Michelle wrote:
come on folks we are talking about a eleven year old not an eleven
month old My son an ddaughter garden with me and they are seven and
six I know I don't keep chemicals in my house but I'm pretty sure an
eleven year old can handel a spray bottel my kids also help me clean
I mean really is this a garden group or a bunch of child wellfare
whitch hunters ?

Maybe yours can but this kid obviously can't.

--
Travis in Shoreline Washington

Okay then, put the kids in hermetically sealed plastic bubbles and hide them
away from the cruel world full of evil nasty things. Is that wat you want?

Are you ever aware of when you cross the line from being protective to being
an overly obsessive nut?

If you had any sense at all, you would have checked the warning labels
before letting kids have easy access to the chemicals.

And if you knew anything at all about plants, you would have known that
plant auxins (weed killers) are not toxic in any way to animals or children.


"SueNYC" wrote in message
...

"Michelle" wrote in message
...
come on folks we are talking about a eleven year old not an eleven
month old My son an ddaughter garden with me and they are seven and
six I know I don't keep chemicals in my house but I'm pretty sure an
eleven year old can handel a spray bottel my kids also help me clean
I mean really is this a garden group or a bunch of child wellfare
whitch hunters ?

An 11 year old is a CHILD. And no responsible parent or gardener would
leave weed killers and other poisons in reach of kids. I mean c'mon, the
kid
didn't even know what the hell they were spraying! The kid thought it was
insecticide, which is just as bad and something kids should not have
access
to. I stand by what I said..the fact that the original poster lets his
kids
have access to chemicals and poisons, and was freaking out about some
stupid
plants instead of the fact his kid could have poisoned herself, shows he
is
ignorant, irresponsible, and has seriously messed up priorities. So what
if
a plant dies? You can replace it. But if your child dies......


SueNY

"Cereus-validus" wrote in message
...
Okay then, put the kids in hermetically sealed plastic bubbles and hide
them
away from the cruel world full of evil nasty things. Is that wat you want?

That works for me. People in my neighborhood let the kids run wild as soon
as they can open the front door.

In article ,
"Cereus-validus" wrote:

I'm being sarcastic, you dim boob.

Weed killers are not toxic to humans.

Herbicides are highly toxic to humans, for which reason many are banned
for use around edible produce, all have restrictions & don't even claim to
be safe unless used within well defined parameters.

Even the allegedly harmless-if-used-correctly herbicides break down in the
environment into components that are frequently carcinogenic, or combine
with molecules in the environment to increase toxicity. They have been
used successfully in suicides; they have accidcentally blinded people
temporarily & permanently; their break-down & combined components are
known cancer agents, so even if the side-effect takes 20 or 30 years to
show itself in the form of carcinomas, that's pretty bad.

If low exposures to some of herbicides really were nearly harmless in
brief & miniscule exposures, this cannot be extended to imply safety to
exposure of the same chemicals periodically & in concert with a multitude
of other garden chemicals such as dumbass ignorant non-organic
planet-poisoning buy-consume-die cretins are addicted to. Herbicides,
fungicides, pesticides, chemical fertilizers, & lawnmower pollutants, have
unpredictable & accumulative side-effects -- at some point the soup of
pollutants is no longer miniscule -- & what's intentionally used to
pollute the garden is only one part of a larger chemical mix that keeps
cancer, asthma, & other illnesses on the rise in incidence, & afflicts the
larger environment with additional dangerous effects on watersheds & as
air pollution eventually do impact human health.

So no one with a brain bigger than a pea believes these chemicals are
harmless, whether or not they're unconcerned enough or just stupid enough
to use them anyway, whether or not they leave them sitting around for the
children to misuse.

An 11 year old is not an infant nor should one be pampered like it's some
retarded pet, just because the parents are over reacting like lunatics.

Even IF a pre-teen knew what he or she was messing with (which this one
didn't), even IF the kid had been instructed in safety considerations
(such as her parents in no way followed, so she had bad examples to learn
from), what really are the chances of kids adhering to rules? If kids were
that responsible none of 'em would be pregnant by the seventh grade, &
they'd be issued drivers liscenses at age ten, or sooner if their feet
could reach the pedals. Kids may or may not be responsible when they are
much more mature in years & have sufficient experience & knowledge to no
longer believe in their own immortality. But any parent who would leave
unmarked containers of random containers sitting around, who would lead
any child to believe it was fine for them to handle toxic chemicals
unsupervised, well, those parents should be arrested & charged with child
endangerment.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

Pleeeeeze. Serenity now!!!

So how do you, your hubbie and five kids manage to survive living in this
terrible terrible world we live in?


"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Cereus-validus" wrote:

I'm being sarcastic, you dim boob.

Weed killers are not toxic to humans.

Herbicides are highly toxic to humans, for which reason many are banned
for use around edible produce, all have restrictions & don't even claim to
be safe unless used within well defined parameters.

Even the allegedly harmless-if-used-correctly herbicides break down in the
environment into components that are frequently carcinogenic, or combine
with molecules in the environment to increase toxicity. They have been
used successfully in suicides; they have accidcentally blinded people
temporarily & permanently; their break-down & combined components are
known cancer agents, so even if the side-effect takes 20 or 30 years to
show itself in the form of carcinomas, that's pretty bad.

If low exposures to some of herbicides really were nearly harmless in
brief & miniscule exposures, this cannot be extended to imply safety to
exposure of the same chemicals periodically & in concert with a multitude
of other garden chemicals such as dumbass ignorant non-organic
planet-poisoning buy-consume-die cretins are addicted to. Herbicides,
fungicides, pesticides, chemical fertilizers, & lawnmower pollutants, have
unpredictable & accumulative side-effects -- at some point the soup of
pollutants is no longer miniscule -- & what's intentionally used to
pollute the garden is only one part of a larger chemical mix that keeps
cancer, asthma, & other illnesses on the rise in incidence, & afflicts the
larger environment with additional dangerous effects on watersheds & as
air pollution eventually do impact human health.

So no one with a brain bigger than a pea believes these chemicals are
harmless, whether or not they're unconcerned enough or just stupid enough
to use them anyway, whether or not they leave them sitting around for the
children to misuse.

An 11 year old is not an infant nor should one be pampered like it's
some
retarded pet, just because the parents are over reacting like lunatics.

Even IF a pre-teen knew what he or she was messing with (which this one
didn't), even IF the kid had been instructed in safety considerations
(such as her parents in no way followed, so she had bad examples to learn
from), what really are the chances of kids adhering to rules? If kids were
that responsible none of 'em would be pregnant by the seventh grade, &
they'd be issued drivers liscenses at age ten, or sooner if their feet
could reach the pedals. Kids may or may not be responsible when they are
much more mature in years & have sufficient experience & knowledge to no
longer believe in their own immortality. But any parent who would leave
unmarked containers of random containers sitting around, who would lead
any child to believe it was fine for them to handle toxic chemicals
unsupervised, well, those parents should be arrested & charged with child
endangerment.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

In article , "Cereus-validus"
wrote:

So how do you, your hubbie and five kids manage to survive living in this
terrible terrible world we live in?

You would probably survive if I were to cut off all your fingers then
forced you to put your stumpy hands in a fire to cauterize the bleeding.
If children "managing to survive" is your definition of safe, no bloody
wonder you had that fantasy of surreptitiously drugging parents into
stupors.

-paggers

"paghat" wrote in message
news
In article ,
"Cereus-validus" wrote:

I'm being sarcastic, you dim boob.

Weed killers are not toxic to humans.

Herbicides are highly toxic to humans, for which reason many are banned
for use around edible produce, all have restrictions & don't even claim to
be safe unless used within well defined parameters.

Even the allegedly harmless-if-used-correctly herbicides break down in the
environment into components that are frequently carcinogenic, or combine
with molecules in the environment to increase toxicity. They have been
used successfully in suicides; they have accidcentally blinded people
temporarily & permanently; their break-down & combined components are
known cancer agents, so even if the side-effect takes 20 or 30 years to
show itself in the form of carcinomas, that's pretty bad.

If low exposures to some of herbicides really were nearly harmless in
brief & miniscule exposures, this cannot be extended to imply safety to
exposure of the same chemicals periodically & in concert with a multitude
of other garden chemicals such as dumbass ignorant non-organic
planet-poisoning buy-consume-die cretins are addicted to. Herbicides,
fungicides, pesticides, chemical fertilizers, & lawnmower pollutants, have
unpredictable & accumulative side-effects -- at some point the soup of
pollutants is no longer miniscule -- & what's intentionally used to
pollute the garden is only one part of a larger chemical mix that keeps
cancer, asthma, & other illnesses on the rise in incidence, & afflicts the
larger environment with additional dangerous effects on watersheds & as
air pollution eventually do impact human health.

So no one with a brain bigger than a pea believes these chemicals are
harmless, whether or not they're unconcerned enough or just stupid enough
to use them anyway, whether or not they leave them sitting around for the
children to misuse.

An 11 year old is not an infant nor should one be pampered like it's
some
retarded pet, just because the parents are over reacting like lunatics.

Even IF a pre-teen knew what he or she was messing with (which this one
didn't), even IF the kid had been instructed in safety considerations
(such as her parents in no way followed, so she had bad examples to learn
from), what really are the chances of kids adhering to rules? If kids were
that responsible none of 'em would be pregnant by the seventh grade, &
they'd be issued drivers liscenses at age ten, or sooner if their feet
could reach the pedals. Kids may or may not be responsible when they are
much more mature in years & have sufficient experience & knowledge to no
longer believe in their own immortality. But any parent who would leave
unmarked containers of random containers sitting around, who would lead
any child to believe it was fine for them to handle toxic chemicals
unsupervised, well, those parents should be arrested & charged with child
endangerment.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
See the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com/

SueNYC wrote:

"Wellsie" wrote in message
et...
Our 11 year old was trying to help, and accidentally sprayed many of our
plants with ivy killer (she thought it was bug spray).

Is there any way to save these plants?

PLEASE HELP! Thanks!


The hell with your plants..what is the matter with you?? You are one
incredibly irresponsible parent to leave such poisons in reach of your kids!
I'd be more worried about whether my kid got any exposure than the damn
plants! Your priorities are seriously screwed up!

Oh for cripes' sakes, get over yourself. You have absolutely NO idea
what the circumstances of this situation are beyond the fact that an 11
year old accidentally sprayed plants with ivy killer. Our kids have
been working in our gardens, WITH SUPERVISION, for years. They have, on
occasion, been allowed to spray weeds with herbicide. They are
extremely responsible and have respect for what they are doing and I
trust them.

I also let my kids work with the horses on their own. I suppose in your
world I am irresponsible and a terrible parent to do so. But I prefer
to teach them well and trust their instincts - so far I've managed to
raise three children past the 11 year old mark without killing any of
them.

Michelle expounded:


come on folks we are talking about a eleven year old not an eleven
month old My son an ddaughter garden with me and they are seven and
six I know I don't keep chemicals in my house but I'm pretty sure an
eleven year old can handel a spray bottel my kids also help me clean
I mean really is this a garden group or a bunch of child wellfare
whitch hunters ?

I'm no 'child wellfare whitch hunter' (sic) but I'm surely not going
to let *any* child spray weed killers of any sort, nor any other
household chemicals, at all.
--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

This is a fascinating exchange.

I think it is possible that some people simply DON'T KNOW (no excuse for
them) that children are extremely sensitive to chemicals, and it can damage
them for life and/or kill them.

For example: how often do you hear about lead poisoning in adults? But we
probably are all, of all ages, sensitive to lead. Children, however, can be
permanently damaged by it.

So, the OP (and others) is so stupid they don't realize this. Let those of
us who are good with facts offer them citations where they can educate
themselves about these dangers. I can't help on that score--I never
remember where I learned things!

I suspect a troll here. But it is interesting to note that others think it
OK for kids to handle chemicals. Woe unto them.

"Callen Molenda" wrote in message
...
SueNYC wrote:

"Wellsie" wrote in message
et...
Our 11 year old was trying to help, and accidentally sprayed many of
our
plants with ivy killer (she thought it was bug spray).

Is there any way to save these plants?

PLEASE HELP! Thanks!


The hell with your plants..what is the matter with you?? You are one
incredibly irresponsible parent to leave such poisons in reach of your
kids!
I'd be more worried about whether my kid got any exposure than the damn
plants! Your priorities are seriously screwed up!

Oh for cripes' sakes, get over yourself. You have absolutely NO idea
what the circumstances of this situation are beyond the fact that an 11
year old accidentally sprayed plants with ivy killer. Our kids have
been working in our gardens, WITH SUPERVISION, for years. They have, on
occasion, been allowed to spray weeds with herbicide. They are
extremely responsible and have respect for what they are doing and I
trust them.

I also let my kids work with the horses on their own. I suppose in your
world I am irresponsible and a terrible parent to do so. But I prefer
to teach them well and trust their instincts - so far I've managed to
raise three children past the 11 year old mark without killing any of
them.

Xref: kermit rec.gardens:279393

So you are getting off on this thread, Betsy Wetsy?

Good for you. Glad we could entertain you, biatch.

Considering recent encounters with misbehaving children and their parents
who make no effort to control them, one would think that a few wouldn't be
missed by them or others who are forced to tolerate the obnoxious little
brats.

Sorry to hear about your permanent brain damage from lead poisoning. Maybe
now you will learn paint chips are not candy. Maybe not.

You obviously can't grasp the fact that everything we take into our bodies
is chemicals.


"Betsy" -0 wrote in message
...
This is a fascinating exchange.

I think it is possible that some people simply DON'T KNOW (no excuse for
them) that children are extremely sensitive to chemicals, and it can
damage
them for life and/or kill them.

For example: how often do you hear about lead poisoning in adults? But
we
probably are all, of all ages, sensitive to lead. Children, however, can
be
permanently damaged by it.

So, the OP (and others) is so stupid they don't realize this. Let those
of
us who are good with facts offer them citations where they can educate
themselves about these dangers. I can't help on that score--I never
remember where I learned things!

I suspect a troll here. But it is interesting to note that others think
it
OK for kids to handle chemicals. Woe unto them.

"Callen Molenda" wrote in message
...
SueNYC wrote:

"Wellsie" wrote in message
et...
Our 11 year old was trying to help, and accidentally sprayed many of
our
plants with ivy killer (she thought it was bug spray).

Is there any way to save these plants?

PLEASE HELP! Thanks!


The hell with your plants..what is the matter with you?? You are one
incredibly irresponsible parent to leave such poisons in reach of your
kids!
I'd be more worried about whether my kid got any exposure than the
damn
plants! Your priorities are seriously screwed up!

Oh for cripes' sakes, get over yourself. You have absolutely NO idea
what the circumstances of this situation are beyond the fact that an 11
year old accidentally sprayed plants with ivy killer. Our kids have
been working in our gardens, WITH SUPERVISION, for years. They have, on
occasion, been allowed to spray weeds with herbicide. They are
extremely responsible and have respect for what they are doing and I
trust them.

I also let my kids work with the horses on their own. I suppose in your
world I am irresponsible and a terrible parent to do so. But I prefer
to teach them well and trust their instincts - so far I've managed to
raise three children past the 11 year old mark without killing any of
them.

"Wellsie" wrote in
et:

Our 11 year old was trying to help, and accidentally sprayed many of
our plants with ivy killer (she thought it was bug spray).

Is there any way to save these plants?

PLEASE HELP! Thanks!

I'll have to join the w(h)itch hunter posse ...

What is 11 yo, around 5th grade? Hopefully she can read, although she
may have just have been overzealous for wanting to help, lied about
mistaking for bug spray, the pretty picture of ivy on the bottle and
assumed it was for spraying on plants (which it is).

This is why all herbicides should have kid friendly warnings like "Elmo
says bad water make plants go poo-poo!" But that might just encourage
them. How about a cartoon plant with a death skull lying prone in a
cesspool of blood? Or you could just keep the stuff away until your kid
understands how to use the product properly?

Prepare your kids for a lifetime of not reading the useless instructions
on product labels which may have included such verbiage as "It is a
violation of Federal law to use this product in a manner inconsistent
with its labeling."

-- Felonious Jail-Bird "it's not a crime unless you get caught and/or
are underage" Thumb

The message
from Salty Thumb contains these words:


What is 11 yo, around 5th grade? Hopefully she can read, although she
may have just have been overzealous for wanting to help, lied about
mistaking for bug spray


Maybe she did it on purpose as a protest against bad parents. Perhaps,
in a desperate appeal to the neighbourhood, the plucky little heroine
bravely spelled out "PLEASE SAVE MY SIBLINGS" in weedkiller.

Janet.

"SueNYC" said:

Our 11 year old was trying to help, and accidentally sprayed many of
our plants with ivy killer (she thought it was bug spray).

The hell with your plants..what is the matter with you?? You are one
incredibly irresponsible parent to leave such poisons in reach of
your kids! I'd be more worried about whether my kid got any exposure
than the damn plants! Your priorities are seriously screwed up!

None of the rest of us have ever set something down and had it picked up
by our kids. (FYI, there are instructions on the container on what to do
if the chemicals come in contact with your skin.) Your response is way out
of line.

Yes, we all saw the sitcom where the baby died after secondary contact
with a garden spray but this is not a sitcom and we know nothing about
what happened except that a kid sprayed a plant with ivy killer.

Sue, do you have any children? If so, what are their ages?

--
Mac Cool

You obviously can't grasp the fact that everything we take into our bodies
is chemicals.

Of course everything we take into our bodies are chemicals. The point is
that some chemicals are more dangerous to our bodies than others. Gee,
Cereus, you know this or you wouldn't be alive to rant. Or maybe you just
want everybody to be as crippled and deformed as you? ;-)

On Tue, 18 May 2004 17:24:55 -0400, Callen Molenda
wrote:

SueNYC wrote:

"Wellsie" wrote in message
et...
Our 11 year old was trying to help, and accidentally sprayed many of our
plants with ivy killer (she thought it was bug spray).

Is there any way to save these plants?

PLEASE HELP! Thanks!


The hell with your plants..what is the matter with you?? You are one
incredibly irresponsible parent to leave such poisons in reach of your kids!
I'd be more worried about whether my kid got any exposure than the damn
plants! Your priorities are seriously screwed up!

Oh for cripes' sakes, get over yourself. You have absolutely NO idea
what the circumstances of this situation are beyond the fact that an 11
year old accidentally sprayed plants with ivy killer. Our kids have
been working in our gardens, WITH SUPERVISION, for years. They have, on
occasion, been allowed to spray weeds with herbicide. They are
extremely responsible and have respect for what they are doing and I
trust them.

I also let my kids work with the horses on their own. I suppose in your
world I am irresponsible and a terrible parent to do so. But I prefer
to teach them well and trust their instincts - so far I've managed to
raise three children past the 11 year old mark without killing any of
them.

Exactly my point. most children aren't stupid and if they are taught
properly most times they will make correct decisions. and we should
not criticize any one for how they rais their children unless they are
beating them or neglecting the care of a child too young to care for
them selvs like those idiots who leave kids home alone and then they
burn the house down. and that sort of thing.
For all we know the parent was standing right next to the kid when
they were spraying and just noticed after the fact that it was the
wrong chemical . And I don't think I'm a bad parent for leting my
children use house hold clleaners . I don't let them use coxic one s
of course but my son likes to help me clean the kitchen or windows
and he will run the vacume ( he likes to help and askes if he can )
I'm not letting him clean the toilet or tile in the bathroom or
anything like that but he is very helpful.
children need to learn to do things My kids help me cook and I let
them be near the stove under controled conditions .
I know lots of folks that couldn't make a hot dog if they didnt' have
a microwave Not my kids My son can almost bake a batch of chocolate
chip cookies by him self ALMOST
Oh how we forget that children used to apprentice in trades when they
were at the some times young age of seven. Not that I think that
seven year olds should be put to work but the average age for a forge
smith apprentice was exactly eleven years old
now days it is more like end of high school and up.
Kids need good examples and they learn from those examples.
Any way this is not a garden topic
anyone want to talk about gardening and not about bad parenting
I'm sure there is a news group for that since there is a news group
for everything else including .... well not going there
said enough