"Hound Dog" wrote in
:


I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and
tons of chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to
understand the fuss about home owners using a few pounds of
fertilizers and weed killers on their lawns two or three times a year.


Lucky for you that you woren't the poor sot picking the crops.

"Hound Dog" wrote in
:


I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and
tons of chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to
understand the fuss about home owners using a few pounds of
fertilizers and weed killers on their lawns two or three times a year.


Lucky for you that you woren't the poor sot picking the crops.

"Salty Thumb" wrote in message
...
"Hound Dog" wrote in
:


I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and
tons of chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to
understand the fuss about home owners using a few pounds of
fertilizers and weed killers on their lawns two or three times a year.


Lucky for you that you woren't the poor sot picking the crops.

I did my share of the work on my grandfathers farm when I was a young boy,
including helping to harvest the crops.

I have recently retired and my health is still excellent. My grandfather was
approaching 100 when he died and he was still planting and harvesting crops
the day he passes away. So, what's your point, if you have one?

I guess you eat only organically grown food and have a bicycle to ride on so
you don't pollute the air.

Hound Dog

"Salty Thumb" wrote in message
...
"Hound Dog" wrote in
:


I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and
tons of chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to
understand the fuss about home owners using a few pounds of
fertilizers and weed killers on their lawns two or three times a year.


Lucky for you that you woren't the poor sot picking the crops.

I did my share of the work on my grandfathers farm when I was a young boy,
including helping to harvest the crops.

I have recently retired and my health is still excellent. My grandfather was
approaching 100 when he died and he was still planting and harvesting crops
the day he passes away. So, what's your point, if you have one?

I guess you eat only organically grown food and have a bicycle to ride on so
you don't pollute the air.

Hound Dog

"MC" wrote in message
news
On Mon, 01 Mar 2004 13:00:03 +0000, Pam - gardengal wrote:


"MC" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 29 Feb 2004 15:06:50 -0800, JeffLaw wrote:

We started having weed problems (mostly dandelion) in our lawn last
summer I & was hoping to get some tips for better control this year.
I've seen several posts from people saying manually removing weeds is
the best bet, but each time I've tried that I either don't get the
roots or leave huge pot holes in my lawn. I've tried several weed
removal tools (i.e. "as seen on tv" weed pullers) that also leave the
big holes. I will start using Scott's spring fertilizer with weed
control soon, but it didn't seem to help much last year. Has anyone
had luck with any brand of lawn friendly herbicides? Any weed
removal
gardening tool suggestions? Any tips for this lawn care newbie would
be appreciated .

Mechanical weed removal works fine. I have used a combination of that
and
Weed-B-Gon. This method works great on dandelions, creeping charlie
and
other broadleaf pests. I usually make 2-3 applications over the entire
lawn at 2-3 week intervals. Eradicating creeping charlie works best if
you can hit the plant when it is blooming, a period in its life when
all
the plant's energy goes into bloom production thereby weakening it a
bit.

There's nothing wrong with chemicals as long as one uses common sense
and
can read/follow instructions to the letter.

At the risk of starting a huge flame war (and hasn't it been quiet in
that
regard lately?), not all chemical weed controls are exactly benign. I
would
encourage the OP to consider something other than a combo weed'n feed
type
product. This is probably the most inefficient and problematic use of
chemical herbicides. Run off with this type of material is flagrant -
there
is more pollution of streams and ground water from residential use of
weed
and feed products than from any other form of pesticide. Much better to
use
manual control whenever possible or spot treat persistant perennial type
weeds rather than a broadcast granular product.

http://www.huronview.on.ca/gardening_04.html

pam - gardengal


I always felt that runoff is problematic with regard to lawn treatment.
After hearing several lectures by turfgrass experts from the university's
turfgrass facility, I am now of a different opinion. Fertilizers and
chemicals do not wash off lawns and into streams and lakes. They go into
the soil which acts as a giant filter. Chemicals in use now have a short
life of just a few weeks. The only way to get chemicals to our waterways
is to physcially dump them in storm sewers.

Then perhaps you can explain why all of our local area streams and water
courses have been tested and found to be contaminated with unnaturally high
concentrations of 2, 4-D, trifluralin, dicamba and various other herbicides
most commonly found in weed and feed applications? And this is not just a
localized phenomenon - it is wide spread throughout the country and not just
in heavy agricultural areas. The information provided to your by your
turfgrass "experts" simply does not fit the facts. A simple google search
will turn up dozens of hits attesting to this. Herbicide and fertilizer
pollution of is a huge concern, not to mention that stuff can be rather
deadly to pets and small kids as well. Do your own research - don't rely
just on what folks with a vested interest in the process have to say.
Turfgrass 'experts' are unlikely to offer information that is
counterproductive to their source of income or could conceivably be
considered more work.

pam - gardengal

"Hound Dog" wrote in message
...

"Pam - gardengal" wrote in message
news:e6m1c.171919$uV3.729831@attbi_s51...

"Hound Dog" wrote in message
...

I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and
tons
of
chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to understand
the
fuss about home owners using a few pounds of fertilizers and weed
killers
on
their lawns two or three times a year.

Hound Dog

A "few pounds of fertilizers and weed killers"? You seriously
underestimate
the problem. In my area alone, the EPA estimates 1.1 MILLION pounds of
fertilizers and pesticides are dumped on our lawns annually. And that is
only the urban areas of a 8 county cummulative watershed in an extremely
environmentally conscious section of the country. Multiply that a few
hundred or a thousand times to address other urban areas across the
country
and the total rapidly escalates into the billions of pounds. That is not
chump change to the pesticide manfacturers nor is it an insiginificant
impact on our watersheds. .

Unfortunately, a wide segment of the population shares your uninformed
view
and the attitude of "what can it hurt if I use lawn chemicals,
correctly
or
incorrectly - I'm just one person" prevails. Let's look at the
statistics -
and they're not even very current. In 1997, 4.6 BILLION pounds of
pesticides
(not including fertilizers) were consumed in the US. Of this, about
2/3's
was utilized by the agricultural sector, the remainder by residential
homeowners. That's 1.5 billion pounds attributed to Joe Blow and his
neighbors and the data is six years old - I'd estimate the total is well
above 2 billion by now. Hardly an insignificant amount. This IS a
problem


pam - gardengal

Wow! And they accuse Bush of "FUZZY MATH"


You come out with an uninformed and innaccurate statement which I contest
and then you accuse me of "fuzzy math"?? Okay, if you don't like the
statistics of the EPA then you present to us something to support the
accuracy of your view - if you can. Otherwise, it is evident to anyone with
a wit of intellegence and concern about the situation that you don't have a
clue.

pam - gardengal

"Hound Dog" wrote in message
...

"Pam - gardengal" wrote in message
news:e6m1c.171919$uV3.729831@attbi_s51...

"Hound Dog" wrote in message
...

I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and
tons
of
chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to understand
the
fuss about home owners using a few pounds of fertilizers and weed
killers
on
their lawns two or three times a year.

Hound Dog

A "few pounds of fertilizers and weed killers"? You seriously
underestimate
the problem. In my area alone, the EPA estimates 1.1 MILLION pounds of
fertilizers and pesticides are dumped on our lawns annually. And that is
only the urban areas of a 8 county cummulative watershed in an extremely
environmentally conscious section of the country. Multiply that a few
hundred or a thousand times to address other urban areas across the
country
and the total rapidly escalates into the billions of pounds. That is not
chump change to the pesticide manfacturers nor is it an insiginificant
impact on our watersheds. .

Unfortunately, a wide segment of the population shares your uninformed
view
and the attitude of "what can it hurt if I use lawn chemicals,
correctly
or
incorrectly - I'm just one person" prevails. Let's look at the
statistics -
and they're not even very current. In 1997, 4.6 BILLION pounds of
pesticides
(not including fertilizers) were consumed in the US. Of this, about
2/3's
was utilized by the agricultural sector, the remainder by residential
homeowners. That's 1.5 billion pounds attributed to Joe Blow and his
neighbors and the data is six years old - I'd estimate the total is well
above 2 billion by now. Hardly an insignificant amount. This IS a
problem


pam - gardengal

Wow! And they accuse Bush of "FUZZY MATH"


You come out with an uninformed and innaccurate statement which I contest
and then you accuse me of "fuzzy math"?? Okay, if you don't like the
statistics of the EPA then you present to us something to support the
accuracy of your view - if you can. Otherwise, it is evident to anyone with
a wit of intellegence and concern about the situation that you don't have a
clue.

pam - gardengal

"Pam - gardengal" wrote in message
news:1aH1c.115254$4o.143781@attbi_s52...

"Hound Dog" wrote in message
...

"Pam - gardengal" wrote in message
news:e6m1c.171919$uV3.729831@attbi_s51...

"Hound Dog" wrote in message
...

I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and
tons
of
chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to
understand
the
fuss about home owners using a few pounds of fertilizers and weed
killers
on
their lawns two or three times a year.

Hound Dog

A "few pounds of fertilizers and weed killers"? You seriously
underestimate
the problem. In my area alone, the EPA estimates 1.1 MILLION pounds of
fertilizers and pesticides are dumped on our lawns annually. And that
is
only the urban areas of a 8 county cummulative watershed in an
extremely
environmentally conscious section of the country. Multiply that a few
hundred or a thousand times to address other urban areas across the
country
and the total rapidly escalates into the billions of pounds. That is
not
chump change to the pesticide manfacturers nor is it an insiginificant
impact on our watersheds. .

Unfortunately, a wide segment of the population shares your uninformed
view
and the attitude of "what can it hurt if I use lawn chemicals,
correctly
or
incorrectly - I'm just one person" prevails. Let's look at the
statistics -
and they're not even very current. In 1997, 4.6 BILLION pounds of
pesticides
(not including fertilizers) were consumed in the US. Of this, about
2/3's
was utilized by the agricultural sector, the remainder by residential
homeowners. That's 1.5 billion pounds attributed to Joe Blow and his
neighbors and the data is six years old - I'd estimate the total is
well
above 2 billion by now. Hardly an insignificant amount. This IS a
problem


pam - gardengal

Wow! And they accuse Bush of "FUZZY MATH"


You come out with an uninformed and innaccurate statement which I contest
and then you accuse me of "fuzzy math"?? Okay, if you don't like the
statistics of the EPA then you present to us something to support the
accuracy of your view - if you can. Otherwise, it is evident to anyone
with
a wit of intellegence and concern about the situation that you don't have
a
clue.

pam - gardengal

That's correct "FUZZY MATH"

In your first paragraph you write the "EPA" ESTIMATES 1.1 Million pounds of
fertilizers and pesticides are DUMPED on our lawns annually. Right so far?
Then you instruct us to multiply that number by a few hundred or a THOUSAND
and the result will be in the Billions of pounds. Actually 1.1 Million
multiplied by your largest estimate of 1000 comes to just 1,100,000. Not
Billions as you state, but only 1.1 Billion. Sure as heck sounds like "FUZZY
MATH" to me, not to mention it being one hell of an exaggeration.

Your entire tirade is based only on YOUR opinions, estimates and unfounded
statements. Not once do you give a site or a verifiable quote from any
knowledgeable person to back up your claims. Then you have the unmitigated
gall to write that I am uninformed. I'm certain you mean well, but like all
other fanatics, you want everyone to blindly follow your rules.

Hound Dog

"Pam - gardengal" wrote in message
news:1aH1c.115254$4o.143781@attbi_s52...

"Hound Dog" wrote in message
...

"Pam - gardengal" wrote in message
news:e6m1c.171919$uV3.729831@attbi_s51...

"Hound Dog" wrote in message
...

I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and
tons
of
chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to
understand
the
fuss about home owners using a few pounds of fertilizers and weed
killers
on
their lawns two or three times a year.

Hound Dog

A "few pounds of fertilizers and weed killers"? You seriously
underestimate
the problem. In my area alone, the EPA estimates 1.1 MILLION pounds of
fertilizers and pesticides are dumped on our lawns annually. And that
is
only the urban areas of a 8 county cummulative watershed in an
extremely
environmentally conscious section of the country. Multiply that a few
hundred or a thousand times to address other urban areas across the
country
and the total rapidly escalates into the billions of pounds. That is
not
chump change to the pesticide manfacturers nor is it an insiginificant
impact on our watersheds. .

Unfortunately, a wide segment of the population shares your uninformed
view
and the attitude of "what can it hurt if I use lawn chemicals,
correctly
or
incorrectly - I'm just one person" prevails. Let's look at the
statistics -
and they're not even very current. In 1997, 4.6 BILLION pounds of
pesticides
(not including fertilizers) were consumed in the US. Of this, about
2/3's
was utilized by the agricultural sector, the remainder by residential
homeowners. That's 1.5 billion pounds attributed to Joe Blow and his
neighbors and the data is six years old - I'd estimate the total is
well
above 2 billion by now. Hardly an insignificant amount. This IS a
problem


pam - gardengal

Wow! And they accuse Bush of "FUZZY MATH"


You come out with an uninformed and innaccurate statement which I contest
and then you accuse me of "fuzzy math"?? Okay, if you don't like the
statistics of the EPA then you present to us something to support the
accuracy of your view - if you can. Otherwise, it is evident to anyone
with
a wit of intellegence and concern about the situation that you don't have
a
clue.

pam - gardengal

That's correct "FUZZY MATH"

In your first paragraph you write the "EPA" ESTIMATES 1.1 Million pounds of
fertilizers and pesticides are DUMPED on our lawns annually. Right so far?
Then you instruct us to multiply that number by a few hundred or a THOUSAND
and the result will be in the Billions of pounds. Actually 1.1 Million
multiplied by your largest estimate of 1000 comes to just 1,100,000. Not
Billions as you state, but only 1.1 Billion. Sure as heck sounds like "FUZZY
MATH" to me, not to mention it being one hell of an exaggeration.

Your entire tirade is based only on YOUR opinions, estimates and unfounded
statements. Not once do you give a site or a verifiable quote from any
knowledgeable person to back up your claims. Then you have the unmitigated
gall to write that I am uninformed. I'm certain you mean well, but like all
other fanatics, you want everyone to blindly follow your rules.

Hound Dog

"Pam - gardengal" wrote in message
news:1aH1c.115254$4o.143781@attbi_s52...

"Hound Dog" wrote in message
...

"Pam - gardengal" wrote in message
news:e6m1c.171919$uV3.729831@attbi_s51...

"Hound Dog" wrote in message
...

I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons and
tons
of
chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I fail to
understand
the
fuss about home owners using a few pounds of fertilizers and weed
killers
on
their lawns two or three times a year.

Hound Dog

A "few pounds of fertilizers and weed killers"? You seriously
underestimate
the problem. In my area alone, the EPA estimates 1.1 MILLION pounds of
fertilizers and pesticides are dumped on our lawns annually. And that
is
only the urban areas of a 8 county cummulative watershed in an
extremely
environmentally conscious section of the country. Multiply that a few
hundred or a thousand times to address other urban areas across the
country
and the total rapidly escalates into the billions of pounds. That is
not
chump change to the pesticide manfacturers nor is it an insiginificant
impact on our watersheds. .

Unfortunately, a wide segment of the population shares your uninformed
view
and the attitude of "what can it hurt if I use lawn chemicals,
correctly
or
incorrectly - I'm just one person" prevails. Let's look at the
statistics -
and they're not even very current. In 1997, 4.6 BILLION pounds of
pesticides
(not including fertilizers) were consumed in the US. Of this, about
2/3's
was utilized by the agricultural sector, the remainder by residential
homeowners. That's 1.5 billion pounds attributed to Joe Blow and his
neighbors and the data is six years old - I'd estimate the total is
well
above 2 billion by now. Hardly an insignificant amount. This IS a
problem


pam - gardengal

Wow! And they accuse Bush of "FUZZY MATH"


You come out with an uninformed and innaccurate statement which I contest
and then you accuse me of "fuzzy math"?? Okay, if you don't like the
statistics of the EPA then you present to us something to support the
accuracy of your view - if you can. Otherwise, it is evident to anyone
with
a wit of intellegence and concern about the situation that you don't have
a
clue.

pam - gardengal

That's correct "FUZZY MATH"

In your first paragraph you write the "EPA" ESTIMATES 1.1 Million pounds of
fertilizers and pesticides are DUMPED on our lawns annually. Right so far?
Then you instruct us to multiply that number by a few hundred or a THOUSAND
and the result will be in the Billions of pounds. Actually 1.1 Million
multiplied by your largest estimate of 1000 comes to just 1,100,000. Not
Billions as you state, but only 1.1 Billion. Sure as heck sounds like "FUZZY
MATH" to me, not to mention it being one hell of an exaggeration.

Your entire tirade is based only on YOUR opinions, estimates and unfounded
statements. Not once do you give a site or a verifiable quote from any
knowledgeable person to back up your claims. Then you have the unmitigated
gall to write that I am uninformed. I'm certain you mean well, but like all
other fanatics, you want everyone to blindly follow your rules.

Hound Dog

"Hound Dog" wrote in
:


"Salty Thumb" wrote in message
...
"Hound Dog" wrote in
:


I lived in a farming area much of my life. After seeing the tons
and tons of chemicals farmers used on their crops every year, I
fail to understand the fuss about home owners using a few pounds of
fertilizers and weed killers on their lawns two or three times a
year.


Lucky for you that you woren't the poor sot picking the crops.

I did my share of the work on my grandfathers farm when I was a young
boy, including helping to harvest the crops.

I have recently retired and my health is still excellent. My
grandfather was approaching 100 when he died and he was still planting
and harvesting crops the day he passes away. So, what's your point, if
you have one?

Did you and your grandpa dump tons and tons of chemicals on your crops
every year?

I guess you eat only organically grown food and have a bicycle to ride
on so you don't pollute the air.

You guess wrong.

"Hound Dog" wrote in
:


Your entire tirade is based only on YOUR opinions, estimates and
unfounded statements. Not once do you give a site or a verifiable
quote from any knowledgeable person to back up your claims. Then you
have the unmitigated gall to write that I am uninformed. I'm certain
you mean well, but like all other fanatics, you want everyone to
blindly follow your rules.


Yes, and your anecodetal evidence about living around a farm was really
convincing.

"Hound Dog" wrote in
:


Your entire tirade is based only on YOUR opinions, estimates and
unfounded statements. Not once do you give a site or a verifiable
quote from any knowledgeable person to back up your claims. Then you
have the unmitigated gall to write that I am uninformed. I'm certain
you mean well, but like all other fanatics, you want everyone to
blindly follow your rules.


Yes, and your anecodetal evidence about living around a farm was really
convincing.

"Hound Dog" wrote in
:


Your entire tirade is based only on YOUR opinions, estimates and
unfounded statements. Not once do you give a site or a verifiable
quote from any knowledgeable person to back up your claims. Then you
have the unmitigated gall to write that I am uninformed. I'm certain
you mean well, but like all other fanatics, you want everyone to
blindly follow your rules.


Yes, and your anecodetal evidence about living around a farm was really
convincing.

"Hound Dog" wrote in
:


Your entire tirade is based only on YOUR opinions, estimates and
unfounded statements. Not once do you give a site or a verifiable
quote from any knowledgeable person to back up your claims. Then you
have the unmitigated gall to write that I am uninformed. I'm certain
you mean well, but like all other fanatics, you want everyone to
blindly follow your rules.


Yes, and your anecodetal evidence about living around a farm was really
convincing.