polluted and leaking also. I say stop humans from breeding like rats... But
others believe this is a negative view, I say it is positive view.

A person with a
negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all
negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend
some extra time and get it right.


This is where your sour view disables you. This is a non sequitur.
There is no incompatibility between a positive attitude and using
foresight, planning and risk assessment. There is incompatibility
between a negative attitude and harnessing your maximum energy to take
the necessary action that your planning tells you is required.

How does this disable one?
I disagree with your presuppositions on incompatibility and foresight. I
see a lot of people with positive attitudes taking the primrose path to
solving problems. Many just get plain lucky. If It fails, we will fix it
and fix it and fix it... As things keep getting worse and worse.


#2 Life does not always find away.


Short of a planet-cracking bolide life will endure, even then some
microbes might make it to start all over again.

The challenge in front of us is to find a way to endure that will
minimise death and pain.

Now who is thinking negatively! Minimize death and pain? Not improving
life and longevity? Hmmmmm......

The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are
always putting profit over health and environment.

That is true but it points to the solution: humans must fix what they
carelessly put at risk. Hiding away and saying "oh woe is us" will
not get it done.

Cool, you keep on fixing those nuclear power plants in Australia.
Me I say get rid of them. But those with positive attitudes say "We can fix
it".
Yea right.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Chris wrote:
On May 30, 5:37 pm, wrote:
Nad R writes:
wrote:

1. Adopt a positive attitude.
2. Life (and gardens) will find a way.

I disagree with your two points on life.

#1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book.

Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they
should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a
negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all
negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend
some extra time and get it right.

#2 Life does not always find away.

The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are
always putting profit over health and environment.

Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life.

Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my
impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I
found it.

The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue
Claws return to the Hudson. My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer,
I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. There was a coyote in Manhattan a
while back.

--
Dan Espen

You see deer because of bad land management practices and the
elimination of predators.

Wild turkeys have been introduced to many areas.

Black bears are extremely versatile animals. When you see them in
human-inhabited areas, it means they do not have sufficient wild area
for them to establish a territory.

Ditto, coyotes.

Chris

Yep, that is how I see it. He sees this as Positive Thinking attribute....
see the good! Positive thinkers are short sighted.

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

wrote:
David Hare-Scott writes:

On Mon, 30 May 2011 10:08:59 -0400, wrote:

Chris writes:
2. Life (and gardens) will find a way.

Ever heard the curse "may you live in interesting times"?

I love that saying.

When things really start going down the drain, you still find solace.
"At least it's interesting".




I suppose you also like the saying "Suffering Builds Character" also....
NOT!

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)

Chris writes:

On May 30, 5:37Â*pm, wrote:
Nad R writes:
wrote:

1. Adopt a positive attitude.
2. Life (and gardens) will find a way.

I disagree with your two points on life.

#1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book.

Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they
should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a
negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all
negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend
some extra time and get it right.

#2 Life does not always find away.

The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are
always putting profit over health and environment.

Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life.

Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my
impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I
found it.

The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue
Claws return to the Hudson. Â*My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer,
I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. Â*There was a coyote in Manhattan a
while back.

--
Dan Espen

You see deer because of bad land management practices and the
elimination of predators.

I hate the deer. But the land is healthy enough to support a load of
them and we aren't hunting them to extinction.

Wild turkeys have been introduced to many areas.

Not here. They're back because there are ecosystems that can support
them. And we aren't hunting them to extinction.

Black bears are extremely versatile animals. When you see them in
human-inhabited areas, it means they do not have sufficient wild area
for them to establish a territory.

No, they're doing so well in the wild areas that they overflow into
human inhabited areas. And we aren't hunting them to extinction.

Ditto, coyotes.

--
Dan Espen

wrote:
Chris writes:

On May 30, 5:37 pm, wrote:
Nad R writes:
wrote:

1. Adopt a positive attitude.
2. Life (and gardens) will find a way.

I disagree with your two points on life.

#1 Adopting a positive attitude is a risky game in my book.

Those that think with a positive attitude tend to cut corners where they
should not. "Just get it done... And hope for the best". A person with a
negative attitude knows things can fail and will try and foresee all
negative outcomes and makes the best of it for the money and outcome. Spend
some extra time and get it right.

#2 Life does not always find away.

The earth is in sad shape because of reckless human behaviors. People are
always putting profit over health and environment.

Being afraid and expecting the worst is no way to go through life.

Somehow, with my basically positive attitude I manage to minimize my
impact on the environment and leave the world a little better than I
found it.

The earth has a lot of problems, but in my short life I've seen Blue
Claws return to the Hudson. My neighborhood (NJ) is crawling with deer,
I see foxes, wild turkeys, bears. There was a coyote in Manhattan a
while back.

--
Dan Espen

You see deer because of bad land management practices and the
elimination of predators.

I hate the deer. But the land is healthy enough to support a load of
them and we aren't hunting them to extinction.

NO, they are breading because it illegal to shoot the does in numbers, a
bad management policy. I have had two deer hits with my truck that has cost
me and the insurance company lots of money.The only predator they have are
humans... I say bring back the panthers and wolves in your back yard to
bring nature back in balance. Also deer are not native to America.

Wild turkeys have been introduced to many areas.

Not here. They're back because there are ecosystems that can support
them. And we aren't hunting them to extinction.

They breed turkeys and pheasants here in Michigan also. They DNR also
breeds fish for the great lakes. Without breeding it is estimated the great
would have no fish in just five years or less.

Black bears are extremely versatile animals. When you see them in
human-inhabited areas, it means they do not have sufficient wild area
for them to establish a territory.

No, they're doing so well in the wild areas that they overflow into
human inhabited areas. And we aren't hunting them to extinction.

Ditto, coyotes.

Black bears are not doing well here also. Those Asians want big bucks for
bear's liver as an aphrodisiac. So the poaching is devastating them.

Please enlighten me with more positive views... Pathetic...

--
Enjoy Life... Nad R (Garden in zone 5a Michigan)