On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:05:01 -0700, Roy wrote:

The pods develop from the flowers.
The pods contain the seeds and they go from green to black as the ripen.

Hmmm... I was thinking these things were the actual seed pods:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13403320.jpg

Can someone confirm whether these are the actual seed pods?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13403321.jpg

In article ,
Danny D. wrote:

I need better spider-catching tools than this plastic container:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13403290.jpg

I got one of these years ago:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/garden/page.aspx?p=44895

I just used it again a few days ago. I generally close the bottom
part manually, slowly, so as not to squish the spider as would
probably happen if I let gravity close it.


Patty

Oren wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 14:01:44 -0500, "Natural - Smoking Gun - Girl"
wrote:

I'm pretty sure that plant isn't poke salad.

Have you ever eaten it cooked? My grandma used to cook it for us all the
time and taught me how. You pull the leaves off the plant .. medium to
smaller leaves are more tender, and then you boil them like you would
spinach leaves 'til they are tender. After that you drain the boiled leaves
and squeeze all the water out of the leaves you can get to come out of them.
Next you add some oil to a frying pan, and break up the boiled leaves into
the hot grease. Break 2 or 3 fresh eggs over the poke in the hot grease and
stir fry the eggs with the poke. Add a bit of salt to taste while it's
cooking. MMMMMMMmmm!!

we meet again (g) I'm posting from AHR

Never recall eating poke salad. I'm a collard, mustard green and
turnip green person. I can only imagine that ancestors may have
gathered poke salad, cooked and ate it.

My grandfather grew greens in his garden. Tender leaves are the best.


That doesn't look anything like pokeweed. It does look kind of like a
noxious weed called "garlic mustard", except that has white flowers.

Might be Indian mustard, or wild turnip, or wild rapeseed:
http://www.cals.uidaho.edu/edComm/pdf/WREP/WREP0143.pdf

Bob

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 04:32:22 +0000, Patty Winter wrote:

I got one of these years ago:
http://www.leevalley.com/US/garden/page.aspx?p=44895

That thing is ingenious!

On 6/24/2013 11:32 PM, Patty Winter wrote:
In article ,
Danny D. wrote:

I need better spider-catching tools than this plastic container:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13403290.jpg

I got one of these years ago:

http://www.leevalley.com/US/garden/page.aspx?p=44895

I just used it again a few days ago. I generally close the bottom
part manually, slowly, so as not to squish the spider as would
probably happen if I let gravity close it.


Patty



Cool, you can release the innocent little spider outdoors away from your
house or take it at least a mile away so it can't find its way
back to your home. ^_^

TDD

Danny D. said:


On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:05:01 -0700, Roy wrote:

The pods develop from the flowers.
The pods contain the seeds and they go from green to black as the
ripen.

Hmmm... I was thinking these things were the actual seed pods:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13403320.jpg

Can someone confirm whether these are the actual seed pods?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13403321.jpg


Yes, those are the pods. Right now they are immature. They will grow,
ripen, and begin to dry and split open. You want to gather them (for seed)
just before the pods open. Young pods can be harvested and eaten.

--
Pat in Plymouth MI

"Yes, swooping is bad."

email valid but not regularly monitored

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 04:01:21 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:
On Mon, 24 Jun 2013 19:05:01 -0700, Roy wrote:

The pods develop from the flowers.
The pods contain the seeds and they go from green to black as the ripen.

Hmmm... I was thinking these things were the actual seed pods:
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13403320.jpg

Your arrow is pointing towards an immature silique, the fruit of the plant...
that is a maturing ovary (aka gynoecium). If you cut one in half crosswise,
you'll see two chambers, each with seeds.

I still can't tell which of many possibilities your particular members of the
mustard family are (there are a lot of them in California!), but it is
indeed a member of the mustard family, now mostly called the Brassicaceae, but
Cruciferae is the older classical name for this family. Typically
four separate sepals, four separate petals, six stamens (often two short and
four long) and a two-chambered ovary.
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/images/silique1.gif

Usually edible, though some are not. Some species pick up lead and other heavy
metals from the soil (remember all the years of leaded gasoline), which
can render them toxic.

As always, identify a plant properly before feasting on it.

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:17:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Cool, you can release the innocent little spider outdoors away from your
house or take it at least a mile away so it can't find its way
back to your home. ^_^

The only problem I've had with the glass jars is that the
last big fat (or so I had thought) black widow spider
suddenly had babies! Hundreds of 'em.

Next time, I'm not keeping her in the jar for more than
a day or two before I relocate her.

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410035.jpg

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 07:39:09 -0400, Pat Kiewicz wrote:

Can someone confirm whether these are the actual seed pods?
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13403321.jpg

Yes, those are the pods.

Thanks. Wow. There are lots and lots of seed pods on just one
plant!

No wonder they seem to be taking over my "wasteland".

Note: The descriptions say wild mustard takes over wasteland;
I wonder how the mustard 'knows' that it's wasteland?

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 15:42:03 +0000, Kay Lancaster wrote:

it is indeed a member of the mustard family...
4 separate sepals, 4 separate petals, 6 stamens
(often 2 short and 4 long) and a two-chambered ovary.
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/images/silique1.gif

Thanks for the helpful identification.

What I see clearly (and which matches the wild mustard ID) a
- 4 unveined yellow petals (aka sepals)
- 6 long things (aka stamens), 2 of which are shorter
- One thing in the middle (aka pistil)
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410171.jpg

And, now I recognize there a
- Lots of seed pods (aka immature siliques)
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410166.jpg

And:
- Lobate leaves which radiate out of the ground:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410179.jpg

Plus:
- Hairy stems
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410169.jpg

And, most unusual, that it "takes over (my) wasteland":
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410185.jpg

One remaining question:
Q: How does it know "my" yard is currently a wasteland?

PS: The sprinkler system is partially broken; there's an electrical
problem in some of the zones in that they don't work electrically
but they work mechanically if I turn them on at the box in the ground.

On 6/25/2013 3:53 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:17:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Cool, you can release the innocent little spider outdoors away from your
house or take it at least a mile away so it can't find its way
back to your home. ^_^

The only problem I've had with the glass jars is that the
last big fat (or so I had thought) black widow spider
suddenly had babies! Hundreds of 'em.

Next time, I'm not keeping her in the jar for more than
a day or two before I relocate her.

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410035.jpg


You could always let her run for Congress. ^_^

TDD

On 6/25/2013 1:53 PM, Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 05:17:50 -0500, The Daring Dufas wrote:

Cool, you can release the innocent little spider outdoors away from your
house or take it at least a mile away so it can't find its way
back to your home. ^_^

The only problem I've had with the glass jars is that the
last big fat (or so I had thought) black widow spider
suddenly had babies! Hundreds of 'em.

Next time, I'm not keeping her in the jar for more than
a day or two before I relocate her.

http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410035.jpg


right now, i have a 2" scorpion in a jar on my office desk. creeps a lot
of people out, though that keeps the traffic into my office down.

["Followup-To:" header set to rec.gardens.]
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 21:25:37 +0000 (UTC), Danny D. wrote:
On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 15:42:03 +0000, Kay Lancaster wrote:

it is indeed a member of the mustard family...
4 separate sepals, 4 separate petals, 6 stamens
(often 2 short and 4 long) and a two-chambered ovary.
http://waynesword.palomar.edu/images/silique1.gif

Thanks for the helpful identification.

What I see clearly (and which matches the wild mustard ID) a
- 4 unveined yellow petals (aka sepals)

Turn the flower upside down and you'll find there are 4 green sepals, then the
four yellow petals.

- 6 long things (aka stamens), 2 of which are shorter
- One thing in the middle (aka pistil)
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410171.jpg

Yup. Also called the gynoecium. The end of the pistil is the
stigma (where the pollen lands and germinates), then there's a constricted
region just below that, the style (pollen tubes germinate on the stigma
and grow down through the style, and eventually fertilize the ovules in the
thicker, basal part, the ovary or gynoecium.


And, now I recognize there a
- Lots of seed pods (aka immature siliques)
http://www3.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410166.jpg

And:
- Lobate leaves which radiate out of the ground:
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410179.jpg

Plus:
- Hairy stems
http://www1.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410169.jpg

And, most unusual, that it "takes over (my) wasteland":
http://www2.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13410185.jpg

Nah, not unusual at all. "Natura abhorret a vacuo" -- "Nature abhors
a vacuum. You've got a whole lot of open ground there with bare soil.
You've got 50 or 100 years worth of seeds sitting dormant in the soil,
ready to grow as soon as they get their chance -- you're not supplying
enough water for the plants you want to grow to grow well and fill
in the soil, so weed seeds that can take the conditions that are on offer
grow instead. "Canopy closure" -- growing enough plants to completely
shade the soil -- is one of the major ways of controlling weeds (which
are generally plants that do well in disturbed soils). In arid lands,
there's not enough soil moisture to support a true canopy most of the time,
so the spacing of plants is defined by how big an area they need to get enough
moisture from the soil. I presume you normally grow a lawn in this area,
probably something pretty unsuitable for the amount of natural rain
in the area, like Kentucky bluegrass. It dies, and gives the weedy mustard
a chance to grow. In other words, your soil is telling you to grow native
plants, or at least plants adapted to the area, instead of ones adapted
to England.

Oh yes, one other gardening proverb to consider "One season's seeding is
5 season's weeding." Except that it's really more like "One season's seeding
is 50+ years weeding.

If you're interested, here's some background reading for you:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soil_seed_bank
http://www.amazon.com/Natural-Histor...history+guides
http://www.ipm.ucdavis.edu/PMG/weeds_intro.html

Kay



One remaining question:
Q: How does it know "my" yard is currently a wasteland?

PS: The sprinkler system is partially broken; there's an electrical
problem in some of the zones in that they don't work electrically
but they work mechanically if I turn them on at the box in the ground.

Kay Lancaster wrote:
....
Oh yes, one other gardening proverb to consider "One season's seeding is
5 season's weeding." Except that it's really more like "One season's seeding
is 50+ years weeding.

yes, but once you get a cover crop growing which
shades the area the mustard will have a much harder
time taking over again, if you can keep at it for a
few seasons you can effectively eliminate it other
than having to spot weed a few times a season.
that's still much less time i spend in this one
garden than i used to (when it was full of weeds
and the soil was much poorer).

now i actually let a few mustard plants grow and
bloom (but not scatter seeds) because we like the
early yellow flowers.


songbird

On Tue, 25 Jun 2013 15:11:03 -0700, chaniarts wrote:

right now, i have a 2" scorpion in a jar on my office desk. creeps a lot
of people out, though that keeps the traffic into my office down.

I just shipped this lovely lady to you, via USPS Express Mail:
http://www5.picturepush.com/photo/a/...g/13411163.jpg

What I really need is a square-sided large thin-walled glass jar
to take better pictures of my captures...