In article , Janet Baraclough..
wrote:

The message
from escape contains these words:


Yes, saw it, know it, still know it. I don't know what country I live
in any
more. I cannot explain the feeling in this household. I cannot believe
religion is running my country. I can't believe the religious man
running it
gave us the finger. I don't understand anything.

Tush, V, that was "the greatest ever democracy in action". Imagine what
your illustrious demonstration must mean to all those envious
third-world dictatorships.

All those godly people who voted for Bush's track record, took personal
responsibility for his foreign policy and its consequences to
yourselves. They made your bed, now lie in it.

Bush's second term is the kiss of death to poodle Tony Blair's hopes of
re-election next year, btw, so you're on your own now.

Janet.(Scotland)

An added level of tragedy is that people who "love" Bush are in the
deepest kaka of all. They voted for him not because any of his policies
will benefit them, but because he bolsters their desire to express bigotry
against queers, ragheads, feminists, Jews for not praying to Jesus in the
public schools, darkies who don't toady to the "Republican" ideals (OF
COURSE someone like Powell who will destroy his own credibility for life
by lying his ass off for the Master is a good darky, but anyhone
disobediant to the master is dismissed as a crackhead ******). The "moral"
agenda of hatred for queers, hatred for non-christians, hatred for science
(for everything from proving evolution is real to pursuing stem cell
research), hatred for anything progressive (making "liberal" a dirty word
for failing to hate queers & darkies & ragheaeds quite enough) -- none of
this REALLY helps lower class white fundamentalists yabobs. if they cared
about themselves they'd be activists in unions; they'd be peace activists
so their own families have a chance of a decent lifespan; they'd be with
progressives seeking equality & opportunity for the underprivileged,
because the Lord knows these trailer park yabobs would benefit from that.
But noooooo, they think they'll come out of head if they can keep a few
queers at bay. Cuz God knows the waspy yabobs lives will mean nothing good
at all if faggots get married. Lordy lordy, if that were allowed, next
thing you know their own daddy will be marrying that godforsaken goat of
his.

The support they feel from the president on these matters really doesn't
improve their lives, as they still hunker down in trailer parks unable to
find decent jobs or get decent healthcare for themselves or their
children. But losing jobs because the president gave big taxbreaks for any
corporation who sends the jobs overseas, that affects their lives.
Trillions of dollars of national debt so that corporations don't have to
pay taxes & the bill for World War III can be paid off by our kids, that
will effect their lives supposing they ever do get a job in this life,
even if it's only in the no-other-choice volunteer army. A pay-as-you-go,
or just drop dead healthcare system kills them as rapidly as anyone it
kills anyone with a progressive viewpoint. The trailer yabobs who like him
best make up one of the biggest percentages of our recent wardead, because
they had no job opportunities but to volunteer to become cannon fodder.
There aren't many kids from well-off families dying over there.

Those of us who can see the obvious worry about all of America, not just
the ones who attend churches of bigotry. But they all too often just glory
in "ha ha! You don't have a president, we do!" Because Bush's #1 "moral"
agenda is to keep America divided, since a divided nation is one that
can't do anything about it as Bush Brother monitors even what we check out
of the library & whittles away at everyone's civil rights so that he can
continue to turn the nation over to multinational corporations who are
already making both domestic & international policy. The right may have
voted for him so he'll change the Constitution and make sure queers never
have equal rights, but even supposing he succeeds at that, to be able to
SMUGLY die of a treatable disease because you're po' white trash seems
small recompense.

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

In article ,
says...
An added level of tragedy is that people who "love" Bush are in the
deepest kaka of all. They voted for him not because any of his policies
will benefit them, but because he bolsters their desire to express bigotry
against queers, ragheads, feminists, Jews for not praying to Jesus in the
public schools, darkies who don't toady to the "Republican" ideals ...

When we threw out voter qualification tests because they were being
misused, we did the classic "throwing out the baby with the bathwater"

There must be an unbiased way of testing if a voter nas even a minimal
knowledge of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the candidates
policies.

If not, well, people get the government they deserve.


--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
An added level of tragedy is that people who "love" Bush are in the
deepest kaka of all. They voted for him not because any of his policies
will benefit them, but because he bolsters their desire to express
bigotry
against queers, ragheads, feminists, Jews for not praying to Jesus in
the
public schools, darkies who don't toady to the "Republican" ideals ...

When we threw out voter qualification tests because they were being
misused, we did the classic "throwing out the baby with the bathwater"

There must be an unbiased way of testing if a voter nas even a minimal
knowledge of the Constitution, the Bill of Rights, and the candidates
policies.

If not, well, people get the government they deserve.

You just won four dozen virtual beers or donuts - your choice.

Last year, my 15 year old son forced me to take him from NY to PA for
fireworks. He had a friend with him. When we saw the "welcome to
Pennsyvania" sign, the friend expressed surprise that we didn't need to stop
at customs. Oh boy.

It's worse than you think.

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:53:24 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
opined:

You just won four dozen virtual beers or donuts - your choice.

Last year, my 15 year old son forced me to take him from NY to PA for
fireworks. He had a friend with him. When we saw the "welcome to
Pennsyvania" sign, the friend expressed surprise that we didn't need to stop
at customs. Oh boy.

It's worse than you think.


Carumba! That is bad. All of this makes me closer and closer to the day when
we buy land and boondock with other like minds. All in the works, all in the
works...somewhere warm.

Victoria





Need a good, cheap, knowledge expanding present for yourself or a friend?
http://www.animaux.net/stern/present.html

On Mon, 08 Nov 2004 17:53:24 GMT, "Doug Kanter"

You just won four dozen virtual beers or donuts - your choice.

Last year, my 15 year old son forced me to take him from NY to PA for
fireworks. He had a friend with him. When we saw the "welcome to
Pennsyvania" sign, the friend expressed surprise that we didn't need to stop
at customs. Oh boy.

It's worse than you think.

Sounds like a pretty stupid kid, and another good case against today's
educational system.

Swyck

On Sun, 07 Nov 2004 11:56:35 -0800,
(paghat) wrote:
snip

Those of us who can see the obvious worry about all of America, not just
the ones who attend churches of bigotry. But they all too often just glory
in "ha ha! You don't have a president, we do!" Because Bush's #1 "moral"
agenda is to keep America divided, since a divided nation is one that
can't do anything about it as Bush Brother monitors even what we check out
of the library & whittles away at everyone's civil rights so that he can
continue to turn the nation over to multinational corporations who are
already making both domestic & international policy. The right may have
voted for him so he'll change the Constitution and make sure queers never
have equal rights, but even supposing he succeeds at that, to be able to
SMUGLY die of a treatable disease because you're po' white trash seems
small recompense.

-paghat the ratgirl

Sorry, paghat but you're wrong here. I generally have a lot of
respect for your opinions, but you don't really know a lot about Bush
supporters if you say these things. There are a lot of delusions
going around these days, but the fear of a right wing theocratic
fascist nation is one of the less credible ones going around.

But since I'm a Bush supporter I must either be outright evil, or
simply incredibly stupid and incapable of forming a rational opinion
on my own. It's too bad that issues can't be discussed these days
without fear, hate, and scorn but I've noticed that it seems to be OK
to be intolerant as long as you're "right". Its a shame since there
are a lot of problems in the world today and it will be difficult to
solve many of them using a line in the sand mentality.

Swyck

In article ,
says...
It's too bad that issues can't be discussed these days
without fear, hate, and scorn but I've noticed that it seems to be OK
to be intolerant as long as you're "right".

The problem is that nobody is as "right" as a religious conservative.
After all, God has told him/her what to do.

There was a letter to the editor in our paper this morning saying that
the reason France/Germany/etc. didn't understand us was that
Christianity was "almost dead" in those countries.

While that's a bit of an exaggeration, it is true that the US is the
most religious of the industrialized nations. We're not quite to the
Ayatollah stage yet, but we're leaning that way.

It's hard to rationally "discuss" issues with fanatics :-).

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

Larry Blanchard expounded:

The problem is that nobody is as "right" as a religious conservative.
After all, God has told him/her what to do.

The problem is not all Bush supporters are religious
conservatives/fanatics. It's a myth that everyone who voted for Bush
is a bible thumping christian.

I've seen more fanaticism on the left lately. The inability to
realize that people from all walks of life voted in Bush is blinding
many liberals. It's not just the redneck farmer from Kentucky, it's
not just the religious right, it's not just the idiots, blah blah
blah. People voted him in. People can vote him out. Especially if
those people who want him out fronted a worthy opponent. The
Democrats should have picked a better candidate. Or someone should
have. Hopefully in four years someone worthy of all of our votes will
run for office.
--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

Ann wrote:

It's not just the redneck farmer from Kentucky, it's
not just the religious right, it's not just the idiots, blah blah
blah.

You are right, it is the also the very wealthy who have partnered with the
very ignorant to vote him in for a second term. That is a pretty awesome
partnership and one that I don't think will be broken. The very wealthy
are too greedy to vote against their "Family Values" and the very ignorant
will never get any wiser.

In article , wrote:

Ann wrote:

It's not just the redneck farmer from Kentucky, it's
not just the religious right, it's not just the idiots, blah blah
blah.

You are right, it is the also the very wealthy who have partnered with the
very ignorant to vote him in for a second term. That is a pretty awesome
partnership and one that I don't think will be broken. The very wealthy
are too greedy to vote against their "Family Values" and the very ignorant
will never get any wiser.

The real problem with Ann's observation is she believes someone from
Kentucky has to be a redneck farmer. She has expressed strange beliefs
about all liberals collectively just as she has about all Kentuckians. I'm
not surprised that a brain filled with hateful stereotypes but not very
aware of the actual complexity of people would also be dumb enough to
think it's a really good idea to vote for & praise someone who has
promised to change the Constitution to limit gays' civil rights, wants to
end women's right to choose, wants to "privatize" social security so that
when it goes bankrupt at least his Enron-type buddies will profit, wages
war to kill thousands upon thousands of people over pretend weopons of
mass destruction but for very real oil company profits, who as a governor
of Texas made "funny" jokes about executing a woman and a retarded man,
who has been selling off the national forest to the deforestation
industry, who through political corruption has undermined, dismantled, or
weakened most of our environmental protection laws to pay back his biggest
campaign donors, who weekly uses Orwellian language to say one thing & do
the opposite, who made Marianne Horinko head of the air division of EPA
not caring that Horinko's previous job was instructing industrial
polluters how to avoid the Superfund & even hired EPA's second in command
from Monsanto & put ex-CEOs of major polluters in positions of
sub-secretariats in charge of the departments of Energy, Agriculture, &
Interior, who bankrupted the Superfund which was formerly financed by a
small tax on the chemical and oil industry which Bush repealed, who has
set new precedence of not honoring the Geneva Conference on treatment of
prisoners of war, directly resulting in violations of the Vienna
Convention on on Consular Relations and the Convention against Torture,
who has subverted the Constitution in order to reinstate the infamous
"Cointelpro" program permitting domestic spying on any and all citizens of
the United States without requiring a reason, who has convinced gullible
plebians that judges who have high regard for the Constitution are
horrible so-called "activist judges" who must be replaced by judges with
no regard for the Constitution, who has continuously violated the
Nuremburg Charter, who evaded military service to his own country but
didn't think twice before resorting to hired thugs to run smear-campaigns
against at least two decorated veterans, who with 48 hours of the Twin
Towers falling was already assisting family members of Osama bin Laden who
did not want to be interviewed by the FBI and so never were but were
hustled out of the United States with special permission from the White
House, who tried to appoint an extremist anti-gay activist who called AIDS
a punishment for the sin of homosexuality to the AIDS Advisory Panel,
appointed Gerald Owens a leading opponent of Civil Rights legislation to a
Department of Education watchdog post to make sure no civil rights were
watchdogged then jestingly pointed out that it was okay to do away with
civil rights since Owens was black, terminated the White House Office for
Women's Initiatives & OUtreach, shut down regional Women's Bureau offices,
and for good measure saw to it that women athletes could qualify for fewer
education grants, has presided over the deterioration of working class
incomes while the richest 2% become far richer -- & that's just the tip of
the iceberg for a man who in only four years has proven himself the most
harmful president of the past century.

By the way, here's a copy of George W. Bush's DWI arrest record:
http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/bushdui1.html
Sure, it was the 1970s, but the man was drunk for a couple of decades &
couldn't possibly have many brain cells left undamaged. Being an alchy
does explain why Laura likes the dumb *******, since she KILLED one of her
boyfriends as a drunk driver & only too bad she wasn't dating Bushy so it
could've been him.

Here's the philosophical query: If you could go back in time & kill an
evil president before he committed any harmful acts & thereby you had
saved the planet, would it have been itself an evil act to have killed
such a creature while he was still young & comparatively innocent of any
crimes?

Impeach Bush!

-paghat the ratgirl

--
"Of what are you afraid, my child?" inquired the kindly teacher.
"Oh, sir! The flowers, they are wild," replied the timid creature.
-from Peter Newell's "Wild Flowers"
Visit the Garden of Paghat the Ratgirl: http://www.paghat.com

"Paul E. Lehmann" expounded:

You are right, it is the also the very wealthy who have partnered with the
very ignorant to vote him in for a second term.

And what I find extremely amusing is that it's perfectly ok to talk in
metaphores and stereotypes about anyone on the right, but boy oh boy
you'd better not try to stereotype a liberal. Paghat, take it
away.......
--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

In article ,
says...
Larry Blanchard expounded:

The problem is that nobody is as "right" as a religious conservative.
After all, God has told him/her what to do.

The problem is not all Bush supporters are religious
conservatives/fanatics. It's a myth that everyone who voted for Bush
is a bible thumping christian.

You're right. It's just that they voted more for Bush than just about
any other group - with the possible exception of millionaires :-).

I get the feeling that most people vote a party ticket with no concern
for whoever is on it. It's a shame because neither party is what it
used to be. Anybody else remember the old saying "Democrats give us a
war, Republicans give us a depression."?

--
Homo sapiens is a goal, not a description

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
...
In article ,
says...
Larry Blanchard expounded:

The problem is that nobody is as "right" as a religious conservative.
After all, God has told him/her what to do.

The problem is not all Bush supporters are religious
conservatives/fanatics. It's a myth that everyone who voted for Bush
is a bible thumping christian.

You're right. It's just that they voted more for Bush than just about
any other group - with the possible exception of millionaires :-).

I get the feeling that most people vote a party ticket with no concern
for whoever is on it. It's a shame because neither party is what it
used to be. Anybody else remember the old saying "Democrats give us a
war, Republicans give us a depression."?

It's true. We had to choose the lesser of two blahs. While at the
Philadelphia airport last week, I spotted a magazine cover - might've been
The Economist. It had a picture of both candidates and the caption
"Incoherent or Incompetent?"

The weekend after the election, I was out with a bunch of friends. We (both
Dems and Repubs) were bemoaning the disaster. One guy went to the bar and
came back with 3 pencils and some clean napkins. He said "OK...if your party
said 'Send us $1000.00 and we'll guarantee the candidate of your choice is
nominated next time around' - write that person's name on your napkins".

There were 10 of us. Results:

1 vote for Bush (but the guy who wrote it was intensely drunk)
1 vote for Kerry (but the guy who chose him has no imagination)
1 vote for Reagan's son - what's his name.
1 vote for Rudolph Giuliani. Good choice.
5 votes for Mario Cuomo (Keep in mind, we're all from NY, so we don't mind
people who are brutally honest, use big words, and who don't talk down to
audiences).

Two of Mario's 5 votes came from Republicans. This country is longing for
something different. I doubt it'll ever get it.

Larry Blanchard expounded:

I get the feeling that most people vote a party ticket with no concern
for whoever is on it. It's a shame because neither party is what it
used to be. Anybody else remember the old saying "Democrats give us a
war, Republicans give us a depression."?

Yep. As I've said many times, no one worth voting for ran this time.
Hopefully in four years we'll have a better selection.

--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
********************************

http://www.****thesouth.com/
kinda hard to get around the language, but..... interesting.

Larry Blanchard wrote:

In article ,
says...
It's too bad that issues can't be discussed these days
without fear, hate, and scorn but I've noticed that it seems to be OK
to be intolerant as long as you're "right".

The problem is that nobody is as "right" as a religious conservative.
After all, God has told him/her what to do.

There was a letter to the editor in our paper this morning saying that
the reason France/Germany/etc. didn't understand us was that
Christianity was "almost dead" in those countries.

While that's a bit of an exaggeration, it is true that the US is the
most religious of the industrialized nations. We're not quite to the
Ayatollah stage yet, but we're leaning that way.

It's hard to rationally "discuss" issues with fanatics :-).



~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
List Manager: Puregold Goldfish List
http://puregold.aquaria.net/
www.drsolo.com
Solve the problem, dont waste energy finding who's to blame
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Unfortunately, I receive no money, gifts, discounts or other
compensation for all the damn work I do, nor for any of the
endorsements or recommendations I make.