Today when I came home from work, I had a late fall fairy moment.
When I got out of the car, oldest son hollers at me from upstairs that
I'd better check my front garden, because apparently he'd not been
paying attention and both dawgs were outside. But the worst part
wasn't that both were outside, because Rose is a good girl. But Rose
doesn't tell Sugar not to do things.........

This was bad news to me because I had come home with the intent on
getting some beautiful unusual fall weather garden stuff done. I
walked along the front looking and stopped short when I came to where
the yellow, and the orange kniphofia HAD been planted. And the clump
of geraniums that had resisted my diggings a few years ago and have
graced me with fleeting blossoms.....and lord knows what else.
Because there was a hole going to Australia (Hi Pen!!) and about
three foot wide.................................arghhhhhhhhhh hh

Mike comes out the front door and informs me that Sugar and Rose had
been out all day since his brother had gone to work this morning at 8.
I pointed to the massive hole and he dropped his jaw and I then told
him to get Sugar for me. Apparently she KNEW she'd done something
wrong like she always does, and had been hiding under his covers ever
since he'd discovered them outside and gotten them back in the house..
So I called her and dragged her dawg ass out the front door over to
the pit she'd dug and dragged her muzzle thru the dirt yelling at her
"what did you DO????? BAAAADDDDD DAWG, NO" about 30 seconds of this
with her curled into a grubworm position I then picked her bodily up
and handed her to Mike, no small feat since she weighs 50 pounds now
and I have no business doing this at the moment.

I then tell him to put her butt in the house and please go get a bag
of the topsoil under the black cherry tree, and I filled up the pit
with the whole 40 pounds of soil, and unpotted an aster and some other
plants that somehow have survived despite the frosts lately. So help
me if she digs these up I'll have her for dinner............(not
really, but eventually she'll figure out this is NOT the thing to do
or "mama will be torked off"

After I got over the initial rage, I was done with it and happened to
look over at the Mexican Sage I have gotten from the lady down the
road and was blessed with the sight of the most incredible fairy.
Flitting about thru the Blue Enigma and the sage. I had Mike go get
the camera and I proceeded to try and capture her beauty. I have some
awesome shots of her on the sage. The underside of her is breath
taking, but I finally got the outer side of her and the orangeness of
her against the soft lavender and darker lavendar fuzz of the Mexican
sage is unworthy of words.

There are still a few flowers going, the Gaura has dark pink and
burgandy flowers hovering above dark burgandy and green leaves in a
pot, two Tequila sunrise coreopsis have sprung up in another pot. The
Enigma is going in both spots, the Mexican sage, a little yellow
composite I can't identify. The arum lilies are all leafed out now
and stand out with their silver and green mottled leaves.

The mimosa that died six years ago in the fence row gave up a whole
section and just missed my Diablo ninebark, Loripedilum and Wine and
Roses weigelia, and there are fat buds on the old lilac that reminds
me I need to take out another older branch before next spring to get
larger blossoms.

I will plant the burning bushes, pieris and rhodie tomorrow as it will
be the last day of 70 degree weather until the weather goddess decides
to grace us with warmth. After tomorrow, rains move back in, followed
by temperatures in the low 20's and highs barely getting to 50. The
bulbs might get planted too, but I have to find a place to tuck them
into a spot where Sugar won't uproot them. I'd hate to go thru all
this to have her uncover my efforts. She has a bad habit of returning
to the scene of the crime and recommiting it. It took several digs in
the NSSG where the departed pulmonaria lived before she got that I was
going to kill her if she unearthed the remaining plants again.

The spot she persisted at now houses Ruby slippers lobelias and an
Itea bush. If I have to I'll lay chicken wire down on the soil to
prevent her from digging up the soil where it's seemingly bare.

Thanks for letting me share a more "normal" moment with ya'll. I hope
everyone has a great holiday. anyone wishing to see the pics I took
today just give me a holler and I'll JPEG 'em to you.

,madgardener up on the ridge, back in fairy holler overlooking English
Mountain in Eastern Tennessee, zone 7, Sunset zone 36

madgardener wrote:

So I called her and dragged her dawg ass out the front door over to
the pit she'd dug and dragged her muzzle thru the dirt yelling at her
"what did you DO????? BAAAADDDDD DAWG, NO" about 30 seconds of this

Why are you mad at the dog instead of your sons, who left them unsupervised?

For what it's worth, your dog most likely associates your yelling with her
most recent action...coming to you before being dragged outside.

If you doubt this... Next time, try getting her to come again immediately
after the yelling. If she thinks coming is a good thing and digging is the
bad thing, she won't hesitate to come.


Eric

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:27:05 -0600, wrote:

madgardener wrote:

So I called her and dragged her dawg ass out the front door over to
the pit she'd dug and dragged her muzzle thru the dirt yelling at her
"what did you DO????? BAAAADDDDD DAWG, NO" about 30 seconds of this

Why are you mad at the dog instead of your sons, who left them unsupervised?

For what it's worth, your dog most likely associates your yelling with her
most recent action...coming to you before being dragged outside.

This struck me, too. Our NPR station carries 'Calling All Pets' (from
Wisconson Public Radio -- http://www.wpr.org/pets/) with animal
behaviorist Tricia McConnell. Her training advice is almost
universally directed toward encouraging good behavior and training
animals out of bad habits. Unless they're 'caught in the act' (or
preferably just as the idea is forming :-), it is virtually useless to
punish them for a prior (even a couple minutes prior) act.

Dr. McConnell, a very bright and cheerful woman, as well as a sound
academic, has written several books on (mostly) dog training that may
be available in your library. She even had a good tip recently about
keeping neighbors' dogs from pooping on your lawn. Send me a SASE and
$10, and I'll reveal the secret. :-) Since digging is a common
problem, I'm sure she deals with that.

Genuinely sorry about your flowers, Mad.

On Sat, 22 Nov 2003 20:27:05 -0600, wrote:

madgardener wrote:

So I called her and dragged her dawg ass out the front door over to
the pit she'd dug and dragged her muzzle thru the dirt yelling at her
"what did you DO????? BAAAADDDDD DAWG, NO" about 30 seconds of this

Why are you mad at the dog instead of your sons, who left them unsupervised?

I WAS mad at my son who unsupervised them (he just ignored the fact
that he didn't see them when he got up and immediately went upstairs
to his computer, where he stayed all day.) He knows I'm not happy
about his inconsideration.

For what it's worth, your dog most likely associates your yelling with her
most recent action...coming to you before being dragged outside.

no as a matter of fact, as soon as I started to drag her outside, she
acted as if she knew. And when I let her loose and told her to go into
the house, she didn't book off, she went into the house. When I called
her to come to me later on, she came to me. She sat near me all night
when I was on the couch, when I was here at the computer she sat on my
foot. I petted her, told her I loved her and spoke softly to her. When
we ate chicken, I shared the bones with Rose, Pesters and Sugar
because the punishment was over.

If you doubt this... Next time, try getting her to come again immediately
after the yelling. If she thinks coming is a good thing and digging is the
bad thing, she won't hesitate to come.

I yelled for Rose this morning when I let her outside and then called
Sugar and she came immediately. Want to know worse???? During this
long time of no one watching her, she dug 1/2 of my BBQ pit garden and
destroyed about $200 worth of plants with a hole that went three foot
deep by three foot, dug up the pot on the deck that had ablemouschous
Cherry Lips roots in it to winter over from Mary Emma and lord knows
what else I'll find she had time to dig up when I wander around the
garden areas. This dog is smart. Yes, she is a puppy, but she learns,
and she's older now. Almost eight months. And she KNOWS when she does
things we disapprove of. When she ripped up my youngest son's hat
(he's 29) she KNEW she had done wrong because when he woke up and
discovered it torn up and went looking for her to show her the hat,
she had already gone and hidden. This is a smart but disturbed dog
and eventually she'll be awesome. But right now she's racking up
points to be taken to the shelter and put down. I won't give up yet,
but the orders around here are to NOT let her out unsupervised at all
by ANYONE. One more massive earth moving episode will get her put
down. I can't take all this stress. And YES, it's ONLY PLANTS. BUT
right now my stress level is peaked out. These were plants I CAN'T
replace that have sentemental value. Yes they're ONLY PLANTS, but
gardening is my release valve. Yesterday I planted things into the
hole I found first and didn't think about the plants she destroyed in
her digging in the front bed because what was lost I CAN replace, just
not the maturity. (the poker's were three and six years old, how do
you replace mature perennials like that? And pokers resent being
disturbed once planted, as some perennials do) The pulmonaria can be
replaced, but only thru mail order as no one around here has the
insight to carry them. Not even the Lowe's I work at.

The plants I lost in the fountain garden were three years old and
until I get home and survey the damage, I won't know what all is lost.
But it appears the first successful growing of Helenium has been wiped
out and those were two years old. Again, something I will have to mail
order as no one has the insight to carry them around here.

You're fine in your critisisms of me, but I don't abuse this dog. This
is a well loved, well fed dog that has another dog for companionship,
we play with her, provide her with rawhide chewies, give her attention
when she's awake and while she sleeps beside us. She's not tied
outside and left alone, she even has the companionship of two of our
cats. I suspect this dog has behavior problems and I'm willing to
try, but with the stresses of my life at the moment, this is what I
don't need. It's bad timing. And yes, I"M the one who brought her
home. But with upcoming unemployment on my husbands job which brings
in the bulk of the bill money, and my cut hours, and the other son not
finding a job yet, it's possible that the lifestyle she has gotten
will change drastically. Two dogs eat a LOT of food, I'll give her to
someone else who can provide a home for her if I have to but she has
problems and problem dogs don't get second chances. Now enough said.
I've spoken my peace and defended myself and that's all you'll get out
of me from here.
madgardener


Eric

O
This struck me, too. Our NPR station carries 'Calling All Pets' (from
Wisconson Public Radio -- http://www.wpr.org/pets/) with animal
behaviorist Tricia McConnell. Her training advice is almost
universally directed toward encouraging good behavior and training
animals out of bad habits. Unless they're 'caught in the act' (or
preferably just as the idea is forming :-), it is virtually useless to
punish them for a prior (even a couple minutes prior) act.

Dr. McConnell, a very bright and cheerful woman, as well as a sound
academic, has written several books on (mostly) dog training that may
be available in your library. She even had a good tip recently about
keeping neighbors' dogs from pooping on your lawn. Send me a SASE and
$10, and I'll reveal the secret. :-) Since digging is a common
problem, I'm sure she deals with that.

Genuinely sorry about your flowers, Mad.

thanks honey. just ended my day badly, and started my day off worse
when I discovered the other destruction she'd done yesterday I didn't
find. and no, I didn't punish her today. that's stupid. I yelled at
oldest son for not noticing her outside. I also put my foot down and
told everyone in the house that this dog is not to be let out unless
someone is supervising. No more letting her and Rose out to do their
business and have freedoms. I'm not willing to pen this dog up
because I live in the country and don't believe in it unless you live
around other people and animals. I live isolated to a large degree and
she's not distroyed Miss Mary's gardens or yard. Just mine. Not the
woods (where she could dig to Australia if she desired and I'd not
care) or the pastures next door where there are acres to dig, no MY
gardens I've worked at for the last eight years. Like I said before,
they're only plants, but with my stress levels up with the job
situations and my health still questionable and everything else, well
you might understand. And this dog actually acts like she knows she's
done something bad before you find what she's done. it's spooky.
That's why I say she's smart. Eventually if I don't kill her (just
kidding) she'll be a great dog and will replace Rose when she passes
on. off to work to struggle thru the day on concrete
maddie

there is a big difference between "expert" and "on the radio and especially on the
TV". As I live in Wisconsin and catch the show every now and then I can say I am not
impressed.
there are dogs called "hunting dogs" genetically wired to be stubborn (or the dog
dont hunt!), pleasing people is secondary to their "job". I have both hard headed
hunting stock Springers and soft little toy dogs, Poms and Paps that are bred to
PLEASE people. It is like the two groups are from different planets. SkippyPB the
Pom poor baby was my first toy dog ever. I soon learned that the training
techniques I used with springers, like hauling them around, yelling at em, rewarding
with food, etc. wasnt going to work with the little guy. Hunting dogs are incredibly
pain tolerant, physically and emotionally. I dont even raise my voice to the little
ones. Yelling "what did you do" to a little un sends them nearly into shock.
OTOH, if I dont go over the top physically and emotionally with Harry Potter my 9 mo
ESS, he WONT LISTEN. example: Harry has squashed Foxy my 15+ yo Pom to the floor
using one of his big paws and is using her to dust the floor. She is making what
little crying noises she can in her compressed state. I dont talk nicely to Harry
...... I come out screaming like a banshee and chase him into the other room where I
grab his collar and drag him back to his cage yelling NO, NO, NO.
example: my slippers. He got em, he's chewing. I get the slippers away from him,
whack him with the slippers yelling NO, NO, NO. Then I offer him the slippers and if
he makes a motion to touch them he gets whacked while I yell NO, NO, NO. Then I toss
him the slippers and try every way I can to tempt him to touch the slippers until he
shows big eyes and backs off. This is called aversion training for big stubborn
hunting dogs. And guess what, he hasnt tried to sneak one of my slippers in 2
months. Dragging a big stubborn hunting dog to a hole and screaming at em is called
aversion therapy. It would be better to follow this up every day with the dog on a
leash dragging them up to the flower beds and yelling no... play catch for a while
and throw the item into the flower beds do everything possible to temp her to STEP
INTO the flower beds and make her very very averse. this is also how to teach em not
to jump up, how to stay indoors with a door open, how to stay within the properly
line, and a whole slew of other behaviors.
It is not a good idea to call the dog and then punish, this is true. But with hard
headed hunting dogs all you gotta do is give em food when called once outta every 10
times and those dogs will always come (unless they got a nose on game). Aversion to
coming is more likely to happen with what passes for hunting dogs at dog shows. They
been bred for "looks" and everything else has been allowed to slide until they have
become these neurotic, peeing all over themselves dogs that cant be left alone for 2
minutes without tearing the whole house apart. And worse yet is what comes outta
puppy mills. They are physical, emotional and temperamental horrors of dogs.

Marilyn was doing exactly what was necessary to get the big lug to stay outta her
gardens. Ingrid



Frogleg wrote:
Her training advice is almost
universally directed toward encouraging good behavior and training
animals out of bad habits. Unless they're 'caught in the act' (or
preferably just as the idea is forming :-), it is virtually useless to
punish them for a prior (even a couple minutes prior) act.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

you just go ahead and work with aversion training and they will both be allowed out
and have their freedoms.
HarryP is our replacement for Charlie and I feel the same way. But Harry is even
more "country dog" bred for hunting than Charlie. Harry consistently retrieved his
toys at 8 weeks. Altho very food driven, he would "leave it" his food at 10 weeks
until given the release. We just gotta get thru his puppy hood. Ingrid

madgardener wrote:
. I also put my foot down and
told everyone in the house that this dog is not to be let out unless
someone is supervising. No more letting her and Rose out to do their
business and have freedoms.
Eventually if I don't kill her (just
kidding) she'll be a great dog and will replace Rose when she passes
on. off to work to struggle thru the day on concrete
maddie



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

another reason for aversion training.... HarryP doesnt know what NOT to eat. Ingrid

madgardener wrote:
During thislong time of no one watching her, she dug 1/2 of my BBQ pit garden and
destroyed about $200 worth of plants with a hole that went three foot
deep by three foot, dug up the pot on the deck that had ablemouschous
Cherry Lips roots in it to winter over from Mary Emma and lord knows


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

madgardener wrote in
:

When
we ate chicken, I shared the bones with Rose, Pesters and Sugar
because the punishment was over.


Chicken bones? I'm no dog expert but I have seen a dog suffer from
internal lacerations from chicken bones. Not a pleasant way to go.

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 16:37:16 GMT, wrote:

there is a big difference between "expert" and "on the radio and especially on the
TV". As I live in Wisconsin and catch the show every now and then I can say I am not
impressed
snip
Marilyn was doing exactly what was necessary to get the big lug to stay outta her
gardens.

We had a Cocker Spaniel when I was a kid that dug holes every time he
was left alone in the yard. And every time, my father would drag him
to the hole, rub his nose in it, and whack him with a newspaper. We
probably had that dog for 5 years, and he *never* quit digging holes.
Either the dog or my father was a slow learner.

McConnell impresses the hell out of me. She *does* do animal training
for a living, and while I don't have a disobedient dog to practice on
she certainly seems to promote very sound methods. A *lot* of animal
training takes time and dreary repetition. She claims, and I have no
reason to doubt, to have trained her dogs to go *around* her
flowerbeds. [The trick involves having a clearly defined border,
body-blocking the animal as it approaches, and rewarding it when it
turns away.]

As for "knowing he's guilty," I do have doubts about that. When you
approach an animal with heavy breathing and fire in your eye, he
probably expects *something's* wrong and he's in for a bad time, even
if he has absolutely no memory of the cause.

The message
from madgardener contains these words:
When
we ate chicken, I shared the bones with Rose, Pesters and Sugar
because the punishment was over.

Cooked chicken bones are a big no-no for cats and dogs; they make
splinters which could penetrate the gut and cost a lot of pain and
money. Our dogs only get fresh raw beef bones. Free from the butcher;
strictly for outdoor consumption :~}

And she KNOWS when she does
things we disapprove of.

In many ways, a bright young dog is similar to an active toddler. Both
understand adult words, voice tone, body language, and roughly what
behaviour is expected or tolerated, but are highly unlikely to be "good"
or compliant all the time. Their self-control is very un-developed and
frequently overwhelmed by desire, curiousity and growing independence.
They have a low boredom threshold and a lot of energy.

This
is a well loved, well fed dog that has another dog for companionship,
we play with her, provide her with rawhide chewies, give her attention
when she's awake and while she sleeps beside us. She's not tied
outside and left alone, she even has the companionship of two of our
cats.

My guess is, she's bored and lonely and needs more human company and walks.

All those nice things above are no substitute for what lively young
pet dogs want most of all, which is daily energetic outings in human
company. Lots of running excercise and the mental and sensory
stimulation of somewhere different from home and garden.Some energetic
work-breed pet dogs (border collie, german shepherd, dalmatian,
retriever, to name a few) ideally need to run about 10 miles every day
during their youthful years, to keep them happy and physically and
mentally healthy. Other breeds and age groups are satisfied with less.

If owners can't provide sufficient walks/company for a particular dog's
needs, sometimes the most loving thing they can do is have it rehomed.
I've acquired two wonderful dogs from exactly that circumstance, so
there can be a happy ending.

Janet.

Xref: kermit rec.gardens:257064

On Sun, 23 Nov 2003 09:11:56 -0500, madgardener
wrote:

just ended my day badly, and started my day off worse
when I discovered the other destruction she'd done yesterday I didn't
find. and no, I didn't punish her today. that's stupid. I yelled at
oldest son for not noticing her outside. I also put my foot down and
told everyone in the house that this dog is not to be let out unless
someone is supervising. No more letting her and Rose out to do their
business and have freedoms. I'm not willing to pen this dog up
because I live in the country and don't believe in it unless you live
around other people and animals. I live isolated to a large degree and
she's not distroyed Miss Mary's gardens or yard. Just mine. Not the
woods (where she could dig to Australia if she desired and I'd not
care) or the pastures next door where there are acres to dig, no MY
gardens I've worked at for the last eight years.

Oh, then you're human? :-) Subject to frustration and fatigue?
Occasionally go all purple and regret it in a few minutes? Truly, Mad,
if you can get a copy of one of McConnell's books and persuade your
co-habitees to help, you might be able to prevent the damage. Since
digging is such a common problem, I'm *sure* she has some material on
it. Am *still* trying to persuade my sister (with a lively home-alone
Airedale) to check out the books, which I discovered her library
*does* have. Sister mentioned the dog's chewing on interior drywall,
f'r heaven's sake, and lo, something similar showed up as a question
(with a solution) on the radio program.

Dig to Australia? I always thought if we dug deep enough, we'd get to
China. I think I dug a few holes myself, as a kid, toward that goal.

it is best to give chicken with bones raw as they digest em the best, get the most
nutrition. but even cooked chicken bones are mostly air, and the acid in the dogs
stomach dissolves such thin bones. and this is what a vet told me when I was
concerned about my ESS eating cooked chicken bones. bird dogs wont eat raw bird, but
they LOVE cooked bird. thats why they bring the birds back to their master, to cook
em for them... LOL. my little guys get frozen chicken wing tips. it is highly
recommended for keeping the plaque off their teeth and their teeth well exercised so
they dont lose their teeth early, as most toy dogs do. Ingrid

GaryM wrote:
Chicken bones? I'm no dog expert but I have seen a dog suffer from
internal lacerations from chicken bones. Not a pleasant way to go.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

cocker spaniels used to be a hunting dog. then they became popular and the breed was
basically ruined by wanton over breeding. yes, they are incredibly stupid, like
trying to train an Afghan, it isnt that it cant be done, but it is amazing when it is
done.
Lots of people "do" dog training. I have seen various methods come and go, the
latest rage is "clicker" training... originally designed for porpoises who hear well
in that range. ah well. it isnt how well she can train dogs, it is how many people
drop out in frustration trying to get their hunting dogs trained being "nice".
I agree, training (like with a kid) is nag, nag, nag and constant reminding, and
saying the same command every time and enforcing it.
when a person walks in the door and the dog that is normally waiting to greet them is
hiding instead, I think one can make some deductions about dog behavior then.
OTOH, when I yell "what did you do" at my dogs for no reason, they look back blankly
(well, all but one who was raised Catholic). It like the dogs dont attack the
garbage when I am in the kitchen, but if I leave the door op;en and leave all bets
are off. And if I am sitting at my puter and a dog slinks by ears flat and looking
back at me I had better go and check the house over. Ingrid

Frogleg wrote:
We had a Cocker Spaniel
McConnell impresses the hell out of me. She *does* do animal training
for a living,
A *lot* of animal
training takes time and dreary repetition.

As for "knowing he's guilty," I do have doubts about that. When you
approach an animal with heavy breathing and fire in your eye, he
probably expects *something's* wrong and he's in for a bad time, even
if he has absolutely no memory of the cause.



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.

madgardener wrote:

You're fine in your critisisms of me

Not trying to criticize. I'm sorry if that's how I came across. I love
reading your posts, Mad. When it comes to knowledge about plants, you're
right up there. I'm new around here, and I don't have a lot of plant
knowledge to share. I'm fairly knowledgeable when it comes to dogs,
however, and I was trying to constructively share this.

no as a matter of fact, as soon as I started to drag her outside, she
acted as if she knew.

What does she do to act as if she knows? Submissive? Tail between her
legs? Slinking around? Doesn't want to make eye contact? More likely than
not, she's reading your body language. She knows you're ****ed, and she's
submitting to you. While dogs don't have long term memories when it comes
to what they've done and associating that with your current behavior, they
are excellent at figuring out what kind of mood you're in.


Eric