When I installed my drip-line hoses (Rain Drip Drip-A-Long 1/2" hoses
with emitters every 18") I buried them about an inch in the soil. I'm
having some trouble with them now, and on Rain Drip's website they say
to keep the emitters out of the dirt. What do folks in this newsgroup
do? Do you bury the hoses in the dirt, only cover them with mulch, or
what?

Thanks.

On 1 Jun 2003 22:25:13 -0700, (Fleemo) wrote:

When I installed my drip-line hoses (Rain Drip Drip-A-Long 1/2" hoses
with emitters every 18") I buried them about an inch in the soil. I'm
having some trouble with them now, and on Rain Drip's website they say
to keep the emitters out of the dirt. What do folks in this newsgroup
do? Do you bury the hoses in the dirt, only cover them with mulch, or
what?


You can bury soaker hoses but not drips. The soil or mulch interferes
with emitters so that little water gets out and then only in that one
spot - little good for a plant a foot away.

I bury soaker hoses everywhere. The perrenials (raspberries,
blueberries) have permanent installations of soaker hoses. Fpr the
vegetable garden I lay hoses as I plant and cover with leaf mulch.
That works great for me.

John

Fleemo wrote:

When I installed my drip-line hoses (Rain Drip Drip-A-Long 1/2" hoses
with emitters every 18") I buried them about an inch in the soil. I'm
having some trouble with them now, and on Rain Drip's website they say
to keep the emitters out of the dirt. What do folks in this newsgroup
do? Do you bury the hoses in the dirt, only cover them with mulch, or
what?

Thanks.



I'm not familiar with that particular brand, but in general, leaving
drip lines on the surface causes them to move around irregularly due to
expansion and contraction. I always bury mine, but I also replace them
every year (I buy 8 mil drip line in long reels). Taking them out of the
field allows me to plow, disk, harrow, etc. without worrying about
snagging the drip line. It can be re-used, but the problem is storing
the line over the winter without having it kink or having rodents chew
on it. It's easier for me to use new stuff every year.

If you're using it for a permanent installation (orchard, berry patch,
etc.) you will want to use the 25 mil (or more) stuff. It should be able
to withstand being buried, since that's how everyone I know installs it.

"Fleemo" wrote in message
om...
When I installed my drip-line hoses (Rain Drip Drip-A-Long 1/2" hoses
with emitters every 18") I buried them about an inch in the soil. I'm
having some trouble with them now, and on Rain Drip's website they say
to keep the emitters out of the dirt. What do folks in this newsgroup
do? Do you bury the hoses in the dirt, only cover them with mulch, or
what?

Drip tape and 1/4 inch drip line with inline emitters are run at 10-15
psi and the output will be restricted if it surrounded by waterpacked
soil - more of a problem with clay soil, less with sandy soil.
Dripworks' (www.dripworksusa.com) 1/2 inch drip lines with extruded
inline emitters are run from 25 psi up to line pressure and can be
buried but work better on the soil surface. Any drip system lasts
longer when it is protected (covered) from the sun with organic mulch
that does not block emitter output. -Olin

Thanks for the input here folks.

Replacing the entire system of drip lines in my garden would be a
large and rather expensive chore every season. As a gardening
hobbiest and not a professional grower, I think I'd like to try for a
"permanent" installation.

The drip lines seem to be rather finicky over the long run. I'm
wondering if I could install a series of soaker hoses to replace the
drip lines? Does anyone know of a length limitation in a long line of
connected soaker hoses?

"Fleemo" asked this:

Does anyone know of a length limitation in a long line of
connected soaker hoses?

Ditto that question!

And how long does a basic Wal-Mart soaker hose last if buried?

And do you snake them around the plants? Or just lay it in a straight run?

And do you place it on the dirt under the mulch or do you actually bury it
an inch or two?

Sheesh, didn't even know I had those questions in me!

Thx in advance,
John
Austin, Tex
Where we are thankful it is only 90 degrees today!


"Fleemo" wrote in message
om...
Thanks for the input here folks.

Replacing the entire system of drip lines in my garden would be a
large and rather expensive chore every season. As a gardening
hobbiest and not a professional grower, I think I'd like to try for a
"permanent" installation.

The drip lines seem to be rather finicky over the long run. I'm
wondering if I could install a series of soaker hoses to replace the
drip lines? Does anyone know of a length limitation in a long line of
connected soaker hoses?

Fleemo wrote:

Thanks for the input here folks.

Replacing the entire system of drip lines in my garden would be a
large and rather expensive chore every season. As a gardening
hobbiest and not a professional grower, I think I'd like to try for a
"permanent" installation.

The drip lines seem to be rather finicky over the long run. I'm
wondering if I could install a series of soaker hoses to replace the
drip lines? Does anyone know of a length limitation in a long line of
connected soaker hoses?



The length limitation in drip lines is related to (1) the total flow and
(2) the elevation variation. For soaker hoses running at line pressure,
the elevation variation should be relatively unimportant assuming your
garden is not on the side of a large slope. The flow is important
because (1) limitations in the source and (2) pressure drop along the
line. If you are using a large diameter soaker hose you are unlikely to
run into a length limitation unless you are running it more than 500 ft.
Thin soaker hoses would have a shorter useful length. I've forgotten
whatever fluid dynamics I ever knew (which wasn't much to begin with),
but I have a vague impression that the line friction varies with the
inverse cube of the diameter. At any rate it's a fairly strong function
as the tube dimensions get smaller.

If you are running the soaker less than 100 ft, there shouldn't be a
problem with any of the hoses I've seen. More than that, you might want
to put them in parallel. If you have a lot of them, you might want to
arrange them in zones so that your water source can keep up with them.

One problem with permanent installations is rodents chewing on tubing.
You might want to consider some way to tell if you have leaks in your
system. Maybe a pressure gauge at both ends of the tube would help. An
increase in the pressure differential would indicate an increased flow
(a leak).

Drip lines are built with emitters that are based on turbulent flow
through a small channel. Soaker hoses are built with holes. If the holes
enlarge with time, you will get a larger water output (and possibly more
non-uniformity of watering). In my opinion, the drip lines will retain
their uniformity longer, but I haven't done any permanent installations,
so I'm not an expert. However, people who use drip on orchards and
berries use drip lines rather than soaker hoses. (Probably in part
because drip line is cheaper in the quantities needed for large areas.)

Filters are recommended for drip lines. The simplest filter is a disk
filter, which costs around $10-15 for up to 10-15 gpm flow. The filters
keep particles out of the drip lines which could clog the emitters or
the regulating channels. Filters are essential for any open source
(water pumped from a stream or pond). For a residential water system,
you might be able to get away without one, but they're cheap, so it's
probably better to use one.

"John T. Jarrett" wrote:

...And how long does a basic Wal-Mart soaker hose last if buried?

I'm not familiar with that brand, but they're probably cheap plastic.
The plastic might last 2-5 years depending on what chews on it, but the
fittings (also cheap) can degrade when buried (particularly if you have
acid soil). Get a soaker hose that you can replace the fittings on when
they go bad (i.e. a hose with a round cross section, or one that can be
expanded to fit onto one of those plastic replacement fittings).




And do you snake them around the plants? Or just lay it in a straight run?

It depends on the type of soil you have. In sandy soil the water will
not spread out much, so you want it as close to the plant as you can get
it. In clay soil it will spread out a lot, so the straight run should be
fine.




And do you place it on the dirt under the mulch or do you actually bury it
an inch or two?


If it is exposed to the sun, expansion and contraction will cause it to
"walk" around the garden. You can pin it in place, but it will move
around between the pins. Burying it a couple of inches is recommended,
whether it's buried in dirt or under mulch is probably irrelevant.

Dwight, thanks for the thorough response!

The reason I was entertaining the idea of a soaker hose as opposed to
a dripline is that I keep having trouble with spotty watering. Some
emitters seem to flow freely, while entire sections of hose seem to
barely emit any water at all. I do have a filter on the system and
flush it occasionally, but this dripline system is proving to be a
source of inifinite frustration.

-Fleemo



Dwight Sipler wrote in message ...
Fleemo wrote:

Thanks for the input here folks.

Replacing the entire system of drip lines in my garden would be a
large and rather expensive chore every season. As a gardening
hobbiest and not a professional grower, I think I'd like to try for a
"permanent" installation.

The drip lines seem to be rather finicky over the long run. I'm
wondering if I could install a series of soaker hoses to replace the
drip lines? Does anyone know of a length limitation in a long line of
connected soaker hoses?



The length limitation in drip lines is related to (1) the total flow and
(2) the elevation variation. For soaker hoses running at line pressure,
the elevation variation should be relatively unimportant assuming your
garden is not on the side of a large slope. The flow is important
because (1) limitations in the source and (2) pressure drop along the
line. If you are using a large diameter soaker hose you are unlikely to
run into a length limitation unless you are running it more than 500 ft.
Thin soaker hoses would have a shorter useful length. I've forgotten
whatever fluid dynamics I ever knew (which wasn't much to begin with),
but I have a vague impression that the line friction varies with the
inverse cube of the diameter. At any rate it's a fairly strong function
as the tube dimensions get smaller.

If you are running the soaker less than 100 ft, there shouldn't be a
problem with any of the hoses I've seen. More than that, you might want
to put them in parallel. If you have a lot of them, you might want to
arrange them in zones so that your water source can keep up with them.

One problem with permanent installations is rodents chewing on tubing.
You might want to consider some way to tell if you have leaks in your
system. Maybe a pressure gauge at both ends of the tube would help. An
increase in the pressure differential would indicate an increased flow
(a leak).

Drip lines are built with emitters that are based on turbulent flow
through a small channel. Soaker hoses are built with holes. If the holes
enlarge with time, you will get a larger water output (and possibly more
non-uniformity of watering). In my opinion, the drip lines will retain
their uniformity longer, but I haven't done any permanent installations,
so I'm not an expert. However, people who use drip on orchards and
berries use drip lines rather than soaker hoses. (Probably in part
because drip line is cheaper in the quantities needed for large areas.)

Filters are recommended for drip lines. The simplest filter is a disk
filter, which costs around $10-15 for up to 10-15 gpm flow. The filters
keep particles out of the drip lines which could clog the emitters or
the regulating channels. Filters are essential for any open source
(water pumped from a stream or pond). For a residential water system,
you might be able to get away without one, but they're cheap, so it's
probably better to use one.

Fleemo
For what its worth, my experience: very similar to yours. I find drippers
very unreliable and must be individually checked 2 -3 times a year. Usually
I find 10-15% of them not working correctly each time I check. I have not
used drippers installed directly in 1/2" line but on the ends of 1/4 " tube
off 1/2" line; lines are buried but drippers are not. If they were, checking
would be a nightmare. Besides, burying drippers means soil can get sucked in
under some conditions when water is shuts off e.g. suction caused by
downhill portion of line.
Have also had the same problem with 1/4" drip line with drippers in line
every 6". I don't dare bury that stuff! BTW almost all my equipment is
Raindrip.
Having drippers go bad on perrenial beds is exasperating enough but for
shrubs and trees it can be very sad and expensive.
For the latter, I always use a minimium of 4 drippers per location just for
insurance.
For individual plants/perrenial beds, I have ripped out most off the
drippers and gone to sprinklers, not just because of unreliablility and
placement and checking headaches but I also do not find drippers spread the
water enough for my soil (loam) and plant spacings.
For veggie gardens (and also hanging baskets and pots), I use 1/4" porous
soaker line from Orbit laid on top of soil off my 1/2" header line.. It
seems to work well for row planting and is fairly inexpensive too replace if
needed. Also it is easily moved out off the way for tilling each spring. Do
not use lengths of more than 10 - 15 feet as the output beyond that drops
dramatically. I also use these in conjunction with in-line 1/4" adjustable
shut off valves (Orbit) which I find very useful for regulation especially
in mixed dripper/sprinkler/soaker applications and with pots/ baskets.

Water is from a well and thus cheap! P.S. I would ALWAYS use a 150 mesh
filter for all dripper systems. They are inexpensive and do help here with
drippers clogging. You never can be sure, even on city water, when
maintenance crews (or nature) are going to send out a "shot" of particles. I
have very few particles in the water but it contains iron bacteria which
clogs drips. Filter seems to catch this but does nothing for my hard water
which I suspect also helps clog drippers.
Also I pay careful attention to anti-syphon devices. With "global warming"
(???) weather causing so much disruption of water and power services, and
the growing list of contaminants (SARS virus, giant pig farms, mad cow
disease, etc), I don't think the manufacturers of DIY irrigation equipment
emphasize this aspect enough.
Just my 2 cents worth of experience over 3 years and with 7 valved/timed
zones.
Zone 4 gardener
"jc" wrote in message
...
"Fleemo" wrote in message
om...
When I installed my drip-line hoses (Rain Drip Drip-A-Long 1/2" hoses
with emitters every 18") I buried them about an inch in the soil. I'm
having some trouble with them now, and on Rain Drip's website they say
to keep the emitters out of the dirt. What do folks in this newsgroup
do? Do you bury the hoses in the dirt, only cover them with mulch, or
what?

Drip tape and 1/4 inch drip line with inline emitters are run at 10-15
psi and the output will be restricted if it surrounded by waterpacked
soil - more of a problem with clay soil, less with sandy soil.
Dripworks' (www.dripworksusa.com) 1/2 inch drip lines with extruded
inline emitters are run from 25 psi up to line pressure and can be
buried but work better on the soil surface. Any drip system lasts
longer when it is protected (covered) from the sun with organic mulch
that does not block emitter output. -Olin

Wow, I really appreciate all the excellent feedback I've received
here. You guys are great!

One final question... does anyone know whether the color of the
plastic emitter (barely visible in the tiny holes in the 1/2" black
plastic tubing) indicates the flow rate of the emitters? I started
off with a drip-line using green emitters, then inadvertantly replaced
damaged sections with drip-line using yellow emitters. The yellow
ones don't seem to work nearly as well, yet they're all I can find in
the stores now. To date, my e-mailed inquirey to RainBird has gone
unanswered.

Fleemo wrote:

One final question... does anyone know whether the color of the
plastic emitter (barely visible in the tiny holes in the 1/2" black
plastic tubing) indicates the flow rate of the emitters? I started
off with a drip-line using green emitters, then inadvertantly replaced
damaged sections with drip-line using yellow emitters. The yellow
ones don't seem to work nearly as well, yet they're all I can find in
the stores now. To date, my e-mailed inquirey to RainBird has gone
unanswered.

Try their website:
http://www.rainbird.com/drip/product...ssure_comp.htm

Light brown, 5 GPH
Violet, 7 GPH
Green, 10 GPH
Dark brown, 12 GPH
White, 18 GPH
Orange, 24 GPH


--
Warren H.

==========
Disclaimer: My views reflect those of myself, and not my
employer, my friends, nor (as she often tells me) my wife.
Any resemblance to the views of anybody living or dead is
coincidental. No animals were hurt in the writing of this
response -- unless you count my dog who desperately wants
to go outside now.

"Warren" wrote in message news:HZaDa.823275$OV.778812@rwcrnsc54...
Fleemo wrote:

One final question... does anyone know whether the color of the
plastic emitter (barely visible in the tiny holes in the 1/2" black
plastic tubing) indicates the flow rate of the emitters? I started
off with a drip-line using green emitters, then inadvertantly replaced
damaged sections with drip-line using yellow emitters. The yellow
ones don't seem to work nearly as well, yet they're all I can find in
the stores now. To date, my e-mailed inquirey to RainBird has gone
unanswered.

Try their website:
http://www.rainbird.com/drip/product...ssure_comp.htm

Light brown, 5 GPH
Violet, 7 GPH
Green, 10 GPH
Dark brown, 12 GPH
White, 18 GPH
Orange, 24 GPH


--
Warren H.


Thanks for the input, Warren, but the emitters I'm referring to are
built in to the lengths of drip line hose, not the ones you punch into
regular plastic tubing. I'm pretty sure they have a different
color-coding for the built-in emitters. Otherwise, each time I've
watered over the last two years I've splashed around 30 gallons of
water on my plants! (Funny, I don't remember putting in a pool back
here.)

Thanks!

-Fleemo