Dandelion is very easy to eradicate. It is a broadleaf plant. Not
seeing your lawn makes it difficult to recommend a specific procedure.
If there are less than 200 plants, use a spot treatment by mixing up
Weed-B-Gone or Spectricide in a pressurized garden sprayer. I prefer
the "water-proof" products where it does not matter if it rains after
6 hours. Apply the treatment on a sunny dry day.

Dandelion is very easy to eradicate. It is a broadleaf plant. Not
seeing your lawn makes it difficult to recommend a specific procedure.
If there are less than 200 plants, use a spot treatment by mixing up
Weed-B-Gone or Spectricide in a pressurized garden sprayer. I prefer
the "water-proof" products where it does not matter if it rains after
6 hours. Apply the treatment on a sunny dry day.

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:51:03 +0000, Pam - gardengal wrote:

Then perhaps you can explain why all of our local area streams and water
courses have been tested and found to be contaminated with unnaturally high
concentrations of 2, 4-D, trifluralin, dicamba and various other herbicides
most commonly found in weed and feed applications? And this is not just a
localized phenomenon - it is wide spread throughout the country and not just
in heavy agricultural areas. The information provided to your by your
turfgrass "experts" simply does not fit the facts. A simple google search
will turn up dozens of hits attesting to this. Herbicide and fertilizer
pollution of is a huge concern, not to mention that stuff can be rather
deadly to pets and small kids as well. Do your own research - don't rely
just on what folks with a vested interest in the process have to say.
Turfgrass 'experts' are unlikely to offer information that is
counterproductive to their source of income or could conceivably be
considered more work.

pam - gardengal

Thanks. One day I hope to know as much as you.

On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 15:51:03 +0000, Pam - gardengal wrote:

Then perhaps you can explain why all of our local area streams and water
courses have been tested and found to be contaminated with unnaturally high
concentrations of 2, 4-D, trifluralin, dicamba and various other herbicides
most commonly found in weed and feed applications? And this is not just a
localized phenomenon - it is wide spread throughout the country and not just
in heavy agricultural areas. The information provided to your by your
turfgrass "experts" simply does not fit the facts. A simple google search
will turn up dozens of hits attesting to this. Herbicide and fertilizer
pollution of is a huge concern, not to mention that stuff can be rather
deadly to pets and small kids as well. Do your own research - don't rely
just on what folks with a vested interest in the process have to say.
Turfgrass 'experts' are unlikely to offer information that is
counterproductive to their source of income or could conceivably be
considered more work.

pam - gardengal

Thanks. One day I hope to know as much as you.

On 29 Feb 2004 15:06:50 -0800, JeffLaw wrote:
We started having weed problems (mostly dandelion) in our lawn last
summer I & was hoping to get some tips for better control this year.

Start out with a good soil test. Your local extension service
will either be able to provide you with a soil test, or provide
addresses of labs that offer soil testing. You'll need to take
a proper sample from several areas of the yard and then mix them
together if the soils appear pretty much the same, or do several
samples if the soils appear different.
http://soiltest.coafes.umn.edu/howtosam.htm

While you're at it, cut a chunk of sod out and take a good look
at it.. are the roots all in the top inch of soil? Is there
a heavy layer of thatch? Is there something different about
soil in the top inch than down a bit further? These are all
cues that you've got work to do on a lawn.

Tell the people doing the soil test that it's a lawn sample, and
you'll probably need recommendations for potassium and phosphorous
and lime for lawns in your area, along with an estimation of soil
texture (my guess is, given lots of dandelions, your soil is probably
pretty compacted and low in organic matter).

Follow the recommendations you'll get back for fertilizing and for
lime (which will require repeated applications, most likely).

Read up on lawn grasses that are useful in your area (again, Extension
Service probably has good pamphlets on this) and with your sun and shade
conditions.

Based on your reading, on the soil analysis, and on how much work you
want to do and when, you may want to zorch the entire lawn, work in
organic matter and/or sand to a goodly depth (and install underground
watering lines, change the drainage around your house, install french
drains, etc.) and start from scratch, or you may want to renovate the
lawn over time. Or you may choose to reduce or eliminate the lawn entirely.

If you do choose lawn, learn to mow properly. You can't let it get
up to the eaves, and then scalp it down to the ground so you only
have to do it once a month or so... for most lawn grasses, you need
to mow fairly high (2-3"), and never remove more than 1/3 of the height
at each mowing. Trust me, mowing more often is much easier than fighting
the battle of the lawn weeds constantly.

The real secret to weed control is "canopy closure"... weeds grow
in open soil. Give your lawn grasses the soil and water and mowing
they need, and they'll crowd out the weeds.

IMHO, a really good book for beginning lawn and garden renovaters is
Anna Carr's Rodale Press book, "Rodale's Chemical-Free Yard and Garden".
They do a nice job of starting with soil and amending it as needed,
then choosing plants suited to your soil and climate - which means a
whole lot less work and expense in the long run. I'm not an organic
gardener (I garden on the LISA model (low-input, sustainable
agriculture)), but the information in this book is pretty solid and
there's nothing in it that can really hurt your community, in contrast
to many of the other lawn care books. And it's readable and doable.

Kay Lancaster

On 29 Feb 2004 15:06:50 -0800, JeffLaw wrote:
We started having weed problems (mostly dandelion) in our lawn last
summer I & was hoping to get some tips for better control this year.

Start out with a good soil test. Your local extension service
will either be able to provide you with a soil test, or provide
addresses of labs that offer soil testing. You'll need to take
a proper sample from several areas of the yard and then mix them
together if the soils appear pretty much the same, or do several
samples if the soils appear different.
http://soiltest.coafes.umn.edu/howtosam.htm

While you're at it, cut a chunk of sod out and take a good look
at it.. are the roots all in the top inch of soil? Is there
a heavy layer of thatch? Is there something different about
soil in the top inch than down a bit further? These are all
cues that you've got work to do on a lawn.

Tell the people doing the soil test that it's a lawn sample, and
you'll probably need recommendations for potassium and phosphorous
and lime for lawns in your area, along with an estimation of soil
texture (my guess is, given lots of dandelions, your soil is probably
pretty compacted and low in organic matter).

Follow the recommendations you'll get back for fertilizing and for
lime (which will require repeated applications, most likely).

Read up on lawn grasses that are useful in your area (again, Extension
Service probably has good pamphlets on this) and with your sun and shade
conditions.

Based on your reading, on the soil analysis, and on how much work you
want to do and when, you may want to zorch the entire lawn, work in
organic matter and/or sand to a goodly depth (and install underground
watering lines, change the drainage around your house, install french
drains, etc.) and start from scratch, or you may want to renovate the
lawn over time. Or you may choose to reduce or eliminate the lawn entirely.

If you do choose lawn, learn to mow properly. You can't let it get
up to the eaves, and then scalp it down to the ground so you only
have to do it once a month or so... for most lawn grasses, you need
to mow fairly high (2-3"), and never remove more than 1/3 of the height
at each mowing. Trust me, mowing more often is much easier than fighting
the battle of the lawn weeds constantly.

The real secret to weed control is "canopy closure"... weeds grow
in open soil. Give your lawn grasses the soil and water and mowing
they need, and they'll crowd out the weeds.

IMHO, a really good book for beginning lawn and garden renovaters is
Anna Carr's Rodale Press book, "Rodale's Chemical-Free Yard and Garden".
They do a nice job of starting with soil and amending it as needed,
then choosing plants suited to your soil and climate - which means a
whole lot less work and expense in the long run. I'm not an organic
gardener (I garden on the LISA model (low-input, sustainable
agriculture)), but the information in this book is pretty solid and
there's nothing in it that can really hurt your community, in contrast
to many of the other lawn care books. And it's readable and doable.

Kay Lancaster

"Stephen M. Henning" wrote in message
news
(JeffLaw) wrote:

We started having weed problems (mostly dandelion) in our
lawn last
summer I & was hoping to get some tips for better control
this year.
I've seen several posts from people saying manually removing
weeds is
the best bet, but each time I've tried that I either don't
get the
roots or leave huge pot holes in my lawn. I've tried several
weed
removal tools (i.e. "as seen on tv" weed pullers) that also
leave the
big holes. I will start using Scott's spring fertilizer with
weed
control soon, but it didn't seem to help much last year. Has
anyone
had luck with any brand of lawn friendly herbicides? Any
weed removal
gardening tool suggestions? Any tips for this lawn care
newbie would
be appreciated .

It sounds like your lawn is not very healthy. A good vigorous
lawn will
crowd out weeds. It will not leave big holes when weeds are
removed.
It could be a pH problem. The fertilizer will do little good
if the
yard is too acid. You may need to lime before fertilizing. A
good soil
test may be in order. It will tell you the pH, how to correct
the pH
and what fertilizer if any you need.

I would second the above, and suggest spraying just the weeds
with weed-b-gon using a handheld trigger sprayer. Once you have
the lawn growing good, wolking around with the sprayer a few
times a year will eliminate the weeds without the expense or
environmental risk of massive chemical applications.

If you only fertilize once per year, do it in the fall.

Bob

"MC" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:00:03 +0000, Pam - gardengal wrote:


"MC" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:50 -0800, JeffLaw wrote:

We started having weed problems (mostly dandelion) in our lawn last
summer I & was hoping to get some tips for better control this year.
I've seen several posts from people saying manually removing weeds is
the best bet, but each time I've tried that I either don't get the
roots or leave huge pot holes in my lawn. I've tried several weed
removal tools (i.e. "as seen on tv" weed pullers) that also leave the
big holes. I will start using Scott's spring fertilizer with weed
control soon, but it didn't seem to help much last year. Has anyone
had luck with any brand of lawn friendly herbicides? Any weed
removal
gardening tool suggestions? Any tips for this lawn care newbie would
be appreciated .

Mechanical weed removal works fine. I have used a combination of that
and
Weed-B-Gon. This method works great on dandelions, creeping charlie
and
other broadleaf pests. I usually make 2-3 applications over the entire
lawn at 2-3 week intervals. Eradicating creeping charlie works best if
you can hit the plant when it is blooming, a period in its life when
all
the plant's energy goes into bloom production thereby weakening it a
bit.

There's nothing wrong with chemicals as long as one uses common sense
and
can read/follow instructions to the letter.

At the risk of starting a huge flame war (and hasn't it been quiet in
that
regard lately?), not all chemical weed controls are exactly benign. I
would
encourage the OP to consider something other than a combo weed'n feed
type
product. This is probably the most inefficient and problematic use of
chemical herbicides. Run off with this type of material is flagrant -
there
is more pollution of streams and ground water from residential use of
weed
and feed products than from any other form of pesticide. Much better to
use
manual control whenever possible or spot treat persistant perennial type
weeds rather than a broadcast granular product.

http://www.huronview.on.ca/gardening_04.html

pam - gardengal


I always felt that runoff is problematic with regard to lawn treatment.
After hearing several lectures by turfgrass experts from the university's
turfgrass facility, I am now of a different opinion. Fertilizers and
chemicals do not wash off lawns and into streams and lakes. They go into
the soil which acts as a giant filter. Chemicals in use now have a short
life of just a few weeks. The only way to get chemicals to our waterways
is to physcially dump them in storm sewers.

I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and tons of
chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to understand the
fuss about home owners using a few pounds of fertilizers and weed killers on
their lawns two or three times a year.

Hound Dog

"MC" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:00:03 +0000, Pam - gardengal wrote:


"MC" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:50 -0800, JeffLaw wrote:

We started having weed problems (mostly dandelion) in our lawn last
summer I & was hoping to get some tips for better control this year.
I've seen several posts from people saying manually removing weeds is
the best bet, but each time I've tried that I either don't get the
roots or leave huge pot holes in my lawn. I've tried several weed
removal tools (i.e. "as seen on tv" weed pullers) that also leave the
big holes. I will start using Scott's spring fertilizer with weed
control soon, but it didn't seem to help much last year. Has anyone
had luck with any brand of lawn friendly herbicides? Any weed
removal
gardening tool suggestions? Any tips for this lawn care newbie would
be appreciated .

Mechanical weed removal works fine. I have used a combination of that
and
Weed-B-Gon. This method works great on dandelions, creeping charlie
and
other broadleaf pests. I usually make 2-3 applications over the entire
lawn at 2-3 week intervals. Eradicating creeping charlie works best if
you can hit the plant when it is blooming, a period in its life when
all
the plant's energy goes into bloom production thereby weakening it a
bit.

There's nothing wrong with chemicals as long as one uses common sense
and
can read/follow instructions to the letter.

At the risk of starting a huge flame war (and hasn't it been quiet in
that
regard lately?), not all chemical weed controls are exactly benign. I
would
encourage the OP to consider something other than a combo weed'n feed
type
product. This is probably the most inefficient and problematic use of
chemical herbicides. Run off with this type of material is flagrant -
there
is more pollution of streams and ground water from residential use of
weed
and feed products than from any other form of pesticide. Much better to
use
manual control whenever possible or spot treat persistant perennial type
weeds rather than a broadcast granular product.

http://www.huronview.on.ca/gardening_04.html

pam - gardengal


I always felt that runoff is problematic with regard to lawn treatment.
After hearing several lectures by turfgrass experts from the university's
turfgrass facility, I am now of a different opinion. Fertilizers and
chemicals do not wash off lawns and into streams and lakes. They go into
the soil which acts as a giant filter. Chemicals in use now have a short
life of just a few weeks. The only way to get chemicals to our waterways
is to physcially dump them in storm sewers.

I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and tons of
chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to understand the
fuss about home owners using a few pounds of fertilizers and weed killers on
their lawns two or three times a year.

Hound Dog

"Hound Dog" wrote in message
...

I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and tons
of
chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to understand the
fuss about home owners using a few pounds of fertilizers and weed killers
on
their lawns two or three times a year.

Hound Dog

A "few pounds of fertilizers and weed killers"? You seriously underestimate
the problem. In my area alone, the EPA estimates 1.1 MILLION pounds of
fertilizers and pesticides are dumped on our lawns annually. And that is
only the urban areas of a 8 county cummulative watershed in an extremely
environmentally conscious section of the country. Multiply that a few
hundred or a thousand times to address other urban areas across the country
and the total rapidly escalates into the billions of pounds. That is not
chump change to the pesticide manfacturers nor is it an insiginificant
impact on our watersheds. .

Unfortunately, a wide segment of the population shares your uninformed view
and the attitude of "what can it hurt if I use lawn chemicals, correctly or
incorrectly - I'm just one person" prevails. Let's look at the statistics -
and they're not even very current. In 1997, 4.6 BILLION pounds of pesticides
(not including fertilizers) were consumed in the US. Of this, about 2/3's
was utilized by the agricultural sector, the remainder by residential
homeowners. That's 1.5 billion pounds attributed to Joe Blow and his
neighbors and the data is six years old - I'd estimate the total is well
above 2 billion by now. Hardly an insignificant amount. This IS a problem


pam - gardengal

I don't care about a lawn actually, so mine is a variegated lawn! Some of
the "weeds" have pretty flowers and others are good for herbal remedies. I
mow when it gets too tall. I try to keep the "lawn" mowed to 3" only, no
shorter. Besides, now I get free food for my tortoise!

--
gloria - only the iguanas know for sure

"Hound Dog" wrote

I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and tons
of
chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to understand the
fuss about home owners using a few pounds of fertilizers and weed killers
on
their lawns two or three times a year.

In my area, homeowners are taxed $50/yr for "runoff" into Chesapeake
Bay. All the stuff that gets washed off the lawn in a good rain goes
right down the storm sewers and into the Bay. Yes, I fuss.

"Pam - gardengal" wrote in message
news:e6m1c.171919$uV3.729831@attbi_s51...

"Hound Dog" wrote in message
...

I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and
tons
of
chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to understand
the
fuss about home owners using a few pounds of fertilizers and weed
killers
on
their lawns two or three times a year.

Hound Dog

A "few pounds of fertilizers and weed killers"? You seriously
underestimate
the problem. In my area alone, the EPA estimates 1.1 MILLION pounds of
fertilizers and pesticides are dumped on our lawns annually. And that is
only the urban areas of a 8 county cummulative watershed in an extremely
environmentally conscious section of the country. Multiply that a few
hundred or a thousand times to address other urban areas across the
country
and the total rapidly escalates into the billions of pounds. That is not
chump change to the pesticide manfacturers nor is it an insiginificant
impact on our watersheds. .

Unfortunately, a wide segment of the population shares your uninformed
view
and the attitude of "what can it hurt if I use lawn chemicals, correctly
or
incorrectly - I'm just one person" prevails. Let's look at the
statistics -
and they're not even very current. In 1997, 4.6 BILLION pounds of
pesticides
(not including fertilizers) were consumed in the US. Of this, about 2/3's
was utilized by the agricultural sector, the remainder by residential
homeowners. That's 1.5 billion pounds attributed to Joe Blow and his
neighbors and the data is six years old - I'd estimate the total is well
above 2 billion by now. Hardly an insignificant amount. This IS a problem


pam - gardengal

Wow! And they accuse Bush of "FUZZY MATH"

MC wrote in
news
On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:00:03 +0000, Pam - gardengal wrote:


"MC" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:50 -0800, JeffLaw wrote:

We started having weed problems (mostly dandelion) in our lawn
last summer I & was hoping to get some tips for better control
this year. I've seen several posts from people saying manually
removing weeds is the best bet, but each time I've tried that I
either don't get the roots or leave huge pot holes in my lawn.
I've tried several weed removal tools (i.e. "as seen on tv" weed
pullers) that also leave the big holes. I will start using
Scott's spring fertilizer with weed control soon, but it didn't
seem to help much last year. Has anyone had luck with any brand
of lawn friendly herbicides? Any weed removal gardening tool
suggestions? Any tips for this lawn care newbie would be
appreciated .

Mechanical weed removal works fine. I have used a combination of
that and Weed-B-Gon. This method works great on dandelions,
creeping charlie and other broadleaf pests. I usually make 2-3
applications over the entire lawn at 2-3 week intervals.
Eradicating creeping charlie works best if you can hit the plant
when it is blooming, a period in its life when all the plant's
energy goes into bloom production thereby weakening it a bit.

There's nothing wrong with chemicals as long as one uses common
sense and can read/follow instructions to the letter.

At the risk of starting a huge flame war (and hasn't it been quiet in
that regard lately?), not all chemical weed controls are exactly
benign. I would encourage the OP to consider something other than a
combo weed'n feed type product. This is probably the most inefficient
and problematic use of chemical herbicides. Run off with this type of
material is flagrant - there is more pollution of streams and ground
water from residential use of weed and feed products than from any
other form of pesticide. Much better to use manual control whenever
possible or spot treat persistant perennial type weeds rather than a
broadcast granular product.

http://www.huronview.on.ca/gardening_04.html

pam - gardengal


I always felt that runoff is problematic with regard to lawn
treatment. After hearing several lectures by turfgrass experts from
the university's turfgrass facility, I am now of a different opinion.
Fertilizers and chemicals do not wash off lawns and into streams and
lakes. They go into the soil which acts as a giant filter. Chemicals
in use now have a short life of just a few weeks. The only way to get
chemicals to our waterways is to physcially dump them in storm sewers.



What do these chemicals you are referring to degrade into?

What is the filtration capacity of a typical lawn?

What happens when the lawn becomes saturated? (if I read some current
post correctly, extremely little soil particulate is incorporated into
plant biomass)

What is the mechanism whereby these new chemicals decompose? I assume
they are not inherently unstable (or else they would lose efficacy in
transit or sitting on the store shelves)

What are some representative products and the university your are
referring to?

"Hound Dog" wrote in
:


I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and
tons of chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to
understand the fuss about home owners using a few pounds of
fertilizers and weed killers on their lawns two or three times a year.


Lucky for you that you woren't the poor sot picking the crops.