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#46
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Gardening and climate change
On 10/03/2015 11:15 AM, songbird wrote:
what do you normally grow? where abouts are you? LOL. Love the snippage. |
#47
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Gardening and climate change
Once upon a time on usenet Frank" "frank wrote:
On 3/6/2015 3:45 PM, Hypatia Nachshon wrote: All of us home gardeners are affected, to one degree or another & will be into the future. (Not to mention major food suppliers, even in "developed" countries.) The deniers (including powerful committee chairmen in the US Congress) are still out there serving their Corporate Masters, but let us hope that their in$anity will become less influential as facts develop. An entertaining article about the exposure of Willie Soon, one of the most corrupt "scientist" deniers can be found at: http://www.onearth.org/earthwire/willie-soon-reader OR http://www.onearth.org/earthwire You will need to scroll way down -- past some very useful articles -- to: "All your Willie Soon schadenfreude in one handy article". HB "You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but not all of the people all of the time." Abraham Lincoln HB Sara, Who do you think funds all the scientists supporting global warming? You don't need to support a fact. It's only the deniers with vested interests who need to plow money into 'research'. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) |
#48
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Gardening and climate change
Once upon a time on usenet Dan Espen wrote:
"David Hare-Scott" writes: Stronzo Bestiale wrote: On 3/8/2015 5:50 PM, Fran Farmer wrote: On 9/03/2015 8:19 AM, snotbottom wrote: It's been nice to see some life in the group again. Let's not kill it by getting political. I'd rather just read about the gardening advice and experiences from others and take the divisive stuff somewhere else. Climate Change has an impact on those of us who do bother to garden and who also try to have productive gardens. That makes climate change on topic here. Climate change only becomes a divisive issue here when those who can't read for comprehension try to deny that it is a reality. He's right. You and Sara are getting political. And here was I thinking it was a matter of science. Silly me. Surely you've noticed that one political party here in the USA is having none of it. What has the stance of a political party in the US got to do with science that affects the whole world? (It's bigger than the US you know....) -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) Here in NJ, the snow on the ground is still over a foot deep. But my orchid has been blooming non-stop since around XMAS. What a beautiful plant. The XMAS cactus have been going since before Thanksgiving. |
#49
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Gardening and climate change
Once upon a time on usenet Brooklyn1 wrote:
Stronzo Bestiale wrote: Fran Farmer wrote: Stronzo Bestiale wrote: Fran Farmer wrote: snotbottom wrote: It's been nice to see some life in the group again. Let's not kill it by getting political. I'd rather just read about the gardening advice and experiences from others and take the divisive stuff somewhere else. Climate Change has an impact on those of us who do bother to garden and who also try to have productive gardens. That makes climate change on topic here. Climate change only becomes a divisive issue here when those who can't read for comprehension try to deny that it is a reality. He's right. You and Sara are getting political. It's science. Oh, you a scientist? Climate has been changing for a Billion years, so imperceptively slowly that it has zero effect on a lifetime of gardening, not even 100 life times of gardening. Yet recently it's been changing at an alarmingly accelerated rate. I've certainly noticed it in my 50 something years. All anyone who gardens need do regarding climate change is to check their daily weather report and even that is wrong at least 50% of the time. The people here who insist on arguing climate change are those pinheads who do not garden, not a one of those shit stirrers has ever shown pictures of their garden... it's all their fantasy... the closest they come to gardening is shopping Walmart's produce. Insults huh? I guess that's the measure of you then. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) |
#50
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Gardening and tomatoes
Once upon a time on usenet T wrote:
On 03/09/2015 12:50 PM, Drew Lawson wrote: In article T writes: Are your tomato beds well drained? Tomatoes love to be drenched (they are from the Amazon), but do not like their roots in standing/stagnant water. Tomatoes originated in the Andes, not the Amazon. Aside from the initial letter, the two have little in common. Hi Drew, Tomatoes were originally cultivated by the Incas which inhabited the Andes. But they came from the Amazon rain forest. Peru, which contains both the Andes and Incas, also contains part of the Amazon rain forest. I think you are mixing the origin of the plant (the rain forest) with the origin of who originally cultivated it (the Incas and Aztecs), but I could be wrong. Amazon Facts: http://rfadventures.com/amazon_facts.htm "At least 80% of the developed world's diet originated in the tropical rainforest. Its bountiful gifts to the world include fruits like avocados, coconuts, figs, oranges, lemons, grapefruit, bananas, guavas, pineapples, mangos and *tomatoes*; vegetables including corn, potatoes, rice, winter squash and yams; spices like black pepper, cayenne, chocolate, cinnamon, cloves, ginger, sugar cane, turmeric, coffee and vanilla and nuts including Brazil nuts and cashews. At least 3000 fruits are found in the rainforests; of these only 200 are now in use in the Western World. The Indians of the rainforest use over 2,000. Wow. A lot of stuff came from the Amazon! A quick look at a typical fragile tomato plant tells you it did not originate in the freezing cold, high altitude deserts of the Andes. The Andes start at not much more than sea level and go up from there. Saying something is cultivated 'on the Andes' doesn't mean the peaks. Now back to my point. These plants come from the Amazon rain forest. They are accustomed and evolved to expect a daily drenching from thunderstorms. So, I was trying to find out if Higgs was recreating these ideal conditions: Humid, drenched and drained. (Not high altitude, freezing nights, and very low moisture.) The ancestors of edible tomatoes may well have "origiated" in the Amazon basin but the ones that I grow would succumb to blight or mould very quickly if subjected to the wet and humidity of a rain forest. They've been selectively bred to grow places other than where they may have originated. The tomatoes bought to Europe and then to the US weren't from the Amazon basin - they were cultivars obtained from the natives of South America who had bred them for generations to grow elsewhere. You want to grow rainforest 'tomatoes'? I think you'll find they're not much different to any other Nightshade species other than perhaps having larger, redder fruits. This is actually information I am relaying from a local CSA greenhouse. Their incredible organic tomatoes were in wet, humid, drained green houses. And EVERY tomato was incredible: both heirlooms and hybrids alike. How do they control or prevent blight / fungus / rot? Do you have tips for her? I hate it that she can't get a decent tomato. As far as my experience goes, it is all about the soil. Going by the above you know almost everything there is to know about them. You can't help? -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) |
#51
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Gardening and climate change
Fran Farmer wrote:
songbird wrote: what do you normally grow? where abouts are you? LOL. Love the snippage. i hate having to reformat google groups posts... songbird |
#52
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Gardening and climate change
"~misfit~" writes:
Once upon a time on usenet Dan Espen wrote: "David Hare-Scott" writes: Stronzo Bestiale wrote: On 3/8/2015 5:50 PM, Fran Farmer wrote: On 9/03/2015 8:19 AM, snotbottom wrote: It's been nice to see some life in the group again. Let's not kill it by getting political. I'd rather just read about the gardening advice and experiences from others and take the divisive stuff somewhere else. Climate Change has an impact on those of us who do bother to garden and who also try to have productive gardens. That makes climate change on topic here. Climate change only becomes a divisive issue here when those who can't read for comprehension try to deny that it is a reality. He's right. You and Sara are getting political. And here was I thinking it was a matter of science. Silly me. Surely you've noticed that one political party here in the USA is having none of it. What has the stance of a political party in the US got to do with science that affects the whole world? (It's bigger than the US you know....) Huh? Not sure what you are getting at. My comments are clearly limited to the USA. Now we're having a climate science vs. politics scandal break out in Florida. The fun never ends. -- Dan Espen |
#53
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Gardening and tomatoes
On 03/10/2015 05:44 PM, ~misfit~ wrote:
This is actually information I am relaying from a local CSA greenhouse. Their incredible organic tomatoes were in wet, humid, drained green houses. And EVERY tomato was incredible: both heirlooms and hybrids alike. How do they control or prevent blight / fungus / rot? Do you have tips for her? I hate it that she can't get a decent tomato. As far as my experience goes, it is all about the soil. Going by the above you know almost everything there is to know about them. You can't help? Hi Misfit, I am relaying what I saw and was told at a successful green house. Here is good link for you: Growing Hydroponic Gardening Tomatoes http://www.mightygrowhydro.com/growi...opinically.htm "For tomatoes, an ideal humidity level in the greenhouse needs to be between 65 and 70 percent. Temperatures must not vary too much, although tomatoes flourish when the night time temperature is ten degrees below that of the daytime Ideally, temperatures really should be seventy-three degrees during the day and sixty-three during the night. This is what I observed at the successful greenhouse. Maybe somewhere in the link there will be something for you about the "blight / fungus / rot" problem you were complaining about. I am hope at some point Songbird will chime in. He has about 100 times my knowledge. Maybe he knows something about your "blight / fungus / rot" problem too. -T |
#54
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Gardening and tomatoes
T wrote:
.... I am hope at some point Songbird will chime in. He has about 100 times my knowledge. Maybe he knows something about your "blight / fungus / rot" problem too. nope, i'm not a guru when it comes to tomatoes and unfortunately i get overruled now when i want to try different varieties. others here have a lot more experience. i've done the usual routine types of attempts to limit damage or remove plants that look to be badly infected before they can spread to other plants. spacing plants, trimming lower leaves to prevent diseases by increasing air flow and sunlight, mulching to prevent splashing of soil onto the plants, etc. sometimes these things help and other times they don't. last year it didn't matter what i did the disease came in with the plants when they were planted (my best guess, because of how it affected all the plants no matter where they were planted in different types of soils, some were mulched others weren't, etc.). this year i plan to plant two cherry tomato plants and that's about it for tomatoes. we have enough to get by in the pantry and that will let me rotate plant other veggies. i can always use more space for beans. sonbird |
#55
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Gardening and climate change
On 11/03/2015 1:14 PM, Dan Espen wrote:
Now we're having a climate science vs. politics scandal break out in Florida. The fun never ends. Yup. I've just been reading about North Carolina House Bill 819. Astounding. King Canute would be proud. |
#56
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Gardening and tomatoes
On 03/10/2015 10:43 PM, songbird wrote:
T wrote: ... I am hope at some point Songbird will chime in. He has about 100 times my knowledge. Maybe he knows something about your "blight / fungus / rot" problem too. nope, i'm not a guru when it comes to tomatoes and unfortunately i get overruled now when i want to try different varieties. others here have a lot more experience. i've done the usual routine types of attempts to limit damage or remove plants that look to be badly infected before they can spread to other plants. spacing plants, trimming lower leaves to prevent diseases by increasing air flow and sunlight, mulching to prevent splashing of soil onto the plants, etc. sometimes these things help and other times they don't. last year it didn't matter what i did the disease came in with the plants when they were planted (my best guess, because of how it affected all the plants no matter where they were planted in different types of soils, some were mulched others weren't, etc.). this year i plan to plant two cherry tomato plants and that's about it for tomatoes. we have enough to get by in the pantry and that will let me rotate plant other veggies. i can always use more space for beans. sonbird Hi Songbird, But you are the soil expert! I make up with lack of yield with quantity of plants. Wife and I both LOVE cherry tomatoes and eat them like candy! Two years ago, some invisible mite got a lot of folks, but they missed me. :-P (Usually it is the other way around.) I still have to get a decent yield off a regular tomato plant. Got 5 box car willies last season. Got a nice yield of cherries though for once. (Boy picking cherry tomatoes sure gives you an appreciation of those that do it for a living! The trick is to eat one out of every ten you pick. Keeps you encouraged.) This season, I think I am going to double my compost. And stock up on chicken poop fertilizer. The year the greenhouse used chicken poop, their tomatoes made your eyes roll in your head. The year they switched to fish poop from ponds, they were on the bitter side. -T |
#57
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Gardening and tomatoes
Once upon a time on usenet T wrote:
On 03/10/2015 05:44 PM, ~misfit~ wrote: This is actually information I am relaying from a local CSA greenhouse. Their incredible organic tomatoes were in wet, humid, drained green houses. And EVERY tomato was incredible: both heirlooms and hybrids alike. How do they control or prevent blight / fungus / rot? Do you have tips for her? I hate it that she can't get a decent tomato. As far as my experience goes, it is all about the soil. Going by the above you know almost everything there is to know about them. You can't help? Hi Misfit, I am relaying what I saw and was told at a successful green house. Here is good link for you: Growing Hydroponic Gardening Tomatoes http://www.mightygrowhydro.com/growi...opinically.htm "For tomatoes, an ideal humidity level in the greenhouse needs to be between 65 and 70 percent. Temperatures must not vary too much, although tomatoes flourish when the night time temperature is ten degrees below that of the daytime Ideally, temperatures really should be seventy-three degrees during the day and sixty-three during the night. This is what I observed at the successful greenhouse. Oh, you're talking about a hydroponic system. I have done some hydroponic / aeroponic growing in the past with humidity and temperature control and it's a whole different ball game to organic soil growing. They have very little in common. In soil the humidity is much higher closer to the ground whereas in a hydroponic greenhouse it's fairly uniform top to bottom. It really is apples and oranges. A hydroponic greenhouse is a semi-closed system where you have control over light levels, temperature and humidity. Consequently you can walk that fine line between perfect and too high humidity knowing that it's not going to go too high, and that it's uniform. Maybe somewhere in the link there will be something for you about the "blight / fungus / rot" problem you were complaining about. I am hope at some point Songbird will chime in. He has about 100 times my knowledge. Maybe he knows something about your "blight / fungus / rot" problem too. The biggest problem this year for me was that 'spring' was mostly very wet and humid. We had maybe two weeks of 'yay it's spring' weather then six weeks of wet humid and colder than usual. I had to pull my first planting of tomatoes out as they just wet black and rotted (at 1.5m tall no less). So you can perhaps see why I don't agree that tomatoes like it very humid. (Ask anyone who grows tomatoes in the UK about what it's like trying to grow them in a climate that's too wet for them. They have to rotate the areas they grow them in religiously or they get bad blight early on in the season from the spores of last autumn.) Then, a few days before Xmas, when I'd normally be getting into the main harvest the weather dried up - too much! It got very hot and dry. Consequently I've only just started getting a decent number or ripe tomatoes now and the days are getting much shorter already and the nights colder. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) |
#58
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Gardening and climate change
Once upon a time on usenet Dan Espen wrote:
"~misfit~" writes: Once upon a time on usenet Dan Espen wrote: "David Hare-Scott" writes: Stronzo Bestiale wrote: On 3/8/2015 5:50 PM, Fran Farmer wrote: On 9/03/2015 8:19 AM, snotbottom wrote: It's been nice to see some life in the group again. Let's not kill it by getting political. I'd rather just read about the gardening advice and experiences from others and take the divisive stuff somewhere else. Climate Change has an impact on those of us who do bother to garden and who also try to have productive gardens. That makes climate change on topic here. Climate change only becomes a divisive issue here when those who can't read for comprehension try to deny that it is a reality. He's right. You and Sara are getting political. And here was I thinking it was a matter of science. Silly me. Surely you've noticed that one political party here in the USA is having none of it. What has the stance of a political party in the US got to do with science that affects the whole world? (It's bigger than the US you know....) Huh? Not sure what you are getting at. My comments are clearly limited to the USA. Yes but not everybody else's were. This is an international group and so to say in this group that climate change is a political matter is frankly wrong. Now we're having a climate science vs. politics scandal break out in Florida. The fun never ends. Ok but that doesn't mean a discussion on climate change in a global group has anything to do with politics. -- Shaun. "Humans will have advanced a long, long, way when religious belief has a cozy little classification in the DSM." David Melville (in r.a.s.f1) |
#59
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Gardening and climate change
Fran Farmer wrote:
.... :-)) And less snow for water for the populace is only one of the signs you've written about...... I keep wondering if it will take famine conditions in the first world before some people finally manage to join the dots. i suspect there will be food riots and troubles in poorer countries again long before you see problems in the first world countries. the first world has the resources to ship foods around. only when we get some rather unlikely multiple year droughts in several of the large grain growing regions in combination with wars which disrupt shipping would you see a large famine in the first world. at the moment i think we're on the edge and could be mostly ok, but it means making some changes. improving ground and surface water regulations, putting the land back into the hands of people instead of corporations, having more diversity and protection for wild spaces, funding restoration and replanting projects, increasing wetlands to help with flooding and droughts, improving irrigation and monitoring of ground water pumping. boycotting products from companies or people who poison is one immediate thing that i can do and that shifts at least some production towards more sustainable methods. growing my own food using sustainable methods is another. at least then i know some wild creatures have a home that isn't being poisoned. songbird |
#60
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Gardening and climate change
On 12/03/2015 4:12 AM, songbird wrote:
Fran Farmer wrote: ... :-)) And less snow for water for the populace is only one of the signs you've written about...... I keep wondering if it will take famine conditions in the first world before some people finally manage to join the dots. i suspect there will be food riots and troubles in poorer countries again long before you see problems in the first world countries. Yup. the first world has the resources to ship foods around. Yup, and does do that now regardless. only when we get some rather unlikely multiple year droughts in several of the large grain growing regions in combination with wars which disrupt shipping would you see a large famine in the first world. Well Oz has certainly had the multiple year droughts in grain areas and I have a vague memory that Russia had too. Can't quite see the shipping disruption on the horizon. at the moment i think we're on the edge and could be mostly ok, but it means making some changes. improving ground and surface water regulations, putting the land back into the hands of people instead of corporations, having more diversity and protection for wild spaces, funding restoration and replanting projects, increasing wetlands to help with flooding and droughts, improving irrigation and monitoring of ground water pumping. :-)) In short, I think you have joined me in my 'when pigs fly' view of the possibility of the dots being joined? boycotting products from companies or people who poison is one immediate thing that i can do and that shifts at least some production towards more sustainable methods. growing my own food using sustainable methods is another. at least then i know some wild creatures have a home that isn't being poisoned. We have a wonderful garden for other creatures. Some I could do without liek the blasted rabbits and the snakes but the others are all well worth observing. For example; we spend a lot of time watching the antics of birds and the last time I bothered to aks Himself (who is very keen on birds) he had recorded seeing between 60 and 70 different birds types in our garden. We make sure we do our pruning to avoid nesting times and we keep many plants that are supposedly weeds because they give food or shelter for wildlife. We do fight about Queen Anne's Lace though. He always pulls it out when he notices it because he thinks it will go wild in his paddocks. I have finally mananged to stop him ripping out my verbasums now as I finally corrected his misidentification of them. |
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