On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 21:11:16 GMT, Janet Baraclough..
wrote:

===The message
===from (DavesVideo) contains these words:
===
=== Janet
===
=== You also need chainsaw trousers which have a fibre lining to choke and
=== stop a moving blade.
===
=== And special socks? :-)
===
=== The trousers overlap the protective boots.
===
=== One should always be carefull, but if I had to wear
=== special clothes when ever I use my chainsaw, I would probably never use it.
===
=== Really? I don't know any professional chainsaw operator who doesn't
===wear full gear, even for a very simple half hour job.
===
=== Janet.
===


Well I would say the utility companies that clear right of ways, as
well as the largest Arborist and trimmin company in the USA Asplundt,
as well as Davey Tree, rarely if ever do I see them using chainsaw
chaps. Hearing and eye protection yes, other than that is steel toed
boots, and pants of their choice as well as a company T shirt. Even
the professional loggers here don't go to that extreme. Try and put
all that gear on and work in the woods in the hot souths humid
weather and see how long you last. They may do it up in the great
white north and some other places up north working for companies and
mandated by OSHA, but its rare to ever see them in all that protective
equipment.
Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:42:11 GMT, "Stephen M. Henning"
wrote:

What everyone is saying is true but there is another option that is
better. There are new inexpensive motorized pole saws that are
sometimes called power pruners, or prunning sticks. The saw is a
miniature chairsaw that would easily cut 3" branches at any height. The
fact that you can hold the pole at a distance greater than your height
makes it almost impossible to hurt yourself. Several companies make
them including Echo, Bosch, and Poulan. I haven't seen any in Walmart
but they may be getting them in. Or a local dealer may take the Walmart
card as credit for one or someone my buy the Walmart card. It is worth
a try.

Ack! Every time I see those things at builder supply houses I have
visions of branches swinging back in and knocking the cutter over.
It's not as easy as it might seem to predict which way the branch will
go if you don't have much experience.

I am a professional arborist but I doubt I'll ever buy a "pole pruner"
chainsaw. I've used them, and found it very difficult (despite
considerable effort) to make proper cuts, and the contortions required
to do so made the thing get really heavy, really fast. I'd prefer to
climb the tree and make the cut properly from a comfortable position
(though of course I realize not every homeowner is up to that). I
think of this as a tool for hackers and yard guys, not arborists, and
I don't recommend them for anyone.

As for the OP, I think a cheap electric saw will do everything the guy
wanted, wont get gummed up and be hard to start if it sits a long
time, and doesn't have enough power to get beyond most users' control.
As someone said, you will need to learn to sharpen a chain or be
prepared to buy them a lot, especially if you will be cutting things
off near the ground (dirt and rocks wreak havoc on chains).

But I'm more inclined to agree with the suggestion to get a
high-quality hand saw with "razor-tooth" or "triple-edge" design. It
will go through most small brush like butter and you're a lot less
likely to cut yourself or parts of your plants that should be left
uncut (which is not to say they are not dangerous--my worst in-the-job
injury was from a pole saw that I knocked loose in a tree and it
snagged the back of my hand as it fell). Coupled with a good pair of
loppers (readily available with 1 1/2" cutting capacity), a hand saw
will take care of 90% of what you want to do in the garden. Anything
else, you might be in the market for a professional.

good luck,

keith
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www.isa-arbor.com/home.asp.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www.treesaregood.com/

On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:42:11 GMT, "Stephen M. Henning"
wrote:

What everyone is saying is true but there is another option that is
better. There are new inexpensive motorized pole saws that are
sometimes called power pruners, or prunning sticks. The saw is a
miniature chairsaw that would easily cut 3" branches at any height. The
fact that you can hold the pole at a distance greater than your height
makes it almost impossible to hurt yourself. Several companies make
them including Echo, Bosch, and Poulan. I haven't seen any in Walmart
but they may be getting them in. Or a local dealer may take the Walmart
card as credit for one or someone my buy the Walmart card. It is worth
a try.

Ack! Every time I see those things at builder supply houses I have
visions of branches swinging back in and knocking the cutter over.
It's not as easy as it might seem to predict which way the branch will
go if you don't have much experience.

I am a professional arborist but I doubt I'll ever buy a "pole pruner"
chainsaw. I've used them, and found it very difficult (despite
considerable effort) to make proper cuts, and the contortions required
to do so made the thing get really heavy, really fast. I'd prefer to
climb the tree and make the cut properly from a comfortable position
(though of course I realize not every homeowner is up to that). I
think of this as a tool for hackers and yard guys, not arborists, and
I don't recommend them for anyone.

As for the OP, I think a cheap electric saw will do everything the guy
wanted, wont get gummed up and be hard to start if it sits a long
time, and doesn't have enough power to get beyond most users' control.
As someone said, you will need to learn to sharpen a chain or be
prepared to buy them a lot, especially if you will be cutting things
off near the ground (dirt and rocks wreak havoc on chains).

But I'm more inclined to agree with the suggestion to get a
high-quality hand saw with "razor-tooth" or "triple-edge" design. It
will go through most small brush like butter and you're a lot less
likely to cut yourself or parts of your plants that should be left
uncut (which is not to say they are not dangerous--my worst in-the-job
injury was from a pole saw that I knocked loose in a tree and it
snagged the back of my hand as it fell). Coupled with a good pair of
loppers (readily available with 1 1/2" cutting capacity), a hand saw
will take care of 90% of what you want to do in the garden. Anything
else, you might be in the market for a professional.

good luck,

keith
For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www.isa-arbor.com/home.asp.
For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www.treesaregood.com/

So you got bit by a pole saw also. I did too. Never even come close to
having an accident with a chainsaw while in a tree but a pole saw made
one heck of a nasty cut on my left arm. I liked to have not ever
gotten back out of that tree.

I like the Corona brand or the tri cut blades. They cut fast, but if
you do get a pole saw or a pruning saw get a scabbord to go withit.
Its often just tossed in a box or a traielr etc and it seems so
unlikely to hurt anyone just laying there, but when they bite its
usually a bad bite.


On Sun, 21 Mar 2004 01:10:42 GMT,
(Babberney) wrote:

===On Sat, 20 Mar 2004 00:42:11 GMT, "Stephen M. Henning"
wrote:
===
===What everyone is saying is true but there is another option that is
===better. There are new inexpensive motorized pole saws that are
===sometimes called power pruners, or prunning sticks. The saw is a
===miniature chairsaw that would easily cut 3" branches at any height. The
===fact that you can hold the pole at a distance greater than your height
===makes it almost impossible to hurt yourself. Several companies make
===them including Echo, Bosch, and Poulan. I haven't seen any in Walmart
===but they may be getting them in. Or a local dealer may take the Walmart
===card as credit for one or someone my buy the Walmart card. It is worth
===a try.
===
===Ack! Every time I see those things at builder supply houses I have
===visions of branches swinging back in and knocking the cutter over.
===It's not as easy as it might seem to predict which way the branch will
===go if you don't have much experience.
===
===I am a professional arborist but I doubt I'll ever buy a "pole pruner"
===chainsaw. I've used them, and found it very difficult (despite
===considerable effort) to make proper cuts, and the contortions required
===to do so made the thing get really heavy, really fast. I'd prefer to
===climb the tree and make the cut properly from a comfortable position
===(though of course I realize not every homeowner is up to that). I
===think of this as a tool for hackers and yard guys, not arborists, and
===I don't recommend them for anyone.
===
===As for the OP, I think a cheap electric saw will do everything the guy
===wanted, wont get gummed up and be hard to start if it sits a long
===time, and doesn't have enough power to get beyond most users' control.
===As someone said, you will need to learn to sharpen a chain or be
===prepared to buy them a lot, especially if you will be cutting things
===off near the ground (dirt and rocks wreak havoc on chains).
===
=== But I'm more inclined to agree with the suggestion to get a
===high-quality hand saw with "razor-tooth" or "triple-edge" design. It
===will go through most small brush like butter and you're a lot less
===likely to cut yourself or parts of your plants that should be left
===uncut (which is not to say they are not dangerous--my worst in-the-job
===injury was from a pole saw that I knocked loose in a tree and it
===snagged the back of my hand as it fell). Coupled with a good pair of
===loppers (readily available with 1 1/2" cutting capacity), a hand saw
===will take care of 90% of what you want to do in the garden. Anything
===else, you might be in the market for a professional.
===
===good luck,
===
===keith
===For more info about the International Society of Arboriculture, please visit http://www.isa-arbor.com/home.asp.
===For consumer info about tree care, visit http://www.treesaregood.com/

Visit my website: http://www.frugalmachinist.com
Opinions expressed are those of my wifes,
I had no input whatsoever.
Remove "nospam" from email addy.

(Roy) wrote:

Well I would say the utility companies that clear right of ways, as
well as the largest Arborist and trimmin company in the USA Asplundt,
as well as Davey Tree, rarely if ever do I see them using chainsaw
chaps. Hearing and eye protection yes, other than that is steel toed
boots, and pants of their choice as well as a company T shirt. Even
the professional loggers here don't go to that extreme.

I worked for the Forest Service on a forest fire crew in Oregon. We had
extensive training in safe use of chair saws. We didn't have too much
protective clothing other than fire retardant clothing and hard hats.
We were barred from steel toed shoes since they caused more toe
amputations than they prevented. We always wore hard hats and goggles.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

One often overlooked safety feature of chain saws is the anti-kickback
chain. New saws are required to have them. Used saws may still not be
equiped with them. These saws are dangerous without the new chain.

A second overlooked safety feature of chain saws is good training. The
training is specific to the use. A logger uses a chair saw considerably
different than a fire fighter, a home owner, a landscaper, or a wood lot
operator. Any good dealer that sells chain saws should have training
available.

One of the most dangerous times in using a chair saw is when starting a
gasoline saw. That is the one time you don't have very good control of
it. A good starting technique that can be used in the woods is
essential. This is especially true of the more powerful saws.

--
Pardon my spam deterrent; send email to
http://home.earthlink.net/~rhodyman

Stephen M. Henning wrote:


One of the most dangerous times in using a chair saw is when starting a
gasoline saw. That is the one time you don't have very good control of
it. A good starting technique that can be used in the woods is
essential. This is especially true of the more powerful saws.

No it's not. The chain doesn't start moving until the motor is reved high
enough to engage the clutch. A modern saw will have a chain brake, and if
it's engaged the blade will not turn even if you rev it up. And they don't
rev very fast when first starting. It is possible to cut yourself when
starting a saw without the chain brake set, but there are lots of cutting
situations that are *much* more dangerous (like felling a big sycamore tree
or a leaning tree without first wrapping a logging chain around the trunk
to keep it from splitting, or trimming limbs while standing on a ladder.)

-Bob

The message
from Ann contains these words:

Janet Baraclough.. expounded:

Really? I don't know any professional chainsaw operator who doesn't
wear full gear, even for a very simple half hour job.

Proper gear means work gloves, long pants, wookboots, safety glasses,
hearing protection, and knowledge. If you're swinging a chainsaw so
badly you might cut into your legs I really don't think you should be
using one ;-

Professionals wear kevlar trousers precisely because that accident can
happen so easily.
Inexperienced people can very easily misjudge the speed of cut, and the
weight, balance and impetus of the saw as it comes free.The OP has
already told us that her arms get tired easily.

Accidents can happen to anyone, true, but expecting
everyone who uses a chainsaw to own kevlar pants is going a bit too
far.

You wouldn't think that if, like me, you had ever seen (and heard)
anyone slip a running saw onto their leg, while not wearing kevlar.


Janet.

The message
from Ann contains these words:

Janet Baraclough.. expounded:

Really? I don't know any professional chainsaw operator who doesn't
wear full gear, even for a very simple half hour job.

Proper gear means work gloves, long pants, wookboots, safety glasses,
hearing protection, and knowledge. If you're swinging a chainsaw so
badly you might cut into your legs I really don't think you should be
using one ;-

Professionals wear kevlar trousers precisely because that accident can
happen so easily.
Inexperienced people can very easily misjudge the speed of cut, and the
weight, balance and impetus of the saw as it comes free.The OP has
already told us that her arms get tired easily.

Accidents can happen to anyone, true, but expecting
everyone who uses a chainsaw to own kevlar pants is going a bit too
far.

You wouldn't think that if, like me, you had ever seen (and heard)
anyone slip a running saw onto their leg, while not wearing kevlar.


Janet.

The message
from Ann contains these words:

Janet Baraclough.. expounded:

Really? I don't know any professional chainsaw operator who doesn't
wear full gear, even for a very simple half hour job.

Proper gear means work gloves, long pants, wookboots, safety glasses,
hearing protection, and knowledge. If you're swinging a chainsaw so
badly you might cut into your legs I really don't think you should be
using one ;-

Professionals wear kevlar trousers precisely because that accident can
happen so easily.
Inexperienced people can very easily misjudge the speed of cut, and the
weight, balance and impetus of the saw as it comes free.The OP has
already told us that her arms get tired easily.

Accidents can happen to anyone, true, but expecting
everyone who uses a chainsaw to own kevlar pants is going a bit too
far.

You wouldn't think that if, like me, you had ever seen (and heard)
anyone slip a running saw onto their leg, while not wearing kevlar.


Janet.

The message
from Ann contains these words:

Janet Baraclough.. expounded:

Really? I don't know any professional chainsaw operator who doesn't
wear full gear, even for a very simple half hour job.

Proper gear means work gloves, long pants, wookboots, safety glasses,
hearing protection, and knowledge. If you're swinging a chainsaw so
badly you might cut into your legs I really don't think you should be
using one ;-

Professionals wear kevlar trousers precisely because that accident can
happen so easily.
Inexperienced people can very easily misjudge the speed of cut, and the
weight, balance and impetus of the saw as it comes free.The OP has
already told us that her arms get tired easily.

Accidents can happen to anyone, true, but expecting
everyone who uses a chainsaw to own kevlar pants is going a bit too
far.

You wouldn't think that if, like me, you had ever seen (and heard)
anyone slip a running saw onto their leg, while not wearing kevlar.


Janet.

The message
from Ann contains these words:

Janet Baraclough.. expounded:

Really? I don't know any professional chainsaw operator who doesn't
wear full gear, even for a very simple half hour job.

Proper gear means work gloves, long pants, wookboots, safety glasses,
hearing protection, and knowledge. If you're swinging a chainsaw so
badly you might cut into your legs I really don't think you should be
using one ;-

Professionals wear kevlar trousers precisely because that accident can
happen so easily.
Inexperienced people can very easily misjudge the speed of cut, and the
weight, balance and impetus of the saw as it comes free.The OP has
already told us that her arms get tired easily.

Accidents can happen to anyone, true, but expecting
everyone who uses a chainsaw to own kevlar pants is going a bit too
far.

You wouldn't think that if, like me, you had ever seen (and heard)
anyone slip a running saw onto their leg, while not wearing kevlar.


Janet.

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 12:33:10 GMT, Frogleg wrote:

I want to get a chainsaw for yard cleanip, but I don't have a lot of
money. In fact, I have *no* money, but I do have a WalMart gift card.
The cheapest model they have is a Remington electric. They also have
some Poulan and Snapper gas models for twice the price. What I want to
do is prune some severely overgrown bushes and trees with max.
trunk/branch diameter of 3" or so.

Any thoughts on advantages/dis- for gas and electric? I'm not looking
to cut down mighty oaks. I could do most of the work with a bow saw,
but there's a *lot* to be done and my arm gets very tired after one
cut.

Rent one, save yourself the hassle of maintenance.. sharpening fees,
rebuild fees. If you get a gas one, you have to learn to tinker or
take it to the shop a lot, even if it runs ok, sharpening sharpening,
lots of sharpening. You could buy the files, and a guide to sharpen it
correctly, then if it's gas make sure that the gas tank is either run
completely dry in the fall, or make sure you put fuel stabilizers in
it or you will have to have the whole thing cleaned out in the spring
when you want to use it.

Once you've used it to clean up your yard this year, what are you
going to do with it? You going to start cutting firewood?

Cheaper in the long run to rent one. But be careful, kickback can
cause you to cut limbs you don't want to cut!

Janice

Roy

Well I would say the utility companies that clear right of ways, as
well as the largest Arborist and trimmin company in the USA Asplundt,
as well as Davey Tree, rarely if ever do I see them using chainsaw
chaps.

That's why I did a double take at Janet's post. For 25 years my father had a
logging busines in upstate new York and I had never even heard of chainsaw
pants. There were only a few minor accidents to the loggers and more accidents
of chainsaws smashed by a tree falling the wrong way.
The main safety rule is to know what you are doing. For example, I am by no
means an expert at felling trees. I might take down something up to 9" or 10",
but that's about it. Right now I need to remove a dead Black Walnut abut 13" or
14". I will hire someone to take it down, but cut up the downed logs myself.



Dave
http://members.tripod.com/~VideoDave

On Fri, 19 Mar 2004 15:06:55 GMT, Janet Baraclough..
wrote:

The message
from Frogleg contains these words:

I want to get a chainsaw for yard cleanip, but I don't have a lot of
money. In fact, I have *no* money, but I do have a WalMart gift card.
The cheapest model they have is a Remington electric. They also have
some Poulan and Snapper gas models for twice the price. What I want to
do is prune some severely overgrown bushes and trees with max.
trunk/branch diameter of 3" or so.

Any thoughts on advantages/dis- for gas and electric? I'm not looking
to cut down mighty oaks. I could do most of the work with a bow saw,
but there's a *lot* to be done and my arm gets very tired after one
cut.

If your arms get very tired after one cut with a bowsaw, they are
going to find the vibration and extra weight of even a small electric
chainsaw a whole lot worse.*Please* don't use any chainsaw unless you
have strong arms, have been on a training course on safe operation, and
are wearing full safety equipment from head to toe (which costs a lot
more than a cheap chainsaw). One of the first things taught on a basic
training course, is only to operate the saw while standing on the
ground, unobstructed, with open space behind you, and not to cut above
the level of your shoulder. Think about that in relation to your
overgrown bushes and trees.

I'd do 3" limbs gradually with a bowsaw, as strength permits. Remember
you can alternate thin and thick branches in any ratio that suits your
strength and energy. If you can find a friend to help, with a bowsaw two
people can safely work in the same area, one sawing and one clearing
(unlike a chainsaw).

Old bowsaws can be hard work just because the blade is worn and blunt.
New blades aren't very expensive or difficult to fit and make sawing
much faster, and easier on the arms.

Janet.

I just use a folding pruning saw that has a slight arc to the blade
and fairly wide set jagged teeth, they don't get all clogged up and
works pretty fast. It can get kind of sticky when cutting elms, so I
have to wipe it off from time to time. It's recommended that you
disinfect your saw before you move from one tree to the next in order
to stop the spread of any incipient diseases you don't know yet know
about. Could be that alcohol could help clean the saw of any sticky
sap that might stick to the blade. A bar of soap can be used to
lubricate the blade if you find a situation where it's now slipping
easily. This little folding saw is much better than a big awkward bow
saw, you can get it closer to the main trunk without gouging other
limbs or the trunk, and close enough not to leave stubs that don't
heal properly.

I don't know what your experience is with pruning overall, but if it's
not great, consult some pruning guides ..library probably has at least
one.. learn to identify the "collar" where branches fork off from
lager branches or trunks, as you should cut where you are as close to
that collar as possible without cutting into it much, for proper
healing. If cut correctly the collar will eventually close the wound
over a couple year's time. If you don't cut close enough, it'll leave
a stub that will prevent it from healing properly and leave an open
avenue for pests and disease. I think most of us have seen little
dead stubs sticking out of an otherwise closed up wound. If you cut
too far into the collar, the wound may never heal.

Please, don't just lop off limbs in the middle and let them go at
that, as generally that only encourages a bottle brush of growth at
the end of the limb and that leads to growth that is weak and a place
for future problems like limbs falling from their own weight at a
later date. Too often people "top" large trees by lopping off all the
branches to stubs, so new growth sprouts all around the stubs and
eventually a lager branch takes over to make the new main trunks or
main lateral growth, but no matter what happens that growth is never
as strong as a limb that comes from the main trunk. Those new
branches spouting from the ends of lopped off branches of silver
maples often shoot out and grow nearly horizontal and when they get
heavy enough, they just break, usually at the weak joint, and drop
straight down onto someone's car or house.

So this is my long winded rambling bid for folding pruning saws with
slightly curved blades ;-) There are a lot of them out there, some
nice Japanese ones, kind of expensive, but nice. I think I bought
mine either at A. M. Leonard or a local garden shop for $20 or less 10
years ago.

Check around. A. M. Leonard is online, but they have reduced a lot of
their stock, but they're still worth checking out.

Janice